kjw47
Gold Member
The religion that came out ofRome changed it. My teachers corrected the errors. The New world translation. Obviously you dont believe Jesus was sent by God to Israel.
Some one please tell me how did they get the holy spirit in the OT ?
- Thread starter Wyatt earp
- Start date
The religion that came out ofRome changed it. My teachers corrected the errors. The New world translation. Obviously you dont believe Jesus was sent by God to Israel.
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
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Jesus was loved. Some people in power thought his proclamations threatened their authority, power, and wealth. This drew the ire of some dangerous people. Jesus doing the will of the Father upset those engaged in matters of their own wills.
More on the "gifts of the Holy Spirit". God knew that the Jews who had accepted Christianity would have a difficult time accepting the truth that disciples like Paul were teaching, that the gentiles were just as eligible to obey the Gospel Truth as were they (the Jews). Thus, the Bible tells us Peter was preaching to Cornelius and his family (Gentiles.....A Roman Soldier), and "the Holy Spirit of God fell upon those who heard the word preached (just as it did on the Day of Pentecost 10 yrs. previous on the Jews) -- Acts 10:44
Some errantly attempt to teach that Salvation does not require Water Baptism that one is saved by Faith only by simply confessing your sins to God, they point to the fact that the Holy Spirit of God (God's power) fell upon Cornelius before he was baptized in water and thus was saved before he was symbolically dead to sin through the act of water (submerged) baptism....before you can symbolically come into contact with the Blood of Christ (through the act of being buried and resurrected...i.e., symbolically). Then they also attempt to point to the thief on the cross as being saved without water baptism.
1st. When Jesus (God incarnate) declared to the thief that "your sins are forgiven........on this day you will be with me in paradise".......the Old Law was still in effect. When God (in person) forgives you of your sin........then you are indeed forgiven and saved. However after the death of Christ.........the New Testament and its Law went into effect and among those laws is the requirement for Water Baptism. As asked before........someone, anyone simply point to any passage in scripture where one is saved and allowed into the church that Christ built....without water baptism. Just one example. There is none. Unless, God personally declares that your sins are forgiven then one must use the keys to the kingdom that was used by Peter to enter the kingdom of God, i.e., the church that Christ built. and that requires water baptism just as declared by Peter when he first used those keys in the book of Acts 2.
2nd. The Holy Spirit of God (the power of God) falling upon people that clearly were not saved is recorded in numerous places throughout the scriptures. Peter simply referred to receiving this Gift of the Spirit (the power from God) as being Baptized (submerged) in God's power through the Spirit of God.
As pointed out.........throughout the Bible, we see that the miraculous powers bestowed upon individuals by the Holy Spirit that was not used as proof as one's salvation, centuries before Jesus was even born.
For instance, in the Book of 1 Samuel, we learn first about the king of Israel, King Saul. He was chosen by God to be King.....but when he started to make poor decisions not based upon advice from the Spirit of God.....when he became jealous of David and attempted to have him killed, we can read how, "The Spirit of the Lord departed (the power of God) from Saul." -- 1 Samuel 16:14.
Saul's twisted jealousy even lead to the death of an entire city of the Lord's priests. When he (Saul) was chasing David in order to kill him, he (Saul) heard that David with with the prophet Samuel in the city of Ramah, Saul sent messengers to capture David and take him by force, but when they (the messengers sent by Saul) came into the city, "THE SPIRIT OF GOD CAME UPON THE MESSENGERS OF SAUL, and they prophesied." When Saul was told of this........he sent other messengers and they prophesied as well. -- 1 Sam. 19:20-21
Take note........because the Spirit of God came upon these messengers sent to take David by force.......did not mean they were Saved.
Some errantly attempt to teach that Salvation does not require Water Baptism that one is saved by Faith only by simply confessing your sins to God, they point to the fact that the Holy Spirit of God (God's power) fell upon Cornelius before he was baptized in water and thus was saved before he was symbolically dead to sin through the act of water (submerged) baptism....before you can symbolically come into contact with the Blood of Christ (through the act of being buried and resurrected...i.e., symbolically). Then they also attempt to point to the thief on the cross as being saved without water baptism.
