So Biden Would Not Answer To Why He Never Contacted Portland To Stop The Democrat Riot. Gee, Why? Was He Just Too Busy? Watching Netflix?

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

My point is that barring significant accumulations of wealth, which was rare, the hardships of one generation do NOT impact the next, white or black.


Your pretense that blacks are so alien that we cannot examine their experience in comparison to our own, I reject.


The Great Depression, WWII, there were hard on my dad's generation. The impact of those hardships were not transferred to me. I did not suffer from them. It would be lame of me to pretend I did.


WWI? Previous bad times? Not even memories. The Civil War? The oppression of being Scots in the United Kingdom? Ancient history to me. If I was a lib, I guess I could use that as an excuse to be an ass to brits today.


But, I'm not that person. That is not my game. Hell, my dad did not even raise me to hate Japanese people, and he had cause.

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

My point is that barring significant accumulations of wealth, which was rare, the hardships of one generation do NOT impact the next, white or black.


Your pretense that blacks are so alien that we cannot examine their experience in comparison to our own, I reject.


The Great Depression, WWII, there were hard on my dad's generation. The impact of those hardships were not transferred to me. I did not suffer from them. It would be lame of me to pretend I did.


WWI? Previous bad times? Not even memories. The Civil War? The oppression of being Scots in the United Kingdom? Ancient history to me. If I was a lib, I guess I could use that as an excuse to be an ass to brits today.


But, I'm not that person. That is not my game. Hell, my dad did not even raise me to hate Japanese people, and he had cause.

You reject my pretense because you lack comprehension of the effects of history. Yes many white people suffered during WW1 and the depression. Many poor white immigrants moved here woth nothing. Imagine that experience while also being oppressed as a Black in America. You’re completely out of touch if you don’t think past generations impact future generations. How many family’s built a business and then passed it along to their kids? How many kids went to the same school as their parents. Or even had the opportunity to go to college? How many kids got a job at their fathers company or through a contact that their father had? How many kids Inherited houses and wealth from their parents? The answer is many white families and few to no blacks if we are looking back generations. That’s because Blacks were not legally given the ability or opportunity to build anything. How are you not processing this? This isn’t political it’s just facts and history

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

My point is that barring significant accumulations of wealth, which was rare, the hardships of one generation do NOT impact the next, white or black.


Your pretense that blacks are so alien that we cannot examine their experience in comparison to our own, I reject.


The Great Depression, WWII, there were hard on my dad's generation. The impact of those hardships were not transferred to me. I did not suffer from them. It would be lame of me to pretend I did.


WWI? Previous bad times? Not even memories. The Civil War? The oppression of being Scots in the United Kingdom? Ancient history to me. If I was a lib, I guess I could use that as an excuse to be an ass to brits today.


But, I'm not that person. That is not my game. Hell, my dad did not even raise me to hate Japanese people, and he had cause.

You reject my pretense because you lack comprehension of the effects of history. Yes many white people suffered during WW1 and the depression. Many poor white immigrants moved here woth nothing. Imagine that experience while also being oppressed as a Black in America. You’re completely out of touch if you don’t think past generations impact future generations. How many family’s built a business and then passed it along to their kids? How many kids went to the same school as their parents. Or even had the opportunity to go to college? How many kids got a job at their fathers company or through a contact that their father had? How many kids Inherited houses and wealth from their parents? The answer is many white families and few to no blacks if we are looking back generations. That’s because Blacks were not legally given the ability or opportunity to build anything. How are you not processing this? This isn’t political it’s just facts and history

I disagree with your premise and I explained why. You going straight to your assumption that it must be because I don't understand, is just you having a closed mind.


My point stands. Yes, I understand about how wealth can accumulate across generations. I also understand how easily it can NOT do so, and not just for blacks.


Yes, a some whites got jobs because their families connections. For the last 50 years, that has been more than balanced by blacks being discriminated in favor of by legally required and enforced racist discrimination.

AND more and more, blacks are in a position to use those types of connections themselves.


