Zone1 Stop Listening to Thomas Sowell

HURTING THE DISADVANTAGED​

By William Julius Wilson
June 24, 1984

In the year of the 30th anniversary of the landmark Supreme Court decision against racial separation and of the 20th anniversary of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, the economist Thomas Sowell of Stanford University's Hoover Institution reconsiders actions taken in the name of ''civil rights'' since 1954. ''Civil Rights: Rhetoric or Reality?'' is a brutally frank, perceptive and important contribution to the national debate over the means to achieve equality and social justice for minorities and women.

...alternative explanations and hypotheses are not sufficiently explored by Mr. Sowell. This is perhaps most clearly revealed in his critique of affirmative action programs.

Mr. Sowell links the deteriorating plight of the most disadvantaged segments of the minority population to the era of affirmative action pressure. He argues that such pressure increases the demand for highly qualified minority members but decreases the demand for the less qualified because of the cost, particularly at times of discharge and promotion. However, the decline in the socioeconomic status of the less qualified may have had nothing at all to do with affirmative action programs. I say this because the truly disadvantgaged minority members have been particularly burdened by changes in the economy since the late 1960's.

Indeed, recent studies have revealed that minorities are disproportionately represented in industries that have had the largest number of job losses due to economic cutbacks, plant closings and the relocation of firms. Moreover, the harmful effects of the drastic decline in central city industries that employ a substantial proportion of young workers have been concentrated among black males. These changes were most evident during a period that just happens to coincide with ''the era of affirmative action'' - a period that was also plagued by recessions that intensified the miseries of disadvantaged workers. By mainly concentrating on cultural, demographic and geographic factors to challenge the cause and effect assumptions of the civil rights vision, Mr. Sowell ignores the problems of the American economy as it furthers the gap between the haves and have-nots. It could be that the most important criticism of the civil rights vision is that it fails to consider, as does Mr. Sowell, what is perhaps the gravest racial problem of all today - obstacles to the economic advancement of the truly disadvantaged created by the changing organization of our economy.



William Julius Wilson (born December 20, 1935) is an American sociologist. He is a professor at Harvard University and author of works on urban sociology, race and class issues. Laureate of the National Medal of Science, he served as the 80th President of the American Sociological Association, was a member of numerous national boards and commissions. He identified the importance of neighborhood effects and demonstrated how limited employment opportunities and weakened institutional resources exacerbated poverty within American inner-city neighborhoods.

Thomas Sowell’s Arguments on Race​

Thomas Sowell has some weird arguments about race that he has spread to many people. His fans are dogmatic, no less so than SJW’s, and their views need to be confronted with the relevant facts instead of being ignored.

In Conclusion​

Anybody concerned with the relevant science will not entertain such foolishness. This sort of argument is one made by people who know nothing about anything and merely wish to stall debate. This is what I call an attempted “epistemological filibuster.” There is no evidence to support the culture claims, but there are lines of evidence that suggest he is wrong. Such views must be debated. There is no room for absolutely pseudoscientific views to be welcomed in public discourse — there is no reason to hate the people that absorbed these bad views, but you do need confront the views for their complete lack of merit.


That article is 40 years old.
 

Thomas Sowell’s Arguments on Race​

Thomas Sowell has some weird arguments about race that he has spread to many people. His fans are dogmatic, no less so than SJW’s, and their views need to be confronted with the relevant facts instead of being ignored.
What's "dogmatic" mean in this context? If dogmatic means:
  • Getting an education
  • Getting a Job
  • Finding a spouse
  • Starting a family
  • Teaching your children proper manners, etiquette, and social responsibility
  • Not banging other women/men/trans...
  • Gaining professional or technical skills that contribute to one's own professional equity so you can leverage your skills for higher wages; Promotions etc
  • Living in your means
  • Saving money
  • Having personal culpability and responsibility and not blaming other for lack of success
  • Not stealing
  • Not lying
  • Respecting others
  • Respecting authority
  • Respecting other's property
  • See every human as a human regardless of race, sex, ethnicity
  • Respecting others
  • Treating other as you would like to be treated
Consider me dogmatic.
 
