Tax the Rich? Tax the Millionaires!

[Uncle Kenny]

Neither the Boston Fed nor the Minneapolis Fed nor the Clinton or Bush White House or any member of congress "who reinvigorated the CRA" has an answer to the question of why 5,000,000 Americans had to go on food stamps so that 600,000 Americans could become millionaires.

The question can not be answered in terms of Democrat OR Republican.

It's easy to answer in terms of Republican AND Democrat.

Not one of those people on foodstamps is going to have a higher income because taxes are raised on the people who hire and pay them to finance the provider of foodstamps, are they? It might make the bitter barn feel a little better, but that just proves that supposed compassion for their fellow man is just a load of crap.

Besides, who will end up paying those taxes in the end? Those who are wealthy because of ownership will pass the cost on to customers. Those who are earners in services will do the same. Employees who earn that type of money will not accept a pay cut and their employers will have to pay them more and pass that on to consumers as well.

Remember, people who earn that amount do so because they are really valuable and not easily replaced, they will get the difference in pay.

See any patterns forming here?

The main pattern I see forming here is growing income inequality based on government redistributing wealth from producers to parasites.

The recent $13 trillion bailout of Wall Street, for example, kept the debt overhead in place for 98% of Americans while nearly doubling the returns to wealth for the richest 2% of their countrymen.

Who will end up paying those taxes in the end?

Many of those 5,000,000 Americans who resorted to food stamps in 2010 would have avoided the bitter barn altogether if Wall Street bailouts hadn't enabled the stock market to recover and generate those 600,000 new millionaires.

Not all millionaires are really valuable.

Some are simply corrupt, aren't they?

Some would say most are corrupt or they wouldn't be millionaires at all. That may have some truth to it, at least it rings true too often to ignore, doesn't it?

I agree that federal bailout corrupts capitalism and in net effect forces artificial seperation of wealth as well. Taxation on the other hand isn't the appropriate method of eliminating the differential, in my opinion. I believe that will only compound the seperation and would be counter-productive to what I believe might be our common desired outcome.

 

[jgarden]

Yep, punish success. Increase the size and scope of government with nary an idea in sight to get spending under control.

Love these recycled old, demonstrably failed policies.

"If anything, taxes for the lower and middle class and maybe even the upper middle class should even probably be cut further. But I think that people at the high end - people like myself - should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it."

- Warren Buffett

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/warren_buffett.html

Now, now, how dare you tell the truth! We can't have that! Jump on the democrat band wagon! Hate your neighbor, if he dares make more than you! Hate anyone, who has achieved more than you! They....they...they're RICH, and we can't have that! Someone has a bigger house, tax it away from him! Someone has a nicer car? Tax it away from him! That's the democrat spirit, tax and covet, tax and envy, tax and HATE! Damn them anyway, those nasty rich people; ...

 

[jgarden]

You all realize that you cannot possibly 'tax the millionaires' enough to make any real difference in the deficit - right?

There aren't enough of them, and they, as a group, don't make enough money.

"The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you.

But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on."

- Warren Buffett

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/warren_buffett_2.html

..... How about if we taxed millionaires 95% today...would it fund all of our current budget obligations and pay down the defecit? That is, assuming that taxing millionaires 80 or 90 or 95% that they would still invest the same amount of money into the markets and purchase items that help provide jobs.

 

[jgarden]

How many class warfare threads is this dumbass going to make???

Only dummies think hammering the rich with taxes is a good idea......

I see the op has his class warfare banjee dance shit going on again.

It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be.

- Warren V=Buffett (CNN Interview, May 25 2005, in arguing the need to raise taxes on the rich)

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

....as the foul stench of envy and covetousness wafts about the room....

I don't really see what you have against wealthy people. They aren't any more evil than anyone else. Heck, many of them give more than you can possibly imagine to bless the lives of others.

Maybe if you focused on fixing the problems in your own life, and let the so called wealthy do their own things, you wouldn't be so unhappy or bitter.

"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning.

- Warren Buffett (New York Times, November 26, 2006)

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

Republican leaders are genius at getting middle income folks to support the wealthiest.
FDR called them the "economic royalists".