It is time to stop discrimination against whites, especially poor and middle class whites, who have done nothing to deserve this, and who have benefitted little from past injustices, if at all.

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

My point is... The policies you are calling racist and unjust now would also have to be labeled as such back in the 60s. The justification for those laws in the aftermath of the civil rights act, fresh off of obvious, and acknowledged racial discrimination in our legal system, to me is a no brainer. We should be able to agree that restitution through law to help right the wrongs that led to disadvantages through poverty and low education of a high percentage of the black population would be a good and just thing. If we can agree on that then the debate should be about effectiveness of those efforts, what else if anything can be done, and when certain laws should expire. But you’re trying to take it to a different place by calling the laws racist against whites. When I ask about the justifications for initiating those laws you give weak non answers, I’m guessing because you understand what I just laid out and didn’t want to walk yourself into a hole.

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

My point is that barring significant accumulations of wealth, which was rare, the hardships of one generation do NOT impact the next, white or black.


Your pretense that blacks are so alien that we cannot examine their experience in comparison to our own, I reject.


The Great Depression, WWII, there were hard on my dad's generation. The impact of those hardships were not transferred to me. I did not suffer from them. It would be lame of me to pretend I did.


WWI? Previous bad times? Not even memories. The Civil War? The oppression of being Scots in the United Kingdom? Ancient history to me. If I was a lib, I guess I could use that as an excuse to be an ass to brits today.


But, I'm not that person. That is not my game. Hell, my dad did not even raise me to hate Japanese people, and he had cause.

You reject my pretense because you lack comprehension of the effects of history. Yes many white people suffered during WW1 and the depression. Many poor white immigrants moved here woth nothing. Imagine that experience while also being oppressed as a Black in America. You’re completely out of touch if you don’t think past generations impact future generations. How many family’s built a business and then passed it along to their kids? How many kids went to the same school as their parents. Or even had the opportunity to go to college? How many kids got a job at their fathers company or through a contact that their father had? How many kids Inherited houses and wealth from their parents? The answer is many white families and few to no blacks if we are looking back generations. That’s because Blacks were not legally given the ability or opportunity to build anything. How are you not processing this? This isn’t political it’s just facts and history

I disagree with your premise and I explained why. You going straight to your assumption that it must be because I don't understand, is just you having a closed mind.


My point stands. Yes, I understand about how wealth can accumulate across generations. I also understand how easily it can NOT do so, and not just for blacks.


Yes, a some whites got jobs because their families connections. For the last 50 years, that has been more than balanced by blacks being discriminated in favor of by legally required and enforced racist discrimination.

AND more and more, blacks are in a position to use those types of connections themselves.


It is time to stop discrimination against whites, especially poor and middle class whites, who have done nothing to deserve this, and who have benefitted little from past injustices, if at all.

You are contradicting yourself. You acknowledge that white recurved asvantages through our legal system to gain wealth, power and employment that blacks could not because of a racist legal system. But then you call laws put in place to fix some of the damage those laws caused, racist discrimination against whites. I’m sorry but that’s bullshit. Racist discrimination is defined as unjust. Given our history and disgusting racist elements of our society those laws were more than justified. And just because those loses have been in place for 50 years that doesn’t mean all is good. We can debate that sure, but the fact you call those laws racist and unjust just shows that you don’t understand why they are justified. It would be my argument that your attitude and perspective clearly shows why those laws are just and why they should still be in place. We have come a long way since the civil rights act but there are still many people like you who just don’t get it... we still have a long way to go

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

My point is... The policies you are calling racist and unjust now would also have to be labeled as such back in the 60s. The justification for those laws in the aftermath of the civil rights act, fresh off of obvious, and acknowledged racial discrimination in our legal system, to me is a no brainer. We should be able to agree that restitution through law to help right the wrongs that led to disadvantages through poverty and low education of a high percentage of the black population would be a good and just thing. If we can agree on that then the debate should be about effectiveness of those efforts, what else if anything can be done, and when certain laws should expire. But you’re trying to take it to a different place by calling the laws racist against whites. When I ask about the justifications for initiating those laws you give weak non answers, I’m guessing because you understand what I just laid out and didn’t want to walk yourself into a hole.

