Texas bar owner organizes 'Bar Lives Matter' concert in protest of governor's orders.

[martybegan]

You probably don't have what you like to do being impacted, you probably have other people around you at home.

I don't. A lot of my enjoyment and stress relief comes from going out to things like bars, travelling and going to bars, and just being out and about.

And if you really cared about what happens to older people you would be bitching about what Cuomo did by not suspending the "take them back" rule for nursing homes.

I'm sorry, I did not know you were single... I'd likely be going bonkers if I were younger and single, going through these lockdown too!

It's time to rethink everything Marty, in order to make it work, during virus periods.... it's my understanding we are heading in to an age of a whole bunch of new viruses and increased deadly pandemics....

We can limit our liabilities, if we would just prepare for them...

And not just at the gvt level.... but corporations, and small businesses, and hospital networks, and schooling etc etc etc...

How do we keep the economic engines running, through these periods?

A set of rules for normal periods, and a set for pandemics, that we all know ahead of time... like switching the switch to home schooling over the net, or small businesses being ready with an online presence to sell their goods, and the local mechanic' s shop kept open by the mechanics wearing masks.... everyone needs to create their own plans....

And this needs to start now... these rolling spikes are here to stay...we need to get moving on these things...

Can bars move to more outdoor settings? Would a good Heppa filter system or air exchange system in the bar make it safer?

Instant testing?

Can a mask be created that has a flap opening to fit a straw, for your drink? I dunno? I just know that we can do this... have a decent economy and keep people safer, if we put our minds to it!!!

And socializing could be rethought, maybe it's getting with friends to drink... only spread out on the front stoop or front yard, with separation, and everyone bringing a small cooler and their own booze.... that's what they do up here in some towns... neighbors meet every night for cocktails at 7pm, pull out their lawn chairs and coolers and toast their neighbors across the way.... just to say hi, during the lockdown.

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Cuomo followed CDC guidelines on nursing home residents being returned. So did other states.

The percentage killed in nursing homes is no greater in his state, than any others.

You're barking up the wrong tree on that...

The biggest problem I see is if this thing turns out of have a sub 1% mortality rate limited to mostly the old and sick, and it turns out we are over-reacting if something comes along with an actual 10% mortality rate, i.e. a truly decimating (in the literal, classical sense) pandemic will be played down by people as crying wolf.

And as for defending Cuomo, do you actually know the reason why in normal circumstances nursing homes are required to take patients back from hospitals?

 

[Montrovant]

The biggest problem I see is if this thing turns out of have a sub 1% mortality rate limited to mostly the old and sick, and it turns out we are over-reacting if something comes along with an actual 10% mortality rate, i.e. a truly decimating (in the literal, classical sense) pandemic will be played down by people as crying wolf.

And as for defending Cuomo, do you actually know the reason why in normal circumstances nursing homes are required to take patients back from hospitals?

Part of the problem is that people seem to think that death is the only truly negative consequence of getting COVID-19. It's as if the short-term issues and potential long-term issues are unimportant as long as people survive. Lost work/wages, hospital stays, neurological issues, lung damage, none of that matters if the death rate is at some sort of acceptable level.

 

[martybegan]

The biggest problem I see is if this thing turns out of have a sub 1% mortality rate limited to mostly the old and sick, and it turns out we are over-reacting if something comes along with an actual 10% mortality rate, i.e. a truly decimating (in the literal, classical sense) pandemic will be played down by people as crying wolf.

And as for defending Cuomo, do you actually know the reason why in normal circumstances nursing homes are required to take patients back from hospitals?

Part of the problem is that people seem to think that death is the only truly negative consequence of getting COVID-19. It's as if the short-term issues and potential long-term issues are unimportant as long as people survive. Lost work/wages, hospital stays, neurological issues, lung damage, none of that matters if the death rate is at some sort of acceptable level.

there are short and long term issues with regards to the containment procedures. Its as if people think they exist in a vacuum.

 

[Montrovant]

The biggest problem I see is if this thing turns out of have a sub 1% mortality rate limited to mostly the old and sick, and it turns out we are over-reacting if something comes along with an actual 10% mortality rate, i.e. a truly decimating (in the literal, classical sense) pandemic will be played down by people as crying wolf.

And as for defending Cuomo, do you actually know the reason why in normal circumstances nursing homes are required to take patients back from hospitals?

