Socialism Destroyed His Country, Venezuela — Here's His Message to Americans

[CowboyTed]

This whole thread is stupid...

Socialism you can think from 0-100... It is not a binary thing...

If you want a 100 you are thinking you are want North Korea.
If you want 0 then you are wanting to be like Somalia.

A 100 means everything is owned and ran by the Government...
A 0 means no Military, Police, Schools, Roads, Firefighters, Border Control, Customs, No Government even.....

Neither of these options are that good...

Lets say Sweden is a 70
US would be a 35
Germany would be 55-60

So anyone who says they want no socialism should be ignored in the same way as someone who says they want total Government control... It is just stupid and just tells you how stupid the person you are talking to is...

By the way US has probably the lowest of this number in the 1st world... There are countries lower but they are third world...

 

[maybelooking]

If someone is trying to make a government out of socialism it is a sure sign that a decadent aristocratic plutocracy has been very selfish in distributing the wealth. Socialism grows where capitalism fails to serve the basic needs of the populace.

absolute HORSE SHIT.

 

[B. Kidd]

This whole thread is stupid...

Socialism you can think from 0-100... It is not a binary thing...

If you want a 100 you are thinking you are want North Korea.
If you want 0 then you are wanting to be like Somalia.

A 100 means everything is owned and ran by the Government...
A 0 means no Military, Police, Schools, Roads, Firefighters, Border Control, Customs, No Government even.....

Neither of these options are that good...

Lets say Sweden is a 70
US would be a 35
Germany would be 55-60

So anyone who says they want no socialism should be ignored in the same way as someone who says they want total Government control... It is just stupid and just tells you how stupid the person you are talking to is...

By the way US has probably the lowest of this number in the 1st world... There are countries lower but they are third world...

Sweden has a 70!
Can't be!!
They have a market economy.
Garbage in-garbage out, according to you.

 

[struth]

Do the research.

haha i did! i was alive when it existed…what are you 17? is this what they are teaching you kids?

socialism is totalarian…when the Govt doesn’t allow you to own anything…it’s a totalarian regime

 

[occupied]

absolute HORSE SHIT.

It's the sorry truth. Capitalism or least free enterprise is the preferred human system of commerce as long as it works. When it collapses through greed or mismanagement people only then look to the alternative. No one looking to socialize snack food because the market adequately supplies that need. Medical care is expensive and difficult to obtain for many so people look to the authorities to do something so we get Medicaid/medicare. The market failed to serve the old and the poor and it resulted in a social program. What happens when the market fails the people in every way? You get people talking socialism as a government.

 

[eagle7-31]

Totaltarianism ruined his country. You know, the type of thing where one man controls a political party then gets people put in place to control elections so that he wins and that whoever he picks as a sucessor wins. Kinda like what we are seeing the republican party doing right now.

And the democrat party.

 

[IM2]

And the democrat party.

Wrong.

 

[Uriel]

Yes. Pure socialism bad.

We all know this.

Not enough know this apparently.

 

[eagle7-31]

Wrong.

Oh I never expected you to agree being that you support that sort business.

 

[Uriel]

Venezuela is much more instructive as an example of the failure of capitalism.

Before the socialist government came around the oil companies were extracting billions of dollars in crude and the only money that stayed was what they were using to buy the corrupt government. All that petroleum wealth was being stolen right out from under the people who lived there. To them capitalism was nothing more than theft and they were correct. It's the same everywhere when poor people live in a place with mineral and petroleum wealth. It's far more profitable to steal resources than to buy them. Socialism never comes out of nowhere. It rises from the ashes of economic collapse or brutal exploitation.

When considering that Chavez and Maduro just became the new cronyists to corrupt the system, it seems more instructive of the failures of cronyism.

What makes socialism worse, however, is the increased central control it provides to government. The more power you give to the state, the easier it can be corrupted.

Capitalism can certainly be corrupted as well, but it at least begins with competition. Collusion with government can reduce this competition, but that is less a fault of capitalism than of government.

 

[struth]

When considering that Chavez and Maduro just became the new cronyists to corrupt the system, it seems more instructive of the failures of cronyism.

What makes socialism worse, however, is the increased central control it provides to government. The more power you give to the state, the easier it can be corrupted.

