Zone1 So if I am a Christian, why am I calling people Moron and Neanderthal?

[Meriweather]

You have meditation confused with repetition. And it is even used as an absolution of sin. Say 5 hail Marys...
Out of Jesus' mouth at the sermon on the mount, came, When ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking”
Vain ~ empty or useless.
It is a pagan practice, that takes the place of a sincere conversation. If you use it as a preamble to meditating on Jesus, then it may be counted as righteousness on your part, but it is no substitute for a heart to heart talk with our Father. Why not just talk to Him instead?

Sigh.

 

[Meriweather]

My thank yous are repetitive.

Oh. So you don't believe God knows what is in your heart. Either you don't believe God already knows, or you do believe God knows and your prayer is useless. Just rote. Just dogma.

(See what I did there?)

I believe Jesus was reminding us that Prayer is a treasure. The Jews of his own time said (and still say) some beautiful prayers. As it should be. Jesus was pointing out prayer is more that ritual, more than dogma. It is more than "Time for that prayer, now time for this prayer." God knows what we need. In fact, He is fighting for us.

When we criticize another's prayer, another's dogma, that is focusing on the splinter. Our ancestors, our fore-bearers, found a gleam of truth they passes on to us with love. We can either stomp on it, stomp it out or treat it tenderly so it might grow in a ray of light it has the potential to become. Because God is fighting for us, and hopefully with us. Us. It is why we pray together. Let's keep it holy.

 

[The Irish Ram]

When we criticize another's prayer, another's dogma, that is focusing on the splinter

Sometimes it's to keep others from going down a path or ideology that strays from the Word.

Jesus criticized another's prayer. He criticized the Pharisees that quoted the Law in public, and who quoted the Law, but omitted love. He criticized the heathens for praying useless words like a mantra, and described what they were worth. He criticized the pagans for worshiping false gods.
Thing is, if Jesus said not to do it, it's hard to support it. It is Catholicism, but it is not Biblical.

 

[1miseryindex]

You have meditation confused with repetition. And it is even used as an absolution of sin. Say 5 hail Marys...
Out of Jesus' mouth at the sermon on the mount, came, When ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking”
Vain ~ empty or useless.
It is a pagan practice, that takes the place of a sincere conversation. If you use it as a preamble to meditating on Jesus, then it may be counted as righteousness on your part, but it is no substitute for a heart to heart talk with our Father. Why not just talk to Him instead?

You apparently have not heard the parable Jesus told of the persistent widow. She REPEATED her request over and over to the judge who finally gave in, not because he respected either God or man, as the parable says, but because she kept pestering him.

It is only wrong or vain repetition to pray over and over for something God has told you No about

Then there's the fact that the rosary is what made me a practicing Christian, obedient to Christ's Church (and there is only ONE of those)

 

[1miseryindex]

If she did, she gave them poor advice. A rosary is prayer beads attached to rote praying. Jesus described rote praying as something not to do:

Matt 6:7-9 "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. Therefore do not be like them.

God wants to hear from your heart. He wants communication, not repetition.

well, I guess Jesus contradicts himself, according to you?

There is the parable of the persistent widow.

It is when you think that your many words will get you what you want that there is a problem. He speaks against VAIN repetitions, not prayerful, meditative ones that focus on HIM and His life.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You can ask for something over and over. That is not the same as a mantra. King David begged and pleaded to God not to take his baby, over and over, for days. And then got up and went about his business when God made his decision.
If you believe that Mary appeared to 3 children and told them to use a rosary, then Mary is contradicting Christ.

He speaks against VAIN repetitions, not prayerful, meditative ones that focus on HIM and His life.

So do I. The rosary is repetitive. 10 hail Marys is repetitive and puts the focus on Mary. It simply isn't necessary. Jesus does condone prayer and meditation. He wants to hear what is in your heart.
The rosary was brought about by St. Dominic who said Mary gave him the beads and the prayers and Dominic was devoted to.....Mary. It takes your eyes off of Christ.
Religious dogma should correlate with scripture, not oppose it. Jesus called repetition useless words, engaged in by heathens. Why then would Mary suggest you say 50 hail Mary's? None of the disciples, including Peter suggested using beads and a set of words to help you remember to pray and meditate. If you need them, then use them, but you really don't need them to talk to our Father.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So if I am a Christian, why am I calling people Moron and Neanderthal?​

A. You're human.

B. You may not be wrong.

 

[Meriweather]

but it is not Biblical.

