Teacher shortage?? Or surplus of stupid kids??

[Working Man]

How the hell can the United States have a teacher shortage?? THe news report the other night said that US school districts are flying over to the Phillipines to hire school teachers.. Why??

You mean to tell me that we pay our teachers so little that they won't teach???
Or do we dumb down public school students so much that they can't be taught to teach???

This country is just sinking lower, and lower everyday. It is no wonder that the little tyrant countries thumb their noses at us,, their people are teaching our kids!:bang3

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/06/eveningnews/main1689748.shtml

 

[Mr. P]

How the hell can the United States have a teacher shortage?? THe news report the other night said that US school districts are flying over to the Phillipines to hire school teachers.. Why??

You mean to tell me that we pay our teachers so little that they won't teach???
Or do we dumb down public school students so much that they can't be taught to teach???

This country is just sinking lower, and lower everyday. It is no wonder that the little tyrant countries thumb their noses at us,, their people are teaching our kids!:bang3

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/06/eveningnews/main1689748.shtml

No, the starting wage around here is in the 30s, repeat after me UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS!!!

 

[Abbey Normal]

No, the starting wage around here is in the 30s, repeat after me UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS!!!

You speakum thruth Mr. P.

 

[Mr.Conley]

What China does at the end of elementary school, middle school, and high school is give every student a test. Whoever scores in the bottom third each time is then told that they can't continue with their education because they've demonstrated themselves to be low performers, and China only has room for high achievement students. That gets rid of any lazy, stupid, or useless people pretty fast. Either they shape up or get shipped out.

 

[Abbey Normal]

What China does at the end of elementary school, middle school, and high school is give every student a test. Whoever scores in the bottom third each time is then told that they can't continue with their education because they've demonstrated themselves to be low performers, and China only has room for high achievement students. That gets rid of any lazy, stupid, or useless people pretty fast. Either they shape up or get shipped out.

Here (in CA, at least) the low scoring groups sue arguing those tests are unfair to minorities.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

What China does at the end of elementary school, middle school, and high school is give every student a test. Whoever scores in the bottom third each time is then told that they can't continue with their education because they've demonstrated themselves to be low performers, and China only has room for high achievement students. That gets rid of any lazy, stupid, or useless people pretty fast. Either they shape up or get shipped out.

That's good, for china.

Move there. You endorse child and prison labor so much.

 

[Gem]

As someone "in the trenches" I can tell you first hand that I have never met a teacher who left education due to low salaries.

Teachers are leaving education because of lack of respect, fear of lawsuits, and increasingly dumbed-down curriculum that makes them feel like they are part of the system of lowering standards that is making our nation fall further and further behind the competition.

To give you an example of what I mean - let me share with you some of the experiences I had this year:

- A parent taking my hand and saying "I think you're terrific. What you've done with my son this year has been amazing. Seriously, what are you doing here? With two master's degrees you need to get the hell out of here and get yourself into a real job that pays you something worthwhile. Educational law would be great and you'd still be "in the field."

- A 31 year veteran teacher stopping by my room daily to let me know that things were only getting worse and I should "get out while I still can."

- A parent threatening to sue me because I told him that since his 8th grader was reading on a 4th grade level I really couldn't recommend him for French instead of the Reading Strategies course designed to help him pass the PA Achievement tests.

- Parents arguing with me about why their child's special education paperwork can't read "Student will receive no grade lower than an 80%"

- Looking for old 4th and 5th grade text books in the supply closet to work with my students on concepts they are now being taught in 7th and 8th grade

I could go on.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love teaching. I'm going back for more next year.

But several of my collegues are not. And it has NOTHING to do with the union, or with their salary...but rather with our nation's increasing lack of respect for education.

In the past...you could call a parent when a child misbehaved and have an ally...now, you avoid calling the parent for fear of lawsuit. In the past, you could call a parent and say "You son isn't doing his homework," and they would do something about it. Now, they tell you to get off their kid's back, that homework is dumb anyway...that they read an article about a kid who didn't do homework and the school let him pass...how they never did homework and they were fine.

As long as we continue to be a nation that tells parents we will educate their children and they have no responsibility over it...as long as we allow students to fail or score abysmally with no consequences...as long as we allow teachers to be fired because its easier to hire another teacher than it is to fight a lawsuit...you will have teachers burning out and quitting.