What's "dogmatic" mean in this context? If dogmatic means:
  • Getting an education
  • Getting a Job
  • Finding a spouse
  • Starting a family
  • Teaching your children proper manners, etiquette, and social responsibility
  • Not banging other women/men/trans...
  • Gaining professional or technical skills that contribute to one's own professional equity so you can leverage your skills for higher wages; Promotions etc
  • Living in your means
  • Saving money
  • Having personal culpability and responsibility and not blaming other for lack of success
  • Not stealing
  • Not lying
  • Respecting others
  • Respecting authority
  • Respecting other's property
  • See every human as a human regardless of race, sex, ethnicity
  • Respecting others
  • Treating other as you would like to be treated
Consider me dogmatic.
Send this list to the BoD of the Smithsonian’s Museum of African American History. They can add some of them to their “Traits of Whiteness” display that listed traits that lead to success.
 
With all due respect, Ms. Turquoise? I'm rather well read. A couple newspapers a day and I didn't have a clue who either was even AFTER I Googled them so it's obvious to me that they DON"T have a good sized following at all! So my question to you is...who's telling you that they do?
If you really googled them, you'd have seen results for them.
 
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Reactions: IM2
The fact I am black and see thhat such things are not true supersedes your opinion which is not based on lived reality, but is steeped in racism.
Yeah ... but my name's Jackson ... so there is that. But isn't Thomas Sowell black as well? I'll call and raise a hundred.
 
Yeah ... but my name's Jackson ... so there is that. But isn't Thomas Sowell black as well? I'll call and raise a hundred.
And Sowell's opinion is wrong. You would be wise to put that hundred back in your pocket.

BestShot.jpg
 
At this point does anyone here really think that IM2 is even "black"? He pretends to be rich and successful. He pretends to be well educated. Doesn't it stand to reason that he's probably pretending to be black as well?
 
At this point does anyone here really think that IM2 is even "black"? He pretends to be rich and successful. He pretends to be well educated. Doesn't it stand to reason that he's probably pretending to be black as well?
The question is….who is he REALLY? Clearly the mods are bending over backwards to accommodate him. They even created a “safe space” for him to spew his venom. Very odd.
 
The question is….who is he REALLY? Clearly the mods are bending over backwards to accommodate him. They even created a “safe space” for him to spew his venom. Very odd.
I don’t think the Mods bend over backwards for him. They just feel like most of the white posters, that he is mentally deficient and is to be pitied.
 
Thomas Sowell is not some great independent thinker delivering blacks some kind of truth we do not want to accept. He's a black man who panders to white racists to earn a living.

A Critique of Thomas Sowell​

View attachment 775709

Given the gargantuan volume of Sowell’s popular writing, I’m going to need to focus on the central cluster of claims Sowell is known for. This is essentially aggregated from a variety of Sowell’s work since much of it is repetitive — the primary books I’m addressing are Discrimination and Disparities and Black Rednecks, White Liberals, combined with the vast expanse of Sowell video interviews and clips available on the Internet. I’ve broken down what I see to be this central cluster into its constitutive claims in order to deal with them in sequence:
  1. Disparities do not prove discrimination, particularly pertaining to Black-White economic inequality in the US.
  2. Black Americans, especially the worst-off living in urban centres, have a “redneck” culture that was handed to them by White southerners via Britain. It is this culture that produces bad behavioural patterns, such as crime and single parenthood.
  3. These behavioural patterns are exacerbated by the interventions of the welfare state.
  4. It is these behavioural patterns from the combination of culture and welfare that lead to Black-White economic inequality.
  5. Black people are blameworthy for their inequality-producing behaviour.
Each of these claims, as well as the argument as a whole, are riddled with problems of argumentative logic and empirical evidence. In many cases even just one of them would tank the entire enterprise; the sum of all of them is utterly damning. Even in my semi premature academic studies, I am able to conceptualize what affects the black community better than this so-called ‘economist’.

Discrimination and Disparities​

Sowell is correct that intentional racial discrimination (according to Sowell’s classification, Discrimination 1 and 2) at a given juncture — say, racial discrimination by an employer — cannot fully explain Black-White racial disparities in economic outcomes. It does not follow, however, that therefore the remaining racial disparity not explained by acute racial discrimination is not caused by racism in society. Sowell concludes that, for instance, employers and realtors and bankers will make choices about hiring or real estate or loans based on the relevant qualities the individual brings to the table, such as education, credit scores, criminal or eviction history, and so on (this is what he calls Discrimination). People have differences in the quantity and quality of these they can bring to the table, and thus it is perfectly reasonable to find inequalities in economic outcomes.
What is not answered by this, however, is why these inequalities would be unevenly distributed by race.


Why Do People Love Thomas Sowell?

