So Israel

[Chuz Life]

We provide billions of dollars worth of aid. We can get pedantic if necessary. The point remains.

Given that we are already 40 Trillion dollars in debt, that is indeed the pink elephant in the room!

 

[Darkwind]

Israel needs us more than we need them. They're not going to stop being our allies if we stop giving them money.

They won't stop being our allies because they will not exist. Full stop.

The moment that the US stops being their patron, every jew in Israel will be fair game.

 

[TNHarley]

Says the guy who made yet another gas lighting thread. You're a joke.

You wish, pagan.

 

[ding]

So we arent, in effect, subsidiziing europes welfare state by paying a huge part of their defense? Could they afford that massive welfare state without us subsidizing their defense?
This isnt about abortion as much as it is about israel.

We are sending aid to allies in that region for the best interest of the US. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

 

[Anomalism]

Again, it wasn't the OP's point.

Okay. That can be my point then.

The OP hates jews so the OP will play little games in the hopes of spreading that hatred and hopefully gain enough ground to get the US to break ties with them.

It is called 'incrementalism,' and that goes like this.

You support X because they help you defend your backyard.

The OP. But what about this? Shouldn't you stop supporting them?

And so on and so on. The x gets more unbelievable as the chain goes on, and at the end of the debate or conversation, it's, "but look at all this together!"

The problem is, all of it together adds up to nothing.

Kind of like the gun control argument.

After all, someone accidentally shoots themselves, and we need gun control. Never mind that the other 100 million haven't killed themselves.

But we need to keep the guns out of criminals' hands. So, common-sense gun laws keep criminals from getting guns. Except that never does and never will.

Incrementalism. It should be outlawed.



One last statement on the Abortion issue.

I stand against abortion, but I will go to the mattresses to stop it in the only country in which I have a say.

This one.

Regardless of any predisposition the OP has toward Israel, the shape of his argument is not illogical. I reframed it.

What's your position on my argument?

So, let's abandon the Jews because they practice a procedure that is legal even in this country. After all, it is only Jews that are dying so no big deal, right?

Israel is a pretty wealthy and powerful nation, especially relative to its neighbors. They'll be fine.

 

[Darkwind]

Disliking israel doesnt mean I hate jews. Grow up.
And that was my point. We subsidize a country that does things you guys hate. And IN EFFECT we are paying for them.

But it means exactly that.

 

[TNHarley]

Why? I'm all for bleeding Russia dry.

We are also paying peoples pensions in ukraine. We subsidize businesses. etc
Ukraine should be a write off on our taxes as they are our dependent.

 

[ding]

We are trillions of dollars in debt. We need to figure our own shit out before deciding who to rescue.

The U.S. provides aid to Middle Eastern allies primarily to advance national security interests, maintain regional stability, and support key partners like Israel and Egypt. This assistance—often military funding—helps deter threats from actors like Iran, secures energy resources, and combats terrorism, while upholding commitments to allies.
AIPAC +4
Key reasons for U.S. aid in the Middle East include:

• Security Assistance and Stability: Aid is used to help allies, particularly Israel, defend themselves against adversaries and maintain a qualitative military edge (QME).
• Counterterrorism and Regional Security: Funding supports efforts to combat violent extremist groups and prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction.
• Strategic Interests and Influence: Supporting partners like Egypt helps sustain peace treaties and maintain regional stability, which is vital for global energy security and commercial interests.
• Defense Partnerships: Aid ensures that U.S. military forces have access to the region and fosters cooperation with friendly governments.
• Historical and Political Ties: Long-standing alliances and shared democratic values are significant factors in supporting countries like Israel, the U.S.'s primary partner in the region.
  Council on Foreign Relations +6

These measures often involve providing military equipment, training, and financial support, which represent a small percentage of the federal budget while aiming to prevent the need for more direct, large-scale U.S. military intervention.

 

[Anomalism]

Why do we provide to aid to our allies in that region?

Probably so we can maintain regional influence, which isn't necessary.

 

[Darkwind]

Okay. That can be my point then.


Regardless of any predisposition the OP has toward Israel, the shape of his argument is not illogical. I reframed it.

What's your position on my argument?

Israel is a pretty wealthy and powerful nation, especially relative to its neighbors. They'll be fine.

They are nowhere near powerful enough to hold off 1 billion Muslims.

My position on your argument is that we cannot just go cold turkey and walk away from the world when it was the US that set up the dependencies for much of Europe.

