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So…the defense attorney states the gun was locked? Now what in Michigan case?

Lakhota

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Sooo…the defense attorney stated the gun wasn’t loose but was actually locked………

I ask this court to note that full discovery has not been available and that the court is only aware of the facts the Prosecution has presented, but that gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true.


Also…they weren’t fleeing….

The Crumbleys’ attorneys said that their clients “were never fleeing prosecution” and that the missed court appearance was a result of miscommunication with the court. Defense attorney Mariell Lehman also claimed McDonald was trying to “make an example” out of the Crumbleys.

Funny. Sounds like the Alec Baldwin defense.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Well if the Defense Attorney says so it must be true. Question. All those black rapists and murderers. Are their lawyers also correct when they say their clients are innocent?

Remember all those things the prosecutor said about Rittenhouse?
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Several states have so-called CAP (child-access prevention) laws that make it a crime for adults to allow children to have unsupervised access to firearms. Such laws have repeatedly been proposed in Michigan, but the legislature has opted not to enact them. Moreover, while prosecutors insisted, in announcing their involuntary-manslaughter charges, that the pistol should have been locked away, with a safety mechanism clipped in place and the ammunition kept separate, there is no such mandate in state law. And, the passion of anti-gun advocates notwithstanding, if such a law were enacted it would face stiff constitutional challenges.
Now, with the legislature having refused to criminalize the conduct in which the Crumbley parents engaged, the prosecutors — whose actual job is to enforce the legislature’s laws — are attempting in the heat of the moment to criminalize the conduct themselves.
It is one thing to say that the parents were egregiously derelict — just as, for example, store owners are egregiously derelict when they sell to suspicious characters substances (including explosive powders) that can be used to make bombs. But that does not make the parents’ conduct a criminal violation, much less make them responsible for homicide — a much more serious crime, even in the form of involuntary manslaughter, than the CAP crime that Michigan has refused to codify.
The Crumbley parents may be looking at significant civil liability, and deservedly so. But we are not supposed to make criminal law by having prosecutors concoct it on the fly. We should particularly resist prosecutorial creativity in the immediate aftermath of an emotionally charged tragedy such as this one. And when legislatures do codify a crime, it should be calibrated to the wrong actually done by the action or omission, not to the horrific downstream consequences. What happened at Oxford High School may have been foreseeable in some abstract sense, but it was certainly not foreseen in concrete reality.
There is already enough tragedy here. Distorting the law to make it fit our sense of outrage can only make matters immeasurably worse in the long run.



If the gun was actually “locked” what liability do they have? If this is, in fact, true…….then the kid took the gun 1) without permission and 2) he broke into whatever method they used……….
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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2aguy

2aguy

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This is a lie, a contrivance of the dishonest right.

To advocate for appropriate, lawful firearm regulatory measures consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence is not to be ‘anti-gun.’

Indeed, it’s wrongheaded conservative jurists who have prevented the implementation of such appropriate measures.

For example, laws requiring firearms to be secured when no adult is in the home would be perfectly Constitutional, in no manner interfering with the right to self-defense.

Shithead….the Heller decision already ruled gun locks unConstitutional…….and if those are unConstitutional then mandatory storage laws would be gone too.
 

SavannahMann

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Remember all those things the prosecutor said about Rittenhouse?

Then the Defense attorneys are the only ones telling the truth according to you.
 

SweetSue92

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Will fall on deaf ears of the radical left and all others who believe Americans should not own firearms. Everything about this case reeks of politicization by the radical left, who will very likely proceed to crucify the young shooter and his parents. Funny (ha, ha) thing about this case is how just days after the shooting articles started running about a push for new and stalled gun control laws in Michigan and elsewhere. Coincidence? Not bloody likely.

For years the American Left has been pushing for (and often getting) new gun control legislation passed through various legislative bodies immediately following mass shootings of a very specific nature. However, none of the mass shootings which go down in inner-city democrat strongholds on an almost weekly basis, usually black on black violence, result in media outcry for gun control or gun control political crusades.

You ask me these mass shootings, almost always carried out by white youths or young men, are planned, with the perpetrators selected and groomed or even brainwashed to open fire. Prior to the COVID-19 global pandemic deception I would have never believed such a thing possible. Now? Now it all seems very likely. Modern politicians will go to ANY lengths to force their ideological agendas on the masses—up to and including murder.

Well now for just one thing, that's awfully risky. Pick mid- to low-income white kids, "brainwash" them with the hopes they don't end up waking up and spilling everything about how the US gov planned to use them to kill teenagers to forward a gun agenda....

Dude. No.
 

SweetSue92

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He did not try to kill his parents, neighbors, or anyone else but those in the school who had made his life a nightmare.
So you want to blame the parents?
Makes no sense.
Schools are notoriously bad.
There are several movies about people wanting to shoot teachers because schools are so notoriously bad.

There was no evidence the kid was "bullied".

I put bullied in quotes because, like everything in education, it has become the catch all for everything wrong now. EVERYONE is bullied now. Everyone.
 

