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So…the defense attorney states the gun was locked? Now what in Michigan case?

2aguy

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Sooo…the defense attorney stated the gun wasn’t loose but was actually locked………

I ask this court to note that full discovery has not been available and that the court is only aware of the facts the Prosecution has presented, but that gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true.


Also…they weren’t fleeing….

The Crumbleys’ attorneys said that their clients “were never fleeing prosecution” and that the missed court appearance was a result of miscommunication with the court. Defense attorney Mariell Lehman also claimed McDonald was trying to “make an example” out of the Crumbleys.
 

MisterBeale

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And what? You want sympathy for these two shit parents?

Unless you can uncover for me, maybe some source and motive, that the kid was a victim of some mind programming like John Hinckley Jr., Sirhan Sirhan and James Holmes all clearly were. . .

It is going to be hard to get public sympathy.

In all of those instances, it is clear to the rational and independent thinker, what the agenda, and stake holders involved, given the other players involved. You just look at who the targets were, or the parent of the shooter and their connections, and the pieces fall into place.

What does this kids parents do? What are their connections?

Otherwise, I am not moved by the agenda, they just seem like two shit parents.

I am seriously having a hard time finding Deep State finger prints on this one. . .


 
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2aguy

2aguy

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And what? You want sympathy for these two shit parents?

Unless you can uncover for me, maybe some source and motive, that the kid was a victim of some mind programming like John Hinckley Jr., Sirhan Sirhan and James Holmes all clearly were. . .

It is going to be hard to get public sympathy.

In all of those instances, it is clear to the rational and independent thinker, what the agenda, and stake holders involved, given the other players involved. You just look at who the targets were, or the parent of the shooter and their connections, and the pieces fall into place.

What does this kids parents do? What are their connections?

Otherwise, I am not moved by the agenda, they just seem like two shit parents.

I am seriously having a hard time finding Deep State finger prints on this one. . .



Deep state?

Put the booze down….
 

night_son

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Sooo…the defense attorney stated the gun wasn’t loose but was actually locked………

I ask this court to note that full discovery has not been available and that the court is only aware of the facts the Prosecution has presented, but that gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true.


Also…they weren’t fleeing….

The Crumbleys’ attorneys said that their clients “were never fleeing prosecution” and that the missed court appearance was a result of miscommunication with the court. Defense attorney Mariell Lehman also claimed McDonald was trying to “make an example” out of the Crumbleys.


Will fall on deaf ears of the radical left and all others who believe Americans should not own firearms. Everything about this case reeks of politicization by the radical left, who will very likely proceed to crucify the young shooter and his parents. Funny (ha, ha) thing about this case is how just days after the shooting articles started running about a push for new and stalled gun control laws in Michigan and elsewhere. Coincidence? Not bloody likely.

For years the American Left has been pushing for (and often getting) new gun control legislation passed through various legislative bodies immediately following mass shootings of a very specific nature. However, none of the mass shootings which go down in inner-city democrat strongholds on an almost weekly basis, usually black on black violence, result in media outcry for gun control or gun control political crusades.

You ask me these mass shootings, almost always carried out by white youths or young men, are planned, with the perpetrators selected and groomed or even brainwashed to open fire. Prior to the COVID-19 global pandemic deception I would have never believed such a thing possible. Now? Now it all seems very likely. Modern politicians will go to ANY lengths to force their ideological agendas on the masses—up to and including murder.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Will fall on deaf ears of the radical left and all others who believe Americans should not own firearms. Everything about this case reeks of politicization by the radical left, who will very likely proceed to crucify the young shooter and his parents. Funny (ha, ha) thing about this case is how just days after the shooting articles started running about a push for new and stalled gun control laws in Michigan and elsewhere. Coincidence? Not bloody likely.

For years the American Left has been pushing for (and often getting) new gun control legislation passed through various legislative bodies immediately following mass shootings of a very specific nature. However, none of the mass shootings which go down in inner-city democrat strongholds on an almost weekly basis, usually black on black violence, result in media outcry for gun control or gun control political crusades.

