Surprise! It's a Muslim!

[irosie91]

No, we are most certainly not at war with Muslims.

Get your head out of your ass.

We ain't? So how come these raghead bitches are screaming ALLAHU AKBAR before they pull the cord on their sucide vests?

We ain't at war with BUDDHISTS this time around like happened in Vietnam. Or Shintoists like with Japan. Or the godless dogma of Lenin like in Korea.

And it's about time the Kenyan admits we ARE at war with ISLAM before that war comes home....because it's coming home and it will be a bloodbath for "moderate" muslims when we retaliate in kind

Let's be more politic about this-----Let's say we are at war with any muslim who supports the notion of a
SHARIAH SOCIETY anywhere in the world

 

[BullKurtz]

We are over there killing thousand of their people, not just in battle but innocent children and civilians die or have died. We cannot with any honesty say we are not violent: we are very violent.

So if a terrorist runs into a home, his own or next door, after engaging American Troopers, they should stand down because the terrorist has hidden himself around "innocents" like the coward that he is? Or we should respect his "religion" when he fires at us from a mosque, stores his munitions and supplies in that mosque, and cries to the world when we go in there after him? There are no "innocents" in asymmetrical warfare because there are no uniforms, no flag (that's changing), no non-combatants. If you feed, reload his weapons, provide shelter and cohabitation for a terrorist, YOU are also a terrorist and a target of opportunity. As shitty as that seems to a western woman, it's the cold hard fact of this war.

 

[jasonnfree]

It isn't the religion of Islam but rather the bloodlust culture it has spawned.
When adherents to that culture exhibit no tolerance for "the other" or even others within their own culture...

Maybe the problem you guys are having understanding this issue is the same Fox-brainrot problem that we see causing you guys trouble on so many issues... Fox only shows you Muslims in the context of terrorism, and you don't have much exposure to the real world, so you just start to think Muslim=terrorist or something... In real life, of course, Muslims are no more prone to violence than anybody else. If you meet a particular Muslim person, they're just like anybody else you would meet. Terrorists are like 0.001% of Muslims just like they're 0.001% of Christians or whatever the percentage is... The problem is your lack of exposure skewing your perception.

If Islam doesn't make people prone to violence then why do we keep seeing people who converted to Islam or joined an Islamist group get infected with sudden Jihad syndrome, and go out and slaughter complete strangers who are totally innocent? There has to be something in the ideology that makes them think they are doing the right thing. Period.

In terms of real numbers Roudy...how many is it? Is it really so many? Is it media? Are the numbers any different than those of Christian anti-goverment survivalist types who stockpile weapons and eventually go postal?

How many what? Sept. 11 they murdered 3000. If they can kill more they would. They certainly haven't shown any mercy to those they threatened to behead, did they? Do you think these same animals will "hold back" if they get their hands on a WMD? These Islamists are lining up Kurds, Christians, and all those that stand in their way and mowing them down and then burying them in mass graves.

Also. your hypothetical is a false comparison that just doesn't exist. The Christian world has for the most part reformed. Even the Christian fringe groups you and others keep referring to aren't really doing anything, and are considered outcasts and ostracized by everybody. In fact Christianity in the whole is in decline in the West.

Islam on the other hand is clearly on a backwards trajectory to the 7th century, and it's followers are currently projecting the worst evil, violence and intolerance that humanity has seen for a long time. It is obvious that Islam and Western ideals of freedom, democracy, free speech, equality, human rights, dialogue etc. are just not compatible. It's not going to work. Can't mix oil and water.

The fact is that so called Christians on here, many of them, are as violent in their hearts as they believe Muslims are.

Hmmm...I think I will take a Christian who is "violent in his heart," but doesn't act on it because he is a Christian...vs. a muslim who is both violent in his heart and also violent in his actions...against innocent men, women and children...

Do you sorta see the difference there...?

We are over there killing thousand of their people, not just in battle but innocent children and civilians die or have died. We cannot with any honesty say we are not violent: we are very violent.

America is a the biggest threat to world peace according to surveys. I happen to agree.

 

[eagle1462010]

Maybe the problem you guys are having understanding this issue is the same Fox-brainrot problem that we see causing you guys trouble on so many issues... Fox only shows you Muslims in the context of terrorism, and you don't have much exposure to the real world, so you just start to think Muslim=terrorist or something... In real life, of course, Muslims are no more prone to violence than anybody else. If you meet a particular Muslim person, they're just like anybody else you would meet. Terrorists are like 0.001% of Muslims just like they're 0.001% of Christians or whatever the percentage is... The problem is your lack of exposure skewing your perception.