Part of the problem is that people seem to think that death is the only truly negative consequence of getting COVID-19. It's as if the short-term issues and potential long-term issues are unimportant as long as people survive. Lost work/wages, hospital stays, neurological issues, lung damage, none of that matters if the death rate is at some sort of acceptable level.

there are short and long term issues with regards to the containment procedures. Its as if people think they exist in a vacuum.

Of course there are. I'm not saying all the responses have been good. I'm just saying that if death rate is the only metric one looks at regarding the virus, it gives a false impression. There have been comments all over this site which imply, or directly state, that if the death rate for COVID-19 is similar to the death rate of the flu, that basically nothing should be done in response.

 

[martybegan]

The biggest problem I see is if this thing turns out of have a sub 1% mortality rate limited to mostly the old and sick, and it turns out we are over-reacting if something comes along with an actual 10% mortality rate, i.e. a truly decimating (in the literal, classical sense) pandemic will be played down by people as crying wolf.

And as for defending Cuomo, do you actually know the reason why in normal circumstances nursing homes are required to take patients back from hospitals?

Part of the problem is that people seem to think that death is the only truly negative consequence of getting COVID-19. It's as if the short-term issues and potential long-term issues are unimportant as long as people survive. Lost work/wages, hospital stays, neurological issues, lung damage, none of that matters if the death rate is at some sort of acceptable level.

there are short and long term issues with regards to the containment procedures. Its as if people think they exist in a vacuum.

Of course there are. I'm not saying all the responses have been good. I'm just saying that if death rate is the only metric one looks at regarding the virus, it gives a false impression. There have been comments all over this site which imply, or directly state, that if the death rate for COVID-19 is similar to the death rate of the flu, that basically nothing should be done in response.

No one of any worth is saying "do nothing", what some are saying is continuing treating it like a 3%-4% mortality bug is overreacting.

 

[Montrovant]

No one of any worth is saying "do nothing", what some are saying is continuing treating it like a 3%-4% mortality bug is overreacting.

Perhaps, but again, mortality isn't the only issue with COVID-19.

 

[martybegan]

No one of any worth is saying "do nothing", what some are saying is continuing treating it like a 3%-4% mortality bug is overreacting.

Perhaps, but again, mortality isn't the only issue with COVID-19.

It's the issue people in charge have used to justify the levels of quarantine we are seeing, and accepting.

 

[Montrovant]

No one of any worth is saying "do nothing", what some are saying is continuing treating it like a 3%-4% mortality bug is overreacting.

Perhaps, but again, mortality isn't the only issue with COVID-19.

It's the issue people in charge have used to justify the levels of quarantine we are seeing, and accepting.

I'm pretty sure I've seen/heard more than just deaths talked about by various government officials when discussing the virus.

Regardless, I'm not trying to justify all of the various tactics that have been used. Wearing masks, however, is not something that will cause any sort of significant problem for the economy. It isn't going to put a bunch of people on furlough, or cause millions to lose their jobs. It's something that nearly everyone can do safely, that costs very little (or nothing directly in places where masks are given away), that is only a minor inconvenience. I would much rather people wore masks and did their best to distance where reasonable, rather than have more stay-at-home and quarantine orders.

 

[martybegan]

No one of any worth is saying "do nothing", what some are saying is continuing treating it like a 3%-4% mortality bug is overreacting.

Perhaps, but again, mortality isn't the only issue with COVID-19.

It's the issue people in charge have used to justify the levels of quarantine we are seeing, and accepting.

I'm pretty sure I've seen/heard more than just deaths talked about by various government officials when discussing the virus.

Regardless, I'm not trying to justify all of the various tactics that have been used. Wearing masks, however, is not something that will cause any sort of significant problem for the economy. It isn't going to put a bunch of people on furlough, or cause millions to lose their jobs. It's something that nearly everyone can do safely, that costs very little (or nothing directly in places where masks are given away), that is only a minor inconvenience. I would much rather people wore masks and did their best to distance where reasonable, rather than have more stay-at-home and quarantine orders.

But honestly unless you are wearing a fit tested mask that is less than a few days old, all it does is slightly reduce transmission possibility.

It's a panacea in most cases.

 

[Montrovant]

No one of any worth is saying "do nothing", what some are saying is continuing treating it like a 3%-4% mortality bug is overreacting.

