Sodom and Gomorrah

[logical4u]

Thank you for your post, but no where in the NT does it tell Christians to murder Jews. Hitler used the Lord in the same way that Charles Manson did: he manipulated the Lord's word to convince the "ignorant" (Biblically) to do his bidding. Being aware of the Lord and reading the Bible does not make you Christian. Accepting that you are a person and Yeshua is Lord, and that you need His love and mercy (genuinely, ask Him into your heart), is the only way that a person can become a Christian. Also, you can be a Christian and "choose" to turn away from Christ (in the NT, this is described as worse than not believing at all).

Ah, the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy...

Or you could say a wolf in sheep's clothing.....

 

[logical4u]

As they say, demons and Satan know God is real, and Christ the savior.

But they won't be in heaven. Because they reject Him.

One more time- A god who tortures people for all eternity for not believing in him isn't worthy of anyone's worship.

If people are "spiritual beings", it may be extremely hard to "end them" (their spirit). Some believe that "hell" is actually a mercy. Once in the presence of the Lord, the desire to remain there will be so strong, that only a distraction (pain) will ease the longing.
There is evidence of this: in the Book of Enoch when Enoch tells the fallen angels there punishment for sinning against the Lord, part of that punishment is banishment from the presence of the Lord (confined to earth). When they heard this part of the punishment, the fallen angels thru themselves on the ground, tore their clothing, gnashed their teeth, pulled out their hair and clawed their chests.
They were in the presence of the Lord. They knew what that was like, yet they were extremely distressed when they heard that particular part of the punishment.

We are witnesses to some spiritual occurences here where people seem to just shine with spiritual love. We want that. Many of us try to work towards that by practicing our faiths and the continual search for the truth. Yet the source of that "love" is not fully in our world. When the people that recognize the Lord are in His presence on Judgement Day, they will be filled with ecstacy. Those that deny Him will feel a super "high", but deny the source. They will denounce Him, and yet at the same time, not want to leave His presence. When they are sent away, it will be absolute hell (pain), not to be in His presence.

 

[logical4u]

As they say, demons and Satan know God is real, and Christ the savior.

But they won't be in heaven. Because they reject Him.

What about all the Buddhists, Hindus and Jews who don't necessarily recognize Christ as the Savior, yet all have a pretty strong connection to God.

Do all those people get tossed out as well? If so, the God you believe in is kinda wasteful, I mean.......creating all those people just to throw them away.

I am no Biblical scholar. But.... in Revelations, at one point, it talks about when EVERY knee shall bend before the Lord. My interpretation of this: if you see the Lord, the Christ, and recognize Him as "your" Lord, "your" Truth, you have always been a Christian. It doesn't matter what faith you believed, it doesn't matter what you called yourself. The Lord knows your heart, and He (the Lord) has been written onto every man's heart (that is proper english for men and women). You will be judged and punished for your sins (for He is a "just" Lord). Your punishments will be tempered with mercy, because he is a loving Lord. For those that deny Him .... they will be denied His presence (surely a terrible punishment, like hell itself). The Lord's ways are not our ways. We comprehend very little of His work.

 

[koshergrl]

What about all the Buddhists, Hindus and Jews who don't necessarily recognize Christ as the Savior, yet all have a pretty strong connection to God.

Do all those people get tossed out as well? If so, the God you believe in is kinda wasteful, I mean.......creating all those people just to throw them away.

I'm not sure, I haven't spent a lot of time on the fates of those of other religions yet; I've been focusing on getting it straight for myself and trusting God to know what he's doing. I have been focusing on doing what I'm supposed to instead of worrying about whether or not good people of other faiths will make it to heaven. I think there are some who believe the unsaved who have never been exposed will have an opportunity to achieve salvation, at the end. I don't know if that is biblically sound or not.

Why not? Afraid of what you might find?

I've read books on it, I just haven't really stuck my head in it and looked around much. No particular reason.

 

[JoeB131]

As they say, demons and Satan know God is real, and Christ the savior.

But they won't be in heaven. Because they reject Him.

One more time- A god who tortures people for all eternity for not believing in him isn't worthy of anyone's worship.

If people are "spiritual beings", it may be extremely hard to "end them" (their spirit). Some believe that "hell" is actually a mercy. Once in the presence of the Lord, the desire to remain there will be so strong, that only a distraction (pain) will ease the longing.
There is evidence of this: in the Book of Enoch when Enoch tells the fallen angels there punishment for sinning against the Lord, part of that punishment is banishment from the presence of the Lord (confined to earth). When they heard this part of the punishment, the fallen angels thru themselves on the ground, tore their clothing, gnashed their teeth, pulled out their hair and clawed their chests.
They were in the presence of the Lord. They knew what that was like, yet they were extremely distressed when they heard that particular part of the punishment.

We are witnesses to some spiritual occurences here where people seem to just shine with spiritual love. We want that. Many of us try to work towards that by practicing our faiths and the continual search for the truth. Yet the source of that "love" is not fully in our world. When the people that recognize the Lord are in His presence on Judgement Day, they will be filled with ecstacy. Those that deny Him will feel a super "high", but deny the source. They will denounce Him, and yet at the same time, not want to leave His presence. When they are sent away, it will be absolute hell (pain), not to be in His presence.