1st. When Jesus (God incarnate) declared to the thief that "your sins are forgiven........on this day you will be with me in paradise".......the Old Law was still in effect. When God (in person) forgives you of your sin........then you are indeed forgiven and saved. However after the death of Christ.........the New Testament and its Law went into effect and among those laws is the requirement for Water Baptism. As asked before........someone, anyone simply point to any passage in scripture where one is saved and allowed into the church that Christ built....without water baptism. Just one example. There is none. Unless, God personally declares that your sins are forgiven then one must use the keys to the kingdom that was used by Peter to enter the kingdom of God, i.e., the church that Christ built. and that requires water baptism just as declared by Peter when he first used those keys in the book of Acts 2.
2nd. The Holy Spirit of God (the power of God) falling upon people that clearly were not saved is recorded in numerous places throughout the scriptures. Peter simply referred to receiving this Gift of the Spirit (the power from God) as being Baptized (submerged) in God's power through the Spirit of God.
As pointed out.........throughout the Bible, we see that the miraculous powers bestowed upon individuals by the Holy Spirit that was not used as proof as one's salvation, centuries before Jesus was even born.
For instance, in the Book of 1 Samuel, we learn first about the king of Israel, King Saul. He was chosen by God to be King.....but when he started to make poor decisions not based upon advice from the Spirit of God.....when he became jealous of David and attempted to have him killed, we can read how, "The Spirit of the Lord departed (the power of God) from Saul." -- 1 Samuel 16:14.
Saul's twisted jealousy even lead to the death of an entire city of the Lord's priests. When he (Saul) was chasing David in order to kill him, he (Saul) heard that David with with the prophet Samuel in the city of Ramah, Saul sent messengers to capture David and take him by force, but when they (the messengers sent by Saul) came into the city, "THE SPIRIT OF GOD CAME UPON THE MESSENGERS OF SAUL, and they prophesied." When Saul was told of this........he sent other messengers and they prophesied as well. -- 1 Sam. 19:20-21
Take note........because the Spirit of God came upon these messengers sent to take David by force.......did not mean they were Saved.
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kjw47
Gold Member
Yes they lacked love. They never broke the law except out of hatred for Jesus. In Israelite law from God a man had 7 days to build a defense. They tried Jesus the night he was arrested they hated him so much.
DudleySmith
Diamond Member
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Go with Aramaic first. There is a reason Jewish scholars mostly went to Greek around 300-200 B.C. or so, and Aramaic was just as prevalent in Jewish writings re the OT. Not many Jews were were using Hebrew by the Christian era.
How difficult is the Aramaic language?
Answer (1 of 4): Easy if you're born into an Assyrian household who only spoke Assyrian neo-Aramaic/neo-Syriac at home, like the one I grew up in. I have had very little schooling in it but I can speak it and read it pretty fluently. A big issue is vocabulary because the dictionaries available ar...
If you’re interested in ancient history, you may want to study Ancient and/or Imperial Aramaic (though it’s advised to learn another form of Aramaic before diving into this one). If your interest in Aramaic stems from a wish to understand the Aramaic chapters of the Hebrew Bible, you will want to focus on Biblical Aramaic. If you’re interested in Syriac Christian religious literature and hymns, you should study Classical Syriac. If you’re interested in studying the Babylonian Talmud, you’ll have to study Jewish Babylonian Aramaic.
What is the difference between Aramaic and Hebrew?
Answer (1 of 31): Er norsk så forskjellig fra det engelske språket? If you can understand that as an English speaker who doesn’t speak Norwegian, a Hebrew speaker can understand Aramaic. The differences between the two languages are similar in nature: the two languages share a common origin, an...
I speak/read/write both Hebrew and Aramaic fluently.
Both are members of the Northwest Semitic language group. They are sister languages. Both are written in the derivative Aramaic script named in the Talmud as “Ktav Ashuri”(literally, “Assyrian Writing”).