I know that is a stumbling block for non-Catholic Christians. Catholics and Orthodox also go back to Apostolic traditions, which were in play before the books of the Bible became Canon. Non-Catholic Christians decided Apostolic traditions weren't that important.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus criticized another's prayer. He criticized the Pharisees that quoted the Law in public, and who quoted the Law, but omitted love. He criticized the heathens for praying useless words like a mantra, and described what they were worth. He criticized the pagans for worshiping false gods.

You have offered some good excuses for your not praying the rosary or within a community. There are only a few like you. Most Catholics and non-Catholic Christians who do not pray the Rosary would no more find an excuse for this than they would find an excuse for not praying Hebrew prayers, three times a day. Why three days? Prayers are obviously to God, and in honor of the three patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Horrors in your sight, right--the reason for saying three prayers in honor of three human patriarchs! I find it touching, because within these prayers family and community can be seen.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then there's the fact that the rosary is what made me a practicing Christian, obedient to Christ's Church (and there is only ONE of those)

That is a telling statement. Who are you obedient to again? Christ? The Father? No, you are obedient to a church. If the church tells you not to eat meat on Fri. are you obedient? Then when the church changes it's mind, are you still obedient or do you eat meat on Fri. because the church said it was ok?
Do babies still have to work out their salvation in purgatory? Of course not, and they never did. That was incorrect and non biblical dogma.

If your church is the only ONE, then when He returns, will you be visiting Jesus at His residence in the Vatican? Where else would He be, right?
The Bible thinks He is going to take up residence in Jerusalem. In a Temple, because He is a Jewish Rabbi. And the 7 candlesticks (churches) Jesus speaks of in Rev. are going to be there with Him. Why isn't the Catholic Church, at least the #1 candlestick? The one and only church you are obedient to isn't even mentioned. Tell me why that is...

 

[The Irish Ram]

I know that is a stumbling block for non-Catholic Christians. Catholics and Orthodox also go back to Apostolic traditions, which were in play before the books of the Bible became Canon. Non-Catholic Christians decided Apostolic traditions weren't that important.

Recognizing something as not being biblical isn't a stumbling block, it is using the Bible for:
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Think of the damage that was done by telling parents of a dead child that it isn't in Heaven, but in limbo, in purgatory, having to work to get to God, when the Bible says the opposite. That was a Catholic tradition. Paul said otherwise. Absent from the body is present with the Lord.

Non Catholics keep to tradition. We thank God for our food. We practice communion. We baptize, and we praise God in the community to name a few.

And without horror, and since my God is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Joseph, and my Bible is the history of the Jewish people past, present, and future, there is no problem if you'd like to pray a Jewish prayer, or read David's psalms or Solomon. There would be no need for you to repeat, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."over and over and over 10 times though. And at the end of the day there is this:

Gal. 5 For in Christ, neither our most conscientious religion nor disregard of religion amounts to anything. What matters is something far more interior: faith expressed in love.

 

[Meriweather]

There would be no need

And that is why I would choose Judaism over any non-Catholic/Orthodox Christian sect. Too much, "There is no need".

 

[The Irish Ram]

So you'd prefer 600+ rules to live by, (and if you break one you are guilty of breaking them all) instead of Christ's salvation? That would make church more important than Christ in your life.
I don't believe that, Meriweather...
We are in the end times and and only a remnant of the Jews will survive it. I'd rather return with Christ to prevent them all from being annihilated...

 

[Meriweather]

So you'd prefer 600+ rules to live by, (and if you break one you are guilty of breaking them all) instead of Christ's salvation? That would make church more important than Christ in your life.
I don't believe that, Meriweather...
We are in the end times and and only a remnant of the Jews will survive it. I'd rather return with Christ to prevent them all from being annihilated...