1. I do not agree that the way to address past discrimination is to balance it with reverse discrimination today and in the future.


2. The laws and programs ARE racist against whites. Discriminating against people on the basis of race is racist. That is what you are doing, and if you are serious in your support, playing word games to deny your actions, is cowardly and dishonest.


3. I gave the answer because it is difficult to be sure how I would have responded in a time period before I was born.

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

My point is... The policies you are calling racist and unjust now would also have to be labeled as such back in the 60s. The justification for those laws in the aftermath of the civil rights act, fresh off of obvious, and acknowledged racial discrimination in our legal system, to me is a no brainer. We should be able to agree that restitution through law to help right the wrongs that led to disadvantages through poverty and low education of a high percentage of the black population would be a good and just thing. If we can agree on that then the debate should be about effectiveness of those efforts, what else if anything can be done, and when certain laws should expire. But you’re trying to take it to a different place by calling the laws racist against whites. When I ask about the justifications for initiating those laws you give weak non answers, I’m guessing because you understand what I just laid out and didn’t want to walk yourself into a hole.

1. I do not agree that the way to address past discrimination is to balance it with reverse discrimination today and in the future.


2. The laws and programs ARE racist against whites. Discriminating against people on the basis of race is racist. That is what you are doing, and if you are serious in your support, playing word games to deny your actions, is cowardly and dishonest.


3. I gave the answer because it is difficult to be sure how I would have responded in a time period before I was born.

Well put some thought into it. Let’s say we just passed the civil rights act and reversed Jim Crow laws that literally oppressed blacks for over a century. What do you do next? Give me some ideas on how to handle this in a non racist way...

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

My point is that barring significant accumulations of wealth, which was rare, the hardships of one generation do NOT impact the next, white or black.


Your pretense that blacks are so alien that we cannot examine their experience in comparison to our own, I reject.


The Great Depression, WWII, there were hard on my dad's generation. The impact of those hardships were not transferred to me. I did not suffer from them. It would be lame of me to pretend I did.


WWI? Previous bad times? Not even memories. The Civil War? The oppression of being Scots in the United Kingdom? Ancient history to me. If I was a lib, I guess I could use that as an excuse to be an ass to brits today.


But, I'm not that person. That is not my game. Hell, my dad did not even raise me to hate Japanese people, and he had cause.

You reject my pretense because you lack comprehension of the effects of history. Yes many white people suffered during WW1 and the depression. Many poor white immigrants moved here woth nothing. Imagine that experience while also being oppressed as a Black in America. You’re completely out of touch if you don’t think past generations impact future generations. How many family’s built a business and then passed it along to their kids? How many kids went to the same school as their parents. Or even had the opportunity to go to college? How many kids got a job at their fathers company or through a contact that their father had? How many kids Inherited houses and wealth from their parents? The answer is many white families and few to no blacks if we are looking back generations. That’s because Blacks were not legally given the ability or opportunity to build anything. How are you not processing this? This isn’t political it’s just facts and history

I disagree with your premise and I explained why. You going straight to your assumption that it must be because I don't understand, is just you having a closed mind.


My point stands. Yes, I understand about how wealth can accumulate across generations. I also understand how easily it can NOT do so, and not just for blacks.


Yes, a some whites got jobs because their families connections. For the last 50 years, that has been more than balanced by blacks being discriminated in favor of by legally required and enforced racist discrimination.

AND more and more, blacks are in a position to use those types of connections themselves.


It is time to stop discrimination against whites, especially poor and middle class whites, who have done nothing to deserve this, and who have benefitted little from past injustices, if at all.

