Small Businesses in NYC Struggling with $15 Minimum Wage

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yet they're not the ones demanding free shit, go figure...dumbass.

tax cut economics are simple wealth redistribution on a national basis.
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

So you're saying now you're against wealth redistribution?

Trump demanding lower interest rates is wealth redistribution.

Trump demanding lower interest rates is a President trying to keep these good times going. Interest rates increase to slow down the economy when it seems to be going out of control. Growth is good provided it has some limitations to keep inflation down.

Lower rates takes from those who have their money in savings. It's taking from one to give to another. What do you call this in other settings?

So what's wrong with that? People save money they are not going to need, so it sits there protected and gains a small amount of interest. They lend that money to people to purchase homes, automobiles, start a business.

My money is in the bank too, and it's serving a purpose for society when the bank lends it out to other people. Again, it's there anytime I want it, but I'm keeping it there right now for my benefit as well as others.

 

[pknopp]

tax cut economics are simple wealth redistribution on a national basis.
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

So you're saying now you're against wealth redistribution?

Trump demanding lower interest rates is wealth redistribution.

Trump demanding lower interest rates is a President trying to keep these good times going. Interest rates increase to slow down the economy when it seems to be going out of control. Growth is good provided it has some limitations to keep inflation down.

Lower rates takes from those who have their money in savings. It's taking from one to give to another. What do you call this in other settings?

So what's wrong with that? People save money they are not going to need, so it sits there protected and gains a small amount of interest. They lend that money to people to purchase homes, automobiles, start a business.

My money is in the bank too, and it's serving a purpose for society when the bank lends it out to other people. Again, it's there anytime I want it, but I'm keeping it there right now for my benefit as well as others.

Great, taking from one to give to another is an acceptable practice.

 

[Andylusion]

I would argue otherwise, yes.

Please give me a specific example where a 'good paying job' was replaced by a 'low paying job'?

Where has this happened?

Everywhere. Wal Mart is the largest employer in many areas.

How is that relevant?

You said that good paying jobs were being replaced by low paying jobs. Are you suggesting that all the people working at that walmart, were highly paid electrical engineers, and their employer eliminated all their jobs, and Walmart hired them all?

The good paying jobs are no longer there for the people who have to turn to Wal Mart. Does this really have to be spelled out in incredibly simple terms?

You have to change with the times. Yes, at one time you could make 55K a year with great benefits riding around on a floor sweeper at a GM plant, but those days are long gone and you have to adjust. You can't expect employers to over pay workers doing monkey jobs because at one time that's what employers had to do. The American consumers refuse to stand for that.

No they didn't as it was consumers that had these jobs. Shareholders did. Shareholders is why Boeing killed 350 people.

There are still good paying jobs out there, just not for somebody with talent limited to turning nuts onto bolts or inspecting parts. If you get the education needed for various fields of work, the good pay is still out there.

There are 10's of millions that need a job. How long are you and others going to continue to ignore this? It's not going away simply because you ignore it.

So there's a couple of problems I have with this argument.

First... no one is ignoring it. You just don't like our answer. That's not our problem. That's your problem.

Second... you are acting like there is a magic fix. There is no magic fix. There is no "you must create jobs here" policy. There is no magic leader that is going to wave is mystical wand over the country and have jobs simply appear.

Third... you are talking to someone who has had roughly 35 different jobs since I started working in my freshman year in high school. I grow up with these people called "parents", who taught me things, such as.... it's up to *ME* to provide a job for myself.

I never once thought that somehow it was the job of everyone else in society, to create jobs for me. I never once thought it was up to government to create my income.

We have given you the answer. If you know people who are looking for a job, it's time to swallow their pride, and go get a job. There are plenty of them. If you need a better job, then it is up to you, or those people who want those better jobs, to go get the skills required to have those better jobs.

This is what bugs me about Americans. We were founded by a group of people who came here specifically to not need to be dependent on everyone else. The people who came to populate this country, came here expecting nothing at all from society, but the ability to work freely, and do so without being harmed by others.

