Zone1 Stop Listening to Thomas Sowell

[BackAgain]

You’re way too wordy. You expect people to slog through all that? Just summarize.

Maybe he gets paid by the (unread) word.

 

[MarathonMike]

Thomas Sowell is not some great independent thinker delivering blacks some kind of truth we do not want to accept. He's a black man who panders to white racists to earn a living.

A Critique of Thomas Sowell​

View attachment 775709

Given the gargantuan volume of Sowell’s popular writing, I’m going to need to focus on the central cluster of claims Sowell is known for. This is essentially aggregated from a variety of Sowell’s work since much of it is repetitive — the primary books I’m addressing are Discrimination and Disparities and Black Rednecks, White Liberals, combined with the vast expanse of Sowell video interviews and clips available on the Internet. I’ve broken down what I see to be this central cluster into its constitutive claims in order to deal with them in sequence:

1. Disparities do not prove discrimination, particularly pertaining to Black-White economic inequality in the US.
2. Black Americans, especially the worst-off living in urban centres, have a “redneck” culture that was handed to them by White southerners via Britain. It is this culture that produces bad behavioural patterns, such as crime and single parenthood.
3. These behavioural patterns are exacerbated by the interventions of the welfare state.
4. It is these behavioural patterns from the combination of culture and welfare that lead to Black-White economic inequality.
5. Black people are blameworthy for their inequality-producing behaviour.

Each of these claims, as well as the argument as a whole, are riddled with problems of argumentative logic and empirical evidence. In many cases even just one of them would tank the entire enterprise; the sum of all of them is utterly damning. Even in my semi premature academic studies, I am able to conceptualize what affects the black community better than this so-called ‘economist’.

Discrimination and Disparities​

Sowell is correct that intentional racial discrimination (according to Sowell’s classification, Discrimination 1 and 2) at a given juncture — say, racial discrimination by an employer — cannot fully explain Black-White racial disparities in economic outcomes. It does not follow, however, that therefore the remaining racial disparity not explained by acute racial discrimination is not caused by racism in society. Sowell concludes that, for instance, employers and realtors and bankers will make choices about hiring or real estate or loans based on the relevant qualities the individual brings to the table, such as education, credit scores, criminal or eviction history, and so on (this is what he calls Discrimination). People have differences in the quantity and quality of these they can bring to the table, and thus it is perfectly reasonable to find inequalities in economic outcomes.
What is not answered by this, however, is why these inequalities would be unevenly distributed by race.

Why Do People Love Thomas Sowell?

Thomas Sowell, I think it is fair to say, is first and foremost a pundit. He has made his career less on scholarly arguments accountable to the rigorous critique of his peers and more on quotable quips, book-length tirades, and debate clap lines for the adulation of his libertarian fans and conservative think tank colleagues — especially claiming to be an ex-Marxist who ‘saw the light”. Even though his arguments are hollow when you knock on them, Sowell presents his arguments with confidence and frames the story as being one of an incompetent, mean-spirited economic left against a ‘sensible’, objective, evidence-based economic right. When that is a story you already believe, Sowell’s arguments appear compelling, and his demeanour is confident and charismatic. But ultimately, Sowell is better at rhetorical flourish than thoughtful empirical analysis or philosophical consistency.

https://goog.ascryingforth.com/?tid=952429&u=64831224288522739&agec=1661157662&urid=168127593980611982&q=what+blacks+say+about+thomas+sowell&ref=bing

Why do Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele evoke such anger and hatred in you? Are they perhaps a threat to your fundamental beliefs in White Racism and Black victim hood?

 

[MarathonMike]

You’re way too wordy. You expect people to slog through all that? Just summarize.

You can always summarize his posts with "Whitey Bad, Black people are victims, Black conservatives are liars".

 

[Markle]

Let's consider Sowell's opinion here.

Still playing the black sock I see.

 

[Grumblenuts]

You can always summarize

One can always summarize racist posts with "Be a good house n----- like Sowell, IM2. Now take the garbage down to the road, then keep smiling like a deranged monkey there as you hold the hurricane lamp high until bedtime."

 

[IM2]

I will continue showing the flaws in Sowells opinion. Racist whites love him because he enables their mental sickness. But the truth is that Sowell is full of......

 

[MarathonMike]

I will continue showing the flaws in Sowells opinion. Racist whites love him because he enables their mental sickness. But the truth is that Sowell is full of......

One of my favorite Thomas Sowell quotes:

Black victimhood pushed by Democrats has been more damaging to Black people than slavery.

 

[BackAgain]

I will continue showing the flaws in Sowells opinion. Racist whites love him because he enables their mental sickness. But the truth is that Sowell is full of......

To “continue,” you’d have to someday start.

So much for that idea lil im.2

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I read the thread title and I KNEW IM2 was the author

 

[MarathonMike]

I read the thread title and I KNEW IM2 was the author

Nothing triggers our friend like Thomas Sowell or Shelby Steele. They are the antithesis of everything he clings to.

 

[Lisa558]

Nothing triggers our friend like Thomas Sowell or Shelby Steele. They are the antithesis of everything he clings to.