Thomas Sowell, I think it is fair to say, is first and foremost a pundit. He has made his career less on scholarly arguments accountable to the rigorous critique of his peers and more on quotable quips, book-length tirades, and debate clap lines for the adulation of his libertarian fans and conservative think tank colleagues — especially claiming to be an ex-Marxist who ‘saw the light”. Even though his arguments are hollow when you knock on them, Sowell presents his arguments with confidence and frames the story as being one of an incompetent, mean-spirited economic left against a ‘sensible’, objective, evidence-based economic right. When that is a story you already believe, Sowell’s arguments appear compelling, and his demeanour is confident and charismatic. But ultimately, Sowell is better at rhetorical flourish than thoughtful empirical analysis or philosophical consistency.

Go look in the mirror and you'll find the racist.
 
Let's consider Sowell's opinion here.

The Scapegoat for Strife in the Black Community​

Turning back to the “legacy of slavery” as an explanation of social problems in black American communities today, anyone who was serious about the truth — as distinguished from talking points — would want to check out the facts.

Were children raised with only one parent as common at any time during the first 100 years after slavery as in the first 30 years after the great expansion of the welfare state in the 1960s?

As of 1960, 22 percent of black children were raised with only one parent, usually the mother. Thirty years later, two-thirds of black children were being raised without a father present.



Now let's examine Sowell's opinion with statistical data.

In 1959, the poverty rate for all American families was 20.8 percent. For white families, it was 16.5 percent. For black families, it was 54.9 percent. During the time people declared that black families were “intact,” black family poverty was 3.33 times that of white ones.

In 2020, the poverty rate for all American families was 9.5 percent. Poverty for black families was 17.4 percent, and for white families it was 8.2 percent. Despite increases in educational attainment and breakthroughs at every level of American society, in 2020, black family poverty remained two times that of white families. The so-called expansion of the welfare state doesn't have a damn thing to do with what blacks face right now.

U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 1960 to 2021 AnnualSocial and Economic Supplements (CPS ASEC). Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 1959 to 2020, http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/ poverty/data/historical/people.htm

And exactly what are we referring to when people talk about the expansion of the Welfare state?.

Because welfare in some form has existed in this country since 1910.

The Social Security Act of 1935 created the Social Security program, state unemployment insurance, and assistance to single women with children.

Let’s talk about the assistance to single women with children part of the Social Security Act. Title IV provided grants to states as Aid To Dependent Children. Eventually, the name of the program was changed to Aid to Families with Dependent Children. This was welfare folks. Assistance for single moms with children and no daddy at home. In 1935. Blacks were excluded.

Aid to Dependent Children functioned mainly to provide federal grants to help the states with mothers’ aid laws that began in 1910. The ADC plan was written by two ladies who had been former directors of what was at the time called the U.S. Children’s Bureau. The Children’s Bureau’s goal was to provide aid to all children whose mothers had no support from a husband no matter how they got into that position. From the Children’s Bureau in 1910 until 1965, no one talked about how the welfare state was wrong and created the disintegration of the white family. I read no lectures about the irresponsible white father. The program was not denigrated as something creating dependence on government; it was seen as essential assistance needed to help women without husbands who had children. Only when the law required that others besides whites be included did the story change to how the welfare state was wrong and destructive.

A second look at Social Security’s racist origins, Washington Post, June 3, 2013, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cond-look-at-social-securitys-racist-origins/

Linda Gordon and Felice Batlan, The Legal History of the Aid to Dependent Children Program, https://socialwelfare.library.vcu.edu/public-welfare/aid-todependent-children-the-legal-history/

So what white racists have basically argued is that America was doing just fine while whites were the only ones getting welfare. And Sowells dumb ass co signs it with his stupidity.

In 1939, during this time of great black two-parent families, the poverty rate for employed married black couples was 89 percent. Despite black poverty being so high, blacks were excluded from the program.

Ross, C., Danziger, S. & Smolensky, E. The level and trend of poverty in the United States, 1939–1979. Demography 24, 587–600 (1987). The level and trend of poverty in the United States, 1939–1979 | Demography | Duke University Press

“In 1965, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, attributed racial inequality as well as poverty and crime in the black community to family structure, particularly the prevalence of families headed by single mothers. Not only did research at the time cast doubt on this causality, but evidence over the last the 50 years demonstrates that rates of child poverty, educational attainment, and crime do not track rates of single parenthood. Thus, even though the share of children living with a single mother rose for all racial and ethnic groups through the mid-1990s and has remained high since then, school completion and youth arrests for violent crimes have declined significantly, while poverty rates have fluctuated according to economic conditions. Family structure does not drive racial inequity, and racial inequity persists regardless of family structure.”

Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap, pg.10 https://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/Asset Val ue%20of%20Whiteness_0.pdf

Slavery + Jim Crow + continuing white racism is the problem. Limiting the discussion to slavery is stupid.
 
Let's consider Sowell's opinion here.

The Scapegoat for Strife in the Black Community​

Turning back to the “legacy of slavery” as an explanation of social problems in black American communities today, anyone who was serious about the truth — as distinguished from talking points — would want to check out the facts.

Were children raised with only one parent as common at any time during the first 100 years after slavery as in the first 30 years after the great expansion of the welfare state in the 1960s?

As of 1960, 22 percent of black children were raised with only one parent, usually the mother. Thirty years later, two-thirds of black children were being raised without a father present.



Now let's examine Sowell's opinion with statistical data.

In 1959, the poverty rate for all American families was 20.8 percent. For white families, it was 16.5 percent. For black families, it was 54.9 percent. During the time people declared that black families were “intact,” black family poverty was 3.33 times that of white ones.

In 2020, the poverty rate for all American families was 9.5 percent. Poverty for black families was 17.4 percent, and for white families it was 8.2 percent. Despite increases in educational attainment and breakthroughs at every level of American society, in 2020, black family poverty remained two times that of white families. The so-called expansion of the welfare state doesn't have a damn thing to do with what blacks face right now.

U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 1960 to 2021 AnnualSocial and Economic Supplements (CPS ASEC). Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 1959 to 2020, http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/ poverty/data/historical/people.htm

And exactly what are we referring to when people talk about the expansion of the Welfare state?.

Because welfare in some form has existed in this country since 1910.

The Social Security Act of 1935 created the Social Security program, state unemployment insurance, and assistance to single women with children.

Let’s talk about the assistance to single women with children part of the Social Security Act. Title IV provided grants to states as Aid To Dependent Children. Eventually, the name of the program was changed to Aid to Families with Dependent Children. This was welfare folks. Assistance for single moms with children and no daddy at home. In 1935. Blacks were excluded.

Aid to Dependent Children functioned mainly to provide federal grants to help the states with mothers’ aid laws that began in 1910. The ADC plan was written by two ladies who had been former directors of what was at the time called the U.S. Children’s Bureau. The Children’s Bureau’s goal was to provide aid to all children whose mothers had no support from a husband no matter how they got into that position. From the Children’s Bureau in 1910 until 1965, no one talked about how the welfare state was wrong and created the disintegration of the white family. I read no lectures about the irresponsible white father. The program was not denigrated as something creating dependence on government; it was seen as essential assistance needed to help women without husbands who had children. Only when the law required that others besides whites be included did the story change to how the welfare state was wrong and destructive.

A second look at Social Security’s racist origins, Washington Post, June 3, 2013, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cond-look-at-social-securitys-racist-origins/

Linda Gordon and Felice Batlan, The Legal History of the Aid to Dependent Children Program, https://socialwelfare.library.vcu.edu/public-welfare/aid-todependent-children-the-legal-history/

So what white racists have basically argued is that America was doing just fine while whites were the only ones getting welfare. And Sowells dumb ass co signs it with his stupidity.

In 1939, during this time of great black two-parent families, the poverty rate for employed married black couples was 89 percent. Despite black poverty being so high, blacks were excluded from the program.

Ross, C., Danziger, S. & Smolensky, E. The level and trend of poverty in the United States, 1939–1979. Demography 24, 587–600 (1987). The level and trend of poverty in the United States, 1939–1979 | Demography | Duke University Press

“In 1965, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, attributed racial inequality as well as poverty and crime in the black community to family structure, particularly the prevalence of families headed by single mothers. Not only did research at the time cast doubt on this causality, but evidence over the last the 50 years demonstrates that rates of child poverty, educational attainment, and crime do not track rates of single parenthood. Thus, even though the share of children living with a single mother rose for all racial and ethnic groups through the mid-1990s and has remained high since then, school completion and youth arrests for violent crimes have declined significantly, while poverty rates have fluctuated according to economic conditions. Family structure does not drive racial inequity, and racial inequity persists regardless of family structure.”

Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap, pg.10 https://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/Asset Val ue%20of%20Whiteness_0.pdf

Slavery + Jim Crow + continuing white racism is the problem. Limiting the discussion to slavery is stupid.
You’re way too wordy. You expect people to slog through all that? Just summarize.
 

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