We see things differently. First, Jews are to be a light for the Gentiles. Next, I hold no belief in "End Times" is around the corner. Here is why I relate more to Jews than to non-Catholic Christianity:

Jesus taught us to discern the will of God and follow it. In other words, to be obedient. In Hebrew, 'worship' is a combination of service, work, praise, thanksgiving. This is all do and given to God. Some non-Catholic Christian sects seem to behave as though God works, serves (in other words) worships us. Christ did not redeem the world so that the disobedience of Adam and Eve (mankind) no longer matters. Go ahead! Believe and be saved! No more worries about disobedience.

If we break one law, we break them all, the in follows that if we follow one law we follow them all. Both are fallacies Our obedience is not perfect, but neither is our disobedience.

Christ is the Word of God. I am saying Jews are the better example and followers of being obedient to the Word of God. They have work/service/praise/thanksgiving (worship) directed towards God and His Word, not vice-versa.

 

[The Irish Ram]

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

It does not say if you keep one, you have kept them all. To the contrary, that is why there were different sacrifices for different offenses.
God's view of His chosen people differs from yours.
He has called them disobedient, wicked, whiners, always insisting on a sign. He tells them not to take spoils, they take spoils. He tells them not to let Haman's ancestor live and the Jews were nearly wiped out because they disobeyed. He started dropping them like flies when they decided to kill Moses. Moses left them to meet God on the mountain top, and they reverted to idol worship the minute he was gone. They literally ask God to leave His own Temple. They missed the hour of their visitation, and were instrumental in the crucifixion of Christ. They have scales on their eyes at present, and will make a deal with the devil which gives away Jewish land. And because of it, 1/3 of them will perish, and then 1/3 of the 1/3 that is left will also perish.
As hard as they work at trying to obey the Law, they still break it.
Do you think they were any more pious than Billy Graham, or you for example? Their works are filthy rags to God. Your praise in Jesus' name makes God dance over you. There is no work that trumps your faith, Meriweather...

 

[Meriweather]

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

It does not say if you keep one, you have kept them all. To the contrary, that is why there were different sacrifices for different offenses.
God's view of His chosen people differs from yours.
He has called them disobedient, wicked, whiners, always insisting on a sign. He tells them not to take spoils, they take spoils. He tells them not to let Haman's ancestor live and the Jews were nearly wiped out because they disobeyed. He started dropping them like flies when they decided to kill Moses. Moses left them to meet God on the mountain top, and they reverted to idol worship the minute he was gone. They literally ask God to leave His own Temple. They missed the hour of their visitation, and were instrumental in the crucifixion of Christ. They have scales on their eyes at present, and will make a deal with the devil which gives away Jewish land. And because of it, 1/3 of them will perish, and then 1/3 of the 1/3 that is left will also perish.
As hard as they work at trying to obey the Law, they still break it.
Do you think they were any more pious than Billy Graham, or you for example? Their works are filthy rags to God. Your praise in Jesus' name makes God dance over you. There is no work that trumps your faith, Meriweather...

James is referencing a specific law. He is saying if one shoplifts a candy bar, he is still a thief even though he did not commit grand theft auto. The candy bar shoplifter (and even the thief who stole the auto) are not guilty of murder. James was noting the law of love where one loves another as they love themselves. In the chapter above he notes treating a wealthy man with preference is breaking that law of love if he is given preference over the poor man. Loving almost everyone the same and stealing a trinket breaks a particular law not all laws.

Say both a Christian and a Jew steal a book. Have both committed a transgression against God?

All Jewish law is directed either at loving God or loving one's fellowman. James is saying that keeping the law because it enhances one's reputation or even pride is not the purpose of the Law. When loving God and loving one's fellowman comes from the heart, no law is needed. Take kosher law for example: One can keep kosher law out of love of God and also love of their heritage/community. Or, one can keep kosher law because it's expected of him, but the heart really isn't in it. He's not doing it for love of God or love of heritage/community. He just does it.

Think about it. As often and as hard as you try to love God above all, and love other people as yourself, do you always succeed? Do you consider these failings as a transgression against God and/or your fellow man?

No. Service to God is not considered "filthy rags". What is considered filthy rags is humans calling good which is clearly filth in God's eyes. A few examples: Slavery, abortion, gender transition, legalizing drugs, alcohol buzz. Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned are certainly not filthy rags in God's sight. Jesus notes those who do those to the least are doing it to him.