If Islam doesn't make people prone to violence then why do we keep seeing people who converted to Islam or joined an Islamist group get infected with sudden Jihad syndrome, and go out and slaughter complete strangers who are totally innocent? There has to be something in the ideology that makes them think they are doing the right thing. Period.

In terms of real numbers Roudy...how many is it? Is it really so many? Is it media? Are the numbers any different than those of Christian anti-goverment survivalist types who stockpile weapons and eventually go postal?

How many what? Sept. 11 they murdered 3000. If they can kill more they would. They certainly haven't shown any mercy to those they threatened to behead, did they? Do you think these same animals will "hold back" if they get their hands on a WMD? These Islamists are lining up Kurds, Christians, and all those that stand in their way and mowing them down and then burying them in mass graves.

Also. your hypothetical is a false comparison that just doesn't exist. The Christian world has for the most part reformed. Even the Christian fringe groups you and others keep referring to aren't really doing anything, and are considered outcasts and ostracized by everybody. In fact Christianity in the whole is in decline in the West.

Islam on the other hand is clearly on a backwards trajectory to the 7th century, and it's followers are currently projecting the worst evil, violence and intolerance that humanity has seen for a long time. It is obvious that Islam and Western ideals of freedom, democracy, free speech, equality, human rights, dialogue etc. are just not compatible. It's not going to work. Can't mix oil and water.

The fact is that so called Christians on here, many of them, are as violent in their hearts as they believe Muslims are.

Hmmm...I think I will take a Christian who is "violent in his heart," but doesn't act on it because he is a Christian...vs. a muslim who is both violent in his heart and also violent in his actions...against innocent men, women and children...

Do you sorta see the difference there...?

We are over there killing thousand of their people, not just in battle but innocent children and civilians die or have died. We cannot with any honesty say we are not violent: we are very violent.

America is a the biggest threat to world peace according to surveys. I happen to agree.

That's your problem and not mine.

 

[SAYIT]

There was nothing illegal about our actions in either country and neither you nor I nor anyone else knows what global Islamist terror attacks would have transpired without our intervention. Have you forgotten what a "paradise" Iraq was before we got there:

Human rights in Saddam Hussein s Iraq - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A war of aggression is the supreme international crime, and the US invasion of Iraq proves beyond all doubt how it "contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Evil like IS, for example, or hatchet attacks in NY.

War of aggression - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]

As always, you are groping for a way to blame America for the ills which plague Arab/Muslims and as usual nothing could be further from the truth.
There was nothing illegal about our action in Iraq and the current incarnation of Islamism - as practiced by 21st Century Islamists - began some 50 years ago with the decline of the most recent (but hopefully not final) attempt to modernize that death culture.
Call IS what you will but it is simply a continuation - by a newer name - of decades of Islamist oppression and carnage.

 

[SAYIT]

We are over there killing thousand of their people, not just in battle but innocent children and civilians die or have died. We cannot with any honesty say we are not violent: we are very violent.

America is a the biggest threat to world peace according to surveys. I happen to agree.

That's your problem and not mine.

In a way the "thinking" of peeps like Esmeralda and Jasonfree are a drag on everyone. Sanctimonious, hand-wringing bleeding hearts engage in moral equivocation where any action which causes injuries or death is equal to all which do so regardless of any extenuating circumstances. There is good reason why America is called upon when the shit-hits-the-fan pretty much anywhere (most recently the Yazidis) in the developing world. The hand-wringers conveniently forget or ignore the role we inherited: keeping the barbarians at bay.

 

[BullKurtz]

Further, when the "Sons of Iraq" sunni tribes defeated al-Qaida in the Gen. Petraeus program of repatriation, the war in Iraq was won. The shia gave up after Sadr ran to Iran and the rest was a mop-up operation. The sunnis are hardcore muslims alright, but they won't tolerate the al-Qaida and now ISIL brand of sharia law. Bush understood this, Obozo never has when he allowed Maliki to abuse the sunnis who counted on the US to follow through and give them a certain amount of autonomy and oil revenue. Then Obozo found a loophole in the status of forces agreement and quit Iraq. Imagine what would have happened in South Korea if we'd left them on their own two years after the cessation of fighting there. So that's where we are and where the sunni tribes who came back to us are. They will again throw out the hyenas of ISIL if we give them reason to by arming and financing them again like Gen. Petraeus did. All that's required is an American president with a spine instead of the breathless starlet jellyfish we have now.

