Thank God for our RIGHT to keep and bear arms

[Crixus]

It isn't a coincidence we have the most guns and the most mass killings, cop killings, school shootings, accidental shootings, cops killing the most people, toddler shootings... It is frankly quite silly to think it is a coincidence. These are things that are rare with strong gun control.

Yeah...thank God for “strong gun control”. It saved all of those children in China from unimaginable horrors. Oh wait...that’s right...

View attachment 164849

Wanna see something worse? Since brain likes Germany so much maybe he knows about The cologne school massacre? Not likely. And he wouldn’t sai if he did .

 

[P@triot]

It isn't a coincidence we have the most guns and the most mass killings, cop killings, school shootings, accidental shootings, cops killing the most people, toddler shootings... It is frankly quite silly to think it is a coincidence. These are things that are rare with strong gun control.

Yeah...thank goodness for that “strong gun control” in China. It spared so many children. I mean - just think - they could have been shot. But thanks to the same “strong gun control” that you advocate for, those children only had to endure being bludgeoned to death by claw hammers or stabbed over and over and over until they passed out from blood loss and agony.

School attacks in China (2010–12) A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 25 dead and some 115 injured.

If only they were here, I’m sure they would thank you Brain(less).

School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia

 

[2aguy]

Yeah...nice photo...but of course, it doesn't tell the actual truth...

The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries

Why Turkey and Chile and Bulgaria? Well, those countries are OECD members, and many who use the "developed country" moniker often use the OECD members countries as a de facto list of the "true" developed countries. Of course, membership in the OECD is highly political and hardly based on any objective economic or cultural criteria.

But if you're familiar with the OECD, you'll immediately notice a problem with the list Fisher uses. Mexico is an OECD country. So why is Mexico not in this graph? Well, it's pretty apparent that Mexico was left off the list because to do so would interfere with the point Fisher is trying to make. After all, Mexico — in spite of much more restrictive gun laws — has a murder rate many times larger than the US.
----
More Realistic Comparisons Involve a Broader View of the World

Why not use the UN’s human development index instead? That would seem to make at least as much sense if we’re devoted to looking at “developed countries.”

So, let’s do that. Here we see that the OECD’s list contains Turkey, Bulgaria, Mexico, and Chile. So, if we're honest with ourselves, that must mean that other countries with similar human development rankings are also suitable for comparisons to the US.

Well, Turkey and Mexico have HDI numbers at .75. So, let’s include other countries with HDI numbers either similar or higher. That means we should include The Bahamas, Argentina, Costa Rica, Cuba, Panama, Uruguay, Venezuela, Russia, Lithuania, Belarus, Estonia, and Latvia.

You can see where this is going. If we include countries that have HDI numbers similar to — or at least as high as — OECD members Turkey and Mexico, we find that the picture for the United States murder rate looks very different (correctly using murder rates and not gun-deaths rates):

Wow, that US sure has a pretty low murder rate compared to all those countries that are comparable to some OECD members. In fact, Russia, Costa Rica and Lithuania have all been invited to begin the process of joining the OECD (Russia is on hold for obvious political reasons). But all those countries have higher murder rates than the US. (I wonder what excuse Fisher will manufacture for leaving off those countries after they join the OECD.)

Things get even more interesting if we add American states with low murder rates.

And why not include data from individual states? It has always been extremely imprecise and lazy to talk about the “US murder rate” The US is an immense country with a lot of variety in laws and demographics. (Mexico deserves the same analysis, by the way.) Many states have murder rates that place them on the short list of low-crime places in the world. Why do we conveniently ignore them? The US murder rate is being driven up by a few high-murder states such as Maryland, Louisiana, South Carolina, Delaware, and Tennessee. In the spirit of selective use of data, let's just leave those states out of it, and look at some of the low-crime ones:

 

[Crixus]

It isn't a coincidence we have the most guns and the most mass killings, cop killings, school shootings, accidental shootings, cops killing the most people, toddler shootings... It is frankly quite silly to think it is a coincidence. These are things that are rare with strong gun control.