Hebrew was basically a mystery cult language by the Roman era. Greek and Aramaic dominated scholarship. Few Jews read it or spoke it.
Indeependent
Diamond Member
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Hebrew was, and is, never used when not learning Torah or praying; it is considered a Holy Tongue not fit for idle chatter or commerce.Go with Aramaic first. There is a reason Jewish scholars mostly went to Greek around 300-200 B.C. or so, and Aramaic was just as prevalent in Jewish writings re the OT. Not many Jews were were using Hebrew by the Christian era.
How difficult is the Aramaic language?
Answer (1 of 4): Easy if you're born into an Assyrian household who only spoke Assyrian neo-Aramaic/neo-Syriac at home, like the one I grew up in. I have had very little schooling in it but I can speak it and read it pretty fluently. A big issue is vocabulary because the dictionaries available ar...www.quora.com
If you’re interested in ancient history, you may want to study Ancient and/or Imperial Aramaic (though it’s advised to learn another form of Aramaic before diving into this one). If your interest in Aramaic stems from a wish to understand the Aramaic chapters of the Hebrew Bible, you will want to focus on Biblical Aramaic. If you’re interested in Syriac Christian religious literature and hymns, you should study Classical Syriac. If you’re interested in studying the Babylonian Talmud, you’ll have to study Jewish Babylonian Aramaic.
What is the difference between Aramaic and Hebrew?
Answer (1 of 31): Er norsk så forskjellig fra det engelske språket? If you can understand that as an English speaker who doesn’t speak Norwegian, a Hebrew speaker can understand Aramaic. The differences between the two languages are similar in nature: the two languages share a common origin, an...
I speak/read/write both Hebrew and Aramaic fluently.
Both are members of the Northwest Semitic language group. They are sister languages. Both are written in the derivative Aramaic script named in the Talmud as “Ktav Ashuri”(literally, “Assyrian Writing”).
Hebrew was basically a mystery cult language by the Roman era. Greek and Aramaic dominated scholarship. Few Jews read it or spoke it.
In fact, there is a controversy over whether or not Israelis should speak in Hebrew.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
I'm pretty sure Jesus knew who He was:
He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father;
And Hob, that is not a 2-edged sword. It is a reference to 2 different swords. What you are quoting refers to The Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Jesus the Warrior. All nations will be coming against Israel shortly, and Christ will be kicking our asses and then passing judgement on the nations, depending on their treatment of God's chosen people.
The other is a warning to humans. Live a violent life, die a violent life. Love, is Christ's alternative to violence.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
It was prophesied that the Jews would restore the ancient language in the End Times. And they did. No other displaced people have ever resurrected their original language, but one. The Jews.
"For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the name of the Lord..." Zep. 3:9
And they will greet their Messiah, Jesus, in Hebrew when He returns:
Barach Haba B'Shem Adonai.
"For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the name of the Lord..." Zep. 3:9
And they will greet their Messiah, Jesus, in Hebrew when He returns:
Barach Haba B'Shem Adonai.
DudleySmith
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Re the 'original Hebrew', what they use now was a late invention by rabbinical Judaism, not the 'Hebrew' of Moses.
jewishbelief.com
The Talmud recognizes the fact that the Hebrew we have today isn’t the same as it always was and addresses the issue in Sanhedrin 21b among other places. Essentially, there is a three-way dispute. The first opinion is as we said. The Torah was originally given in the ancient Hebrew language, known as ksav ivri in Talmudic terms, and in the times of Ezra the Jews adapted the modern Hebrew script known as ksav ashuris in Talmudic terms. The second opinion is that the Torah is that the script was always the script as we have it now. And the third opinion is that the Torah was given in the script we have now but afterwards it was forgotten and they began writing in the ancient Hebrew script. In the times of Ezra, they reinstituted the modern Hebrew script.