Speech before the 1936 Democratic National Convention

*Class Warfare* Discounted...and ignored. Non-Starter.

 

[jgarden]

... Only dummies think hammering the rich with taxes is a good idea.

Typical liberal bullshit.
You got it, I don't. I want it. You can't have it.
Blah blah blah.

*yawn*

The Conservative/Tea Party
Theme Song

... Why doesn't Mr. Buffett volunteer to pay more??... there is no need for government to FORCE him to do so... until the loud moth ************ puts his money where his mouth is in terms of taxation, I pay him no mind

Who cant laugh their balls off when far left nutballs post up graphs of the debt that ends in 2008!!! I cant even begin to think of an analogy to illustrate the absurdity..........and frankly, who the fcukk can figure the point trying to be made. What? That its acceptable to trade in the SUCK for the SUCKIER just because some percieve the intentions to be better?? Only mental cases think that way.

..... None of their shit has worked for the betterment of the country and that is the prevailing view. America is and has always been a center-right country. Its not even debatable.

Remember assholes...........this forum is not an "Ideology" forum, its a politics forum, thus, the philosophy crap is akin to a group exercise in navel contemplation.

And thats my role on this forum..........to bring the conversation back to real....................

Accordingly, we evidently need to point this out to the far left jarheads...................

 

[The Gadfly]

You all realize that you cannot possibly 'tax the millionaires' enough to make any real difference in the deficit - right?

There aren't enough of them, and they, as a group, don't make enough money.

"The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you.

But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on."

- Warren Buffett

Warren Buffett Quotes - Page 2 - BrainyQuote

..... How about if we taxed millionaires 95% today...would it fund all of our current budget obligations and pay down the defecit? That is, assuming that taxing millionaires 80 or 90 or 95% that they would still invest the same amount of money into the markets and purchase items that help provide jobs.

One more time. When Warren Buffett's actions match his words, I might take him seriously. Until then, those WORDS are just hypocritical ranting; liberal sound and fury, signifying NOTHING! Put your OWN money where your mouth is, Warren, or shut the hell up!

 

[jgarden]

One more time. When Warren Buffett's actions match his words, I might take him seriously. Until then, those WORDS are just hypocritical ranting; liberal sound and fury, signifying NOTHING! Put your OWN money where your mouth is, Warren, or shut the hell up!

1. When actions match ... words, I might take him seriously

2. WORDS are just hypocritical ranting

3. sound and fury, signifying NOTHING!

4. Put your OWN money where your mouth is,

5. shut the hell up!
*********************************************************************************
Freudian slip - named after famous psycho-analyst Sigmund Freud, is when one is speaking, and accidentally inserts a word on one's subconcious mind in place of another penis.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Freudian slip

 

[shintao]

Why should anyone pay more taxes than anyone else?? Whoever drempt up a percentage on profits as a tax base, or deductions, and the poor shouldn't haven't to pay taxes, really fucked America up. It is unconstitutional, as everyone should pay the same amount regardless of circumstances.

 

[editec]

The wealthy fight the class war (and are winning, too) through the proxy of government.

Molly bar the door if the non-rich decide to start fighting back.

As the poor do not own the government they will not fight the war through legislation and policy, but instead that war will begin a crimes on the streets and could possibly lead to civil war.

The Tea Party movement, while basically siding with the rich at this time, could very easily be moved by a populist to become the lightening rod of public dissent against the current power stucture.

You know the definition of a populist conservative, don't you?

That's a person who hasn't yet been mugged by a corporation.

 

[georgephillip]

With the exception of 911 Truth, I don't see any issue with more potential to start the Second American Civil War than 90% of Americans finally realizing they are losing a war they didn't even know about.

Henry Ford was pretty clear what he thought would happen if Americans ever understood how their economy/government operates, and economic events are rapidly sliding backwards in Henry's direction.

Finally, I think the 30% to 60% of eligible voters in the US who don't see enough difference between Republicans and Democrats to usually bother with casting a ballot MIGHT be convinced to vote AGAINST all incumbents from both Wall Street parties starting in 2012.

FLUSH hundreds of Republicans AND Democrats from DC in a single news cycle and the Second American Revolution at least begins at the polls.

Where it goes from there only Henry and Molly know.