That's it. You read the story of Andrew Carnegie, and how he was working for pennies per hour, and did so after coming here from Scotland. His father was one of these guys that knew how to do weaving. He made cloth. Well the powered looms were putting those people out of business, but his father refused to learn anything new. So they lived in poverty.

When Andrew Carnegie was old enough to work, he learned to adapt. He learned one job, then another, then another. He moved from one position to the next. It was directly because of this, that he ended up wealthy.

The person who gets to some "X" point in their life, and says that's it I'm done learning, that's the person who ends up poor.

You have to move on. You have learn, and adapt. The old days are not coming back. No amount of you saying "Someone should do something!" is going to change that.

Back to my first answer: We have given you solutions to your problem. Learn a skill. Learn a trade. Learn a new occupation. Move where the jobs are. Buy one of these cheap $100 Chromebook computers, go to the hundreds of self-teaching sites, and learn something of value.

The American Dream is not dead. Americans have simply forgotten how the American Dream works.

The American Dream is to purse your happiness. That's why the founders of this country never wrote a "right to happiness" but a right to pursue happiness. Not complain and whine to government, about those big mean companies, and mean ol China. A right to happiness, would mean you are owed it. A right to pursue happiness means it's on YOU to pursue it.

My roommate from Bangladesh, landed a job worth over $120K a year, with 4 weeks paid vacation. Why can a guy that barely knows English, knows nothing of our culture, able to land a $120K a year job, under the age of 30? He's not even 30 yet.

You say that's just a one-off situation?

The immigrant who became a drone firm boss

Mexican immigrant (legally of course).... sets up a drone company. Now he's a multimillionaire.

Almost half of Fortune 500 companies were founded by American immigrants or their children

Now think about that.... almost HALF of all fortune 500 companies, founded by immigrants. Either immigrants themselves, or their children.

Why is that? Why in a nation of 330 million Americans, are almost half the fortune 500 companies started by immigrants?

I would suggest to you that the answer is, immigrants are not coming here with the "if only government would...." attitude. I would suggest it's because they are not sitting around saying "How long are you and others going to continue to ignore this?" on forums.

Instead they are going out there, finding a market, and starting a business.

One of the places I worked, was a company founded by a Russian guy. He was buying up junk lots, finding broken stuff, and fixing it, and then selling it at a profit. But he didn't stop there. He also was purchasing old cars, hiring retired mechanics and body shop guys, to fix these things up, and selling them restored.

He didn't even stop there. He was buying old servers, like really IBM machines, melting down the circuit boards, and separating out the gold. The last shipment of gold, was over $20,000 dollars.

I'll tell you what he was not doing... was sitting around asking when someone was going to provide him a job. That's why he makes the big money, and those people in the hills don't. They need to get out of the hills, get off their butts, and go be productive. Find something to do. And if you can't, move to where you can. And if you need education, get it. We have more ways to educate yourself in our society, than any other in the history of the world.

Stop whining, start working. Yes, I know it's hard and it sucks, but that's life. What is worse than sucky crappy life? Sitting on your a$$ waiting for someone to fix your sucky crappy life.

 

[pknopp]

Everywhere. Wal Mart is the largest employer in many areas.

How is that relevant?

You said that good paying jobs were being replaced by low paying jobs. Are you suggesting that all the people working at that walmart, were highly paid electrical engineers, and their employer eliminated all their jobs, and Walmart hired them all?

The good paying jobs are no longer there for the people who have to turn to Wal Mart. Does this really have to be spelled out in incredibly simple terms?

You have to change with the times. Yes, at one time you could make 55K a year with great benefits riding around on a floor sweeper at a GM plant, but those days are long gone and you have to adjust. You can't expect employers to over pay workers doing monkey jobs because at one time that's what employers had to do. The American consumers refuse to stand for that.

No they didn't as it was consumers that had these jobs. Shareholders did. Shareholders is why Boeing killed 350 people.