Yeah...thank goodness for that “strong gun control” in China. It spared so many children. I mean - just think - they could have been shot. But thanks to the same “strong gun control” that you advocate for, those children only had to endure being bludgeoned to death by claw hammers or stabbed over and over and over until they passed out from blood loss and agony.

School attacks in China (2010–12) A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 25 dead and some 115 injured.

If only they were here, I’m sure they would thank you Brain(less).

School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia

Maybe these kids to,


Cologne school massacre - Wikipedia



That dude made his flame thrower and weapons in his garage.

 

[2aguy]

You obviously get off on it. Your them has trended to children. That supposed to make you more right? More kids are killed by cell phones and cars. Keep flailing mother Teresa.

There is a cure for these deaths. They are very rare with strong gun control. We could save lives, you just choose not to.

Nope. Not really. To many facts say different.

Fact is these problems are very rare with strong gun control. You choose to believe lies.

Really? No haji **** has raped any of my kids. Burgler types don’t hit this area to much. Is it because of the police? Sure, but it’s mostly because folks here, even the poor ones like me are known to be armed. Your beloved Michael Brown types know this is a good area to get shot stealing shit so they stick to their own kind as they are typically NOT armed.

All you have done is give criminals a good reason to be armed. You insure more death. We have the most concealed carry every now and look what happened:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

And you again lie by not telling the actual truth.....here is the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

 

[2aguy]

Caused by too many guns. Police rarely shoot people when there is strong gun control.

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

Caused by too many guns. Police rarely shoot people when there is strong gun control.

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

I was going to rant and rave about how wrong you are ---- but I decided not to.

Instead, I will only say that you are trying to back into a plausible justification for an untenable position where none exists. Your connectivity of the prevalence of guns to the frequency of mass shootings can't be justified. Yes, there are more guns - yes, there are more mass shootings --- but the number of guns does not increase the number of mass shootings. There is no causal factor proven. There is a correlation, yes - but not a cause. If that were so, eliminating X guns would mean there will be a Y decrease in mass shootings.

There are more people --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of people in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more cars -- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of cars in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more apartments --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing we should limit the number of apartments in order to prevent more mass shootings??

Mass shootings are NOT a result of guns - "guns" is merely the methodology. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a societal decrease in concern for others. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a perception of a lack of ultimate reckoning for their actions. Mass shootings ARE - and I know this will make you uncomfortable - a direct result of a transition of our society from a Christian morality to a secular morality. As our concern for our fellow man has withered, we are more willing to self-justify harm to our fellow man as a viable solution to our confrontations. As man has increasingly come to believe that he is the ultimate authority - which has to be the epitome of arrogance - we have increased our capacity to rationalize our extreme actions.

It is nonsensical to believe that strict gun control will have a positive effect. The proof of the fallacy of this simplistic misinterpretation of the reality is no further than Chicago of Washington DC. Draconian gun control laws have had no effect on the murder rates in these cities - in fact, they can be considered as direct contributors to the death rate.

Guns are NOT the problem - the person pulling the trigger is the problem. As long as you allow yourself to be distracted from addressing the root of the problem, the longer, and the larger, the problem will become. Mass shootings is the symptom - not the disease. You don' kill a tree by cutting off the limbs.

It isn't a coincidence we have the most guns and the most mass killings, cop killings, school shootings, accidental shootings, cops killing the most people, toddler shootings... It is frankly quite silly to think it is a coincidence. These are things that are rare with strong gun control.

I did not speak of coincidence .... I spoke of correlation and causation. Quit trying to change the discussion to fit your preconceived mission.

Here is your task ..... there is an increase in guns, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Then ... there is an increase in people, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Somehow, you seem to believe that just the sight of a gun causes people to go crazy and kill hundreds. Somehow, you seem to believe that, if the gun weren't there - in all its malevolent glory - the person would not harbor ill will and act on it.

Quit fooling yourself ---- address the cause.

What he won't admit? We have had semi auto rifles since World War 2.......and few mass shootings till recently....what changed? The left wing welfare state has attacked the American family.....

 

[MikeK]

Well that’s not a very good guess. They would have written “standard weaponry of today” or “muskets”. They specifically said arms for a reason. The government answers to the people. If the subordinate can have a weapon, the superior sure as hell can.