The book of Enoch is apocryphal. I think you guys are having enough trouble with the crazy shit that made it into the bible, you shouldn't be looking for more.

But let's put it this way. I work with a nice Japanese lady who is a Buhddist. Doesn't believe in Jesus, she believes in Bhudda. Does she deserve to go to hell? Isn't her fault. She was born in Japan and that's what they know over there.

And the same for Hindus, Muslims, Jainists, Zoroasterians, and so on.

 

[earlycuyler]

One more time- A god who tortures people for all eternity for not believing in him isn't worthy of anyone's worship.

If people are "spiritual beings", it may be extremely hard to "end them" (their spirit). Some believe that "hell" is actually a mercy. Once in the presence of the Lord, the desire to remain there will be so strong, that only a distraction (pain) will ease the longing.
There is evidence of this: in the Book of Enoch when Enoch tells the fallen angels there punishment for sinning against the Lord, part of that punishment is banishment from the presence of the Lord (confined to earth). When they heard this part of the punishment, the fallen angels thru themselves on the ground, tore their clothing, gnashed their teeth, pulled out their hair and clawed their chests.
They were in the presence of the Lord. They knew what that was like, yet they were extremely distressed when they heard that particular part of the punishment.

We are witnesses to some spiritual occurences here where people seem to just shine with spiritual love. We want that. Many of us try to work towards that by practicing our faiths and the continual search for the truth. Yet the source of that "love" is not fully in our world. When the people that recognize the Lord are in His presence on Judgement Day, they will be filled with ecstacy. Those that deny Him will feel a super "high", but deny the source. They will denounce Him, and yet at the same time, not want to leave His presence. When they are sent away, it will be absolute hell (pain), not to be in His presence.

The book of Enoch is apocryphal. I think you guys are having enough trouble with the crazy shit that made it into the bible, you shouldn't be looking for more.

But let's put it this way. I work with a nice Japanese lady who is a Buhddist. Doesn't believe in Jesus, she believes in Bhudda. Does she deserve to go to hell? Isn't her fault. She was born in Japan and that's what they know over there.

And the same for Hindus, Muslims, Jainists, Zoroasterians, and so on.

So the Bible and book of Mormon is crazy, as well as the Koran, but you dont ever bash it as you do the other two, yet those who worship six armed beings with elephant heads are sane ? You are a goofy cuss cammmpbell.

 

[ABikerSailor]

As they say, demons and Satan know God is real, and Christ the savior.

But they won't be in heaven. Because they reject Him.

What about all the Buddhists, Hindus and Jews who don't necessarily recognize Christ as the Savior, yet all have a pretty strong connection to God.

Do all those people get tossed out as well? If so, the God you believe in is kinda wasteful, I mean.......creating all those people just to throw them away.

I am no Biblical scholar. But.... in Revelations, at one point, it talks about when EVERY knee shall bend before the Lord. My interpretation of this: if you see the Lord, the Christ, and recognize Him as "your" Lord, "your" Truth, you have always been a Christian. It doesn't matter what faith you believed, it doesn't matter what you called yourself. The Lord knows your heart, and He (the Lord) has been written onto every man's heart (that is proper english for men and women). You will be judged and punished for your sins (for He is a "just" Lord). Your punishments will be tempered with mercy, because he is a loving Lord. For those that deny Him .... they will be denied His presence (surely a terrible punishment, like hell itself). The Lord's ways are not our ways. We comprehend very little of His work.

Quick question there chumpsteak.........how can someone who has never heard of Jesus or what He did ever be considered to be a "Christian" when they've never heard of Christ?

You really are a stupid little zealot, ain't ya?

 

[JoeB131]

So the Bible and book of Mormon is crazy, as well as the Koran, but you dont ever bash it as you do the other two, yet those who worship six armed beings with elephant heads are sane ? You are a goofy cuss cammmpbell.

Didn't say they were sane, Clem. I freely admit, I've never read the Koran and don't know enough about it to make a criticism. More to the point, a Muslim has never done anything to mess with me personally. There aren't a lot of Muslims in America, and they aren't trying to impose their stupidity on us.

Most of the problems we have with Muslims is that we keep sticking our hands in their hornet's nest and wondering why we get stung. Oh, wait, isn't that one of our "good" Hornets we used to back. (Saddam and Bin Laden were both good buddies of the CIA before they turned on us.)

The point I was making was the foolishness of a God who condemns people to eternal fire not for their conduct, but for where they just had the misfortune of being born.

He's an omnipotent, eternal being who has geographical limitations.

 

[earlycuyler]

So the Bible and book of Mormon is crazy, as well as the Koran, but you dont ever bash it as you do the other two, yet those who worship six armed beings with elephant heads are sane ? You are a goofy cuss cammmpbell.

