Oh, trust me ... I do.Overwhelmingly? 53% vs 45% in 2024, and it's skewed that way because of black women. So if you're going to blame women, blame the black women.
Social Democracy
- Thread starter CowboyTed
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Missouri_Mike
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Voting history. It’s not really that hard to follow.
Missouri_Mike
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Black women have a reason to vote that way because of the welfare system democrats forced them into to ensure they never vote for anyone else.Overwhelmingly? 53% vs 45% in 2024, and it's skewed that way because of black women. So if you're going to blame women, blame the black women.
I blame democrats for making black women so dependent.
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
- Sep 1, 2010
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The U.S. government acquires and holds corporate stock through several avenues: [1, 2, 3]
- Strategic Corporate Stakes: The government holds direct shares in key domestic companies—such as a 10% equity stake in Intel—and stakes in critical minerals and defense manufacturing firms (e.g., MP Materials). These stakes are often acquired to protect national supply chains or through the conversion of federal grants. [1,
- Thread starter
- #405
Well I will show us your evidence... Sorry but we are getting constant allegations from RW but very little evidence...Nothing wrong with an American VP endorcing a political candidate in another country.
What's hilarious is that you apparently believe Democrats are squeaky clean when it comes to 'raising money' to flow into their election coffers.Maybe you should stick to worrying about politics where you actually live.
Her sis the start of the investigation into CPAC taking money from Hungry:
Investigating claim Hungarian PM Viktor Orbán used taxpayer money to fund CPAC
The claim stems from a news conference Hungarian Prime Minister-elect PĂ©ter Magyar gave after winning the general election.
www.snopes.com
Hungary’s New Leader Reveals Viktor Orbán Was Paying CPAC
Péter Magyar called the payments a “crime” and said his government would stop the funds.
Opinion | Hungary’s prime minister dropped a CPAC bombshell. Now this House Democrat has questions.
Rep. Mike Levin, a California Democrat, said alleged payments made by Hungary to the U.S.-based CPAC could constitute election interference.
www.ms.now
This is plenty of evidence to start an investigation... There is no way a Trump DOJ is going to investigate that...
- Thread starter
- #406
They spend less than the US and there health systems are ranked well above US..
Yep, Higher Taxes for better services... This is like US in 1950s, 60s, 70s....
When MAGA are asked when's America Great, they refer to this time... Taxes where higher back then, education was paid for more, infrastructure was better.....
Nope...
US ranked 30th behind all those European countries...
Not anymore...
Freedom of Expression Index
Data by V-Dem. Expert estimates of the extent of free speech and the freedom of the press. The index ranges from 0 to 1 (most free).
ourworldindata.org
When the US President starts targeting people he doesn't like on TV and gets them thrown off, that kind of effects Freedom of Expression...
US is well behind EU now... EU has laws on Hate Speech, they believe people have the right not to have to experience hate speech...
Manufacturing in US is deep decline
Europe knows that, work in a big company... The Manafactuering jobs are the lesser skill lower paying jobs... Why do we want them... In Europe we got free Third level education, we have the good jobs... Let US compete for those third world jobs with China...
Getting Manufacturing Jobs (non High Tech) is a waste of time, you have to compete with Chinese wages to make it work... That is top class stupid...
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
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Lets take socialized health care as a real example. I worked in health care for 30 years and trained therapists in the NHS in the UK, son in law is DR there.They spend less than the US and there health systems are ranked well above US..
Yep, Higher Taxes for better services... This is like US in 1950s, 60s, 70s....
When MAGA are asked when's America Great, they refer to this time... Taxes where higher back then, education was paid for more, infrastructure was better.....
Nope...
US ranked 30th behind all those European countries...
Not anymore...
Freedom of Expression Index
Data by V-Dem. Expert estimates of the extent of free speech and the freedom of the press. The index ranges from 0 to 1 (most free).
When the US President starts targeting people he doesn't like on TV and gets them thrown off, that kind of effects Freedom of Expression...
US is well behind EU now... EU has laws on Hate Speech, they believe people have the right not to have to experience hate speech...
Manufacturing in US is deep decline
View attachment 1264591
Europe knows that, work in a big company... The Manafactuering jobs are the lesser skill lower paying jobs... Why do we want them... In Europe we got free Third level education, we have the good jobs... Let US compete for those third world jobs with China...
