So, is there proof of INTELLIGENT DESIGN?

[LittleNipper]

And so time was also created by GOD. GOD simply IS. He exists in the past, present, and future all at the very same moment.

 

[Picaro]

I do not doubt intelligent design. Hek, this whole universe could be one big simulation.
But you lose me when you bring in bed time stories on morality made by ignorant desert people.

Whatever the case may be re Intelligent design, we know evolution is a load of rubbish, and we know those 'desert people' were not in the least 'ignorant'. Ignorant people don't leave such sophisticated bodies of literature and philosophy as the Old and New Testaments and a large collection of outside literature over thousands of years.

Claiming they are just 'bedtime stories' makes you the ignorant savage, not them.

 

[LittleNipper]

Psalm 104:2 Fully agrees with astronomy. The heavens are in the process of moving, stretching, spreading ---- further and further... Who then but GOD would have known this. This very fact wasn't known until the "modern" age. And the fact appears that time is also being stretched. So, now what was 6 days is perceived as 15 billion.

New International Version
The LORD wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent

New Living Translation
You are dressed in a robe of light. You stretch out the starry curtain of the heavens;

English Standard Version
covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent.

Berean Study Bible
He wraps Himself in light as with a garment; He stretches out the heavens like a tent,

New American Standard Bible
Covering Yourself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain.

New King James Version
Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment, Who stretch out the heavens like a curtain.

King James Bible
Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Christian Standard Bible
He wraps himself in light as if it were a robe, spreading out the sky like a canopy,

Contemporary English Version
and surrounded by light. You spread out the sky like a tent,

Good News Translation
you cover yourself with light. You have spread out the heavens like a tent

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He wraps Himself in light as if it were a robe, spreading out the sky like a canopy,

International Standard Version
you are wrapped in light like a garment, stretching out the sky like a curtain.

NET Bible
He covers himself with light as if it were a garment. He stretches out the skies like a tent curtain,

New Heart English Bible
He covers himself with light as with a garment. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He is covered in light like a cloak. He has stretched out Heaven like a curtain.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
You cover yourself with light as though it were a robe. You stretch out the heavens as though they were curtains.

JPS Tanakh 1917
Who coverest Thyself with light as with a garment, Who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain;

New American Standard 1977
Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain.

King James 2000 Bible
Who covers yourself with light as with a garment: who stretches out the heavens like a curtain:

American King James Version
Who cover yourself with light as with a garment: who stretch out the heavens like a curtain:

American Standard Version
Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment; Who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain;

Brenton Septuagint Translation
who dost robe thyself with light as with a garment; spreading out the heaven as a curtain.

Douay-Rheims Bible
and art clothed with light as with a garment. Who stretchest out the heaven like a pavilion:

Darby Bible Translation
Covering thyself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent-curtain; --

English Revised Version
Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment; who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Webster's Bible Translation
Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

World English Bible
He covers himself with light as with a garment. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain.

Young's Literal Translation
Covering himself with light as a garment, Stretching out the heavens as a curtain,

 

[Picaro]

One of the better sites for keeping up with the latest in the scientific theories and handwaves re 'evolution' versus Intelligent Design:

One moment, please...

Some readings worth a read or two, plus links to further stuff:

The Royal Society's Evolution Meeting: James MacAllister / Why Neo-Darwinism was the Biggest Mistake in the History of Science

James MacAllister is the volunteer archivist for the Lynn Margulis archive at the University of Massachussetts-Amherst. Jim runs envevo.org, the

evo2.org

Trouble In Origin Of Life Paradise

James Tour, a renowned nanochemist at Rice University, has been openly critical of Origin Of Life literature for being too optimistic, too sanguine and at

evo2.org

One of my favorites:

Gödel's Incompleteness: The #1 Mathematical Breakthrough of the 20th Century

In 1931 a landmark discovery was made by the great mathematician Kurt Gödel. It is probably as important as anything Einstein's theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. It not only applies to mathematics but literally all branches of science and human knowledge. It has truly earth-shattering...

evo2.org

In any case, a lot of stuff and links to lots more stuff of interest to this particular debate.' Neo-Darwinism' is running into the same problems as the old discredited 'Darwinism' rebutted in the 1970's by mathematicians.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Without GOD everything would be permanently formless and void. All design has form.

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah. Get to the part where intelligent design contradicts our scientific knowledge and stop wasting everyone's time.

 

[emilynghiem]

If our existence was but a coincidence, what might be the odds of such a coincidence?