You ask me these mass shootings, almost always carried out by white youths or young men, are planned, with the perpetrators selected and groomed or even brainwashed to open fire. Prior to the COVID-19 global pandemic deception I would have never believed such a thing possible. Now? Now it all seems very likely. Modern politicians will go to ANY lengths to force their ideological agendas on the masses—up to and including murder.

Yeah…you lost me……

the kid is nuts….what the parents knew and did is the question…
 

SavannahMann

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Well if the Defense Attorney says so it must be true. Question. All those black rapists and murderers. Are their lawyers also correct when they say their clients are innocent?
 

night_son

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And what? You want sympathy for these two shit parents?

Unless you can uncover for me, maybe some source and motive, that the kid was a victim of some mind programming like John Hinckley Jr., Sirhan Sirhan and James Holmes all clearly were. . .

It is going to be hard to get public sympathy.

In all of those instances, it is clear to the rational and independent thinker, what the agenda, and stake holders involved, given the other players involved. You just look at who the targets were, or the parent of the shooter and their connections, and the pieces fall into place.

What does this kids parents do? What are their connections?

Otherwise, I am not moved by the agenda, they just seem like two shit parents.

I am seriously having a hard time finding Deep State finger prints on this one. . .




As an American Citizen, cheering for the media/State dissection of fellow citizens' lives is a very, very slippery slope. This kids' parents could be good, upstanding citizens doing their best to raise a child. They could also be abusive, slacker, degenerates. My point is, when driven to achieve political agendas which support highly polarized political narratives, such as gun control, our "elected" officials will stop short of nothing—certainly not character assassination of two mere mortal, everyday peasants. At any time the next American peasant having their entire lives dissected under a national microscope could be you or I.
 

MisterBeale

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As an American Citizen, cheering for the media/State dissection of fellow citizens' lives is a very, very slippery slope. This kids' parents could be good, upstanding citizens doing their best to raise a child. They could also be abusive, slacker, degenerates. My point is, when driven to achieve political agendas which support highly polarized political narratives, such as gun control, our "elected" officials will stop short of nothing—certainly not character assassination of two mere mortal, everyday peasants. At any time the next American peasant having their entire lives dissected under a national microscope could be you or I.
I understand your POV. . . but, respectfully, I have to disagree. Either they were absent from their child's life, or, they knew he was struggling emotionally and mentally, and still bought him a gun, or had a gun around him.

I thought you had raised children yourself?

Anyone that has, knows this.

If you raise children, you know their mental and emotional state. Guns are not toys. Nor are they tools to deal with your emotional problems.

If this couple were, "good, upstanding citizens doing their best to raise a child," they would have known the mental and emotional state of their own child, and thus, a gun would not have been in a place where the kid could have even had access to it.

I agree with you on everything else, this should not be made into a political issue over gun control. This is largely about children's and teen's mental health.

I have seen several comments, mostly on other platforms, because it is in my state, and there were discussions about several hundred school districts closing schools around the state this week, because many kids are either calling in, or texting in threats of doing the same. Naturally, now the school districts are over reacting. The kids are all fucking with the adults and administrations just to get out of going to school. It is causing complete chaos now.


And a lot of parents and adults are denying that this has anything to do with all the fear porn that the establishment media has been pumping into the culture for the past several years. BULLSHIT. Kids are all depressed as hell. They feel hopeless about the future. Climate change/disease ad nauseam. They don't feel like they will ever own a home or have families of their own.

So? Why the hell should they go to school? Why the hell should they fall in love, or have a career? If the world is going to end, or the ruling elites are going to put them in restrictive prisons for the rest of their lives? What is the point anymore?

Is ANYONE really surprised that they are all bullying the shit out of one another, and not even caring if there is a tomorrow anymore? It is the establishment and the MSM that has done this to them all. It has created a dystopia for them. . .