Getting Manufacturing Jobs (non High Tech) is a waste of time, you have to compete with Chinese wages to make it work... That is top class stupid...
The NHS is collapsing. Its out of funds covid wiped them out. People pay far more in taxes to fund it. Taxes are higher than America, they have 5% sales tax on everything, and their mean standard of living is lower.
Now lets look at the quality.
Drs are leaving in large numbers to work privately. They got one raise in 14 years and make less when you add inflation.
Wait times are in months and even years. There is no mental health for children you must pay fir that yourself.
NHS 'in deep crisis', says doctors' leader
BMA council chair Tom Dolphin addresses the association's special representative meeting in which he tackles the challenges raised by the Government's ten-year plan
www.bma.org.uk
Public health has been broken by restructure and neglect, with no attempt to revive it despite the pandemic exposing how fragile our nation’s health has become. Despite understaffing across the NHS, we are facing the absurd spectacle of doctors out of work.
Lets look at manufacturing in socialist Europe. Its leaving
Yes, Britain's life sciences sector and broader industrial base have faced significant pressure, with several major pharmaceutical and manufacturing firms either freezing investments, canceling UK facilities, or shifting operations toward the US. [1, 2, 3]
The combination of Brexit trade barriers, high energy costs, and an uncompetitive NHS drug purchasing model has accelerated this trend. Several major moves and developments include: [1, 2, 3]
- Cancelled Investments: Pharmaceutical giants including AstraZeneca, Merck (MSD), and Eli Lilly have paused or entirely scrapped nearly ÂŁ2 billion in planned UK life-sciences infrastructure, including R&D centers and manufacturing facilities. [1, 2]
- The "Clawback" Dispute: Companies have criticized the NHS "clawback" system, which required pharma companies to pay back a percentage of their revenue if NHS drug spending rose above a specific cap. In 2025, this rate reached over 23%—making it nearly four times higher than rival European markets like Germany and France. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Broader Manufacturing Exodus: Beyond pharmaceuticals, the automotive and steel sectors have also faced severe strain, forcing UK politicians and trade negotiators to hastily reevaluate pricing schemes and foreign trade deals to stem the corporate flight. [1, 2, 3]
- Impact on Medicines: Because of fragile supply chains, manufacturing delays, and low NHS reimbursement prices, UK pharmacies have faced significant shortages of vital, everyday medications (such as aspirin). [1]
Hospital doctors, GPs, medical academics and public health doctors are all facing unemployment or training bottlenecks, jeopardising the futures of talented and dedicated doctors. The social contract between the medical profession and society has been broken. Each of these issues is contributing to the sense today that the NHS is far removed from what it once was, and far removed from what it should be.
We see the same pattern everywhere socialism is used. High costs low quality and people leaving.
- Thread starter
- #408
Agree with you...
As soon as they understand that we have a mixed economy, everyone does... Then it is about getting the mix right...
US at the moment seems to too much over on the Capitalist side. The Democrats would be a Centre right party in any other first world country in the world.
But the real issue is the MAGA faithful actually want 'America to be Great Again'... When asked they say 50s or early 60s was there great time... That is when US was not this far right, they had higher taxes and more services... Government was their to help more in Education, Health, Infrastructure...
Trump sold them the idea that if they cut taxes more that this would return... It is a con job, it was pushed and pushed... Corporate Media (including the CNNs...) even fall into this as well...
You never see them saying that if MAGA wants the old days back, how about we pay old days taxes especially Corporates... Coporates and Rich are the ones paying much lower effective tax rates..
Even looking at this
Look at Payroll taxes are increasing and Corporate taxes are decreasing... i.e. workers taxed more, investors taxed less..
Estate Taxes are way lower and that has been slowly increased the wealthy getting wealthier..
Wealth have negated their taxes...
This is the reality... Yep they own the Media to feed you that this is great...
Can we point out that in Europe the media are constantly talking about income inequality, really don't see it as much in US even on CNN and MSNBC...
- Thread starter
- #409
UK voted for Brexit... Simply put, that is the equivalent of MacroEconomic suicide...Lets take socialized health care as a real example. I worked in health care for 30 years and trained therapists in the NHS in the UK, son in law is DR there.
The NHS is collapsing. Its out of funds covid wiped them out. People pay far more in taxes to fund it. Taxes are higher than America, they have 5% sales tax on everything, and their mean standard of living is lower.