And next, we'll prove that God not only exists
but has a sadistic sense of humor:

Read just one thread in the Flame Zone.
Whoever created those clowns?
Voila! Q.E.D.

 

[foggedinn]

I am an anointed, altar touched, Master of the Law who did an impossible thing in Pascagoula on Rosh Hashana in 1983. To the depth my soul I believe that I am the Son of Perdition.

We are a genetically engineered species. God made. Every Word of God is engineered into us, into our genetic matrix.

Our body is a temple and this temple has an altar. Moses told us to make no tool marks on the altar. Through the use of recombinate DNA and gene splicing technologies, we have put tool marks on the altar which is in us.

I have been taught and I believe, both because of my altar experience and what happened in 1983, that this is the Abomination of Desolation. It passes from parent to child. There is no fixing it.

When the two are working in the field and one is taken up and the other left behind, The one left behind has been touched by the abomination, perhaps 10 or 15 generations past.

There is good news also. I will soon be taken out of the way and you get to enjoy 1000 years of peace before the end.

Is this proof? It is to an altar touched man.

 

[harmonica]

Man isn't the designer and Creator of the Universe. Man is presently in a fallen state and from the time of Adam has been moving further away from GOD. Order cannot originate from disorder.

for that to be true, there has to be a god first

I've given you plenty of proof that GOD must exist. You simply have an ulterior motive to pretend that HE doesn't. You have not presented proof to the contrary.

there it is----again hahhahahah
..that has to be one of the most idiotic replies ever--that you believers use
no--YOU claimed it initially -YOU have to prove it
..it's like in court--the prosecutor claims something, he has to prove it
..no you haven't given any proof and no one can
..I can claim that jesus served me dinner on the moon--I guess you would believe that?!!? you can't prove it's not true

 

[LittleNipper]

If our existence was but a coincidence, what might be the odds of such a coincidence?

And next, we'll prove that God not only exists
but has a sadistic sense of humor:

Read just one thread in the Flame Zone.
Whoever created those clowns?
Voila! Q.E.D.

GOD doesn't have a sadistic humor. It is man who wishes to live life as a sadist and expel GOD from one's selected lifestyle orgies. Clearly, GOD hates the murder of innocent babies and actions that continuously places those HE loves in peril. GOD will not force HIMSELF on anyone and yet the alternative is eternal separation from GOD. All the horrible nations that were to be driven out or annihilated from the Promised land practiced barbaric sacrifices towards infants of the most horrific sort. They were often burned alive...

 

[LittleNipper]

Without GOD everything would be permanently formless and void. All design has form.

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah. Get to the part where intelligent design contradicts our scientific knowledge and stop wasting everyone's time.

Heaven forbid! Clearly it is you who contradicts scientific observation and tries to manipulate opinion through intimidation. You can stop wasting everyone else's time by merely reading what you will and remaining undisruptively silent.

 

[LittleNipper]

And so our perception is clouded and time is relative. GOD clearly has the total picture and reveals to us truth which some simply choose to ignore, overlook or misappropriate when we ignore GOD.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Without GOD everything would be permanently formless and void. All design has form.

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah. Get to the part where intelligent design contradicts our scientific knowledge and stop wasting everyone's time.

Heaven forbid! Clearly it is you who contradicts scientific observation and tries to manipulate opinion through intimidation. You can stop wasting everyone else's time by merely reading what you will and remaining undisruptively silent.

Cute whining! But when you are done dancing and prancing and preening, state clearly your specific claim that contradicts our current scientific knowledge. That is why you are here. Spare us the theatrics. Go, grow a pair and state it clearly.

 

[LittleNipper]

Without GOD everything would be permanently formless and void. All design has form.

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah. Get to the part where intelligent design contradicts our scientific knowledge and stop wasting everyone's time.

Heaven forbid! Clearly it is you who contradicts scientific observation and tries to manipulate opinion through intimidation. You can stop wasting everyone else's time by merely reading what you will and remaining undisruptively silent.

Cute whining! But when you are done dancing and prancing and preening, state clearly your specific claim that contradicts our current scientific knowledge. That is why you are here. Spare us the theatrics. Go, grow a pair and state it clearly.

You show me the contradictions using math and scientific observation. I've already made a basket--- the ball is now in your court...

 

[alang1216]

Dude, it is exactly the argument I made. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Some behaviors lead to better outcomes (abstinence) and some behaviors lead to worse outcomes (promiscuity).

