Suicide...a right or not?

[The Illusion]

There are many injustices done to the people of this supposed "free" country. Suicide should be left to the individual. I dont think the government has a right to infringe on the rights of a person to terminate their own life so long as the person that is terminating their own life isnt infringing on the rights of others or making it messy or dangerous for people nearby. I dont think the government should have the authority to step in and make the person be incarcerated due to an act that they feel they would like to commit.

Jamie

 

[dilloduck]

There are many injustices done to the people of this supposed "free" country. Suicide should be left to the individual. I dont think the government has a right to infringe on the rights of a person to terminate their own life so long as the person that is terminating their own life isnt infringing on the rights of others or making it messy or dangerous for people nearby. I dont think the government should have the authority to step in and make the person be incarcerated due to an act that they feel they would like to commit.

Jamie

Don't tell anyone that you feel that way. No problemo

 

[The Illusion]

There are many injustices done to the people of this supposed "free" country. Suicide should be left to the individual. I dont think the government has a right to infringe on the rights of a person to terminate their own life so long as the person that is terminating their own life isnt infringing on the rights of others or making it messy or dangerous for people nearby. I dont think the government should have the authority to step in and make the person be incarcerated due to an act that they feel they would like to commit.

Jamie

Don't tell anyone that you feel that way. No problemo

This is true, but if you seek out a way to do it, attempt it, and fail....then what?

Jamie

 

[Xenophon]

If you want to off yourself, step off a building.

The 'government' can't stop you.

 

[The Illusion]

If you want to off yourself, step off a building.

The 'government' can't stop you.

Im not saying that "I" want to off myself. I am saying that people who do..should have every right to attempt it and succeed without fear of punishment if they fail.

Jamie

 

[Xenophon]

If they 'really' want to do it, its impossible to fail.

Most attempts are pleas for help.

 

[Amanda]

I think people should be allowed to control their own bodies, so sure they should be allowed to, but like Xenophon says, if they really wanted to do it it shouldn't be that hard to succeed so fear of punishment (in this world) shouldn't be much of a deterrent.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There are many injustices done to the people of this supposed "free" country. Suicide should be left to the individual. I dont think the government has a right to infringe on the rights of a person to terminate their own life so long as the person that is terminating their own life isnt infringing on the rights of others or making it messy or dangerous for people nearby. I dont think the government should have the authority to step in and make the person be incarcerated due to an act that they feel they would like to commit.

Jamie

Ok lets go with your exceptions shall we? A parent has responsibilities to their children, suicide would HURT their family and the loss of income and parental support would be a direct HURT to the children. Talk to people that have had a loved one commit suicide.

ANYONE that has living family will be infringing on the rights and feelings of those family members by committing suicide. No matter where they kill themselves or how, the Government will end up picking up the tab ( using our tax dollars) to clean up the mess, recover the body and investigate to ensure it was a suicide.

Suicide is a cowards way out. It is very tempting and would solve some problems for the person killing themselves while creating all kind of problems for those they leave behind.

I have had suicidal thoughts and desires my whole life. I do NOT enjoy life nor living. However I have responsibilities to self, to God, to Family. And by the way almost nothing happens to someone for attempting and failing at suicide. They go to a hospital and are evaluated before being released but no legal action is taken against them in most states.

As for failing and not wanting to succeed that is not always true. I chose to use prescription sleeping pills to kill myself the one time I actually tried. My wife called 911 and they saved me. Believe me I wanted to die.

If the ambulance had not come and they had not pumped my stomach it would have worked. The drugs would have cut off my involuntary muscle reaction to continue breathing while I was passed out.

I gave in one time in all my life and hopefully I will never be that weak again. Suicide is selfish and hurtful. It is wrong. The vast majority of people that kill themselves do so over TEMPORARY problems.

 

[Gudrid]

If we base freedoms on whether they could potentially cost money, we will have no freedoms. Everything can cost in the right situation.

Personally, I think the we are endowed by our Creator "with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." And I think the liberty to end one's own life in pursuit of happiness is a component of freedom. I hope no one chooses such an option, but I think it's everyone's right to do so.

 

[Darkwind]

If they 'really' want to do it, its impossible to fail.

Most attempts are pleas for help.

Yep.

I mean, if your going to kill yourself, what is the government going to do? Arrest your corpse?

 

[Darkwind]

I think people should be allowed to control their own bodies, so sure they should be allowed to, but like Xenophon says, if they really wanted to do it it shouldn't be that hard to succeed so fear of punishment (in this world) shouldn't be much of a deterrent.

So, if I want to control My body to swing a baseball bat and it happens to connect with your head and kill you, government should have no say in that? After all, its My body and I should be able to do whatever I want to do.

BTW. That was an example. Not a threat.

 

[Gudrid]

That's not controlling your own body. That's controlling your own body and someone else's body. It's the second part that makes it government business.

 

[Darkwind]

That's not controlling your own body. That's controlling your own body and someone else's body. It's the second part that makes it government business.