IT IS TERRIBLE!!!!

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Fang

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Yeah…you lost me……

the kid is nuts….what the parents knew and did is the question…

^ This.

The kid should never be free again. His life is over. The parents involvement remains to be seen. Not ready to pass judgment on them just yet, but not looking good. Also, what involvement does the school have?
 

excalibur

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Several states have so-called CAP (child-access prevention) laws that make it a crime for adults to allow children to have unsupervised access to firearms. Such laws have repeatedly been proposed in Michigan, but the legislature has opted not to enact them. Moreover, while prosecutors insisted, in announcing their involuntary-manslaughter charges, that the pistol should have been locked away, with a safety mechanism clipped in place and the ammunition kept separate, there is no such mandate in state law. And, the passion of anti-gun advocates notwithstanding, if such a law were enacted it would face stiff constitutional challenges.

Now, with the legislature having refused to criminalize the conduct in which the Crumbley parents engaged, the prosecutors — whose actual job is to enforce the legislature’s laws — are attempting in the heat of the moment to criminalize the conduct themselves.

It is one thing to say that the parents were egregiously derelict — just as, for example, store owners are egregiously derelict when they sell to suspicious characters substances (including explosive powders) that can be used to make bombs. But that does not make the parents’ conduct a criminal violation, much less make them responsible for homicide — a much more serious crime, even in the form of involuntary manslaughter, than the CAP crime that Michigan has refused to codify.

The Crumbley parents may be looking at significant civil liability, and deservedly so. But we are not supposed to make criminal law by having prosecutors concoct it on the fly. We should particularly resist prosecutorial creativity in the immediate aftermath of an emotionally charged tragedy such as this one. And when legislatures do codify a crime, it should be calibrated to the wrong actually done by the action or omission, not to the horrific downstream consequences. What happened at Oxford High School may have been foreseeable in some abstract sense, but it was certainly not foreseen in concrete reality.

There is already enough tragedy here. Distorting the law to make it fit our sense of outrage can only make matters immeasurably worse in the long run.


 

Rigby5

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And what? You want sympathy for these two shit parents?

Unless you can uncover for me, maybe some source and motive, that the kid was a victim of some mind programming like John Hinckley Jr., Sirhan Sirhan and James Holmes all clearly were. . .

It is going to be hard to get public sympathy.

In all of those instances, it is clear to the rational and independent thinker, what the agenda, and stake holders involved, given the other players involved. You just look at who the targets were, or the parent of the shooter and their connections, and the pieces fall into place.

What does this kids parents do? What are their connections?

Otherwise, I am not moved by the agenda, they just seem like two shit parents.

I am seriously having a hard time finding Deep State finger prints on this one. . .



He did not try to kill his parents, neighbors, or anyone else but those in the school who had made his life a nightmare.
So you want to blame the parents?
Makes no sense.
Schools are notoriously bad.
There are several movies about people wanting to shoot teachers because schools are so notoriously bad.
 

Rigby5

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^ This.

The kid should never be free again. His life is over. The parents involvement remains to be seen. Not ready to pass judgment on them just yet, but not looking good. Also, what involvement does the school have?

Wrong.
The kid is under age and obviously emotionally disturbed.
Basic law says those are both mitigating circumstances so that once an adult and if ever sane, he could easily get out.
 

Fang

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Wrong.
The kid is under age and obviously emotionally disturbed.
Basic law says those are both mitigating circumstances so that once an adult and if ever sane, he could easily get out.
He’s charged as an adult. I can’t see the insane argument working. He’ll face 4 life sentences and other charges.
 

MisterBeale

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He did not try to kill his parents, neighbors, or anyone else but those in the school who had made his life a nightmare.
So you want to blame the parents?
Makes no sense.
Schools are notoriously bad.
There are several movies about people wanting to shoot teachers because schools are so notoriously bad.
I'm aware.

Post #8 gets into that.

However. . . the reason this is the fault of the parents, has to do with civility and ethics.