And I agreed with you. I just added that similar behaviors can lead to very different outcomes.

We aren’t talking about similar behaviors.

Standards exist for a reason. You may not realize it but you are arguing against standards. That’s illogical.

Ahhh, standards. I do love them. I especially like that there are so many to choose from.

 

[ding]

Dude, it is exactly the argument I made. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Some behaviors lead to better outcomes (abstinence) and some behaviors lead to worse outcomes (promiscuity).

And I agreed with you. I just added that similar behaviors can lead to very different outcomes.

We aren’t talking about similar behaviors.

Standards exist for a reason. You may not realize it but you are arguing against standards. That’s illogical.

Ahhh, standards. I do love them. I especially like that there are so many to choose from.

True, but only the highest one is free from predictable surprises. The ones that deviate from that standard are what we call normalization of deviance. And those are eventually accompanied by predictable surprises.

Do you believe that logic is independent of man? In other words, can make make logic be anything he wants it to be or does logic determine what really is?

 

[alang1216]

Dude, it is exactly the argument I made. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Some behaviors lead to better outcomes (abstinence) and some behaviors lead to worse outcomes (promiscuity).

And I agreed with you. I just added that similar behaviors can lead to very different outcomes.

We aren’t talking about similar behaviors.

Standards exist for a reason. You may not realize it but you are arguing against standards. That’s illogical.

Ahhh, standards. I do love them. I especially like that there are so many to choose from.

True, but only the highest one is free from predictable surprises. The ones that deviate from that standard are what we call normalization of deviance. And those are eventually accompanied by predictable surprises.

Do you believe that logic is independent of man? In other words, can make make logic be anything he wants it to be or does logic determine what really is?

Although logic is absolute and independent of man, it must take human strengths and weaknesses into account when dealing with people.

 

[Hollie]

SO, atheists want scientific theory from a physicist. Well here is a physicist who looks at Einstein's theory of Relativity and noted something odd in regards to time.

Encyclopedia of American Loons

It’s … The Encyclopedia of American loons! Our new and exciting series presenting a representative sample of American loons from A-Z.

americanloons.blogspot.com

His books include titles like The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom (reviewed e.g. here) a book that has generated research such as Andrew Mark Sibley “A Photon Reference Frame and Distant Starlight: Analyzing Ideas from Gerald L. Schroeder’s The Science of God” published in the venerable Answers Research Journal, Answers in Genesis's house journal. Schroeder’s most famous book is presumably The Hidden Face of God, however, since it apparently impressed ex-atheist Antony Flew during his conversion process; it is reviewed here (“[n]o one should read this tiresome book for any serious purpose other than to find examples of popular science-abuse”). Given Schroeder’s background, the most striking characteristic, apart from its New Age-style handwavings, is perhaps the many misinterpretations of and obvious errors in the physics he describes.
Diagnosis: At least he is pretty clear that what he is doing is fundie dogmatism: start with the conclusion you like, try to make the data fit and just reject whatever doesn’t. But Schroeder is also something of a star in the creationist movement, and seems to spend quite a bit of effort promoting denialism. He must accordingly be considered a moderate threat to civilization and human flourishing

 

[Hollie]

It is true that math proves the existence of God. E=Mc^2 is an example as are the fine tuned ratios of the 4 primary forces of physics: Gravity, electromagnetic, strong nuclear force and weak nuclear force. Many scientists have noted this as our literature notes here for example:

How Did Our Universe Get Here?—The Controversy — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

See the subheading "fine tuning."

Note that is is not just math that proves God's existence - related but much more extensive are all of the fine tuned properties of our universe that made the creation of life as we know it possible. It is also the very laws governing our universe which proves God's existence:

Job 38:33
Do you know the laws governing the heavens,+
Or can you impose their* authority on the earth?

Thankfully, most of these laws do have authority on earth for scientists to study them - one reason I love science. Romans 1:20 states another reason.

Bottom line: you cannot have laws without a lawgiver.

It's a false claim that math proves the existence of gods. Which gods are ''proved'' by math?

The equation E=Mc^2 clearly is not an example of something creationists call "fine tuning".

 

[Hollie]

If our existence was but a coincidence, what might be the odds of such a coincidence?

Typical creationist blathering.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You show me the contradictions using math and scientific observation.

No, that's stupid. Scientists have spent 200 years compiling the evidence that shows you are a fraud. All the burden is om you, son.

Now go on, grow a pair and claim the earth isn't 4.54 billion years old, or that evolution didn't happen. That is why you are here.