Some inconvenient facts for EV cheerleaders!!

[Dagosa]

electricity is and has never been free

the facts are , IF the usa went 1/4 EV, we'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra 4 trillion gigawatts

producing it, along with the mining , and disposal of lithium amount to a significant amount of pollution rivalling internal combustion

~S~

Bull shit. You didn’t read my post. Don’t be illiterate. Electricity is free at the time of production as the conversion of photons to electricity costs nothing. Fossil fuel is not. Both have costs For the collection and distribution, but fossil fuel requires a purchase price for the raw elements then for the refining. . You pay nothing for photons, you pay nothing for the wind, you pay nothing for the tides. Neither does any have to be refined idiot. You’re ignorant. You have the same stupid comments.
Processing lithium or lead for battery storage has to be done for every fossil fuel driven car, truck or other vehicle. Maybe you aren’t that bright, but every fossil fuel management system depends upon electricity on Electrical storage.
But YOU WANT TO PAY FOR and fight wars for THE OIL, while photons , the wind and tides are FREE.

A nuclear powered plant cost $6500 plus per Kw while a solar farm cost a $1000. Then, the nuclear power plant fuel needs to be proscessed , used then guarded for 10,000 years. The photons for the solar plant are free….all 2.893 x 10^21 photons are hitting 1 square m of solar panel per second. ALL FREE.

 

[Dagosa]

electricity is and has never been free

the facts are , IF the usa went 1/4 EV, we'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra 4 trillion gigawatts

producing it, along with the mining , and disposal of lithium amount to a significant amount of pollution rivalling internal combustion

~S~

The electricity from photons, wind and the tides is free. You’re paying for the management and distribution of it.
Fossil fuel is not free. Both have to be distributed and managed. But at the source point, the conversion process from a free element to electricity is free.

Its no DIFFERENT then someone giving you free firewood to heat your house. The heat is FREE. YOU pay for the stove and your Management of the wood and heat…..the heat is still free.

 

[Dagosa]

How much pollution is caused by mining lithium?


Particularly in hard rock mining, for every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air.


Why don't we mine lithium in the US?


Despite dozens of potential lithium mines in the United States and in Canada, most projects are in various stages of development and many are years away from production, particularly with environmental lawsuits delaying development due to multiple entry points for litigation in U.S. regulatory law.Sep 21, 2022

~S~

Are you suggesting we don’t use lithium in all batteries now ? Do you understand that even fossil fuels vehicles ALL need batteries. Maybe you didn’t notice, electrification and battery manufacturing is rising even without EVs. Al, cars need electricity…every fking. one of them.

 

[Dagosa]

electricity is the most $$$ fuel

creating machines that use it efficiently does not change this

~S~

Wrong. The electric motor is as much as 90% efficient while fossil fuel motors are at most 30%. plus, fossil fuel motors ALL pollute and electric motors don’t. That makes electricity used to travel one mile, less expensive then the gasoline used by at least, a factor of three.….and much more because of the processing and distribution and maintenance cost of gasoline.

 

[Dagosa]

What is the source of this information?

A typical EV battery uses 10 kg (22 lbs) of lithium.

Are we in danger of running out of lithium for rechargeable batteries?

As electric vehicles take over from the gasoline engine, this will put significant pressure on the world's lithium supplies.

www.zdnet.com

That ton of mined lithium can produce batteries for 90 EV batteries.

A typical American car produces 4.6 metric tons per year

Greenhouse Gas Emissions from a Typical Passenger Vehicle | US EPA

This page answers questions about GHG emissions from passenger vehicles and how these emissions are measured and calculated.

www.epa.gov

90 x 4.6 = 414 tons of CO2 not produced, PER YEAR by that ton of lithium

Get the point?

Good post.
The typical denier forgets that fossil fuels pollute from the fuel use of the auto for its entire life and require much more pollution causing* maintenance.

 

[Dagosa]

electricity is and has never been free

the facts are , IF the usa went 1/4 EV, we'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra 4 trillion gigawatts

producing it, along with the mining , and disposal of lithium amount to a significant amount of pollution rivalling internal combustion

~S~

Wrong sparky.
You're under the false assumption that pollution from lithium manufacturing is ongoing. It’s only during manufacturing. From then on, the EV is pollution free while the fossil fuel car pollutes its entire life time.

 

[Dagosa]

electricity is and has never been free

the facts are , IF the usa went 1/4 EV, we'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra 4 trillion gigawatts

producing it, along with the mining , and disposal of lithium amount to a significant amount of pollution rivalling internal combustion

~S~

Give you another example.
A 70W solar panel requires 2-3 days to recharge a 50% depleted trolling motor battery. A 100W-150W may be able to do it in a day or two depending on how much sunlight is available.

So, investment in the infrastructure to procure the photons costs money……but the electricity from this renewable ……IS FREE.

 

[sparky]

Give you another example.
A 70W solar panel requires 2-3 days to recharge a 50% depleted trolling motor battery. A 100W-150W may be able to do it in a day or two depending on how much sunlight is available.

So, investment in the infrastructure to procure the photons costs money……but the electricity from this renewable ……IS FREE.

150W won't even light up the computer i'm responding to you on Dag

~S~

 

[sparky]

pollution from lithium

Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries.

~S~

 

[Dagosa]

Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries.

~S~

Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries.

~S~

Blather. It doesn’t even come close to the pollution of a fossil fuel car over its life time
Instead, you’d like to continue BREATHING over 6 billion metric tons of GHG emissions over the lifetimes of the vehicles sold in model years of just 2012-2025.
That’s not including all the other fossil fuel vehicles we had on the road before then.