 

[SAYIT]

It isn't the religion of Islam but rather the bloodlust culture it has spawned.
When adherents to that culture exhibit no tolerance for "the other" or even others within their own culture...

Maybe the problem you guys are having understanding this issue is the same Fox-brainrot problem that we see causing you guys trouble on so many issues... Fox only shows you Muslims in the context of terrorism, and you don't have much exposure to the real world, so you just start to think Muslim=terrorist or something... In real life, of course, Muslims are no more prone to violence than anybody else. If you meet a particular Muslim person, they're just like anybody else you would meet. Terrorists are like 0.001% of Muslims just like they're 0.001% of Christians or whatever the percentage is... The problem is your lack of exposure skewing your perception.

If Islam doesn't make people prone to violence then why do we keep seeing people who converted to Islam or joined an Islamist group get infected with sudden Jihad syndrome, and go out and slaughter complete strangers who are totally innocent? There has to be something in the ideology that makes them think they are doing the right thing. Period.

In terms of real numbers Roudy...how many is it? Is it really so many? Is it media? Are the numbers any different than those of Christian anti-goverment survivalist types who stockpile weapons and eventually go postal?

How many what? Sept. 11 they murdered 3000. If they can kill more they would. They certainly haven't shown any mercy to those they threatened to behead, did they? Do you think these same animals will "hold back" if they get their hands on a WMD? These Islamists are lining up Kurds, Christians, and all those that stand in their way and mowing them down and then burying them in mass graves.

Also. your hypothetical is a false comparison that just doesn't exist. The Christian world has for the most part reformed. Even the Christian fringe groups you and others keep referring to aren't really doing anything, and are considered outcasts and ostracized by everybody. In fact Christianity in the whole is in decline in the West.

Islam on the other hand is clearly on a backwards trajectory to the 7th century, and it's followers are currently projecting the worst evil, violence and intolerance that humanity has seen for a long time. It is obvious that Islam and Western ideals of freedom, democracy, free speech, equality, human rights, dialogue etc. are just not compatible. It's not going to work. Can't mix oil and water.

Ultimately it comes down to people involved, do they believe in violence and discrimination towards those following another belief system?

Places like Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and parts of Turkey, UAE and Malaysia are mostly tolerant and non violent. But Iran, Saudi Arabia, and so on are obvious theocracies - so it is very difficult to be a Christian or non-Muslim in those countries.

If you want to see a bad example of 'Islamic democracy' though, then visit Turkey. Basically a tyranny of the majority, where Christians are still persecuted. The massacres and genocides may have ended, but ancient churches are still bulldozed and ancient graves are still desecrated.

Also ethnic Turkish Christians and non-ethnic Turkish Christians struggle to worship without being hounded or denied the right to set up a place of worship. Muslims there however get everything their way and can build Mosques pretty much everywhere, 'secularism' there is a sham.

Unfortunately, some Muslims aren't coming with a tolerant attitude to the west, let alone an appreciation of human rights. Some of my ancestors would have learned the hard way how terrible 'Muslims' could be, after living under Sharia Law and the constant massacres under Ottoman rule, though most of the family fortunately left in the early 1900s, before the Young Turks did their genocides in 1918.

When I see protests of Turks denying the past, I see their ancestors proclaiming from Mosques 'Kill the Christians and you will go to paradise', and the rivers running red with blood from the dead bodies of men, women and children - who trusted in their tyrant Sultan to protect them.

Certainly I hope that Muslims have learned, but with ISIS massacring people in Iraq and Syria, it has to feel like they haven't. When people fail to learn from the horrors of the past, they are doomed to repeat them.

Rational, factual, balanced and well said. Kudos.
Unfortunately some 2nd gen American Muslims - perhaps in their youthful revolt - have embraced radical Islam and are turning on the very country to which their parents came to escape Islam's excesses.
Adding to the problem is the "hipness" some non-Muslim kids perceive in donning the garb, growing the beard and joining the Islamists.
Tech savvy Jihadists are using the West's advancements (because God knows they have precious few of their own) to inculcate naive and impressionable kids in their culture of "glorious death." In the civilized world we have a term for that - CHILD ABUSE - yet no self-respecting lib has the cojones to say it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Spoken like a true "grown-up."

I am 60 years old and own my own business.

How about you, eh?