Archaeology confirms the first opinion over and over again. The third opinion seems unfitting and baseless to begin with. Some suggest that the ancient Hebrew script was used for mundane documents and the Hebrew script as we have it now was used for holy documents as the Torah. But this theory is very unlikely for several reasons. First off, there’s no reason to say this novel idea that isn’t attested to anywhere in ancient documents in Israel. Secondly, as far as archaeology is concerned, the modern Hebrew script wasn’t invented until several centuries after the giving of the Torah at Sinai. Third of all, many scrolls were found that imply otherwise. These Second Temple era scrolls are written in modern Hebrew alphabet or in Greek but when they come to writing the Name of God, they replace it with the ancient Hebrew script. This is the very opposite of what this theory is suggesting. It is rather clear that the strict laws in the writing of a Torah that we have today (known as safrut) was the invention of post-Second-Temple era rabbis, as we shall now discuss.[1]
... and more at the link, along with embedded links on assorted topics. The 'Orthodox Judaism' of today has little resemblance to the pre-exilic Judaism of Moses; Christianity is actually about 100 yeas older than modern 'Judaism', and of course the Pharisees also invented the 'Oral Law' fiction that adds to the ancient Mosaic texts.
Is the Torah’s Text Accurate? - Rethinking Jewish Belief
Exploring the Masoretic, Samaritan, and Septuagint versions of Torah, and the development of Hebrew from the original ksav ivri.
jewishbelief.com
The Talmud recognizes the fact that the Hebrew we have today isn’t the same as it always was and addresses the issue in Sanhedrin 21b among other places. Essentially, there is a three-way dispute. The first opinion is as we said. The Torah was originally given in the ancient Hebrew language, known as ksav ivri in Talmudic terms, and in the times of Ezra the Jews adapted the modern Hebrew script known as ksav ashuris in Talmudic terms. The second opinion is that the Torah is that the script was always the script as we have it now. And the third opinion is that the Torah was given in the script we have now but afterwards it was forgotten and they began writing in the ancient Hebrew script. In the times of Ezra, they reinstituted the modern Hebrew script.
Archaeology confirms the first opinion over and over again. The third opinion seems unfitting and baseless to begin with. Some suggest that the ancient Hebrew script was used for mundane documents and the Hebrew script as we have it now was used for holy documents as the Torah. But this theory is very unlikely for several reasons. First off, there’s no reason to say this novel idea that isn’t attested to anywhere in ancient documents in Israel. Secondly, as far as archaeology is concerned, the modern Hebrew script wasn’t invented until several centuries after the giving of the Torah at Sinai. Third of all, many scrolls were found that imply otherwise. These Second Temple era scrolls are written in modern Hebrew alphabet or in Greek but when they come to writing the Name of God, they replace it with the ancient Hebrew script. This is the very opposite of what this theory is suggesting. It is rather clear that the strict laws in the writing of a Torah that we have today (known as safrut) was the invention of post-Second-Temple era rabbis, as we shall now discuss.[1]
... and more at the link, along with embedded links on assorted topics. The 'Orthodox Judaism' of today has little resemblance to the pre-exilic Judaism of Moses; Christianity is actually about 100 yeas older than modern 'Judaism', and of course the Pharisees also invented the 'Oral Law' fiction that adds to the ancient Mosaic texts.
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The Holy Spirit is given to man in varying degrees. All mankind are born with a portion of the Holy Spirit.
John 1:9
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.The Holy Spirit is a portion of the glory of God. It is a receipt of God's divine glory into our souls. It is light and truth. We can either chase that spirit out of our lives or we can gain more and more of the spirit into our lives. When one accepts more of the spirit of God into his/her life, they are given the opportunity to receive even more. When one receives the word of God and acts upon it by obeying the word of God and living according to his teachings, he/she is then able to receive a greater portion of the Holy Spirit. When one accepts the teachings of God and joins His true church, through the priesthood of God, one is given the gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift of the Holy Ghost is a promise that when one receives the gospel and repents of his/her sins, they are promised a higher degree of the Holy Spirit. This higher degree of the Holy Spirit is administered through the 3rd personage of the Godhead known as the Holy Ghost. Once a person has received the Holy Ghost into their lives they can realize the gifts of the spirit that God has foreordained unto them to receive. Once one receives the ordinance of the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands and receives the Holy Spirit into his/her life, spiritual gifts begin to be manifest in their lives. This is the process of being born again.
