Zone1 Tax the Rich! Make them Pay their Fair Share!

[hadit]

The rich benefit and make all of their profit and gains off of our labor gain.

The rich utilize our international banking systems and the safety net built around them (through our labor) and we have ant FTC, FCC, the Treasury, and other agencies to protect mostly them, the rich utilize our airports on a near daily basis where many Americans have never been on one, we have an FAA to protect them....

the rich use many services and benefit greatly from many financial protections the government provides....there is a price to maintain that.....

ARE you paid when hired, BEFORE you work your first week...? Nope!.....you produce the labor, then are paid....

They pay more in taxes because they earn more in profit off of our labor than we do.

The rich pay the exact same rate as everyone at the level of money earned.

They pay no more taxes on their first $100,000 earned as I would on my $100,000 earned, and no more taxes on $250,000 taxable income as my $250k earned.... If we don't pay any taxes on the first $12000 we earn, the rich also don't pay any taxes on the first $12000 they earn too.

We tax them the same rate as everyone else for income in that range...

I see nothing in there about how the rich risk their wealth to create businesses and hire labor. Nor do I see anything in there about how labor doesn't risk anything if a business fails while the wealthy guy who started it all with his wealth can lose everything. You're only talking about one side of the coin, pretending that businesses just exist.

 

[Hafar1014]

Heres better idea lets tax the government. We do that by cutting spending and firing useless workers. That frees capital to go into the private sector

 

[dblack]

Usually not.
People making more usually need less from the government and are providing into the economy more than higher taxes on them would provide.

One case in point is that with higher levels of consumption (goods and services) they have provided more employment in wealth creation sector than their higher paid taxes would have.

Yeah. As I suggested, I don't really buy the argument. It's just another iteration of identity politics. The pov is that rich people should be punished because they're rich. Not because of anything, in particular, that they've done wrong. It's just a bad legal premise in my view.

 

[Stryder50]

If the "rich" control 90% (or, whatever percentage), then naturally they should pay at least that percentage of the costs of defending the nation and their wealth. They also have an interest in the health of all the "poor" who make the nation function. It isn't a matter of "fair share", it is a matter of reasonable share.

For the most part they already do, especially when tax rates are equal, more so when progressive increase per income increase.

"rich" also pay in ways better than taxes 'pay society' since the "rich" don't bury their money in a coffee can in their back yard, but invest in businesses that will grow wealth(money) and in turn provide jobs for "labor".

"rich" are also consumers of higher cost items and services, again providing jobs for "labor".

Cost of defending our nation, and It's wealth, is a small portion of how government finds ways to spend the tax dollar$.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time​

 

[citygator]

I love you guys. I hope you get your way and those of us with money get some relief from paying taxes!

 

[dblack]

I love you guys. I hope you get your way and those of us with money get some relief from paying taxes!

So, it's all about you, eh?

 

[candycorn]

A couple of years ago, at a family function (graduation party), the subject of taxation came up. It wasn't me that brought it up, but I did make the mistake of kicking the hornets' nest.

The subject was mostly about the economy and Trump (again, it wasn't me), and one of my in-laws said something about "tax cuts for the rich," or "the rich not paying their fair share."

I wanted a clear answer and explanation for how to know or calculate what "their fair share" should be. That's all.

You would have thought I threatened them with a gun or something.

Needless to say, I never got an answer.

In my view, each and every citizens "tax burden" should initially be the same dollar amount. Thereafter, there should be taxes based on usage. For example, if you have a trucking company with 200 trucks running up and down the road every day.

My reasoning goes like this.

If Trump, Musk, or any other Billionaire were standing in line to buy a gallon of milk at the grocery store, should their cost for their gallon of milk be exponentially higher than what I pay, just because they have and make more money than I do?

In my view, fairness means we all pay the same.

Change My Mind.

When you make less than 150,000 a year (give or take), every paycheck you get has SS taxes taken out of them. When you make more than 150,000 a year (give or take) your paycheck no longer has SS taxes taken out of them.

If your "reasoning" is that "we all pay the same" you'd be for taxing the rich for every dollar they make just like we do to the poor, right?

Change my mind.