Now lets look at the quality.
Drs are leaving in large numbers to work privately. They got one raise in 14 years and make less when you add inflation.
Wait times are in months and even years. There is no mental health for children you must pay fir that yourself.
The whole nation knows that the health service is in deep crisis. The family doctor is harder than ever to see. Waits for hospital appointments are too often measured in years, not days and weeks. Each year tens of thousands of people wait more than 24 hours to be admitted to hospital from the emergency department.NHS 'in deep crisis', says doctors' leader
BMA council chair Tom Dolphin addresses the association's special representative meeting in which he tackles the challenges raised by the Government's ten-year plan
Public health has been broken by restructure and neglect, with no attempt to revive it despite the pandemic exposing how fragile our nation’s health has become. Despite understaffing across the NHS, we are facing the absurd spectacle of doctors out of work.
UK since has been running out of money for everything... Tories have mismanaged the country into the ground...
Maybe Labour will get it back but they first thing is to get your free trade with your powerhouse of your neighbour back....
NHS is highly supported in UK and the taxpayers want more to be invested into it.
UK currently spend $6,747 per person US spends $15,474 per person on Health.
So if UK had the money to spend on the Health they would be far far better than the US but ash the moment their health system is ranked higher than the US..
All went to Ireland... Ireland has generally gained on all of these...
This isn't a Left v Right thing... It is being stupid voting for Brexit thing.
Called financial management... Might as well said Companies are complaining they could take NHS for a ride...
Brexit... Brought in and pushed by Right wing parties in UK
Brexit... Brought in and pushed by Right wing parties in UK
Brexit... Brought in and pushed by Right Wing parties in UK (the Tories and Reform)
- Thread starter
- #410
This is not Capitalism, this is effectively push towards socialism.
The government is taking a share in the means of production...
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
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America pays more because our healthcare is better and we can afford more. Its not even close. We have mental healthcare for minors, short wait times, modern drugs, more and better DRs and nurses. Do you know why a Mercedes coats more then a KIA? Its better.
You need real life experience not some failed ideology you cant defend. When you believe in failure it defines who you are
"It's different when they do it!!!".
Trumpsters like them some "socialism", as long as they're calling the shots. You're arguing with the wrong people. They're on your side, ideologically at least.
We pay more because of the highly regulated market - for both health care and insurance. The kind of regulations socialists want more of.
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They are struggling today and it's Trump's doing.
And the struggles we faced under Biden were Trump's doing. He handed Joe that mess. He sent out the first stimulus check. Now you can pretend Trump would have handled the pandemic better but you also said he'd end the Ukraine war in a day. Has he?
Oh I'm sure you believe Trump would have handled things better than Joe did. Isn't that right? Like I bet you believe Trump would have solved the pandemic in a day just like he said he'd do Iran. Remember he said that? Trump said a lot of things that turned out not to be true.
Did you hear this?
The Trump administration has developed a plan to send American citizens exposed to Ebola while abroad to a new quarantine and treatment facility in Kenya, rather than flying them back to the United States for care.
Imagine if Joe Biden proposed sending people with Covid to Kenya. LOL
And notice everyone else is the enemy except the corporations. It's never the corporations and CEO's. It's China, Mexico, illegal workers, blacks, DEI hires, etc. The same corporations who sent all our jobs overseas. The same ones I said broke the social contract with American workers starting in the late 70's. Guys like Jack Welch at GE started firing the bottom 10% performers in every department every year regardless of how profitable the company was.
1322%. Never forget that number. The figure comes from a well-known 2021 study by the Economic Policy Institute, which found that adjusted inflation-adjusted CEO compensation at major U.S. firms surged by 1,322% between 1978 and 2020.
And it turns out the CEO's who sent the most jobs overseas got the biggest raises.
I've told this story a million times. It's not just the 500 CEO's at the Fortune 500's. What about all the VP's?
A typical Fortune 500 company has between 40 and 150 Vice Presidents
My brother went from making $500K a year to over $1 million. And if you are a DEI, double or triple that. Why did their pay go up so much? Republicans will say 500 CEO's can't put a dent in the debt. What about 100 VP's x 500? That's 50,000 VP's making twice as much as they used to and paying a hell of a lot lower taxes. There's the widening gap between the rich and rest of us. One example anyways.