 

[irosie91]

Muslim youths will continue to be terrorists as long as terrorism is LAUDED in the Islamic world-------American boys will continue to dream of being baseball greats so long as baseball is lauded in the USA. ----for the record----terrorism is lauded in the Islamic world

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Esmeralda, post: 10042266,
We are over there killing thousand of their people, not just in battle but innocent children and civilians die or have died. We cannot with any honesty say we are not violent: we are very violent.[/QUOTE]

We are over there engaged in a war---- War is violent. Lots of people believe that the war is justified. ----some don't. ----
Your comment is boring and meaningless by virtue of
over use-----and lack of meaningful content. Just for
my own curiosity-----would you let me know if had you been around circa 1940 -----you would have opposed USA entrance into world war II ? How about world war I ?

 

[irosie91]

What are you talking about? Wait, let me guess. I bet you're talking about the passages in the Koran that talk about that women should be stoned to death for being raped and whatnot, right? Were you aware that those same exact passages are in the Christian bible too?

Where in the Bible? Specifically where in the New Testament, you know, theChristian part of the Bible? Is this your interpretation of 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'? Fascinating.

It is so interesting the way you people discard the Old Testament when it is convenient. I'd say that kind of behavior is sacrilegious. You have no respect for your religion when it comes to making a point on a discussion forum. Very interesting indeed.

I find it interesting that people discard the New Testament when babbling nonsense about 'Christianity' in attempts to lie their asses off re Christian doctrine, or Jewish doctrine for that matter, and pretend there is some sort of equivalence with Islam and the Koran. Very interesting indeed.

You are just being abusive. You didn't respond to my question at all. Show where so called Christians purposely discard New Testament theology to make a point on this forum. Regularly, Christians find it convenient to discard the Old Testament if it gets in the way of making their point, and they cling to the New Testament and say as they are Christians that's all that matters. You all better start a new religion that doesn't include the Old Testament.

I know as much about the Bible as any other average Christian. I went to Sunday school and church all during my upbringing. Are you denying me my Christianity?

The fact is that so called Christians on here, many of them, are as violent in their hearts as they believe Muslims are. Neither Christians nor Muslims who are violent in their hearts are adhering to the true tenets of their religions,

I am curious, Esmeralda-----do you think you know something about islam?

 

[2aguy]

We cannot with any honesty say we are not violent: we are very violent.

I don't ever remember anyone saying we aren't violent...we are judicious in our use of violence and go to war only when forced...like when the muslim terrorists killed 3000 of our people...after bombing 2 of our embassies, blowing a hole in the Cole, and killing our ambassadors...we kind of got the hint that this crap wasn't going to stop by being nice...

 

[2aguy]

Are you still trying to ignore the illegal US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and their contributions to global Islamist terror attacks?

Oh...you went to a government school run by the education wing of the democrat party...that's why you have no understanding of what actually happened...

saddam violated the ceasefire agreement...years before the invasion...Afghanistan was the training ground for the terrorists who killed 3000 Americans...so we had every right to attack those countries...we don't have to ask permission from limp wristed Europeans or anyone else to protect our people...especially when those Europeans are being bribed by saddam's oil money...

 

[Roudy]

The Supreme International Crime meme:
"The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, called the waging of aggressive war 'essentially an evil thing...to initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.'[2]

"Article 39 of the United Nations Charter provides that the UN Security Council shall determine the existence of any act of aggression and 'shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security'

War of aggression - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

WTF has that to do with the most recent Islamist terror attacks on civilians WORLDWIDE?
Are you attempting to derail another thread?

It has absolutely nothing, it's just another lame attempt to divert and distract from the obvious.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Where in the Bible? Specifically where in the New Testament, you know, theChristian part of the Bible? Is this your interpretation of 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'? Fascinating.

So obviously you know exactly where it is, so why are you playing stupid?

It is in exactly the same books of the bible that it is in the Koran. It is in the old testament which they both incorporate.

So you're admitting then that when Muslims interpret the scripture, they get violent and act out their violence.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Where in the Bible? Specifically where in the New Testament, you know, theChristian part of the Bible? Is this your interpretation of 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'? Fascinating.

So obviously you know exactly where it is, so why are you playing stupid?

It is in exactly the same books of the bible that it is in the Koran. It is in the old testament which they both incorporate.

So you're admitting then that when Muslims interpret the scripture, they get violent and act out their violence.