 

[BackAgain]

They got rich off of labor...not a factory they bought, or supplies they bought, or bricks made for the factory, and the building of the factory they bought...labor touches everything and money...capital produces nothing....without labor, money means nothing without labor. Labor is the ALPHA, the beginning to

Their gains come from paying laborers less than what the labor cost them to make a product including the cost for the product materials....all of their profit and wealth comes from laborers producing more than what you pay them to make.

Read the link!

Labor has no value and nothing to do unless the entrepreneurs and other capitalists create the ideas for the stuff they sell and they buy the land and the buildings. Plus, build the Machinery and fuel the buildings the machines and their own fleets and arrange the securing of the raw materials and the distribution of the product … plus train the labor and do the payroll taxes and cover them with insurance of various kinds. Oh, also: etc.

 

[Care4all]

Labor has no value and nothing to do unless the entrepreneurs and other capitalists create the ideas for the stuff they sell and they buy the land and the buildings. Plus, build the Machinery and fuel the buildings the machines and their own fleets and arrange the securing of the raw materials and the distribution of the product … plus train the labor and do the payroll taxes and cover them with insurance of various kinds. Oh, also: etc.

Simply not true.

Labor is the value...

Labor makes the money exist....

First we bartered our labor...
I'll cut down the trees to build your house if you dig the clay and shape the bricks for my house.

When our labor created more than what we could barter with another man over...our excess gain from our labor, we began a widespread trade....spread worldwide...excess goods from labor in India, made it to Europe and visa versa.... No coin money had even been created yet...that wasn't until around 600 B.C.....and prior to coin when the gains from our labor was busting at the seams we created commodities as a means to hold wealth...like the invaluable at the time...Salt....(the base word for salary), or cattle.

Labor...actually ....excesses made from our labor...began it all.... (along with having natural resources such as forests, and granite mountains and red clay earth etc etc etc)

And the excesses made from our labor, is the business's profit.

 

[Mac-7]

Simply not true.

Labor is the value...

Labor makes the money exist....

First we bartered our labor...
I'll cut down the trees to build your house if you dig the clay and shape the bricks for my house.

When our labor created more than what we could barter with another man over...our excess gain from our labor, we began a widespread trade....spread worldwide...excess goods from labor in India, made it to Europe and visa versa.... No coin money had even been created yet...that wasn't until around 600 B.C.....and prior to coin when the gains from our labor was busting at the seams we created commodities as a means to hold wealth...like the invaluable at the time...Salt....(the base word for salary), or cattle.

Labor...actually ....excesses made from our labor...began it all.... (along with having natural resources such as forests, and granite mountains and red clay earth etc etc etc)

And the excesses made from our labor, is the business's profit.

Of course labor has value

But so does management, ownership, entrepreneurs, ect

Both need each other

 

[Dorian Mode]

I can't think of a time or place since the dawn of civilization that the rich haven't completely controlled everything. This problem may never be solved. As for America, I remember reading something from the Federalist Papers in which, I believe it was Madison, admitted that the primary function of any government is to protect the land owners from those that aren't. To solve this problem means undoing perhaps 6000 years of precedent. My only contribution to this thread is to suggest that the solution to our problems are probably not going to be found in old industrial age ideas like Communism or Capitalism. Those two ideas may have to be abandoned for better ideas (to be discovered and debated) that fully incorporate today's post-industrial technology and capabilities.

 

[Chuz Life]

When you make less than 150,000 a year (give or take), every paycheck you get has SS taxes taken out of them. When you make more than 150,000 a year (give or take) your paycheck no longer has SS taxes taken out of them.

If your "reasoning" is that "we all pay the same" you'd be for taxing the rich for every dollar they make just like we do to the poor, right?

Change my mind.

Lies by omission are still lies.

"Income taxes are separate from Social Security and Medicare taxes and are withheld from your paycheck regardless of your income level, with no cap like the Social Security wage base. For 2025, federal income tax is progressive, with rates ranging from 10% to 37% depending on your taxable income and filing status. The amount withheld from each paycheck depends on your total income, allowances claimed on your W-4 form, and the tax bracket you fall into. Unlike Social Security taxes, which stop after you earn $176,100 (for 2025), federal and state (if applicable) income taxes continue to be withheld on all your earnings throughout the year. For example, if you earn $200,000, income taxes apply to the entire amount, with higher portions taxed at higher rates according to the tax brackets."

https://x.com/i/grok/share/IHCEkmnhMUgLJQpvYPp67hFd4

 

[candycorn]

Lies by omission are still lies.