Perhaps, but again, mortality isn't the only issue with COVID-19.

It's the issue people in charge have used to justify the levels of quarantine we are seeing, and accepting.

I'm pretty sure I've seen/heard more than just deaths talked about by various government officials when discussing the virus.

Regardless, I'm not trying to justify all of the various tactics that have been used. Wearing masks, however, is not something that will cause any sort of significant problem for the economy. It isn't going to put a bunch of people on furlough, or cause millions to lose their jobs. It's something that nearly everyone can do safely, that costs very little (or nothing directly in places where masks are given away), that is only a minor inconvenience. I would much rather people wore masks and did their best to distance where reasonable, rather than have more stay-at-home and quarantine orders.

But honestly unless you are wearing a fit tested mask that is less than a few days old, all it does is slightly reduce transmission possibility.

It's a panacea in most cases.

If everyone is wearing one, and it reduces transmission possibility a bit, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. With over 120,000 dead and more than that having gone through hospitalizations and sickness, and with cases apparently going up in most of the country at the moment, reducing the spread seems like a laudable goal. And again, wearing a mask is no more than a minor inconvenience for most people. It's far better than being forced to stay at home and being unable to work. I'm a lot more worried about more stay-at-home orders and quarantines than about wearing a mask.

There have been some laboratory studies that indicate face masks can help slow the spread, as well as observational studies, but I don't know if there have been any large randomized clinical trials. Most of the evidence available seems to indicate that they can help at least a little, and that they don't cause harm (for most), so I find it an odd place for people to make a stand.

 

[martybegan]

No one of any worth is saying "do nothing", what some are saying is continuing treating it like a 3%-4% mortality bug is overreacting.

Perhaps, but again, mortality isn't the only issue with COVID-19.

It's the issue people in charge have used to justify the levels of quarantine we are seeing, and accepting.

I'm pretty sure I've seen/heard more than just deaths talked about by various government officials when discussing the virus.

Regardless, I'm not trying to justify all of the various tactics that have been used. Wearing masks, however, is not something that will cause any sort of significant problem for the economy. It isn't going to put a bunch of people on furlough, or cause millions to lose their jobs. It's something that nearly everyone can do safely, that costs very little (or nothing directly in places where masks are given away), that is only a minor inconvenience. I would much rather people wore masks and did their best to distance where reasonable, rather than have more stay-at-home and quarantine orders.

But honestly unless you are wearing a fit tested mask that is less than a few days old, all it does is slightly reduce transmission possibility.

It's a panacea in most cases.

If everyone is wearing one, and it reduces transmission possibility a bit, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. With over 120,000 dead and more than that having gone through hospitalizations and sickness, and with cases apparently going up in most of the country at the moment, reducing the spread seems like a laudable goal. And again, wearing a mask is no more than a minor inconvenience for most people. It's far better than being forced to stay at home and being unable to work. I'm a lot more worried about more stay-at-home orders and quarantines than about wearing a mask.

There have been some laboratory studies that indicate face masks can help slow the spread, as well as observational studies, but I don't know if there have been any large randomized clinical trials. Most of the evidence available seems to indicate that they can help at least a little, and that they don't cause harm (for most), so I find it an odd place for people to make a stand.

Even if it's mostly for show, i.e. "pandemic theater"?

And of course based on all this anyone who disagrees with the "wear your mask" mantra is Hitler.

 

[Montrovant]

Even if it's mostly for show, i.e. "pandemic theater"?

And of course based on all this anyone who disagrees with the "wear your mask" mantra is Hitler.

Whether or not it's mostly for show is certainly arguable. I've posted links to a number of studies which conclude that masks can significantly slow the spread of the virus.

I don't think people who disagree with wearing masks are Hitler. I do think being adamantly against wearing them seems pretty selfish.

 

[martybegan]

Even if it's mostly for show, i.e. "pandemic theater"?

And of course based on all this anyone who disagrees with the "wear your mask" mantra is Hitler.

Whether or not it's mostly for show is certainly arguable. I've posted links to a number of studies which conclude that masks can significantly slow the spread of the virus.

I don't think people who disagree with wearing masks are Hitler. I do think being adamantly against wearing them seems pretty selfish.

Well you tend to get the Hitler thing from the media.

Significantly can be a point of argument, all masks do when not fitted properly is deflect your breathing around the outside of perimeter of the mask.