You are contradicting yourself. You acknowledge that white recurved asvantages through our legal system to gain wealth, power and employment that blacks could not because of a racist legal system. But then you call laws put in place to fix some of the damage those laws caused, racist discrimination against whites. I’m sorry but that’s bullshit. Racist discrimination is defined as unjust. Given our history and disgusting racist elements of our society those laws were more than justified. And just because those loses have been in place for 50 years that doesn’t mean all is good. We can debate that sure, but the fact you call those laws racist and unjust just shows that you don’t understand why they are justified. It would be my argument that your attitude and perspective clearly shows why those laws are just and why they should still be in place. We have come a long way since the civil rights act but there are still many people like you who just don’t get it... we still have a long way to go

Discriminating against a group of people, because of race, is racist discrimination.


That you think it is justified does not change that. That you support it, makes you racist.


We do have a long way to go. We have a massive system of system racist discrimination and racism operating in our society today, crushing the hope and dreams of millions.

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

My point is that barring significant accumulations of wealth, which was rare, the hardships of one generation do NOT impact the next, white or black.


Your pretense that blacks are so alien that we cannot examine their experience in comparison to our own, I reject.


The Great Depression, WWII, there were hard on my dad's generation. The impact of those hardships were not transferred to me. I did not suffer from them. It would be lame of me to pretend I did.


WWI? Previous bad times? Not even memories. The Civil War? The oppression of being Scots in the United Kingdom? Ancient history to me. If I was a lib, I guess I could use that as an excuse to be an ass to brits today.


But, I'm not that person. That is not my game. Hell, my dad did not even raise me to hate Japanese people, and he had cause.

You reject my pretense because you lack comprehension of the effects of history. Yes many white people suffered during WW1 and the depression. Many poor white immigrants moved here woth nothing. Imagine that experience while also being oppressed as a Black in America. You’re completely out of touch if you don’t think past generations impact future generations. How many family’s built a business and then passed it along to their kids? How many kids went to the same school as their parents. Or even had the opportunity to go to college? How many kids got a job at their fathers company or through a contact that their father had? How many kids Inherited houses and wealth from their parents? The answer is many white families and few to no blacks if we are looking back generations. That’s because Blacks were not legally given the ability or opportunity to build anything. How are you not processing this? This isn’t political it’s just facts and history

I disagree with your premise and I explained why. You going straight to your assumption that it must be because I don't understand, is just you having a closed mind.


My point stands. Yes, I understand about how wealth can accumulate across generations. I also understand how easily it can NOT do so, and not just for blacks.


Yes, a some whites got jobs because their families connections. For the last 50 years, that has been more than balanced by blacks being discriminated in favor of by legally required and enforced racist discrimination.

AND more and more, blacks are in a position to use those types of connections themselves.


It is time to stop discrimination against whites, especially poor and middle class whites, who have done nothing to deserve this, and who have benefitted little from past injustices, if at all.

You are contradicting yourself. You acknowledge that white recurved asvantages through our legal system to gain wealth, power and employment that blacks could not because of a racist legal system. But then you call laws put in place to fix some of the damage those laws caused, racist discrimination against whites. I’m sorry but that’s bullshit. Racist discrimination is defined as unjust. Given our history and disgusting racist elements of our society those laws were more than justified. And just because those loses have been in place for 50 years that doesn’t mean all is good. We can debate that sure, but the fact you call those laws racist and unjust just shows that you don’t understand why they are justified. It would be my argument that your attitude and perspective clearly shows why those laws are just and why they should still be in place. We have come a long way since the civil rights act but there are still many people like you who just don’t get it... we still have a long way to go

Discriminating against a group of people, because of race, is racist discrimination.


That you think it is justified does not change that. That you support it, makes you racist.


We do have a long way to go. We have a massive system of system racist discrimination and racism operating in our society today, crushing the hope and dreams of millions.