Didn't say they were sane, Clem. I freely admit, I've never read the Koran and don't know enough about it to make a criticism. More to the point, a Muslim has never done anything to mess with me personally. There aren't a lot of Muslims in America, and they aren't trying to impose their stupidity on us.

Most of the problems we have with Muslims is that we keep sticking our hands in their hornet's nest and wondering why we get stung. Oh, wait, isn't that one of our "good" Hornets we used to back. (Saddam and Bin Laden were both good buddies of the CIA before they turned on us.)

The point I was making was the foolishness of a God who condemns people to eternal fire not for their conduct, but for where they just had the misfortune of being born.

He's an omnipotent, eternal being who has geographical limitations.

Thats not what you claim with your alter ego cammmpble. Are the other two yours to Joe/cammmpble ? You are beginning to slip up bad man. Getting real sloppy "guy".

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, I'm not going to argue with your paranoia. I suggest you go back to TH and talk to them about how Soros is out to get you...

 

[earlycuyler]

Guy, I'm not going to argue with your paranoia. I suggest you go back to TH and talk to them about how Soros is out to get you...

Guy, Guy Bud Bud. You have some good ones over there to. How do you get away with so many user accounts here ? And I never gave Soros much thought, but if he is going to get me then the Mormons will get you.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, I'm not going to argue with your paranoia. I suggest you go back to TH and talk to them about how Soros is out to get you...

Guy, Guy Bud Bud. You have some good ones over there to. How do you get away with so many user accounts here ? And I never gave Soros much thought, but if he is going to get me then the Mormons will get you.

I don't need more than one...

When I'm talking to sensible Republicans and sensible Democrats, even when we disagree, we can do it without being disagreeable.

I also like the functionality here.

 

[earlycuyler]

Guy, I'm not going to argue with your paranoia. I suggest you go back to TH and talk to them about how Soros is out to get you...

Guy, Guy Bud Bud. You have some good ones over there to. How do you get away with so many user accounts here ? And I never gave Soros much thought, but if he is going to get me then the Mormons will get you.

I don't need more than one...

When I'm talking to sensible Republicans and sensible Democrats, even when we disagree, we can do it without being disagreeable.

I also like the functionality here.

Guy, Don't even try the sensible crap. No matter the username you post under, you post to mess with people. Thats evident an any thread you post in this forum. You even goof up on in the exact same way under the other screen names, and explain the goof away the exact same way. Its very predictable.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, Guy Bud Bud. You have some good ones over there to. How do you get away with so many user accounts here ? And I never gave Soros much thought, but if he is going to get me then the Mormons will get you.

I don't need more than one...

When I'm talking to sensible Republicans and sensible Democrats, even when we disagree, we can do it without being disagreeable.

I also like the functionality here.

Guy, Don't even try the sensible crap. No matter the username you post under, you post to mess with people. Thats evident an any thread you post in this forum. You even goof up on in the exact same way under the other screen names, and explain the goof away the exact same way. Its very predictable.

I can't believe you spent two days and four pages arguing with Campbell because you thought he was me. (on the Joseph Smith Page, which was addressed to me, and I missed.)

 

[earlycuyler]

I don't need more than one...

When I'm talking to sensible Republicans and sensible Democrats, even when we disagree, we can do it without being disagreeable.

I also like the functionality here.

Guy, Don't even try the sensible crap. No matter the username you post under, you post to mess with people. Thats evident an any thread you post in this forum. You even goof up on in the exact same way under the other screen names, and explain the goof away the exact same way. Its very predictable.

I can't believe you spent two days and four pages arguing with Campbell because you thought he was me. (on the Joseph Smith Page, which was addressed to me, and I missed.)

Yeah, I bet. You forget the fact that you can see who is watching the thread dude. That and the fact that you are cammmpble and possibly to other posters here.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, Don't even try the sensible crap. No matter the username you post under, you post to mess with people. Thats evident an any thread you post in this forum. You even goof up on in the exact same way under the other screen names, and explain the goof away the exact same way. Its very predictable.

I can't believe you spent two days and four pages arguing with Campbell because you thought he was me. (on the Joseph Smith Page, which was addressed to me, and I missed.)

Yeah, I bet. You forget the fact that you can see who is watching the thread dude. That and the fact that you are cammmpble and possibly to other posters here.

Get back to me when you figure out who "else" I am....

 

[earlycuyler]

I can't believe you spent two days and four pages arguing with Campbell because you thought he was me. (on the Joseph Smith Page, which was addressed to me, and I missed.)

Yeah, I bet. You forget the fact that you can see who is watching the thread dude. That and the fact that you are cammmpble and possibly to other posters here.

Get back to me when you figure out who "else" I am....

Hey joe. Soon. It will be soon.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, man. You keep at it.... I think you'll just end up annoying a lot of people...

 

[earlycuyler]

Okay, man. You keep at it.... I think you'll just end up annoying a lot of people...

Na. But soon, you will screw up again and try and fix it . Like mining the letter z out of your cammmpble posts and you will get busted . You are not as clever as you like to believe. You are almost boring.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, I'd say I have you totally fooled.... heh, heh, heh...