So You Want Jobs!!

[Truthmatters]

So you really think that NYC has road cost going up because they have puplic transit?

No, not sure why you thought that. My point was that the simple introduction of mass transit does NOT equal reduced road repair costs. And, BTW, I am not anti-mass transit at all. But, mass transit is a loser almost everywhere, that is why it is so heavily subsidised... nobody wants to pay full freight to keep it profitable.

And, BTW, how's Amtrak doing these days?

Yes it does, every time someone usses it instead of the roads then it has had its traffic reduced.

The fact that they are still finding increased use of the roads and the cost of goods to repair the road do not erase the fact that the transit helped.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

To summarize, most transit systems are massive beurocracies... they never convey the true cost of useing them because nobody would pay it. So, like Amtrak, the USPS, etc., it gets passed on to everybody in terms of higher taxes.

The notion that this will be offset somewhere else is silly. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yes it does, every time someone usses it instead of the roads then it has had its traffic reduced.

So? Why are per-mile road repair costs in the metro NY area DOUBLE that of the Greater New Orleans area? We have almost no mass transit. You'd think ours would be DOUBLE THEIRS.

 

[Navy1960]

First these companies that make things such as the F-22 are already private companies who happen to have a defense division. Take Boeing for example, Boeing makes commerical aircraft and the commerical aircraft market is way down at the moment due to world economic conditions and has already led to layoffs in that sector. Now when the Govt. first says. we plan to stimulate the economy and create jobs then at the same time cancel a program like the F-22 they are NOT laying off Govt. workers they are laying of in many cases Union and non Union private industry workers who supply commercial and defense needs for these companies. Take NASA for example, when you set out based on what IMHO is flawed logic to cancel the Constellation program it effects not only those working in commercial space flight industry but all the associated industries that support it. To just make the statement, well lets just convert them to non-defense, does not take into consideration that a lot of these companies are ALREADY engaged in non-defense work. This notion that "green jobs" will save us is nonsense especially when you consider that EVERY single industry that supports alternative energy from batteries to solar to wind is largely produced offshore and will continue to be produced there.

 

[Mr Natural]

Yes it does, every time someone usses it instead of the roads then it has had its traffic reduced.

So? Why are per-mile road repair costs in the metro NY area DOUBLE that of the Greater New Orleans area? We have almost no mass transit. You'd think ours would be DOUBLE THEIRS.

Higher labor costs.

 

[uscitizen]

Mass transits systems enabel large high density cities to exist.

Imagine getting around in NYC with no subways....

Mass transit systems are a necessary thing in large high density cities.

 

[Navy1960]

Cavazos' proposal would eliminate 1,379 of the city's 16,000 positions, though a third of the targeted positions are vacant. The Police Department would lose about 353 sworn positions, from patrol officers to assistant chiefs. The Fire Department would cut 144 sworn jobs. The cuts represent about 18 percent of the total sworn police and fire force.
Six of the city's 15 library branches, five of its senior centers and numerous sports complexes and community centers would be shuttered. Funding for the arts and after-school programs would be slashed. And bus routes and light-rail hours would be reduced.
Phoenix details plan for drastic cutbacks

The problem with these light rail and inner-city transit systems is that they exist not on the revenue they create but on the taxpayers that most do not use. The same will be true for these HSR systems that the Govt. wants to build with the possible exception of the DC to NYC route.

 

[Samson]

I was struck on the textile issue quite a bit and it seems to me that if Govt. wants to promote the economy then they can start by purchasing military uniforms from domestic textile industries.

If the government wants to stimulate the economy, how about they stop purchasing anything and allowing the citizens that work for a living to keep their money?

I realize this is a Radical Idea.

 

[Navy1960]

I was struck on the textile issue quite a bit and it seems to me that if Govt. wants to promote the economy then they can start by purchasing military uniforms from domestic textile industries.

If the government wants to stimulate the economy, how about they stop purchasing anything and allowing the citizens that work for a living to keep their money?

I realize this is a Radical Idea.

Understand its a radical idea and for the most part I'm all for less intrusion into the lives of people by the Govt. however if they must, IMHO the citizens of this nation should at least benefit in some small way from the Govt. spending those tax dollars.

 

[MaggieMae]

Producing obsolete weapons for jobs?

Better to produce alternative energy soloutions.

Produce alternative energy solutions when people can afford to implement alternative energy solutions...otherwise their is no demand for the alternative energy solutions.

SO exactly what do they do with the alternative energy solutions when they sit in warehouses? And what do all of those new employees do with their time after they have i9ncreased inventory to the maximum amount?

You may as well employ people to dig holes and fill them again...at least there is no "ending point".

That argument is like saying what should we do with our inventory of emergency medical supplies when there is no current emergency?

There is no "ending point" to alternative energy just as there's no "ending point" to oil, natural gas, or nuclear energy production. What on earth would make you think that? Do you think whatever it is would never need maintenance, replacement, upgrades?