As James 2 says a few verses later: Show me your faith without works, and I shall show you my faith by my works

 

[presonorek]

I was feeling guilty about this yesterday, but then I realized that I am not really speaking, when I say such things, to the human person but to the Satan behind him/her.

Yep, it's a true story. It is the evil I hate, not the evil-doer, although I AM human and sometimes... sigh.. hard to separate those 2, to say the least.

Anyway, God showed me (long story how) some time ago that the one I really despise is Satan, who whispers in everyone's ears and tells them to defy God and his Commandments. I actually feel sorry for those who listen to that pos.

The Virgin Mary appeared to 3 peasant children in Portugal in 1917 and told them to pray the rosary and to offer up their sufferings for souls on their way to Hell.

That is what she wants from everyone. She just went through children because... for one, they are teachable.

The only reason I listen to Satan is because he is more accessible to God. If God would visit me as much as Satan does then I might start valuing his opinion. To be honest though, neither God nor Satan visits me. I'm left to grabble with this chaos on my own just like you are.

If I am wrong, what date did God visit you? What did He look like? What did He say? How long did He stay? On the same note: When did Satan visit you? What did he look like? What did he say? How long did he stay?

Nevermind. I know the answers to all of these questions. So do you and so does every single person reading this thread. The dishonest really gets to me sometimes. I don't even know how to deal with it.

Maybe I'll just call people Moron, Liar, and Neanderthal. You aren't so bad. That is the way to deal with the scum of the earth liars who pretend they know what God wants.

 

[ding]

The only reason I listen to Satan is because he is more accessible to God. If God would visit me as much as Satan does then I might start valuing his opinion. To be honest though, neither God nor Satan visits me. I'm left to grabble with this chaos on my own just like you are.

If I am wrong, what date did God visit you? What did He look like? What did He say? How long did He stay? On the same note: When did Satan visit you? What did he look like? What did he say? How long did he stay?

Nevermind. I know the answers to all of these questions. So do you and so does every single person reading this thread. The dishonest really gets to me sometimes. I don't even know how to deal with it.

Maybe I'll just call people Moron, Liar, and Neanderthal. You aren't so bad. That is the way to deal with the scum of the earth liars who pretend they know what God wants.

As bad as this sounds, you might be one of the more sane people on this board. Not that I think you are sane or anything.

 

[1miseryindex]

You have meditation confused with repetition. And it is even used as an absolution of sin. Say 5 hail Marys...
Out of Jesus' mouth at the sermon on the mount, came, When ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking”
Vain ~ empty or useless.
It is a pagan practice, that takes the place of a sincere conversation. If you use it as a preamble to meditating on Jesus, then it may be counted as righteousness on your part, but it is no substitute for a heart to heart talk with our Father. Why not just talk to Him instead?

You are wrong as can be. Again, the rosary was what made me a Christian, what got to finally seeing things in a more Christian way. Anything that does that is NOT bad no matter what you say. And again, Jesus was talking about repeating useless, vain prayers, not things like the rosary that are a meditation on the life of Christ

 

[1miseryindex]

The only reason I listen to Satan is because he is more accessible to God. If God would visit me as much as Satan does then I might start valuing his opinion. To be honest though, neither God nor Satan visits me. I'm left to grabble with this chaos on my own just like you are.

If I am wrong, what date did God visit you? What did He look like? What did He say? How long did He stay? On the same note: When did Satan visit you? What did he look like? What did he say? How long did he stay?

Nevermind. I know the answers to all of these questions. So do you and so does every single person reading this thread. The dishonest really gets to me sometimes. I don't even know how to deal with it.

Maybe I'll just call people Moron, Liar, and Neanderthal. You aren't so bad. That is the way to deal with the scum of the earth liars who pretend they know what God wants.

I'm not getting everything you wrote here. And no one on the forum has claimed to know God perfectly. I certainly don't understand how He seems to let certain people do evil and even seems to reward them (in this life). I mean, the immoral in Hollywood come to mind. They do every evil under thesun, yet they have everything anyone could want (that money can buy, that is)

But oh well. God is mystery