For the most part, teachers are highly educated people with a firm committment to instilling a love of learning in young people. To chase them away from that dream takes a lot...and we should be very concerned about how many people are being chased away.

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by Gem:
Teachers are leaving education because of lack of respect, fear of lawsuits, and increasingly dumbed-down curriculum that makes them feel like they are part of the system of lowering standards that is making our nation fall further and further behind the competition.

Same goes for the Netherlands: there is a serious gap between teachers and parents these days, that at present is at least in the news, as people are slowly waking up to the idea that it may not be a good idea to neglect the education of our future adults.

A good educational standard is essential for a country to keep the standards of living at a certain level that is desirable. A lack of education has in the past been the basis of a period we refer to as the Dark Ages.
Time for the lights of reason to shine I'd say.
Good luck with turning the tide at your side of the Atlantic.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

As someone "in the trenches" I can tell you first hand that I have never met a teacher who left education due to low salaries.

Teachers are leaving education because of lack of respect, fear of lawsuits, and increasingly dumbed-down curriculum that makes them feel like they are part of the system of lowering standards that is making our nation fall further and further behind the competition.

To give you an example of what I mean - let me share with you some of the experiences I had this year:

- A parent taking my hand and saying "I think you're terrific. What you've done with my son this year has been amazing. Seriously, what are you doing here? With two master's degrees you need to get the hell out of here and get yourself into a real job that pays you something worthwhile. Educational law would be great and you'd still be "in the field."

- A 31 year veteran teacher stopping by my room daily to let me know that things were only getting worse and I should "get out while I still can."

- A parent threatening to sue me because I told him that since his 8th grader was reading on a 4th grade level I really couldn't recommend him for French instead of the Reading Strategies course designed to help him pass the PA Achievement tests.

- Parents arguing with me about why their child's special education paperwork can't read "Student will receive no grade lower than an 80%"

- Looking for old 4th and 5th grade text books in the supply closet to work with my students on concepts they are now being taught in 7th and 8th grade

I could go on.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love teaching. I'm going back for more next year.

But several of my collegues are not. And it has NOTHING to do with the union, or with their salary...but rather with our nation's increasing lack of respect for education.

In the past...you could call a parent when a child misbehaved and have an ally...now, you avoid calling the parent for fear of lawsuit. In the past, you could call a parent and say "You son isn't doing his homework," and they would do something about it. Now, they tell you to get off their kid's back, that homework is dumb anyway...that they read an article about a kid who didn't do homework and the school let him pass...how they never did homework and they were fine.

As long as we continue to be a nation that tells parents we will educate their children and they have no responsibility over it...as long as we allow students to fail or score abysmally with no consequences...as long as we allow teachers to be fired because its easier to hire another teacher than it is to fight a lawsuit...you will have teachers burning out and quitting.

For the most part, teachers are highly educated people with a firm committment to instilling a love of learning in young people. To chase them away from that dream takes a lot...and we should be very concerned about how many people are being chased away.

So sad. Now they're replacing you with people on board with the NWO decimation of america, foreigners they can control with visa status.

 

[Gem]

Although some of the nations they are bringing teachers in from have a much stricter educational system than ours. I wonder how some of these new teachers will do in our "education-as-customer-service" mindset of what education should be?

 

[Mr. P]

....

But several of my collegues are not. And it has NOTHING to do with the union, ...

Of course it does. Who do you think promoted the dumbing down and started this ball rolling in the first place? The NEA, with help from the U.S. Department of Education?

Everything else you said, I agree with. Sadly this is the result of taking policy out of the local hands and placing it nationally. IMO.

BTW...I always started my first phone call to a teacher like this, ”Hello Ms. Smith, this is Mr. P, I'm not going to scream and holler at you", it always got a chuckle and a "Thank You very much, that will be a change".

 

[Annie]

Of course it does. Who do you think promoted the dumbing down and started this ball rolling in the first place? The NEA, with help from the U.S. Department of Education?

Everything else you said, I agree with. Sadly this is the result of taking policy out of the local hands and placing it nationally. IMO.

BTW...I always started my first phone call to a teacher like this, ”Hello Ms. Smith, this is Mr. P, I'm not going to scream and holler at you", it always got a chuckle and a "Thank You very much, that will be a change".