 

[skookerasbil]

... Only dummies think hammering the rich with taxes is a good idea.

Typical liberal bullshit.
You got it, I don't. I want it. You can't have it.
Blah blah blah.

*yawn*

The Conservative/Tea Party
Theme Song

... Why doesn't Mr. Buffett volunteer to pay more??... there is no need for government to FORCE him to do so... until the loud moth ************ puts his money where his mouth is in terms of taxation, I pay him no mind

Who cant laugh their balls off when far left nutballs post up graphs of the debt that ends in 2008!!! I cant even begin to think of an analogy to illustrate the absurdity..........and frankly, who the fcukk can figure the point trying to be made. What? That its acceptable to trade in the SUCK for the SUCKIER just because some percieve the intentions to be better?? Only mental cases think that way.

..... None of their shit has worked for the betterment of the country and that is the prevailing view. America is and has always been a center-right country. Its not even debatable.

Remember assholes...........this forum is not an "Ideology" forum, its a politics forum, thus, the philosophy crap is akin to a group exercise in navel contemplation.

And thats my role on this forum..........to bring the conversation back to real....................

Accordingly, we evidently need to point this out to the far left jarheads...................

Laugh.........my........balls..........off...............

Here coming from a guy who was falling all over himself trumpeting the benefits of the stimulus plan in 2009!!! Progressive tax policies have never worked............even Bill Clinton found that out in his second term. Of course, Clinton benefited mightily from the DOt.com bubble, which, by the way, wasnt facilitated by the spending of the lower class!!!


I couldnt give a rats ass about the fortunes of the rich........yet many on this forum are beyond miserably jealous of their success.


What? Tax the at the 80% threshold as if that had no unintended consequences? Cool........then we could all be sitting around at night by candlelight and lighting a fire in our fireplaces and using that for entertainment in the evening!!! Every society has winners and losers but we got a whole segment of society now that despises the creation of wealth. Fcukkk those people.........you make your bed, you sleep in it. But no........these assholes have become obsessed with spending their lives trying to take away what others have earned. How many people every year in America invest in a small business and get fubar'd? INvest 50-100K and end up with nothing? Lots.......especially in the last few years. Then there are those that make an equally risky investment and strike gold. Good for them..........they bring jobs and commodities that are desired by the public. Fcukk the people who want to grab that wealth and give it to the fcukk ups of society.

Even more amazing? Those who dont consider public employee unions to be the ultimate in greed!!! Unlike people who invsted tens of thousands to make their fortune, they didnt contribute shit. Makes zero sense!! Fcukk those people too..........Ive worked my balls off in the same field for 25 years now and my 401K is a joke. Meanwhile, these assholes are lookng at retirement plans where they are making each year for the rest of their lives what Ive made in 25 years..........on the back of the fcukking taxpayer???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Fcukk that............its about to go away. How come no outrage over that on here? But Im the scarecrow?!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chanel]

Nearly half of California’s income taxes before the recession came from the top 1% of earners: households that took in more than $490,000 a year. High earners, it turns out, have especially volatile incomes—their earnings fell by more than twice as much as the rest of the population’s during the recession. When they crashed, they took California’s finances down with them.

Mr. Williams, a former economic forecaster for the state, spent more than a decade warning state leaders about California’s over-dependence on the rich. “We created a revenue cliff,” he said. “We built a large part of our government on the state’s most unstable income group.”

New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and Illinois—states that are the most heavily reliant on the taxes of the wealthy—are now among those with the biggest budget holes. A large population of rich residents was a blessing during the boom, showering states with billions in tax revenue. But it became a curse as their incomes collapsed with financial markets.

Arriving at a time of greatly increased public spending, this reversal highlights the dependence of the states on the outsize incomes of the wealthy. The result for state finances and budgets has been extreme volatility.

The price of taxing the rich « Hot Air Headlines

 

[skookerasbil]

With the exception of 911 Truth, I don't see any issue with more potential to start the Second American Civil War than 90% of Americans finally realizing they are losing a war they didn't even know about.

Henry Ford was pretty clear what he thought would happen if Americans ever understood how their economy/government operates, and economic events are rapidly sliding backwards in Henry's direction.