SweetSue92

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Of course the actions were unacceptable, but prosecuting the kid and parents accomplish nothing when it is schools we have to change.
It is schools that are supposed to teach how to find acceptable ways to deal with stress.
Obviously parents can't help kids work through problems when schools are getting worse and worse.

Excuse me. We're supposed to teach kids how to find "acceptable ways to deal with stress"???

What ELSE are we expected to teach, pray tell? We already toilet train kindergarteners, serve two meals a day, follow up with health care, etc.

Are we orphanages, then? Should US parents pop out babies and hand them over to The State to just raise them?

You're going to get some strong opposition on this board on that matter but to be fair--everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, is conflicted on this point. School personnel CANNOT WIN. And so the tragic and sad end of this is that our schools, already so badly lacking staff and faculty we have to cancel some days, are going to bleed out more and more. I do not exaggerate when I say this it the end of public schools. Hope everyone is considering what happens to the Ethan Crumbleys after they dissolve.
 

Markle

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So many trolls throwing out red meat before the facts are known.

Rittenhouse wisely listened to his attorneys which drove the prosecution nuts. After it all plays out, I'm sure Baldwin will wish he was as smart as Rittenhouse.

I have no clue as to why the parents so awkwardly went on the run. Somewhere I read that husband said that he thought he had the only keys.

Should be interesting, if not tragic. I'll wait until the facts come out.

But hey, trolls, have a ball!
 

Correll

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This is a lie, a contrivance of the dishonest right.

To advocate for appropriate, lawful firearm regulatory measures consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence is not to be ‘anti-gun.’

Indeed, it’s wrongheaded conservative jurists who have prevented the implementation of such appropriate measures.

For example, laws requiring firearms to be secured when no adult is in the home would be perfectly Constitutional, in no manner interfering with the right to self-defense.


The goal of all such laws, are to give lefties weapons to use against people who USE GUNS PROPERELY.


As we saw with the attempted prosecution of Rittenhouse. They tried to use gun control laws to punish Rittenhouse for self defense.


People like you, wanted to put an innocent man in prison, for life, for no reason. Using gun control laws that I am sure were presented as just "common sense" laws.


But teh here, is to make examples of these parents, not because of anything they did, but just to advance the agenda.
 

Golfing Gator

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Sooo…the defense attorney stated the gun wasn’t loose but was actually locked………

I ask this court to note that full discovery has not been available and that the court is only aware of the facts the Prosecution has presented, but that gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true.


Also…they weren’t fleeing….

The Crumbleys’ attorneys said that their clients “were never fleeing prosecution” and that the missed court appearance was a result of miscommunication with the court. Defense attorney Mariell Lehman also claimed McDonald was trying to “make an example” out of the Crumbleys.

That is the job of the defense attorney, to say what it takes to get his clients off.

How did Ethan get the gun? Was the gun locked but he had the key? It was his gun after all, his parents got it for him as a Christmas gift. Makes sense they would have given him the key to unlock it.
 

Death Angel

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Sooo…the defense attorney stated the gun wasn’t loose but was actually locked………

I ask this court to note that full discovery has not been available and that the court is only aware of the facts the Prosecution has presented, but that gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is just absolutely not true.


Also…they weren’t fleeing….

The Crumbleys’ attorneys said that their clients “were never fleeing prosecution” and that the missed court appearance was a result of miscommunication with the court. Defense attorney Mariell Lehman also claimed McDonald was trying to “make an example” out of the Crumbleys.
They were fleeing.
How did the kid get it if it was locked
 

Death Angel

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The terrorism charge needs to be dropped. There was no "terrorism." It was a simple CRIME.

The charges against the parents are ridiculous. It is purely POLITICAL. It is an attempt to undermine the 2nd Amendment. We need a good house cleaning in Lansing, starting with Whitless
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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In a Republic, actually
Do you have to be this dumb? They are reporting what happened in court……
Your ‘source’ is unreliable, nothing but a ridiculous joke.

“Overall, we rate PJ Media to be Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies, as well as numerous failed fact checks.”

 

Mr Clean

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Maybe the parents bought the gun for the troubled kid in hopes that he would use it on himself ?
 

SassyIrishLass

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Your ‘source’ is unreliable, nothing but a ridiculous joke.

“Overall, we rate PJ Media to be Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies, as well as numerous failed fact checks.”


Bit yet you find CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc credible?

Lol
 

Grampa Murked U

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the radical left, who will very likely proceed to crucify the young shooter and his parents
The child should be crucified, LITERALLY.

The parents? I'll wait to hear the facts before drawing my conclusions about them.
 
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2aguy

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That is the job of the defense attorney, to say what it takes to get his clients off.

How did Ethan get the gun? Was the gun locked but he had the key? It was his gun after all, his parents got it for him as a Christmas gift. Makes sense they would have given him the key to unlock it.

No, it doesnt make sense they would give him a key ....qsk any of the posters here who bought rifles
or shotguns for their kids......the kid uses the gun with supervision.......
 

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