"Income taxes are separate from Social Security and Medicare taxes and are withheld from your paycheck regardless of your income level, with no cap like the Social Security wage base. For 2025, federal income tax is progressive, with rates ranging from 10% to 37% depending on your taxable income and filing status. The amount withheld from each paycheck depends on your total income, allowances claimed on your W-4 form, and the tax bracket you fall into. Unlike Social Security taxes, which stop after you earn $176,100 (for 2025), federal and state (if applicable) income taxes continue to be withheld on all your earnings throughout the year. For example, if you earn $200,000, income taxes apply to the entire amount, with higher portions taxed at higher rates according to the tax brackets."

https://x.com/i/grok/share/IHCEkmnhMUgLJQpvYPp67hFd4

So the rich pay nothing after $176,100 in terms of social security taxes. Not sure what you are calling a lie.

 

[Chuz Life]

So the rich pay nothing after $176,100 in terms of social security taxes. Not sure what you are calling a lie.

Show me where the OP said anything about Social Security.

Especially about Social Security exclusively.

 

[leftwinger]

When you make less than 150,000 a year (give or take), every paycheck you get has SS taxes taken out of them. When you make more than 150,000 a year (give or take) your paycheck no longer has SS taxes taken out of them.

If your "reasoning" is that "we all pay the same" you'd be for taxing the rich for every dollar they make just like we do to the poor, right?

Change my mind.

They payback is capped dummy.

 

[leftwinger]

Obiden-Buffet is misleading when he says his $100K secretary pays a higher tax burden?

Not on personal income tax. If your income is higher, your rate is higher.

Since Obiden-Buffet trades Billions in stock he is probably primarily taxed on Capital gains (lower than top income tax rate).

He could just say that or tell the truth, but it appears Obiden 1.0 got to him. I'll say it: Buffet is lying.

AFTER TAX DOLLARS is used to trade stocks & Bonds. But for retirement accounts.

He could take it up with Congress.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Show me where the OP said anything about Social Security.

Especially about Social Security exclusively.

You didn't say Social Security exclusively, you talked about tax burden.

It was said in the OP: "In my view, each and every citizens "tax burden" should initially be the same dollar amount. Thereafter, there should be taxes based on usage. For example, if you have a trucking company with 200 trucks running up and down the road every day."

Social Security is part of the tax burden along with:

• Federal Income Tax Rate
• State Income Tax rates
• Property Tax (Land)
• Property Tax (Non-land)
• Sales Tax
• Embedded Taxes (local, state, federal)

WW

 

[Grumblenuts]

You didn't say Social Security exclusively, you talked about tax burden.

It was said in the OP: "In my view, each and every citizens "tax burden" should initially be the same dollar amount. Thereafter, there should be taxes based on usage. For example, if you have a trucking company with 200 trucks running up and down the road every day."

Social Security is part of the tax burden along with:

• Federal Income Tax Rate
• State Income Tax rates
• Property Tax (Land)
• Property Tax (Non-land)
• Sales Tax
• Embedded Taxes (local, state, federal)

WW

Also,

In my view, fairness means we all pay the same.

 

[Chuz Life]

I'll just put this here.

"In essence, the system is designed so the poor benefit more proportionally, subsidizing their retirement security through contributions from higher earners. This progressivity is a core feature, though debates persist on sustainability given the wage cap and aging demographics."

Grok

Grok is an AI assistant built by xAI. Chat, create images, write code, and get real-time answers from the web and X.

grok.com

 

[WorldWatcher]

I'll just put this here.

"In essence, the system is designed so the poor benefit more proportionally, subsidizing their retirement security through contributions from higher earners. This progressivity is a core feature, though debates persist on sustainability given the wage cap and aging demographics."

Grok

Grok is an AI assistant built by xAI. Chat, create images, write code, and get real-time answers from the web and X.

grok.com

Yet your OP talks about "tax buden" and you left out this part from your link (emphasis added):

"Social Security payroll taxes are often described as regressive because they apply at a flat rate up to the cap, meaning lower-income workers pay a higher percentage of their total earnings compared to high earners (whose income above the cap goes untaxed for Social Security purposes)."

Which loops back to the idea that "tax buden" isn't a function of Federal Income Tax, tax burden is actually the aggregate of all taxes as a function of percentate of income, all income - not just wages/salary.

WW