Finally, I think the 30% to 60% of eligible voters in the US who don't see enough difference between Republicans and Democrats to usually bother with casting a ballot MIGHT be convinced to vote AGAINST all incumbents from both Wall Street parties starting in 2012.

FLUSH hundreds of Republicans AND Democrats from DC in a single news cycle and the Second American Revolution at least begins at the polls.

Where it goes from there only Henry and Molly know.

George........Ive read some of your posts bro..............seems we have more in common than I thought. You're spot on about alot of stuff. My thing is..........I guess Ive wittled it down to what seems to be the political reality that you choose based upon deciding between the "suck" and the "suckier." Look wahts happening in the UK this AM..........coming here soon enough. Ive been saying it for a couple of years now and people laugh at me!!!


Im afraid the poll revolution is only going to happen after our society begins to implode.........and highly desired by Barak Obama by the way. He'll be sitting in the cat bird seat when it goes down.

 

[georgephillip]

Not one of those people on foodstamps is going to have a higher income because taxes are raised on the people who hire and pay them to finance the provider of foodstamps, are they? It might make the bitter barn feel a little better, but that just proves that supposed compassion for their fellow man is just a load of crap.

Besides, who will end up paying those taxes in the end? Those who are wealthy because of ownership will pass the cost on to customers. Those who are earners in services will do the same. Employees who earn that type of money will not accept a pay cut and their employers will have to pay them more and pass that on to consumers as well.

Remember, people who earn that amount do so because they are really valuable and not easily replaced, they will get the difference in pay.

See any patterns forming here?

The main pattern I see forming here is growing income inequality based on government redistributing wealth from producers to parasites.

The recent $13 trillion bailout of Wall Street, for example, kept the debt overhead in place for 98% of Americans while nearly doubling the returns to wealth for the richest 2% of their countrymen.

Who will end up paying those taxes in the end?

Many of those 5,000,000 Americans who resorted to food stamps in 2010 would have avoided the bitter barn altogether if Wall Street bailouts hadn't enabled the stock market to recover and generate those 600,000 new millionaires.

Not all millionaires are really valuable.

Some are simply corrupt, aren't they?

Some would say most are corrupt or they wouldn't be millionaires at all. That may have some truth to it, at least it rings true too often to ignore, doesn't it?

I agree that federal bailout corrupts capitalism and in net effect forces artificial seperation of wealth as well. Taxation on the other hand isn't the appropriate method of eliminating the differential, in my opinion. I believe that will only compound the seperation and would be counter-productive to what I believe might be our common desired outcome.

If our government uses taxation among other techniques to redistribute income upwards, what technique would you recommend to counter that artificial separation of wealth?

 

[georgephillip]

With the exception of 911 Truth, I don't see any issue with more potential to start the Second American Civil War than 90% of Americans finally realizing they are losing a war they didn't even know about.

Henry Ford was pretty clear what he thought would happen if Americans ever understood how their economy/government operates, and economic events are rapidly sliding backwards in Henry's direction.

Finally, I think the 30% to 60% of eligible voters in the US who don't see enough difference between Republicans and Democrats to usually bother with casting a ballot MIGHT be convinced to vote AGAINST all incumbents from both Wall Street parties starting in 2012.

FLUSH hundreds of Republicans AND Democrats from DC in a single news cycle and the Second American Revolution at least begins at the polls.

Where it goes from there only Henry and Molly know.

George........Ive read some of your posts bro..............seems we have more in common than I thought. You're spot on about alot of stuff. My thing is..........I guess Ive wittled it down to what seems to be the political reality that you choose based upon deciding between the "suck" and the "suckier." Look wahts happening in the UK this AM..........coming here soon enough. Ive been saying it for a couple of years now and people laugh at me!!!


Im afraid the poll revolution is only going to happen after our society begins to implode.........and highly desired by Barak Obama by the way. He'll be sitting in the cat bird seat when it goes down.

I'm pretty sure Obama will get to $100 million much faster than Slick Willie did regardless of how badly the economy performs for the rest of us.

In 2008 Wall Street went looking for a rock star with roots to Lincoln and found one with a "black" skin. Just to make things even better, it turns out Obama is one of the few black men afraid to fight.