Do you truly believe that if the authors of the Second Amendment were able to foresee the existence of WMD they would enable each and every ordinary citizen to keep and bear such devices? There were crazies and hot-heads back then, too. So project yourself into the role of one who is re-writing the Second Amendment: Would you allow for anyone and everyone to keep and bear RPGs? Hand grenades? Claymore mines? .50 machine guns? How about suitcase nukes? They all are "arms." I am just as pro-Second Amendment as you or anyone else -- but I draw the line. While I would like to own a Thompson (for purely aesthetic reasons) I would not care to have them as readily available as are pump shotguns. Too many screwballs walking among us.

No. I maintain my standard weaponry of today theory. Because I believe that is what was in the pre-conscious thinking of those Founders. They were presuming muskets, flintlock pistols, swords and daggers, which are the reasonably expanded equivalent of today's semi-auto shoulder and hand guns.

I know I could get a Thompson if I were willing to go through the bureaucratic licensing ordeal, which I am not. So I am content with that.

 

[MikeK]

None of those things are true in many of the most safe civilized countries. Not really clear which ones you reference actually.

Philippines. Mexico. El Salvador. Haiti (where the cops will shove a broomstick up your ass if you disrespect them). And there are still more.

 

[Spare_change]

A father eating at a Popeye’s restaurant -- and carrying his licensed handgun -- shot a would-be robber dead Wednesday after the thief threatened the man's family at gunpoint and demanded the dad's belongings.

The San Antonio Police Department said Ander Herrera, 19, walked into the restaurant on South Flores Street just after 9 p.m. Wednesday and demanded Carlos Molina hand over his cash.

Molina, 32, said he had no money because he had just bought his family a meal. The gunman then turned toward the counter and started yelling at a manager who was trying to take cover, FOX29 reported.

Authorities said two more members of Molina’s family came out of a restroom amid the commotion and the suspect pointed his gun at them.

Molina then whipped out his gun and shot Herrera several times, killing him.

It wasn't clear if any charges would be filed in connection with the incident, but officers said they believe Molina fired at Herrera in defense of a third person, FOX29 reported.

 

[Brain357]

We want less guns, not more.

Who is this “we” stuff? The U.S. has spoken. We want more guns. Only the fascists such as yourself want less.

Nothing fascist about wanting fewer dead cops and lower crime rates. Why do you want so many armed criminals?

Then you want more good Americans carrying guns....as more good Americans carry guns, our crime rates go down...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

With the most guns in the world and the highest incarceration rate we still have much higher crime rates than other civilized countries with gun control. We also have many unique problems to our country like mass shootings, school shootings, over 50 police shot and killed each year, our police shoot many, many people, toddlers shoot people, road rage shootings, women shot by significant others.... Too many guns.
Why the US has the most mass shootings - CNN
US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015
Analysis | American toddlers are still shooting people on a weekly basis this year
Study: Road rage incidents involving guns are increasing

The “boyfriend loophole” in U.S. gun laws is costing women’s lives

More police officers die on the job in states with more guns

Fallen officers: 64 shot dead in the line of duty in 2016 - CNN

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Guns kill nearly 1,300 US children each year - CNN

https://news.stanford.edu/2017/06/21/violent-crime-increases-right-carry-states/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/school-shootings-since-sandy-hook_us_58503d99e4b04c8e2bb232eb

 

[Brain357]

Caused by too many guns. Police rarely shoot people when there is strong gun control.

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

Caused by too many guns. Police rarely shoot people when there is strong gun control.

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

I was going to rant and rave about how wrong you are ---- but I decided not to.

Instead, I will only say that you are trying to back into a plausible justification for an untenable position where none exists. Your connectivity of the prevalence of guns to the frequency of mass shootings can't be justified. Yes, there are more guns - yes, there are more mass shootings --- but the number of guns does not increase the number of mass shootings. There is no causal factor proven. There is a correlation, yes - but not a cause. If that were so, eliminating X guns would mean there will be a Y decrease in mass shootings.

There are more people --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of people in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more cars -- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of cars in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more apartments --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing we should limit the number of apartments in order to prevent more mass shootings??