Race discrimination implies unjust actions. If an oppressed group is singled out to rectify wrongs done tot hem then those actions are just so that would not be racist discrimination

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

My point is... The policies you are calling racist and unjust now would also have to be labeled as such back in the 60s. The justification for those laws in the aftermath of the civil rights act, fresh off of obvious, and acknowledged racial discrimination in our legal system, to me is a no brainer. We should be able to agree that restitution through law to help right the wrongs that led to disadvantages through poverty and low education of a high percentage of the black population would be a good and just thing. If we can agree on that then the debate should be about effectiveness of those efforts, what else if anything can be done, and when certain laws should expire. But you’re trying to take it to a different place by calling the laws racist against whites. When I ask about the justifications for initiating those laws you give weak non answers, I’m guessing because you understand what I just laid out and didn’t want to walk yourself into a hole.

1. I do not agree that the way to address past discrimination is to balance it with reverse discrimination today and in the future.


2. The laws and programs ARE racist against whites. Discriminating against people on the basis of race is racist. That is what you are doing, and if you are serious in your support, playing word games to deny your actions, is cowardly and dishonest.


3. I gave the answer because it is difficult to be sure how I would have responded in a time period before I was born.

Well put some thought into it. Let’s say we just passed the civil rights act and reversed Jim Crow laws that literally oppressed blacks for over a century. What do you do next? Give me some ideas on how to handle this in a non racist way...

Stand back and let blacks go at it, like the rest of us.

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

My point is... The policies you are calling racist and unjust now would also have to be labeled as such back in the 60s. The justification for those laws in the aftermath of the civil rights act, fresh off of obvious, and acknowledged racial discrimination in our legal system, to me is a no brainer. We should be able to agree that restitution through law to help right the wrongs that led to disadvantages through poverty and low education of a high percentage of the black population would be a good and just thing. If we can agree on that then the debate should be about effectiveness of those efforts, what else if anything can be done, and when certain laws should expire. But you’re trying to take it to a different place by calling the laws racist against whites. When I ask about the justifications for initiating those laws you give weak non answers, I’m guessing because you understand what I just laid out and didn’t want to walk yourself into a hole.

1. I do not agree that the way to address past discrimination is to balance it with reverse discrimination today and in the future.


2. The laws and programs ARE racist against whites. Discriminating against people on the basis of race is racist. That is what you are doing, and if you are serious in your support, playing word games to deny your actions, is cowardly and dishonest.


3. I gave the answer because it is difficult to be sure how I would have responded in a time period before I was born.

Well put some thought into it. Let’s say we just passed the civil rights act and reversed Jim Crow laws that literally oppressed blacks for over a century. What do you do next? Give me some ideas on how to handle this in a non racist way...

Stand back and let blacks go at it, like the rest of us.

Sorry but that’s not good enough in my POV. If I crash into somebody’s car then I don’t walk away and say its up to you to fix your own car. I’m responsible for the hardship I imposed on others. I’m responsible to pay for the damage I caused. Why should our government be held to any less of a standard than we hold ourselves to?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Unbelievable, right? It was a simple question. we all saw it. Mr. Biden, did you call the Governor/Mayor of Oregon/Portland to tell them to tell his supporters to stop burning down Portland?
Biden did not answer. So anyone here wanna guess why? was he watching any particular movie/movies on cable TV?
Was Biden too busy on his PC in his hideaway?
And yet, at least 40% of us are gonna vote for Biden?

So Biden Would Not Answer To Why He Never Contacted Portland To Stop The Democrat Riot. Gee, Why? Was He Just Too Busy? Watching Netflix?

He's a private citizen, retard.

Why didn't you call?

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

My point is... The policies you are calling racist and unjust now would also have to be labeled as such back in the 60s. The justification for those laws in the aftermath of the civil rights act, fresh off of obvious, and acknowledged racial discrimination in our legal system, to me is a no brainer. We should be able to agree that restitution through law to help right the wrongs that led to disadvantages through poverty and low education of a high percentage of the black population would be a good and just thing. If we can agree on that then the debate should be about effectiveness of those efforts, what else if anything can be done, and when certain laws should expire. But you’re trying to take it to a different place by calling the laws racist against whites. When I ask about the justifications for initiating those laws you give weak non answers, I’m guessing because you understand what I just laid out and didn’t want to walk yourself into a hole.