He and others like him HATE any black (or white) who refuses to blame whitey for blacks’ poorer outcomes - and suggests that they are responsible for their own choices in life.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

This thread is the highest recommendation I have ever seen.

If IM2 hates the Sowell, he MUST be brilliant!

 

[Hector12]

Thomas Sowell is not some great independent thinker delivering blacks some kind of truth we do not want to accept. He's a black man who panders to white racists to earn a living.

A Critique of Thomas Sowell​

View attachment 775709

Given the gargantuan volume of Sowell’s popular writing, I’m going to need to focus on the central cluster of claims Sowell is known for. This is essentially aggregated from a variety of Sowell’s work since much of it is repetitive — the primary books I’m addressing are Discrimination and Disparities and Black Rednecks, White Liberals, combined with the vast expanse of Sowell video interviews and clips available on the Internet. I’ve broken down what I see to be this central cluster into its constitutive claims in order to deal with them in sequence:

1. Disparities do not prove discrimination, particularly pertaining to Black-White economic inequality in the US.

Blacks are not discriminated against any more. They are discriminated against because of affirmative action programs. Trillions of white tax dollars have been spent on anti poverty programs designed to help blacks.

 

[Hector12]

1. Black Americans, especially the worst-off living in urban centres, have a “redneck” culture that was handed to them by White southerners via Britain. It is this culture that produces bad behavioural patterns, such as crime and single parenthood.

I agree that Thomas Sowell is mistaken here.

Thomas Sowell is blaming whites for problems that are endemic to blacks. "Rednecks" so called have never had the rates of crime and illegitimacy that have always characterized blacks.

Low intelligence, crime, and illegitimacy characterized blacks wherever they live, even when they have not had contact with poor British, or poor whites descended from poor British.

 

[Hector12]

1. 
   
2. These behavioural patterns are exacerbated by the interventions of the welfare state.
3. 
   

By supporting illegitimate children and people who choose not to work, the welfare system nurtures dysfunctional behavior. When Aid for Families with Dependent Children was introduced during the 1930's it was specifically restricted to widows, deserted wives, and their legitimate children. Unmarried women and their illegitimate children were left to their own devices.

Hispanics who come to the United States illegally frequently have little or no education, and cannot speak English. Nevertheless, they manage to find jobs. These are jobs welfare recipients can perform, and should be expected to perform.

If we eliminate much of the welfare system while increasing the severity of the criminal justice system we will enjoy considerable tax savings, and we will have an easier time policing our borders.

 

[Hector12]

1. It is these behavioural patterns from the combination of culture and welfare that lead to Black-White economic inequality.

Black dysfunction certainly contributes to racial inequality. Poor whites and poor blacks usually respond differently to efforts to help them. New Deal programs turned millions of unemployed whites into a stable working class of tax payers who obeyed the law.

Great Society programs turned millions of low wage blacks into an unemployable underclass, the members of which often supplement their welfare checks with the gains from criminal activity.

From 1966 to 1975 the National Welfare Rights Organization encouraged low income blacks to quit their jobs and go on welfare.

Professor Arthur Jensen of Berkeley gave another explanation for racial inequality:

Jensen: That may be true. But again, I’m wondering about the degree to which differences in basic characteristics may be at the basis of that. Where the differences in basic characteristics are not conspicuous, as in the case of Asians and whites, and when persons can fit in and do the same kinds of jobs and do them as well as anyone else, it may work. See, there are blacks who fit in this way too — who do all right.

But the black population in this country is in a sense burdened by the large number of persons who are at a level of g that is no longer very relevant to a highly industrialized, technological society. Once you get below IQs of 80 or 75, which is the cut-off for mental retardation in the California School System, children are put into special classes. These persons are not really educable up to a level for which there’s any economic demand. The question is, what do you do about them? They have higher birth-rates than the other end of the distribution.

People are shocked and disbelieving when you tell them that about one in four blacks in our population are in that category — below 75.

 

[Hector12]

1. Black people are blameworthy for their inequality-producing behavior.

Only to an extent. People cannot be blamed for being born with low IQ's.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Grow up.
Jenson was a racist pig and lower IQs are not racially heritable.

 

[Hector12]

Grow up.
Jenson was a racist pig and lower IQs are not racially heritable.

"How Much Can We Boost IQ and Achievement?" is a 1969 article by Arthur Jensen published in the Harvard Educational Review.[1] It is among the most controversial[2][3] in American psychology, and was largely responsible for initiating the current debate over race and intelligence.[4][5]
How Much Can We Boost IQ and Scholastic Achievement? - Wikipedia

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Professor Jensen argued that little could be done, regardless of effort and money spent for that purpose. The following website confirms the truth of his article:

A century of research confirms that intelligence is highly heritable, and that members of some races tend to be more intelligent than members of other races.

 

[JoeMoma]

OP, thanks but no thanks regarding your advice as to whom I should listen. I will decide that for myself. I find Thomas Sowell's statements to be rich in both intelligence and common sense.

The OP's dislike and dismissal of Thomas Sowell only increases Sowell's creditability in my book.