No. The bat does not get swung unless I tell My body to do so. So, unless a Gualud (sp?) has taken over My body and My eyes are glowing.....I'm the only one controlling My body.

 

[Amanda]

I think people should be allowed to control their own bodies, so sure they should be allowed to, but like Xenophon says, if they really wanted to do it it shouldn't be that hard to succeed so fear of punishment (in this world) shouldn't be much of a deterrent.

So, if I want to control My body to swing a baseball bat and it happens to connect with your head and kill you, government should have no say in that? After all, its My body and I should be able to do whatever I want to do.

BTW. That was an example. Not a threat.

Are you seriously putting that out there as an example? Have you been drinking?

If you're serious, in that you don't think we should have complete autonomy over our own bodies, then I hope you enjoy your Obamacare because it sounds like you just endorsed it.

Next time use "abortion is murder" for your example, you could actually get some traction with that. Your example above is absurd.

 

[Darkwind]

I think people should be allowed to control their own bodies, so sure they should be allowed to, but like Xenophon says, if they really wanted to do it it shouldn't be that hard to succeed so fear of punishment (in this world) shouldn't be much of a deterrent.

So, if I want to control My body to swing a baseball bat and it happens to connect with your head and kill you, government should have no say in that? After all, its My body and I should be able to do whatever I want to do.

BTW. That was an example. Not a threat.

Are you seriously putting that out there as an example? Have you been drinking?

If you're serious, in that you don't think we should have complete autonomy over our own bodies, then I hope you enjoy your Obamacare because it sounds like you just endorsed it.

Next time use "abortion is murder" for your example, you could actually get some traction with that. Your example above is absurd.

The bait works every time....LOL

So, your real objection to My example (and contrary to your belief, it is far from absurd) is that the right to use your body to kill others is that it keeps you from killing a baby via abortion....

Is that about right?

 

[Gudrid]

That's not controlling your own body. That's controlling your own body and someone else's body. It's the second part that makes it government business.

No. The bat does not get swung unless I tell My body to do so. So, unless a Gualud (sp?) has taken over My body and My eyes are glowing.....I'm the only one controlling My body.

You are also controlling someone else's body by invading it with a bat. Your rights end where the next person's begin. In your example, you take the person's right to control their own body away from them (unless, of course, they have asked you to hit them with a bat. In which case, you have weird friends.)

 

[Amanda]

So, if I want to control My body to swing a baseball bat and it happens to connect with your head and kill you, government should have no say in that? After all, its My body and I should be able to do whatever I want to do.

BTW. That was an example. Not a threat.

Are you seriously putting that out there as an example? Have you been drinking?

If you're serious, in that you don't think we should have complete autonomy over our own bodies, then I hope you enjoy your Obamacare because it sounds like you just endorsed it.

Next time use "abortion is murder" for your example, you could actually get some traction with that. Your example above is absurd.

The bait works every time....LOL

So, your real objection to My example (and contrary to your belief, it is far from absurd) is that the right to use your body to kill others is that it keeps you from killing a baby via abortion....

Is that about right?

No, not really.

It's not about abortion or any 1 issue to me. I don't think about having an abortion any more than I think about committing suicide. I think about I am the only 1 that is ultimately responsible for me and if I don't have the right to control my own body then I can't be held responsible. Personal responsibility means a lot to me, therefore personal autonomy is an imperative.

I'm not going to derail someone else's thread by making it into an abortion debate. If you want to do that I suggest you start a new thread. But FWIW, I don't believe being anti-abortion is in line with conservative values. Mandating what people can or can't do with their bodies is an authoritarian stance that takes personal responsibility away from the individual. That sort of social coercion is best left to the libs if you ask me. If there's an issue of morality I believe that is between the sinner and their creator. Personally I would never commit suicide or have an abortion, but it should be my choice, not yours or the states.

 

[Darkwind]

That's not controlling your own body. That's controlling your own body and someone else's body. It's the second part that makes it government business.

No. The bat does not get swung unless I tell My body to do so. So, unless a Gualud (sp?) has taken over My body and My eyes are glowing.....I'm the only one controlling My body.

You are also controlling someone else's body by invading it with a bat. Your rights end where the next person's begin. In your example, you take the person's right to control their own body away from them (unless, of course, they have asked you to hit them with a bat. In which case, you have weird friends.)

Really, they can't control their bodies and duck?

 

[Darkwind]

Are you seriously putting that out there as an example? Have you been drinking?

If you're serious, in that you don't think we should have complete autonomy over our own bodies, then I hope you enjoy your Obamacare because it sounds like you just endorsed it.

Next time use "abortion is murder" for your example, you could actually get some traction with that. Your example above is absurd.

The bait works every time....LOL

So, your real objection to My example (and contrary to your belief, it is far from absurd) is that the right to use your body to kill others is that it keeps you from killing a baby via abortion....

Is that about right?

No, not really.

It's not about abortion or any 1 issue to me. I don't think about having an abortion any more than I think about committing suicide. I think about I am the only 1 that is ultimately responsible for me and if I don't have the right to control my own body then I can't be held responsible. Personal responsibility means a lot to me, therefore personal autonomy is an imperative.