Capitalism can certainly be corrupted as well, but it at least begins with competition. Collusion with government can reduce this competition, but that is less a fault of capitalism than of government.

in capitalism when someone is corrupt, they can be sued or prosecuted…in socialism that can’t happen. The state won’t prosecute itself, or let you sue it…more over, with what are you gonna sue it wirh when you have no means to sue it, because the state owns the fruits of your labor you have nothing

 

[Uriel]

in capitalism when someone is corrupt, they can be sued or prosecuted…in socialism that can’t happen. The state won’t prosecute itself, or let you sue it…more over, with what are you gonna sue it wirh when you have no means to sue it, because the state owns the fruits of your labor you have nothing

For the most part, this is true. That being said, we have examples of government limiting liability for corporations. The vaccine court system makes damages awarded for adverse effects much more limited than when suing other industries, for example.

One of the key differences between capitalism and socialism is that capitalism mostly covers economics, whereas socialism covers both the economic and the political. Socialist economies can have various types of governments, but since the state is part of the basis for the economy, some level of government involvement is required.

A capitalism can be coupled with any type of government, and because it does not have any particular government prerequisite other than maybe enforcement of certain property rights, the cronyism that sometimes accompanies it is more directly the blame of the state rather than of the economic concept itself.

 

[IM2]

When considering that Chavez and Maduro just became the new cronyists to corrupt the system, it seems more instructive of the failures of cronyism.

What makes socialism worse, however, is the increased central control it provides to government. The more power you give to the state, the easier it can be corrupted.

Capitalism can certainly be corrupted as well, but it at least begins with competition. Collusion with government can reduce this competition, but that is less a fault of capitalism than of government.

Bullshit. Both are equally corruptable by authoritarians. Venezuela was a dictatorship. That was the problem. Socialism has worked in real democracies.

 

[IM2]

Oh I never expected you to agree being that you support that sort business.

You are the one supporting such things.

 

[Uriel]

Bullshit. Both are equally corruptable by authoritarians. Venezuela was a dictatorship. That was the problem. Socialism has worked in real democracies.

I agree that both can be corrupted, but what makes socialism more likely to be corrupted is the required level of government involvement.

What would you posit as a socialism that has worked?

 

[CowboyTed]

Sweden has a 70!
Can't be!!
They have a market economy.
Garbage in-garbage out, according to you.

Sweden has a very high social care net... I am simplifying...

They have government provided healthcare, free education for all grades, there poor have a decent standard of living and access to great education programs...

We could argue it is 65 but they pay a lot in taxes...

i have worked in Sweden and the attitude is so different to other countries...

 

[IM2]

I agree that both can be corrupted, but what makes socialism more likely to be corrupted is the required level of government involvement.

What would you posit as a socialism that has worked?

Go talk to people in Europe. New Zealand. Australia.

You are talking about failures of autocratic leadership. The same thing can happen in a capitalist system and if you put trump back in office, you will learn that.

 

[struth]

Bullshit. Both are equally corruptable by authoritarians. Venezuela was a dictatorship. That was the problem. Socialism has worked in real democracies.

hahaha no it hasn’t…real democracies like the UsSR? China? cuba? hahaa

 

[Uriel]

Go talk to people in Europe. New Zealand. Australia.

You are talking about failures of autocratic leadership. The same thing can happen in a capitalist system and if you put trump back in office, you will learn that.

Australia socializes certain amenities but is not a socialism. New Zealand is the same. Most of Europe would not qualify as socialist either, but again, they do socialize certain services.

There's a big difference between socializing something like healthcare vs. socializing all or most of the economy. Even the Nordic countries are not socialist. Sweden is, in some ways, more capitalistic than us.

As far as "autocracy" goes, Trump was authoritarian on very little. He did not force businesses into a vaccine mandate, for example. He was very states rights regarding the pandemic as a whole. By contrast, Biden has been much more authoritarian.

 

[CowboyTed]

Bullshit. Both are equally corruptable by authoritarians. Venezuela was a dictatorship. That was the problem. Socialism has worked in real democracies.

Another name for Social Democracy is Regulated Capitalism....

Lets be clear, the Democrats would be a Centre Right party in Germany... Germany has run a surplus for 8 out of the last 10 years, how is that for fiscal conservatism?

No one(or extremely little) in US wants a Venezuela or a North Korea type government... Just as many (which is everyone) wants a Somalia...