Mass shootings are NOT a result of guns - "guns" is merely the methodology. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a societal decrease in concern for others. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a perception of a lack of ultimate reckoning for their actions. Mass shootings ARE - and I know this will make you uncomfortable - a direct result of a transition of our society from a Christian morality to a secular morality. As our concern for our fellow man has withered, we are more willing to self-justify harm to our fellow man as a viable solution to our confrontations. As man has increasingly come to believe that he is the ultimate authority - which has to be the epitome of arrogance - we have increased our capacity to rationalize our extreme actions.

It is nonsensical to believe that strict gun control will have a positive effect. The proof of the fallacy of this simplistic misinterpretation of the reality is no further than Chicago of Washington DC. Draconian gun control laws have had no effect on the murder rates in these cities - in fact, they can be considered as direct contributors to the death rate.

Guns are NOT the problem - the person pulling the trigger is the problem. As long as you allow yourself to be distracted from addressing the root of the problem, the longer, and the larger, the problem will become. Mass shootings is the symptom - not the disease. You don' kill a tree by cutting off the limbs.

It isn't a coincidence we have the most guns and the most mass killings, cop killings, school shootings, accidental shootings, cops killing the most people, toddler shootings... It is frankly quite silly to think it is a coincidence. These are things that are rare with strong gun control.

I did not speak of coincidence .... I spoke of correlation and causation. Quit trying to change the discussion to fit your preconceived mission.

Here is your task ..... there is an increase in guns, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Then ... there is an increase in people, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Somehow, you seem to believe that just the sight of a gun causes people to go crazy and kill hundreds. Somehow, you seem to believe that, if the gun weren't there - in all its malevolent glory - the person would not harbor ill will and act on it.

Quit fooling yourself ---- address the cause.

Violent crime is rising right now thanks to guns. We have lots of unrest caused by police shooting lots of people. This is something that doesn't happen in countries with strong gun control. Our police shoot a lot of people because they are themselves often shot. Again this doesn't happen when there is strong gun control. So because we have weak gun control we have all this unrest which is increasing violent crime.

 

[Likkmee]

I live in a country where pretty much everyone has guns but the leading cause of death is motorcycle incidents. Once in a while some scumbag gets shot or one caps someone over a drug deal but basically its a non-issue. OTOH we don't have an over medicated population of mentally ill drug addicted assholes

 

[MikeK]

With the most guns in the world and the highest incarceration rate we still have much higher crime rates than other civilized countries with gun control.

[...]

What category of Americans commit most of these crimes?

 

[Brain357]

With the most guns in the world and the highest incarceration rate we still have much higher crime rates than other civilized countries with gun control.

[...]

What category of Americans commit most of these crimes?

You tell me.

 

[MikeK]

Violent crime is rising right now thanks to guns. We have lots of unrest caused by police shooting lots of people. This is something that doesn't happen in countries with strong gun control. Our police shoot a lot of people because they are themselves often shot. Again this doesn't happen when there is strong gun control. So because we have weak gun control we have all this unrest which is increasing violent crime.

How much of this rising rate of gun crime perpetrated with legally owned guns? If you will take the time to research the FBI statistics you will find the percentage to e relatively small. Most gun crime is effected with illegal guns.

So what do you suggest we do about that? Enact more repressive gun laws -- as we've been doing with the drug laws for half a century with absolute zero effect?

 

[Brain357]

Violent crime is rising right now thanks to guns. We have lots of unrest caused by police shooting lots of people. This is something that doesn't happen in countries with strong gun control. Our police shoot a lot of people because they are themselves often shot. Again this doesn't happen when there is strong gun control. So because we have weak gun control we have all this unrest which is increasing violent crime.

How much of this rising rate of gun crime perpetrated with legally owned guns? If you will take the time to research the FBI statistics you will find the percentage to e relatively small. Most gun crime is effected with illegal guns.

So what do you suggest we do about that? Enact more repressive gun laws -- as we've been doing with the drug laws for half a century with absolute zero effect?

Lots of legal guns, guarantees lots of illegal guns. We need stricter gun control. Where there is strong gun control, there is little gun crime.

Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute

 

[Spare_change]

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

I was going to rant and rave about how wrong you are ---- but I decided not to.