1. I do not agree that the way to address past discrimination is to balance it with reverse discrimination today and in the future.


2. The laws and programs ARE racist against whites. Discriminating against people on the basis of race is racist. That is what you are doing, and if you are serious in your support, playing word games to deny your actions, is cowardly and dishonest.


3. I gave the answer because it is difficult to be sure how I would have responded in a time period before I was born.

Well put some thought into it. Let’s say we just passed the civil rights act and reversed Jim Crow laws that literally oppressed blacks for over a century. What do you do next? Give me some ideas on how to handle this in a non racist way...

Stand back and let blacks go at it, like the rest of us.

Sorry but that’s not good enough in my POV. If I crash into somebody’s car then I don’t walk away and say its up to you to fix your own car. I’m responsible for the hardship I imposed on others. I’m responsible to pay for the damage I caused. Why should our government be held to any less of a standard than we hold ourselves to?

The government is not the one paying the price. It is white people being denied jobs or promotions or college slots that they would otherwise have gotten.


It is very telling that you keep wanting to pretend that we are talking about faceless groups or institutions, and not admit that real people have paid real prices for the sins of other people, from long ago.


Based on their sharing race.

 

[Correll]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Can you really not recognized the “impact“ that generations of discriminatory laws from slavery through Jim Crow Have had on the black community? You claim to understand and be aware so prove it and tell me what impact you think that history had on the black community back in the 60s and now today

IMO, the primary forces "impacting" the black community today, are not old forces from generations ago, but far more current factors that bury older influences under there much larger "ripples".


Nothing that happened to my Great, great, grand father, really looms very big in my life. I guess it is good that they decided to move to America, but beyond that, I cannot trace any "impact" of any hardship he faced, that still impacts me.

Your lack of comprehension is really starting to make me question if my time is being well spent talking to you. You are comparing yourself a white person and the way your grandfather was treated with the systemic oppression of an entire race of people. You can’t cherry pick and compare these situations like that. The things I’m say are not even really debatable. When you have generations of black families systematically oppressed, whom are not given the same opportunities to work, educate, accumulate wealth, or integrate in society then the results are extremely high percentages of poverty. Poverty results in a culture of other problems including drugs and criminal activity. You have to see how all this relates, right? You have to see how our laws and government and country was responsible for that, right?

My point is that barring significant accumulations of wealth, which was rare, the hardships of one generation do NOT impact the next, white or black.


Your pretense that blacks are so alien that we cannot examine their experience in comparison to our own, I reject.


The Great Depression, WWII, there were hard on my dad's generation. The impact of those hardships were not transferred to me. I did not suffer from them. It would be lame of me to pretend I did.


WWI? Previous bad times? Not even memories. The Civil War? The oppression of being Scots in the United Kingdom? Ancient history to me. If I was a lib, I guess I could use that as an excuse to be an ass to brits today.


But, I'm not that person. That is not my game. Hell, my dad did not even raise me to hate Japanese people, and he had cause.

You reject my pretense because you lack comprehension of the effects of history. Yes many white people suffered during WW1 and the depression. Many poor white immigrants moved here woth nothing. Imagine that experience while also being oppressed as a Black in America. You’re completely out of touch if you don’t think past generations impact future generations. How many family’s built a business and then passed it along to their kids? How many kids went to the same school as their parents. Or even had the opportunity to go to college? How many kids got a job at their fathers company or through a contact that their father had? How many kids Inherited houses and wealth from their parents? The answer is many white families and few to no blacks if we are looking back generations. That’s because Blacks were not legally given the ability or opportunity to build anything. How are you not processing this? This isn’t political it’s just facts and history

I disagree with your premise and I explained why. You going straight to your assumption that it must be because I don't understand, is just you having a closed mind.


My point stands. Yes, I understand about how wealth can accumulate across generations. I also understand how easily it can NOT do so, and not just for blacks.