 

[Oldandtired]

Producing obsolete weapons for jobs?

Better to produce alternative energy soloutions.

Produce alternative energy solutions when people can afford to implement alternative energy solutions...otherwise their is no demand for the alternative energy solutions.

SO exactly what do they do with the alternative energy solutions when they sit in warehouses? And what do all of those new employees do with their time after they have i9ncreased inventory to the maximum amount?

You may as well employ people to dig holes and fill them again...at least there is no "ending point".

That argument is like saying what should we do with our inventory of emergency medical supplies when there is no current emergency?

There is no "ending point" to alternative energy just as there's no "ending point" to oil, natural gas, or nuclear energy production. What on earth would make you think that? Do you think whatever it is would never need maintenance, replacement, upgrades?

You obviously have not yet had an opportunity to read the entire debate I was involved in....and responded to the last one or two points I made...which do not make much snese without knowing where I started from.
No problem...I have made the same mistake many times.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I was struck on the textile issue quite a bit and it seems to me that if Govt. wants to promote the economy then they can start by purchasing military uniforms from domestic textile industries.

On this point I agree 100%!!! I mean f if we put a US flag on it and a US soldier IN it it sure ah HELL should be made HERE!!!

 

[Navy1960]

I don't know how many have taken the time to read the article but it indicated that the money spent by DoD each year in textiles can create 212,000 jobs not to mention the fact the pride the soldier and sailor will have knowing the uniform they wear is made in the USA.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

when you have people riding rail instead of using roads you make maintaining the roads cheaper.

Why? Does concrete or asphalt now cost less? Then why are bridge tolls used to cover maintenance ever increasing in NYC???

Uh dude that was just DUMB! If you keep fewers cars on the roads you put less wear and tear on the roads. Regardless of how you feel about rail that should be as clear as the car in front of you.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

There was quite a little spat that hit here at home for me. The Mass. transit auth. wanted to buy some new rail cars.......FROM OVERSEAS when we have a co called Motive power that bulids locomotives. They were trying to get an EXEMPTION to buy them over seas. I am pretty sure they LOST that appeal.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Ahh and you don't notice the new high efficency climate control systems or insulation do you?

I have both, what is your point?

So you argue AGAINST those sorts of items and THEN admit/claim to USING THEM? How about we force the military to use the MOST energy efficient bulding techs in ANY new construction? I wonder if our "SUPER" bases in Iraq have SOLAR PANELS?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

My electric bill in the dead of summer, which is typically in the nineties, is about $350. And that includes running an in-ground swimming pool too.

Quite manageable.

WTF do you COOL your swimming pool?

 

[Oldandtired]

My electric bill in the dead of summer, which is typically in the nineties, is about $350. And that includes running an in-ground swimming pool too.

Quite manageable.

WTF do you COOL your swimming pool?

I have a 20K gallon pool and the filter must run at least 4 hours a day for full water cycling.
We do not "cool" our pool but it is uses electricioty to keep it sanitary.

 

[Oldandtired]

Ahh and you don't notice the new high efficency climate control systems or insulation do you?

I have both, what is your point?

So you argue AGAINST those sorts of items and THEN admit/claim to USING THEM? How about we force the military to use the MOST energy efficient bulding techs in ANY new construction? I wonder if our "SUPER" bases in Iraq have SOLAR PANELS?

Using them is not the issue. We ALL would if we could afford them.
But to make changes like that during a recession is not what most people will do with their money.
It is not a difficult concept to understand.
In a recession, people do not like to purchase things that are not deemed as necessities....and like it or not, to spend 20K to save 1K a year sounds good....but to spend 20K in a recession is foolish....regardless of the LONG TERM savings.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

First these companies that make things such as the F-22 are already private companies who happen to have a defense division. Take Boeing for example, Boeing makes commerical aircraft and the commerical aircraft market is way down at the moment due to world economic conditions and has already led to layoffs in that sector. Now when the Govt. first says. we plan to stimulate the economy and create jobs then at the same time cancel a program like the F-22 they are NOT laying off Govt. workers they are laying of in many cases Union and non Union private industry workers who supply commercial and defense needs for these companies. Take NASA for example, when you set out based on what IMHO is flawed logic to cancel the Constellation program it effects not only those working in commercial space flight industry but all the associated industries that support it. To just make the statement, well lets just convert them to non-defense, does not take into consideration that a lot of these companies are ALREADY engaged in non-defense work. This notion that "green jobs" will save us is nonsense especially when you consider that EVERY single industry that supports alternative energy from batteries to solar to wind is largely produced offshore and will continue to be produced there.

I do find it interesting that you support NASA which doesn't have much of a return on investment. I WHOLE HEARTEDLY support Nasa but YOUR position just seems curious to me.