If the child is having problems in school? This is the work of parents to help him work through these issues a non-violent way.

This type of problem resolution is an unacceptable type of problem resolution. If you believe it is an acceptable problem resolution, I am worried about you.

Hollywood propaganda has nothing to do with this.
 

Rigby5

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He’s charged as an adult. I can’t see the insane argument working. He’ll face 4 life sentences and other charges.

Those charges should be over turned.
It is not legal to prosecute an emotionally disturbed person at all, and the he simply is NOT an adult, no matter what the prosecutor tries to claim.
 

Rigby5

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I'm aware.

Post #8 gets into that.

However. . . the reason this is the fault of the parents, has to do with civility and ethics.

If the child is having problems in school? This is the work of parents to help him work through these issues a non-violent way.

This type of problem resolution is an unacceptable type of problem resolution. If you believe it is an acceptable problem resolution, I am worried about you.

Hollywood propaganda has nothing to do with this.

Of course the actions were unacceptable, but prosecuting the kid and parents accomplish nothing when it is schools we have to change.
It is schools that are supposed to teach how to find acceptable ways to deal with stress.
Obviously parents can't help kids work through problems when schools are getting worse and worse.
 

mudwhistle

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Several states have so-called CAP (child-access prevention) laws that make it a crime for adults to allow children to have unsupervised access to firearms. Such laws have repeatedly been proposed in Michigan, but the legislature has opted not to enact them. Moreover, while prosecutors insisted, in announcing their involuntary-manslaughter charges, that the pistol should have been locked away, with a safety mechanism clipped in place and the ammunition kept separate, there is no such mandate in state law. And, the passion of anti-gun advocates notwithstanding, if such a law were enacted it would face stiff constitutional challenges.
Now, with the legislature having refused to criminalize the conduct in which the Crumbley parents engaged, the prosecutors — whose actual job is to enforce the legislature’s laws — are attempting in the heat of the moment to criminalize the conduct themselves.
It is one thing to say that the parents were egregiously derelict — just as, for example, store owners are egregiously derelict when they sell to suspicious characters substances (including explosive powders) that can be used to make bombs. But that does not make the parents’ conduct a criminal violation, much less make them responsible for homicide — a much more serious crime, even in the form of involuntary manslaughter, than the CAP crime that Michigan has refused to codify.
The Crumbley parents may be looking at significant civil liability, and deservedly so. But we are not supposed to make criminal law by having prosecutors concoct it on the fly. We should particularly resist prosecutorial creativity in the immediate aftermath of an emotionally charged tragedy such as this one. And when legislatures do codify a crime, it should be calibrated to the wrong actually done by the action or omission, not to the horrific downstream consequences. What happened at Oxford High School may have been foreseeable in some abstract sense, but it was certainly not foreseen in concrete reality.
There is already enough tragedy here. Distorting the law to make it fit our sense of outrage can only make matters immeasurably worse in the long run.


Good thing for you guys this white kid decided to bust a few caps at school this week, right?
 

Rigby5

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Hollywood propaganda has nothing to do with this.

I was not referring to how Hollywood can cause a detachment from reality, but the opposite, which is that Hollywood has shown how abusive schools are such a cliche that everyone knows how bad schools are.

How about blaming who really is at fault, the schools and teachers.
These poor kids can not all be at fault or else there would not be so many and they would not be committing suicide.

Everyone has always known how bad schools are.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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C_Clayton_Jones

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And, the passion of anti-gun advocates notwithstanding, if such a law were enacted it would face stiff constitutional challenges.
This is a lie, a contrivance of the dishonest right.

To advocate for appropriate, lawful firearm regulatory measures consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence is not to be ‘anti-gun.’

Indeed, it’s wrongheaded conservative jurists who have prevented the implementation of such appropriate measures.

For example, laws requiring firearms to be secured when no adult is in the home would be perfectly Constitutional, in no manner interfering with the right to self-defense.
 

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