Yes, a some whites got jobs because their families connections. For the last 50 years, that has been more than balanced by blacks being discriminated in favor of by legally required and enforced racist discrimination.

AND more and more, blacks are in a position to use those types of connections themselves.


It is time to stop discrimination against whites, especially poor and middle class whites, who have done nothing to deserve this, and who have benefitted little from past injustices, if at all.

You are contradicting yourself. You acknowledge that white recurved asvantages through our legal system to gain wealth, power and employment that blacks could not because of a racist legal system. But then you call laws put in place to fix some of the damage those laws caused, racist discrimination against whites. I’m sorry but that’s bullshit. Racist discrimination is defined as unjust. Given our history and disgusting racist elements of our society those laws were more than justified. And just because those loses have been in place for 50 years that doesn’t mean all is good. We can debate that sure, but the fact you call those laws racist and unjust just shows that you don’t understand why they are justified. It would be my argument that your attitude and perspective clearly shows why those laws are just and why they should still be in place. We have come a long way since the civil rights act but there are still many people like you who just don’t get it... we still have a long way to go

Discriminating against a group of people, because of race, is racist discrimination.


That you think it is justified does not change that. That you support it, makes you racist.


We do have a long way to go. We have a massive system of system racist discrimination and racism operating in our society today, crushing the hope and dreams of millions.

Race discrimination implies unjust actions. If an oppressed group is singled out to rectify wrongs done tot hem then those actions are just so that would not be racist discrimination

Race discrimination clearly is defined as discrimination based on race. That you think it is justified and thus support it, makes you a supporter of racist discrimination.


If looking at it clearly bothers you, then maybe you should think about this some, more deeply or seriously than you have in the past.

 

[Slade3200]

You couldnt

1. For it to be discrimination it need to unjust or prejudicial treatment. I don’t believe it is so. You can make the case that it causes harm to white who don’t get accepted but that’s like saying helping the town woth contaminated water is harmful for the neighboring town that didn’t get the same funding and support.

It is obvious unjust for white students to lose out on college slots to black students based on race.

Yes, it does cause harm to white students who don't get accepted, or don't get into the better schools, or don't get assistance, or ect. ect ect. Obvoiusly.

2. the people responsible are not people. It was our government and societies laws that lasted for generations and had a real and lasting effect. How do you suggest we right those wrongs?

The people responsible were people. How to right those long ago wrongs? By giving equality before the law for the last 50 years and making blacks fully equal citizens in the greatest country in the world.

Not by punishing white people today, for something other people did a long time ago, based on the fact that some of them have similar skin tones.

3. the fight against it and the pushback to their cries when they complain about modern day issues is what fuels the fire. Not the laws and movement enacted to improve the situation. The election of Obama was a great symbolic achievement for the black community but it also brought a wave of racial hate that had been burrowing for a long time. I was and still am very disappointed about how much of this crap still exists in our society.

The election of Obama did not bring a wave of racial hate. It brought a wave of horrific wace baiting where normal partisan opposition was falsely labeled wacism, by vile liars.



But, thank you for not denying the increased division and hatred that these actions are causing.


Time to stop them, before they totally tear this nation apart. If it is not already too late.

You couldn’t be any more off base... no it wasn’t just bad people it was our laws, our government our society that oppressed a race for generations and still has lasting effects in today’s society. Let that sink in. Also you ignored my central point about the water. Is providing funding and support for that down discrimination against other towns? Yes or no

I ignored a bad analogy.

BUT for your analogy to be accurate, it is not just one town with bad water. There are many towns that have "bad water" ie historical reasons for poverty and hopelessness.


YOu just want to ignore the white ones and only focus on the black and brown ones.


And we have. For generations. And it has put enormous burdens on the poor and middle class whites of this country, to the point that white males are seeing their life spans SHRINK.


Time to stop the injustice. Time to stop the racism and discrimination.