There are still good paying jobs out there, just not for somebody with talent limited to turning nuts onto bolts or inspecting parts. If you get the education needed for various fields of work, the good pay is still out there.

There are 10's of millions that need a job. How long are you and others going to continue to ignore this? It's not going away simply because you ignore it.

So there's a couple of problems I have with this argument.

First... no one is ignoring it. You just don't like our answer. That's not our problem. That's your problem.

I have addressed this with the person I was speaking with many times. If it doesn't apply to you, that will be great. We will see.

Second... you are acting like there is a magic fix. There is no magic fix. There is no "you must create jobs here" policy. There is no magic leader that is going to wave is mystical wand over the country and have jobs simply appear.

Of course there is no magic fix. I'm not the one arguing that all you have to do is get a better job. I'm the one arguing it's not that simple.

Third... you are talking to someone who has had roughly 35 different jobs since I started working in my freshman year in high school. I grow up with these people called "parents", who taught me things, such as.... it's up to *ME* to provide a job for myself.

That's great I suppose. I might question the need for 35 different jobs but I suppose you have your reasons.

I never once thought that somehow it was the job of everyone else in society, to create jobs for me. I never once thought it was up to government to create my income.

We have given you the answer. If you know people who are looking for a job, it's time to swallow their pride, and go get a job. There are plenty of them. If you need a better job, then it is up to you, or those people who want those better jobs, to go get the skills required to have those better jobs.

I guess my hopes have been dashed........there are NOT tens of millions of those jobs. You like others argue for things that will work for some, not for tens of millions. I have never argued that this will not work for some. As a country we have to deal with tens of millions.

This is what bugs me about Americans. We were founded by a group of people who came here specifically to not need to be dependent on everyone else. The people who came to populate this country, came here expecting nothing at all from society, but the ability to work freely, and do so without being harmed by others.

Those who came here were dependent upon others.

The Pilgrims Had No Idea How to Farm Here. Luckily, They Had the Native Americans

That's it. You read the story of Andrew Carnegie, and how he was working for pennies per hour, and did so after coming here from Scotland. His father was one of these guys that knew how to do weaving. He made cloth. Well the powered looms were putting those people out of business, but his father refused to learn anything new. So they lived in poverty.

When Andrew Carnegie was old enough to work, he learned to adapt. He learned one job, then another, then another. He moved from one position to the next. It was directly because of this, that he ended up wealthy.

The person who gets to some "X" point in their life, and says that's it I'm done learning, that's the person who ends up poor.

You have to move on. You have learn, and adapt. The old days are not coming back. No amount of you saying "Someone should do something!" is going to change that.

Back to my first answer: We have given you solutions to your problem. Learn a skill. Learn a trade. Learn a new occupation. Move where the jobs are. Buy one of these cheap $100 Chromebook computers, go to the hundreds of self-teaching sites, and learn something of value.

The American Dream is not dead. Americans have simply forgotten how the American Dream works.

That is not the argument. How many times do I have to point this out? There can be only so many engineers. There have to be many that carry out the engineers ideas. There can only be so many Sam Waltons. There has to be thousands of people to carry out his ideas.

The American Dream is to purse your happiness. That's why the founders of this country never wrote a "right to happiness" but a right to pursue happiness. Not complain and whine to government, about those big mean companies, and mean ol China. A right to happiness, would mean you are owed it. A right to pursue happiness means it's on YOU to pursue it.

I'm not the one complaining about "mean old China" that's Trump.

My roommate from Bangladesh, landed a job worth over $120K a year, with 4 weeks paid vacation. Why can a guy that barely knows English, knows nothing of our culture, able to land a $120K a year job, under the age of 30? He's not even 30 yet.

You say that's just a one-off situation?

The immigrant who became a drone firm boss

Mexican immigrant (legally of course).... sets up a drone company. Now he's a multimillionaire.