No wonder everyone loves Louigi Mangioni.
IDIOCRACY
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2017
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I had to quit reading early cuz you don't know how the world works. Those who know recognize.There is endless roars on this forum about how evil social democracy is... I just wanted to compare what modern day Western European Democracy looks like and what Social Democracy looks like...
First I just want to make it clear, Social Democracy is not Democratic Socialism. Social Democracy is about regulating Companies for the overall good for society, the idea is the Citizen comes first in society not corporations and profit.. So workers rights and pollution concerns are more important than corporate wishes... Europe learnt this the hard way in the 70s where they polluted large areas and have since been reclaiming that back.
Turns out people want the Government working for them. They are starting to understand that voting for someone who says Government doesn't work, leads to government that doesn't work.
They can see Governments in places like Western Europe working.
View attachment 1261072
UK has an 7.7% higher but for that they get free healthcare, working public transport, way better roads, almost free third level education, a proper social safety net, way better air and water quality.....
US has far more natural resources and space for a growing workable.
Some are saying, if we take the rich to the level they are taxed in Europe, the tax burden could be at Germany level without effecting.
View attachment 1261075
95% of the tax base... no raises in taxes...
For the top 5% of earners, the effective tax rate (including income taxes and social contributions) is approximately 30% to 35% in the US and roughly 45% to 50% in Germany. Germany has a significantly heavier tax burden and steeper progressivity across all high-income brackets. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Lets' do the numbers...
So if the top 5% paid taxes at the level of Germany.
I am only doing this on Federal for the moment and in brackets I am using today's rates as effected by inflation
That 76% of the taxes collected getting a 15% increase in line with Germany. This is everyone earning over $173,000($209,000). So it would be starting at around $160,00 ($180,000 today) tax bracket... So you only pay the extra after that.
So for that you get
You have a right to disagree, no problem.. But it is a reasonable proposal, I don't think villainising people who are asking the question of why not, is any way productive.
- Free or very affordable Healthcare
- Working public transport which is a game changer in economic movement
- Way better roads,
- Free third level education,
- a proper social safety net,
- way better air and water quality
- Lower Crime rate (United States homicide rate is roughly 5 to 6 times higher than Germany's)
- many other things...
US has some very bad metrics by first world standard:
This is not about villainising one side or the other... This is about amateur discussion that compares how the the wealthy in both sides contribute.
- One of the highest infant mortality rate in first world (US 5.1 v Germany 3.1)
- Highest incarceration rate in first world ( US puts there own citizens in prison at 7-8 times the rate of Germany)
- US Police kill their own citizens far higher (40 times the rate in Germany)
The European view is that wealth and accumulation of wealth gets major advantages in the first world, lack of corruption, security, educated work force, large consumer base... This has to be paid for and the people doing the best of it pay.
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Can I point out calling anyone Marxist or Communist when discussing Social Democracy is just exposing your complete ignorance. So please don't, it makes you sound like a 5 year old..
Social Democracy is different to those...
By the way, I am showing that Germany and Western Europe have stats which some Americans might prefer... The top 10% pay for services (like Germany & EU) that they benefit.
A. Europe protects their people at the expense of business. It's very hard and expensive to do business there, so people don't.
B. USA is far more free and much cheaper to do business, on condition it's not California for instance. The USA is business friendly and why we're #1.
M14 Shooter
The Light of Truth
CowboyTed
No response?
Show us your evidence... Sorry but we are getting constant claims from LW but very little evidence...
Republican voters think "we" are over regulated. Because corporations tell them they are. And then they point to 1 or 2 ridiculous regulations that do seem like too much. But then they go and undo regulations that are very much necessary.
They never talk specifics. Regulations should be discussed one regulation at a time. But Republicans have been brainwashed to think all regulations are bad. So they defend Republican politicians whenever they deregulate. Even if it doesn't seem like a good idea. Environmental regulations especially. I don't even want to get into it but Trump deregulations are going to cause a lot of harm long after he's gone. And they already are.
Trump isn't deregulating. He's re-regulating, to benefit himself and his supporters at the taxpayers expense. That's how regulations work in reality.
I didn't say there was or wasn't. Post #396 suggested that you were ignorant of this fact so I was educating you on the subject so that you wouldn't remain ignorant. You're a fun guy to correct because you are such a condescending jackass.
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