Liberal/progressives that I know find it very hard to judge Obama by the content of his policies or character, and, instead, seemly base their continued support for him on the color of his skin.

What's called "austerity" is being pushed primarily at a national level in Europe while here the states are leading the charge. It is impossible to ignore rampant union corruption with Democratic politicians. There's no doubt in my mind many public unions are fleecing the taxpayers of their states. (prison guards in my state)

Yet, imho, that is just one more example of a problem that can't be solved by voting for Democrat OR Republican. Democrats have no incentive to change that particular corruption and Republicans (in service to corporate power) want to extinguish any opposition from organized labor.

Finally, the threat from greedy teachers and prison guards pales in comparison to what Wall Street has in store for the next generation of Americans. I believe our biggest threat comes from those with the most money and the most control over elected Republicans AND Democrats at all levels of government.

 

[Lasher]

Tax the leeches on welfare.

 

[The Gadfly]

One more time. When Warren Buffett's actions match his words, I might take him seriously. Until then, those WORDS are just hypocritical ranting; liberal sound and fury, signifying NOTHING! Put your OWN money where your mouth is, Warren, or shut the hell up!

1. When actions match ... words, I might take him seriously

2. WORDS are just hypocritical ranting

3. sound and fury, signifying NOTHING!

4. Put your OWN money where your mouth is,

5. shut the hell up!
*********************************************************************************
Freudian slip - named after famous psycho-analyst Sigmund Freud, is when one is speaking, and accidentally inserts a word on one's subconcious mind in place of another penis.

Urban Dictionary: Freudian slip

Attempting a little deflection, are we? FAIL, major FAIL! I'm not the one saying I don't pay enough taxes; Warren Buffett is. Therefore, Mr. Buffett is the one talking the talk, but not walking the talk. . As for me, I AM putting my money exactly where my mouth is, by using some of it to support those candidates and parties who WON"T raise taxes, and oppose those candidates and parties who WILL. I also put my vote to exactly the same use, and I will continue to. Where's the hypocrisy in THAT? I DO what I ADVOCATE; Warren Buffett is a hypocrite, who says one thing, and does another, and I called him on it. Get it? No? Google the definition of "hypocrite"; apparently you don't know the meaning of the word. Otherwise, go back to your coloring book, and see if you can keep your little crayon between the lines.

I don't know whether you are being deliberately obtuse, don't comprehend the written word, or simply fell asleep in vocabulary class, nor do I care. Far be it from me to try to remedy your intellectual sloth.

 

[The T]

Why should anyone pay more taxes than anyone else?? Whoever drempt up a percentage on profits as a tax base, or deductions, and the poor shouldn't haven't to pay taxes, really fucked America up. It is unconstitutional, as everyone should pay the same amount regardless of circumstances.

And the Founders never meant to directly tax income. It was commerce that was taxed to fund government.

The current tax code is nothing but a tool that government uses to buy votes, and the control behaviour. It's out of control.

 

[kaz]

Why should anyone pay more taxes than anyone else?? Whoever drempt up a percentage on profits as a tax base, or deductions, and the poor shouldn't haven't to pay taxes, really fucked America up. It is unconstitutional, as everyone should pay the same amount regardless of circumstances.

And the Founders never meant to directly tax income. It was commerce that was taxed to fund government.

The current tax code is nothing but a tool that government uses to buy votes, and the control behaviour. It's out of control.

Yes, and they wanted that for the right reason. The sum of all commerce is our economy. When you tax commerce it's as efficient as you can. In the end, all taxes are taxes on the economy except the death tax. But when you bury them in layers as we do you add overhead and inefficiency which becomes another "tax" in that it reduces our economy even further then the payment itself. Tax lawyers and accountants and all the business and personal decisions to avoid taxes are rational individual decisions but insane for our country to do.

The best proposal I've seen is the "Fair Tax" because it does directly just tax commerce without all the layers and complications that further erode our economy. The biggest enemy of it are politicians and liberals who to your point don't want to use the tax code to fund the government but to control economic activity.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Sigh.

If you took every dime from everyone making over 250k/yr, you'd still have a $1000B deficit.

How do you suggest we take care of that?