Our government had policies that impacted the health wealth social standing and education of an entire race of people for generations. That’s is not far off from my example and is deserving of something more than simply changing discriminatory laws. Come on dude, this isn’t very complicated to understand. Simple morals and ethics

"impacted"? Want to vague that up a bit?

And if they deserved anything beyond legal equality, they had it, for 70 years and they tapped out that well of white guilt.


We, current day whites, have paid enough and taken enough shit, that increasingly we are done with that.

Time to end that racist discrimination against white people. I want equality and equal protection before the Law for my people.

Let’s back up a bit and let me ask. Do you think the measures taken in the 60’s were justified or do you think nothing more than changing the laws should have been done?

A very good question.


The repeal of Jim Crow Laws, I support. The idea of Affirmative Action, in all of it's guises, is a difficult question.


Two points stand out very well though.

1. Discriminating against a majority for a minority, is less painful and more sustainable, when the minority is a smaller minority, like 10 or 12 percent. That makes it possible for the white victims of such discrimination to hope to get a fair break the next time. As we move to MINORITY MAJORITY, it becomes a far heavier burden, and becomes more of a large percentage of the population ALWAYS being fucked.


2. The idea was that AA would improve the living standards of blacks and heal past injustices and racial tensions. We see that that has failed. Instead it seems to be growing an ever increasing belief in entitlement and/or privilege, that is tearing this nation apart, and indeed, killing people in the streets right now, with escalation an ongoing process.


I might have or might not have supported them THEN, but I sure as hell do not support them any more.

So to be clear you don’t think anything more than repealing racist laws should have been done to right the wrongs that our system had on generations of blacks in the USA? Is that correct?

What part of I might have or might NOT have supported them THEN, did you not understand?

My answer is a qualified MAYBE.


So, moving on, your response or counter point to that is?

What kind of answer is that? All you said is that you might have or might not have supported them. Well no shit, those are the only two options. Haha. Come on take a stance and give a real answer

You're asking me what I would have done in a hypothetical time and setting and my answer is, I am not sure.


AND I explained why. AND I further explained why my current position is firmer.


That's a pretty full answer, and if you have a point to make, make it, and I will address it.

My point is... The policies you are calling racist and unjust now would also have to be labeled as such back in the 60s. The justification for those laws in the aftermath of the civil rights act, fresh off of obvious, and acknowledged racial discrimination in our legal system, to me is a no brainer. We should be able to agree that restitution through law to help right the wrongs that led to disadvantages through poverty and low education of a high percentage of the black population would be a good and just thing. If we can agree on that then the debate should be about effectiveness of those efforts, what else if anything can be done, and when certain laws should expire. But you’re trying to take it to a different place by calling the laws racist against whites. When I ask about the justifications for initiating those laws you give weak non answers, I’m guessing because you understand what I just laid out and didn’t want to walk yourself into a hole.

1. I do not agree that the way to address past discrimination is to balance it with reverse discrimination today and in the future.


2. The laws and programs ARE racist against whites. Discriminating against people on the basis of race is racist. That is what you are doing, and if you are serious in your support, playing word games to deny your actions, is cowardly and dishonest.


3. I gave the answer because it is difficult to be sure how I would have responded in a time period before I was born.

Well put some thought into it. Let’s say we just passed the civil rights act and reversed Jim Crow laws that literally oppressed blacks for over a century. What do you do next? Give me some ideas on how to handle this in a non racist way...

Stand back and let blacks go at it, like the rest of us.

Sorry but that’s not good enough in my POV. If I crash into somebody’s car then I don’t walk away and say its up to you to fix your own car. I’m responsible for the hardship I imposed on others. I’m responsible to pay for the damage I caused. Why should our government be held to any less of a standard than we hold ourselves to?

The government is not the one paying the price. It is white people being denied jobs or promotions or college slots that they would otherwise have gotten.


It is very telling that you keep wanting to pretend that we are talking about faceless groups or institutions, and not admit that real people have paid real prices for the sins of other people, from long ago.


Based on their sharing race.

How does the government pay the price without it affecting white people?