Instead, I will only say that you are trying to back into a plausible justification for an untenable position where none exists. Your connectivity of the prevalence of guns to the frequency of mass shootings can't be justified. Yes, there are more guns - yes, there are more mass shootings --- but the number of guns does not increase the number of mass shootings. There is no causal factor proven. There is a correlation, yes - but not a cause. If that were so, eliminating X guns would mean there will be a Y decrease in mass shootings.

There are more people --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of people in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more cars -- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of cars in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more apartments --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing we should limit the number of apartments in order to prevent more mass shootings??

Mass shootings are NOT a result of guns - "guns" is merely the methodology. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a societal decrease in concern for others. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a perception of a lack of ultimate reckoning for their actions. Mass shootings ARE - and I know this will make you uncomfortable - a direct result of a transition of our society from a Christian morality to a secular morality. As our concern for our fellow man has withered, we are more willing to self-justify harm to our fellow man as a viable solution to our confrontations. As man has increasingly come to believe that he is the ultimate authority - which has to be the epitome of arrogance - we have increased our capacity to rationalize our extreme actions.

It is nonsensical to believe that strict gun control will have a positive effect. The proof of the fallacy of this simplistic misinterpretation of the reality is no further than Chicago of Washington DC. Draconian gun control laws have had no effect on the murder rates in these cities - in fact, they can be considered as direct contributors to the death rate.

Guns are NOT the problem - the person pulling the trigger is the problem. As long as you allow yourself to be distracted from addressing the root of the problem, the longer, and the larger, the problem will become. Mass shootings is the symptom - not the disease. You don' kill a tree by cutting off the limbs.

It isn't a coincidence we have the most guns and the most mass killings, cop killings, school shootings, accidental shootings, cops killing the most people, toddler shootings... It is frankly quite silly to think it is a coincidence. These are things that are rare with strong gun control.

I did not speak of coincidence .... I spoke of correlation and causation. Quit trying to change the discussion to fit your preconceived mission.

Here is your task ..... there is an increase in guns, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Then ... there is an increase in people, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Somehow, you seem to believe that just the sight of a gun causes people to go crazy and kill hundreds. Somehow, you seem to believe that, if the gun weren't there - in all its malevolent glory - the person would not harbor ill will and act on it.

Quit fooling yourself ---- address the cause.

Violent crime is rising right now thanks to guns. We have lots of unrest caused by police shooting lots of people. This is something that doesn't happen in countries with strong gun control. Our police shoot a lot of people because they are themselves often shot. Again this doesn't happen when there is strong gun control. So because we have weak gun control we have all this unrest which is increasing violent crime.

Hmmm .... I guess the Reality Bus doesn't visit your neighborhood, huh?

 

[Spare_change]

Violent crime is rising right now thanks to guns. We have lots of unrest caused by police shooting lots of people. This is something that doesn't happen in countries with strong gun control. Our police shoot a lot of people because they are themselves often shot. Again this doesn't happen when there is strong gun control. So because we have weak gun control we have all this unrest which is increasing violent crime.

How much of this rising rate of gun crime perpetrated with legally owned guns? If you will take the time to research the FBI statistics you will find the percentage to e relatively small. Most gun crime is effected with illegal guns.

So what do you suggest we do about that? Enact more repressive gun laws -- as we've been doing with the drug laws for half a century with absolute zero effect?

Lots of legal guns, guarantees lots of illegal guns. We need stricter gun control. Where there is strong gun control, there is little gun crime.

Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute

Flawed logic, at best - ignorance, in all probability - and, sheer insanity, at worst.

 

[2aguy]

We want less guns, not more.

Who is this “we” stuff? The U.S. has spoken. We want more guns. Only the fascists such as yourself want less.

Nothing fascist about wanting fewer dead cops and lower crime rates. Why do you want so many armed criminals?