 

[georgephillip]

What hint? The one about maiming, murdering, displacing, and incarcerating millions of innocent civilians for control of their oil and gas resources?

It's always the same tired crap with you people, isn't it?

You people follow a political doctrine that says you are so superior to everybody else, but are so far behind the western world, it isn't even funny. Instead of doing anything about improving yourselves, you just wallow in that hatred of yours. Everywhere you people go, you ball up your fists and demand everybody else submit to your every tantrum.

It's time for Muslims to grow the fuck up and stop blaming everybody else for their shortcomings.

Muslims aren't launching wars of aggression on the opposite side of the planet from their homelands, are they?

Muslims aren't the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World...You are.

Own it. Slaves like you always blame your victims for the misery your illegal wars inflict on innocent civilians, like cancer rates in Fallujah, for example:

"Dramatic increases in infant mortality, cancer and leukaemia in the Iraqi city of Fallujah, which was bombarded by US Marines in 2004, exceed those reported by survivors of the atomic bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, according to a new study.

"Iraqi doctors in Fallujah have complained since 2005 of being overwhelmed by the number of babies with serious birth defects, ranging from a girl born with two heads to paralysis of the lower limbs. They said they were also seeing far more cancers than they did before the battle for Fallujah between US troops and insurgents."

That's a real tantrum.

Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah worse than Hiroshima - Middle East - World - The Independent

 

[georgephillip]

There was nothing illegal about our actions in either country and neither you nor I nor anyone else knows what global Islamist terror attacks would have transpired without our intervention. Have you forgotten what a "paradise" Iraq was before we got there:

Human rights in Saddam Hussein s Iraq - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A war of aggression is the supreme international crime, and the US invasion of Iraq proves beyond all doubt how it "contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Evil like IS, for example, or hatchet attacks in NY.

War of aggression - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

As always, you are groping for a way to blame America for the ills which plague Arab/Muslims and as usual nothing could be further from the truth.
There was nothing illegal about our action in Iraq and the current incarnation of Islamism - as practiced by 21st Century Islamists - began some 50 years ago with the decline of the most recent (but hopefully not final) attempt to modernize that death culture.
Call IS what you will but it is simply a continuation - by a newer name - of decades of Islamist oppression and carnage.[/QUOTE]
Iraq posed no threat to the US homeland and Bush fixed all the facts around his policy of invasion which had been decided within days of 911:
"On 1 May 2005, a related UK document known as the Downing Street memo, detailing the minutes of a meeting on 26 July 2002, was apparently leaked to The Sunday Times. The memo recorded the head of the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) as expressing the view following his recent visit to Washington that "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

'It also quoted Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Foreign Secretary) Jack Straw as saying that it was clear that Bush had 'made up his mind' to take military action but that 'the case was thin', and the Attorney-General Goldsmith as warning that justifying the invasion on legal grounds would be difficult."

Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[SAYIT]

There was nothing illegal about our actions in either country and neither you nor I nor anyone else knows what global Islamist terror attacks would have transpired without our intervention. Have you forgotten what a "paradise" Iraq was before we got there:

Human rights in Saddam Hussein s Iraq - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A war of aggression is the supreme international crime, and the US invasion of Iraq proves beyond all doubt how it "contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Evil like IS, for example, or hatchet attacks in NY.

War of aggression - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

As always, you are groping for a way to blame America for the ills which plague Arab/Muslims and as usual nothing could be further from the truth.
There was nothing illegal about our action in Iraq and the current incarnation of Islamism - as practiced by 21st Century Islamists - began some 50 years ago with the decline of the most recent (but hopefully not final) attempt to modernize that death culture.
Call IS what you will but it is simply a continuation - by a newer name - of decades of Islamist oppression and carnage.

Iraq posed no threat to the US homeland and Bush fixed all the facts around his policy of invasion which had been decided within days of 911:
"On 1 May 2005, a related UK document known as the Downing Street memo, detailing the minutes of a meeting on 26 July 2002, was apparently leaked to The Sunday Times. The memo recorded the head of the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) as expressing the view following his recent visit to Washington that "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]

Really? You think that any American should have a prob with that? You are far sicker than I thought. How about this American's view: Bush wanted to shake the Syrian/Iranian tree and figured the best way to do it while also attracting Jihadists, freeing Iraqis from Saddam's yoke and putting our stamp on Gulf oil security was 500,000 boots on the ground in Iraq? As always you seek anything which supports your "America is evil" POV. Go back to Lebanon, !!!