Well the D of E has only been around since 1979 and the problems were evident long before that. I think the unions have had a role in causing divisiveness between teachers, administrations, and parents. The largest share of blame, outside of parenting however, I think may be laid at the doorstep of the ivory tower education departments at universities.

 

[Mr. P]

Well the D of E has only been around since 1979 and the problems were evident long before that. I think the unions have had a role in causing divisiveness between teachers, administrations, and parents. The largest share of blame, outside of parenting however, I think may be laid at the doorstep of the ivory tower education departments at universities.

I know...so much for what higher education can do for us, it's more like what higher education is doing to us, huh?

Edit: Even though the DE wasn't in effect till 79..the Gove had their fingers in there..Heck mandatory bussing started when I was still in school. Things started a slide from there. IMO. Of course that's just my prospective.

 

[Mr.Conley]

Well the D of E has only been around since 1979 and the problems were evident long before that. I think the unions have had a role in causing divisiveness between teachers, administrations, and parents. The largest share of blame, outside of parenting however, I think may be laid at the doorstep of the ivory tower education departments at universities.

How so?

 

[Annie]

How so?

The 'research' from education departments is often not so reliable. The best stuff comes from the lab schools, but that doesn't generalize all that well. Many of the 'Professors' have only taught a year or two in high school, before moving onto university level. Those that have substantial time in lower grade classrooms, are often far removed from those years.

There always is the impetus to come up with something 'new,' in order to make obsolete all the texts, which of course provides much extra income to the professors.

The whole idea of 'holistic language' has nearly crippled the schools with 'learning disabilities,' only in education would the 'science of research extrapolate on limited testing that what worked wonders with a limited number of reading LD, should be the new method of teaching reading and spelling. It's been a disaster on the level of 'modern math' of the 60's. A generation plagued with math phobia.

 

[Abbey Normal]

During the money-crazy yuppified '80's, teachers were leaving in droves to get MBA's and corporate jobs- for money. At least that's how it was in NYC. The whole Wall Street, "greed is good" cultural phenomenon was apparently too hard to resist.

 

[CockySOB]

The 'research' from education departments is often not so reliable. The best stuff comes from the lab schools, but that doesn't generalize all that well. Many of the 'Professors' have only taught a year or two in high school, before moving onto university level. Those that have substantial time in lower grade classrooms, are often far removed from those years.

I'd be surprised if even a bare majority of professors have any pre-collegiate instructional experience. In my own experience the majority of professors tend to have gone the straight education route, which is to say they got their BS/BA, then their MS/MA and followed with their PhD studies in a contiguous timeline. They might have a short fellowship with a research facility before going tenure-track with some university. I've also seen Masters and PhD come in from industry as tenure-track professors. But, I doubt many professors have ever spent much time in pre-collegiate settings unless they are focusing on the education industry (and that is exactly what it has become, a profit industry).

There always is the impetus to come up with something 'new,' in order to make obsolete all the texts, which of course provides much extra income to the professors.

Quite true. Most PhD's who are teaching professors only carry a minimal classroom load, but are required to produce a certain quota of research and presentation materials to the academic community at-large. Most research-level academic positions are funded through puvlic and private grants which usually provide a good stipend for the faculty involved with the projects. And I figure that a lot of this paid-for research is biased in order to keep the project sponsors happy and their pocketbooks open.

One of my main concerns is that we have a cyclic indoctrination in much of academia wherein the instruction staff have no real-world experiences and draw their "understanding" only from what they have been exposed to when they were students.

Forgive the rambling.....

 

[KarlMarx]

As someone "in the trenches" I can tell you first hand that I have never met a teacher who left education due to low salaries.

Teachers are leaving education because of lack of respect, fear of lawsuits, and increasingly dumbed-down curriculum that makes them feel like they are part of the system of lowering standards that is making our nation fall further and further behind the competition.

To give you an example of what I mean - let me share with you some of the experiences I had this year:

- A parent taking my hand and saying "I think you're terrific. What you've done with my son this year has been amazing. Seriously, what are you doing here? With two master's degrees you need to get the hell out of here and get yourself into a real job that pays you something worthwhile. Educational law would be great and you'd still be "in the field."

- A 31 year veteran teacher stopping by my room daily to let me know that things were only getting worse and I should "get out while I still can."