Then you want more good Americans carrying guns....as more good Americans carry guns, our crime rates go down...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

With the most guns in the world and the highest incarceration rate we still have much higher crime rates than other civilized countries with gun control. We also have many unique problems to our country like mass shootings, school shootings, over 50 police shot and killed each year, our police shoot many, many people, toddlers shoot people, road rage shootings, women shot by significant others.... Too many guns.
Why the US has the most mass shootings - CNN
US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015
Analysis | American toddlers are still shooting people on a weekly basis this year
Study: Road rage incidents involving guns are increasing

The “boyfriend loophole” in U.S. gun laws is costing women’s lives

More police officers die on the job in states with more guns

Fallen officers: 64 shot dead in the line of duty in 2016 - CNN

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Guns kill nearly 1,300 US children each year - CNN

Violent crime increases in right-to-carry states | Stanford News

There Have Been Over 200 School Shooting Incidents Since The Sandy Hook Massacre | HuffPost

Your links are garbage......the 1,300 kids.....you were already shown that almost all of those homes were criminals or the homes of addicts and alcoholics.....and the violent crime increase is because of the Ferguson effect, people like you attacking the police.....and the police officer deaths in states with guns....was shown to be crap too....

anti gunners like you can't make their case without lying.........

 

[2aguy]

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

Most mass shootings happen at night - we should outlaw darkness! What will it cost to light the world?

Makes just as much sense as what you're saying ....

You are conflating one fact with another - and PRESUMING there is a connection.

Mass shootings happen often when there are lots of guns. They are rare when there is strong gun control.

I was going to rant and rave about how wrong you are ---- but I decided not to.

Instead, I will only say that you are trying to back into a plausible justification for an untenable position where none exists. Your connectivity of the prevalence of guns to the frequency of mass shootings can't be justified. Yes, there are more guns - yes, there are more mass shootings --- but the number of guns does not increase the number of mass shootings. There is no causal factor proven. There is a correlation, yes - but not a cause. If that were so, eliminating X guns would mean there will be a Y decrease in mass shootings.

There are more people --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of people in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more cars -- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing that we should limit the number of cars in order to prevent more mass shootings? There are more apartments --- there are more mass shootings. Are you proposing we should limit the number of apartments in order to prevent more mass shootings??

Mass shootings are NOT a result of guns - "guns" is merely the methodology. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a societal decrease in concern for others. Mass shootings ARE a direct result of a perception of a lack of ultimate reckoning for their actions. Mass shootings ARE - and I know this will make you uncomfortable - a direct result of a transition of our society from a Christian morality to a secular morality. As our concern for our fellow man has withered, we are more willing to self-justify harm to our fellow man as a viable solution to our confrontations. As man has increasingly come to believe that he is the ultimate authority - which has to be the epitome of arrogance - we have increased our capacity to rationalize our extreme actions.

It is nonsensical to believe that strict gun control will have a positive effect. The proof of the fallacy of this simplistic misinterpretation of the reality is no further than Chicago of Washington DC. Draconian gun control laws have had no effect on the murder rates in these cities - in fact, they can be considered as direct contributors to the death rate.

Guns are NOT the problem - the person pulling the trigger is the problem. As long as you allow yourself to be distracted from addressing the root of the problem, the longer, and the larger, the problem will become. Mass shootings is the symptom - not the disease. You don' kill a tree by cutting off the limbs.

It isn't a coincidence we have the most guns and the most mass killings, cop killings, school shootings, accidental shootings, cops killing the most people, toddler shootings... It is frankly quite silly to think it is a coincidence. These are things that are rare with strong gun control.

I did not speak of coincidence .... I spoke of correlation and causation. Quit trying to change the discussion to fit your preconceived mission.

Here is your task ..... there is an increase in guns, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Then ... there is an increase in people, and an increase in mass shootings. Explain the causation.

Somehow, you seem to believe that just the sight of a gun causes people to go crazy and kill hundreds. Somehow, you seem to believe that, if the gun weren't there - in all its malevolent glory - the person would not harbor ill will and act on it.

Quit fooling yourself ---- address the cause.

Violent crime is rising right now thanks to guns. We have lots of unrest caused by police shooting lots of people. This is something that doesn't happen in countries with strong gun control. Our police shoot a lot of people because they are themselves often shot. Again this doesn't happen when there is strong gun control. So because we have weak gun control we have all this unrest which is increasing violent crime.

No....we had crime increasing during the end of obama because of the Ferguson effect....created by obama and his left wing black lives matter supporters and their other assholes in the ACLU attacking the police.....getting them to stand down....

Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.