I'm not going to derail someone else's thread by making it into an abortion debate. If you want to do that I suggest you start a new thread. But FWIW, I don't believe being anti-abortion is in line with conservative values. Mandating what people can or can't do with their bodies is an authoritarian stance that takes personal responsibility away from the individual. That sort of social coercion is best left to the libs if you ask me. If there's an issue of morality I believe that is between the sinner and their creator. Personally I would never commit suicide or have an abortion, but it should be my choice, not yours or the states.

I don't want to make it into an abortion debate either. But it always comes up.

Everyone has a right to do with their body what they wish....

My point is..

Within reason.

Your right to do with your body what you wish ends when it affects someone else.

Would you agree?

As for the right to commit suicide. Your right. That is between you and whatever God you believe in. After all, the government can't really prevent you if your serious about it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Everyone at some point contemplates offing themselves. However, if they don't succeed, it is the obligation of their living brethren to help them discover the joy in life and the futility and pain of suicide.

Regardless of whether or not it's a "right" is irrelevant. People have the ability and the means to kill themselves, and if they are committed to it, they'll do it.
You can't imprison the dead. If you want to kill yourself, have at.

If you fail, you're going to be evaluated, and treated, however useless it may be in any individual's case. However, in MANY cases; RGS is an example; a failed attempt results in an awakening and the understanding that life is painful, but we have obligations to those who love and depend on us. If you cannot find joy in your own existence, at least try to find joy in the existence of others and do your best to make their existences fulfilling and worthwhile.

My son is grappling with this right now. His best friend killed himself in a hideous manner, and my boy was the one who got to, literally, pick up the pieces left of his childhood friend to save the family the pain. Now my boy has to deal with the guilt and pain associated with being close to a suicide..which includes knowing that person was suicidal, and being unable to prevent it. Likewise, my last association with that young man included a long conversation about suicide, and the many reasons he shouldn't succumb.

What's even worse, is I had almost the exact same conversation with Skyler's little brother the night before the funeral. I give him at the most, 5 years. He's 20. He's bright, he's beautiful, and he just can't internalize the value of his life. His mom's a junkie, his dad was a junkie and was murdered, and his beloved older brother blew his brains out.

Somewhere there's a disconnect, and sometimes we can fix it but most of the time we can't. Does that mean we shouldn't try? We should try. Any kid who talks about or tries to kill himself should be forced into treatment. It could possibly fail, but even if it does, dead is dead, and there's no going back. The hope is that the person who wants to kill himself will realize he's a precious person and deserving of life. You can't force that realization upon someone, but if they're on the precipice and you can pull them back, then it's worth it. If it fails and they kill themselves anyway, there's no loss to the suicide. But if it succeeds, how much more precious is that life?

RGS it kills me every time you write you have no joy in life...because others, including me, have joy in your life. I don't know you...but I am joyful for every life. You're precious, and the pain you suffer is not a solitary pain. There are others in your situation, there are others who have suffered what you suffer, you are not alone, and you are precious. To God and to humans who appreciate life. Your contributions here on this board alone make you worthy of life and your absence would be a great loss. And we're just people who are exposed to you in the most abstract sense! Try to appreciate your own worth, try to internalize it. It's easy to be sucked into thinking your life means nothing, and to think that it's too painful.

But there are people out there who suffer even more, always. If you can reach out to them, as you reach out to people here, then your life is worthwhile, and there is nothing wrong with feeling good about that.

BTW, there's something called ... oh crap, I don't remember...patterning? Where you tell yourself something or make yourself do something over and over, and eventually, your brain attaches to it and it becomes the norm for you. Try it. Honestly, I've seen women in treatment and under psychiatric care do it, and it does work. For example, women who have suffered unspeakable horrors who think they are worthless, and as part of their treatment, they have to spend 5 minutes a day in front of a mirror saying out loud to themselves, "I am beautiful, I am worthwhile." It's gotten a lot of flack, and it's fodder for hilarity (there is so much you can do with that from a comedy aspect) but it really does work. It's one of the few treatments I've witnessed that do. Look in the mirror when you're shaving and say 5 times, "I am a precious person. My life brings joy to others." You might not believe it, but do it anyway, for 2 weeks. Sounds stupid, and you'll feel stupid doing it, but what can it hurt?

Sorry, if you crack up you have to start over. And you have to add "And I'm funny, too."

PS, I'm manic depressive, with anxiety disorder and a history of abuse in a variety of forms. I spent years where I would dream (as in be asleep and actually dream) of killing myself, or have sudden inexplicable impulses to kill myself. I still have anxiety disorder, but have trained myself to appreciate myself and love life. It wasn't easy, and life never ceases to be painful, but at this point in life all I can say is my life is precious, and so is everyone else's. I was put on this earth for a purpose, and killing myself isn't an option. Pain is part of life, and the more pain you survive, the more valuable you are to others who are struggling.

Okay, done rambling. Try not to puke. Try the patterning thing. It really does make a difference.