- A parent threatening to sue me because I told him that since his 8th grader was reading on a 4th grade level I really couldn't recommend him for French instead of the Reading Strategies course designed to help him pass the PA Achievement tests.

- Parents arguing with me about why their child's special education paperwork can't read "Student will receive no grade lower than an 80%"

- Looking for old 4th and 5th grade text books in the supply closet to work with my students on concepts they are now being taught in 7th and 8th grade

I could go on.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love teaching. I'm going back for more next year.

But several of my collegues are not. And it has NOTHING to do with the union, or with their salary...but rather with our nation's increasing lack of respect for education.

In the past...you could call a parent when a child misbehaved and have an ally...now, you avoid calling the parent for fear of lawsuit. In the past, you could call a parent and say "You son isn't doing his homework," and they would do something about it. Now, they tell you to get off their kid's back, that homework is dumb anyway...that they read an article about a kid who didn't do homework and the school let him pass...how they never did homework and they were fine.

As long as we continue to be a nation that tells parents we will educate their children and they have no responsibility over it...as long as we allow students to fail or score abysmally with no consequences...as long as we allow teachers to be fired because its easier to hire another teacher than it is to fight a lawsuit...you will have teachers burning out and quitting.

For the most part, teachers are highly educated people with a firm committment to instilling a love of learning in young people. To chase them away from that dream takes a lot...and we should be very concerned about how many people are being chased away.

I know one or two people that are not teachers who plan on becoming teachers after they retire. One was a teacher, but decided to leave the profession early in her career. The other is a manager who wants to teach at a local university.

I think I'd like to try teaching at a local college myself. I can't decide whether to teach math or programming.

Gem hits the nail on the head, though. I have no desire to teach in public school. Few of the students in public schools are monsters, but the ones who are seem to rule.

It could be that private schools don't suffer the same problems because the entire understanding is different. I'm sure enrollment in private schools means signing papers that stipulate that, in case of a conflict, you agree to find a remedy outside of the courtroom.

However, I wonder how those who teach in private schools feel about their jobs. Except for the salary being quite low, I haven't heard anything about unruly kids or so on. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Gem, my son is in special education. He's graduating from High School in a couple of weeks. He has always been in special education. The parent that had the attitude that setting a lower limit on their child's grade isn't doing them any favors. When our son was struggling in school, I got him help, I pestered his teachers to tell me what they were covering the following week so that I could go over the material with him on weekends. We finally had him held back a year and that seemed to make all the difference. He's now an honor student and will be attending a local community college this fall on a part time basis. My point is that low grades are usually an indication that the child needs attention in some area. He may need extra help. The whole notion of "self esteem" has done more damage to education than most people realize. Sometimes, it is a good thing to fail, if you learn from it..

 

[Gem]

KarlMarx Wrote:

Gem, my son is in special education. He's graduating from High School in a couple of weeks. He has always been in special education. The parent that had the attitude that setting a lower limit on their child's grade isn't doing them any favors. When our son was struggling in school, I got him help, I pestered his teachers to tell me what they were covering the following week so that I could go over the material with him on weekends. We finally had him held back a year and that seemed to make all the difference. He's now an honor student and will be attending a local community college this fall on a part time basis. My point is that low grades are usually an indication that the child needs attention in some area. He may need extra help. The whole notion of "self esteem" has done more damage to education than most people realize. Sometimes, it is a good thing to fail, if you learn from it..

I agree with Kathianne, this difference in this scenario is you. Now, I hope that you also had a dedicated and thorough Learning Support teacher who gave you ideas and strategies to use with your son and taught your son how to best approach learning in a way that made sense to him...but in the end, it was you and your wife that made the ultimate difference.

I have several students like you son, students with supportive parents - who say things like, "What can I do at home to help support what you are teaching him here?" "I don't really care if he is a B or C students, so long as he is doing his absolute best, is learning, and is happy."

These are the parents who make the special education job worthwhile - those who truly believe that we are a team, working together, to help their student learn.

 

[Mr.Conley]

I also think that the student plays an important role when it comes to school. The kid has to "see" what he's doing. Not in the sense of, "I'm doing math." The kids have to realize that what they are learning is important- or at least pays off. Too many students see school as time they could be doing something else. The kids have want to learn if they are going to reach there full potential.