I'm all for pulling back and fixing our shit, but not at the cost of 100, 200, 500 million lives. And certainly not at the cost of one Israeli hater.

 

[TNHarley]

But it means exactly that.

No, it doesnt. That just something stupid people say.
Since I hate our government, I must hate jews, muslims, christians, atheists, hindus, taoists, witches, Buddhist, Sikhs etc.
Makes a lot of sense lolz

 

[Anomalism]

Why? I'm all for bleeding Russia dry.

Because we're almost 40 trillion dollars in debt. The vast majority of Russia's military is Cold War era hardware. They're not really a threat to us other than their nukes.

 

[ding]

You just think that because you are scared of reality. And thats ok. You typical are.

Incorrect. You are totally ignoring the reason we send aid to our allies in that region so you can gas light pro-lifers because you seek conflict.

 

[TNHarley]

Incorrect. You are totally ignoring the reason we send aid to our allies in that region so you can gas light pro-lifers because you seek conflict.

Im not ignoring it, i simply dont give a fck.
That reason could apply to every nation on earth. Do you want to send aid to every one of them?
Its a FORUM. Thats the point. If we all just sung kumbaya, nobody would stay.

 

[Anomalism]

They won't stop being our allies because they will not exist. Full stop.

The moment that the US stops being their patron, every jew in Israel will be fair game.

They are nowhere near powerful enough to hold off 1 billion Muslims.

My position on your argument is that we cannot just go cold turkey and walk away from the world when it was the US that set up the dependencies for much of Europe.

I'm all for pulling back and fixing our shit, but not at the cost of 100, 200, 500 million lives. And certainly not at the cost of one Israeli hater.

We can remain their allies without sending billions in aid annually. A billion Muslims aren't going to destroy Israel overnight if we stop funding programs we can no longer afford.

Israel is a powerful and wealthy regional power. They are doing fine.

 

[ding]

I listed multiple things they support that conservatives are in opposition of in their own country, not just one.

And ignore the reason the US provides aid to its allies in the Middle East. Nothing you mentioned matters. The only thing that matters is that the US provides aid to its allies in that region to prevent the need for more direct, large-scale, costly U.S. military intervention.

 

[Anomalism]

The U.S. provides aid to Middle Eastern allies primarily to advance national security interests, maintain regional stability, and support key partners like Israel and Egypt. This assistance—often military funding—helps deter threats from actors like Iran, secures energy resources, and combats terrorism, while upholding commitments to allies.
AIPAC +4
Key reasons for U.S. aid in the Middle East include:

• Security Assistance and Stability: Aid is used to help allies, particularly Israel, defend themselves against adversaries and maintain a qualitative military edge (QME).
• Counterterrorism and Regional Security: Funding supports efforts to combat violent extremist groups and prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction.
• Strategic Interests and Influence: Supporting partners like Egypt helps sustain peace treaties and maintain regional stability, which is vital for global energy security and commercial interests.
• Defense Partnerships: Aid ensures that U.S. military forces have access to the region and fosters cooperation with friendly governments.
• Historical and Political Ties: Long-standing alliances and shared democratic values are significant factors in supporting countries like Israel, the U.S.'s primary partner in the region.
  Council on Foreign Relations +6

These measures often involve providing military equipment, training, and financial support, which represent a small percentage of the federal budget while aiming to prevent the need for more direct, large-scale U.S. military intervention.

I understand the justification and am challenging it. Israel won't stop being our allies, nor will they suddenly be conquered if we stop sending annual aid.

 

[Chuz Life]

We can remain their allies without sending billions in aid annually. A billion Muslims aren't going to destroy Israel overnight if we stop funding programs we can no longer afford.

Israel is a powerful and wealthy regional power. They are doing fine.

The politicians that send massive amounts of money to Israel know full well that a big portion is going to come back their way.


The whole thing is a ******* racket.

 

[Anomalism]

And ignore the reason the US provides aid to its allies in the Middle East. Nothing you mentioned matters. The only thing that matters is that the US provides aid to its allies in that region to prevent the need for more direct, large-scale, costly U.S. military intervention.

So...

"If we don't give billions to Israel the terrorists are going to get take over and pull us into more wars." is your argument?

 

[Independent thinker]

has free abortions.

Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal

Despite its conservative leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple

www.timesofisrael.com

If we subsidize that country to the tune of billions each year, we are, in effect, paying for Israeli women to abort their offspring.
So, why are there pro-life people who support subsidizing that country?

If you take the abortion thing away, how do you feel about Israel?