Luke 11:36
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.Acts 8:15-20
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.The authority to confer the gift of the Holy Ghost upon the heads of others is a function of the Higher Priesthood or Melchizedek Priesthood. The Aaronic Priesthood does not have this power. When Moses took the children of Israel out of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness, it was the desire of God to have the people experience the presence of God. But the children of Israel were too hard hearted and did not want to enter the presence of God. They told Moses that he could be their representative and to have him only speak with God. This angered the Lord and he took the Holy Priesthood out their midst and only the Aaronic Priesthood or Lesser Priesthood remained. Thus the authority to confer the gift of the Holy Ghost was taken out of their midst until John the Baptist. This is the meaning of the following verse:
2 Corinthians 3:3
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Because the children of Israel had not the gift of the Holy Ghost since the time of Moses until John, all they had were the tables of stone. But after the days of John, the gospel was written on the fleshy tables of the heart. This was because Jesus conferred the Higher Priesthood or Melchizedek Priesthood upon his disciples who were then able to confer the gift of the Holy Ghost. Before the days of Moses, the gift of the Holy Ghost was had among the children of God. Afterwards only the select few among his prophets were allowed to receive the higher degree of his Holy Spirit.
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Wyatt earp
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I have been thinking a lot about 1 timothy 5:22
New International Version
Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.
I never tried to lay hands on people to see of I could help them get the holy spirit (many people told me straight out they either don't have it or don't know)
My reasons are
1 I am not a righteous person James 5:17
2 what if it zaps me of the power? I am thinking of the woman who touched jesus
3 with this bible verse what if the stupid demons get in me?
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kjw47
Gold Member
Collosians 1:15--He was Gods image--not God- He lived 24/7-365 to do Gods will--that is how they could see the Father.--The Father is greater than i---
When the bible proves you in at error at every step--one should believe it.
No man has ever seen God.
Israel is no longer Gods chosen-Matt 23:38-39--- spiritual Israel gathered in all nations is Gods chosen now. Matt 21:43
i would run from your teachers.
kjw47
Gold Member
2 edged sword--- The righteous are covered by Jesus---The rest are wicked in Gods view and will cut off. Psalm 37:9-11,29 Matthew 7:21-23
Wyatt earp
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What do you mean no one seen God, Moses seen God and all that Jesus is, is God in the flesh
Plus
John 14:9, NIV: "Jesus answered: 'Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father"
Indeependent
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What one sees is a manifestation based on one’s level of prophesy.
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norwegen
Diamond Member
Very few in the OT "got" the Holy Spirit. Very few knew God. Israel was an idolatrous nation, after all, except for a remnant. The remnant were always God's favored people.
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. (Romans 9:6-8)
And sometimes it did seem temporary. David, for example, a murderer and adulterer, wasn't exactly consistently righteous. Or maybe he was as righteous as any fallen man could be before Christ, before the Holy Spirit.
norwegen
Diamond Member
I don't think they did. They just worshipped God. A few refrained from idolatry and worshipped the living God. That's what made them righteous.
Wyatt earp
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It depends on what translation you use like I posted all through the two books of kings they had the spirit of the Lord in them, in the NIV translation it says they did good in the eyes of the lord
Wyatt earp
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Saul had the holy spirit in him then did wrong and God gave him an evil spirit according to the New kjv
norwegen
Diamond Member
In other words, Saul believed in God, then turned evil? Perhaps? Just a detail.
After Adam's fall from grace, he wandered the wilderness (i.e., he lived as an unbeliever among unbelievers). Over the years, he started building tabernacles, donning vestments, imposing laws, and all the rest, eventually calling himself Israel and waiting for some vague notion of a Messiah.
That's the Old Testament.
When you can see it overall, from ancient Israel's point of view, the details don't get in the way.
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