 

[gipper]

How much pollution is caused by mining lithium?


Particularly in hard rock mining, for every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air.


Why don't we mine lithium in the US?


Despite dozens of potential lithium mines in the United States and in Canada, most projects are in various stages of development and many are years away from production, particularly with environmental lawsuits delaying development due to multiple entry points for litigation in U.S. regulatory law.Sep 21, 2022

~S~

 

[Dagosa]

Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries.

~S~

Btw, are you 7nder the illusion that billions of lithium batteries will continue to be sold for your weed wacked…..

View attachment 749265

That’s hilarious….but totally irrelevant.
According to a popular factoid, 6 kiloWatt-hours of electricity is used to refine a gallon of gasoline. Because EV's drive about as far on 6 kWh as gas cars drive on a gallon of gasoline….

So actually, regardless of how much you pollute the earth making electricity and the same amount will be used to refine the oil and make gasoline. Now add the pollution of using gasoline. So thanks for showing us that fossil fuel cars will still pollute more during their lifetime….
aamof, it takes so much electricity to refine petroleum products Exxon is moving to renewables to power the refineries.

SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF HORSE SHIT TRYING TO USE all that electricity to refine fossil fuels instead of going directly into EVs.

 

[fncceo]

You pay nothing for photons, you pay nothing for the wind, you pay nothing for the tides.

You pay for infrastructure and maintenance ... just as you would with a petroleum based fuel system.

Solar / Wind / Tide has one, currently insurmountable, disadvantage over the petroleum based fuel power grid ...

... there is no practical way to store the electricity generated during the times when solar / wind / tide are available to generate power.

Solar / Wind / Tide make excellent supplements to our existing power grid but, they are not substitutes. Not now, nor at any time in the near future.

If carbon generation is, as many claim, so dangerous that our very survival relies on stopping it before suitable alternatives are ready for a commercial market, then there is no sane way to explain the total dismissal of nuclear power as a substitute for petroleum based.

It generates no carbon bi-products, the fuel costs are significantly lower (and mining them from the earth leaves a far smaller environmental footprint) and ... best of all ... nuclear power plants can be placed online with absolutely no change to our existing power infrastructure.

 

[Dagosa]

there is no practical way to store the electricity generated during the times when solar / wind / tide are available to generate power.

That’s ridiculous. Considering even electricity from fossil fuel has been stored as other energy with batteries, mechanical and thermal for decades. You’re laughable.
GEESUS, ELECTRICITY IS CONVERTED TO HEAT AND STORED AS hot water in every home with an electric hot water heater for decades. It’s not that hard. To say we can’t store electricity mechanically and in other ways is absolutely stupid. The three main grids already have stored energy for electricity conversion for emergency used NOW

Geesus, do you know what electricity is ?

 

[Dagosa]

Solar / Wind / Tide make excellent supplements to our existing power grid but, they are not substitutes.

Really ?
A combination of several renewables easily displaces fossil fuel electrical generation more cheaply and more dependably .
So you luv to have another fossil fuel war……dweebs.

 

[fncceo]

A combination of several renewables easily displaces fossil fuel electrical generation more cheaply and more dependably .

Explain how electricity is generated when wind is not blowing (or blowing too hard) and sun is not shining.

Americans have gotten used to having lights and heat at night. You're not going to get a lot of people to agree to go without.

I don't care how many planets you believe you might save.

 

[fncceo]

So you luv to have another fossil fuel war

Look pretty cool ... I've already got the leather outfit.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That’s ridiculous. Considering even electricity from fossil fuel has been stored as other energy with batteries, mechanical and thermal for decades. You’re laughable.
GEESUS, ELECTRICITY IS CONVERTED TO HEAT AND STORED AS hot water in every home with an electric hot water heater for decades. It’s not that hard. To say we can’t store electricity mechanically and in other ways is absolutely stupid. The three main grids already have stored energy for electricity conversion for emergency used NOW

Geesus, do you know what electricity is ?

GEESUS, ELECTRICITY IS CONVERTED TO HEAT AND STORED AS hot water in every home with an electric hot water heater for decades.

That is awesome!!

Do you have a hot water heater that turns hot water into electricity?

 

[gipper]

Btw, are you 7nder the illusion that billions of lithium batteries will continue to be sold for your weed wacked…..

That’s hilarious….but totally irrelevant.
According to a popular factoid, 6 kiloWatt-hours of electricity is used to refine a gallon of gasoline. Because EV's drive about as far on 6 kWh as gas cars drive on a gallon of gasoline….

So actually, regardless of how much you pollute the earth making electricity and the same amount will be used to refine the oil and make gasoline. Now add the pollution of using gasoline. So thanks for showing us that fossil fuel cars will still pollute more during their lifetime….
aamof, it takes so much electricity to refine petroleum products Exxon is moving to renewables to power the refineries.

SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF HORSE SHIT TRYING TO USE all that electricity to refine fossil fuels instead of going directly into EVs.

And what of the pollution generated to make an EV vs IC automobile? Then add the pollution generated when both types of vehicles are no longer usable and are discarded. Aren’t these aspects also required to determine which is more polluting?

 

[Dagosa]

And what of the pollution generated to make an EV vs IC automobile? Then add the pollution generated when both types of vehicles are no longer usable and are discarded. Aren’t these aspects also required to determine which is more polluting?

Go ahead, do the research. Tell us what it is. The number of moving parts in an EV is minuscule compared to an ICE vehicle. There is no comparison. The amount of energy consumed in electricity to power plants to build ICE vehicles is astronomical in comparison to an EV in building the propulsion units alone.