Almost half of Fortune 500 companies were founded by American immigrants or their children

View attachment 273822

Now think about that.... almost HALF of all fortune 500 companies, founded by immigrants. Either immigrants themselves, or their children.

Why is that? Why in a nation of 330 Americans, are almost half the fortune 500 companies started by immigrants?

I would suggest to you that the answer is, immigrants are not coming here with the "if only government would...." attitude. I would suggest it's because they are not sitting around saying "How long are you and others going to continue to ignore this?" on forums.

Instead they are going out there, finding a market, and starting a business.

One of the places I worked, was a company founded by a Russian guy. He was buying up junk lots, finding broken stuff, and fixing it, and then selling it at a profit. But he didn't stop there. He also was purchasing old cars, hiring retired mechanics and body shop guys, to fix these things up, and selling them restored.

He didn't even stop there. He was buying old servers, like really IBM machines, melting down the circuit boards, and separating out the gold. The last shipment of gold, was over $20,000 dollars.

I'll tell you what he was not doing... was sitting around asking when someone was going to provide him a job. That's why he makes the big money, and those people in the hills don't. They need to get out of the hills, get off their butts, and go be productive. Find something to do. And if you can't, move to where you can. And if you need education, get it. We have more ways to educate yourself in our society, than any other in the history of the world.

Stop whining, start working. Yes, I know it's hard and it sucks, but that's life. What is worse than sucky crappy life? Sitting on your a$$ waiting for someone to fix your sucky crappy life.

Anecdotal stories are barely worth the time it takes to write them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you're saying now you're against wealth redistribution?

Trump demanding lower interest rates is wealth redistribution.

Trump demanding lower interest rates is a President trying to keep these good times going. Interest rates increase to slow down the economy when it seems to be going out of control. Growth is good provided it has some limitations to keep inflation down.

Lower rates takes from those who have their money in savings. It's taking from one to give to another. What do you call this in other settings?

So what's wrong with that? People save money they are not going to need, so it sits there protected and gains a small amount of interest. They lend that money to people to purchase homes, automobiles, start a business.

My money is in the bank too, and it's serving a purpose for society when the bank lends it out to other people. Again, it's there anytime I want it, but I'm keeping it there right now for my benefit as well as others.

Great, taking from one to give to another is an acceptable practice.

It is by liberal standards. After all, government does it day after day, week after week, and year after year.

 

[pknopp]

Trump demanding lower interest rates is wealth redistribution.

Trump demanding lower interest rates is a President trying to keep these good times going. Interest rates increase to slow down the economy when it seems to be going out of control. Growth is good provided it has some limitations to keep inflation down.

Lower rates takes from those who have their money in savings. It's taking from one to give to another. What do you call this in other settings?

So what's wrong with that? People save money they are not going to need, so it sits there protected and gains a small amount of interest. They lend that money to people to purchase homes, automobiles, start a business.

My money is in the bank too, and it's serving a purpose for society when the bank lends it out to other people. Again, it's there anytime I want it, but I'm keeping it there right now for my benefit as well as others.

Great, taking from one to give to another is an acceptable practice.

It is by liberal standards. After all, government does it day after day, week after week, and year after year.

OK so you are a liberal then.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump demanding lower interest rates is a President trying to keep these good times going. Interest rates increase to slow down the economy when it seems to be going out of control. Growth is good provided it has some limitations to keep inflation down.

Lower rates takes from those who have their money in savings. It's taking from one to give to another. What do you call this in other settings?

So what's wrong with that? People save money they are not going to need, so it sits there protected and gains a small amount of interest. They lend that money to people to purchase homes, automobiles, start a business.

My money is in the bank too, and it's serving a purpose for society when the bank lends it out to other people. Again, it's there anytime I want it, but I'm keeping it there right now for my benefit as well as others.

Great, taking from one to give to another is an acceptable practice.

It is by liberal standards. After all, government does it day after day, week after week, and year after year.

OK so you are a liberal then.

No, I thank God every day he didn't give me a mind that works like that. I couldn't image the torture of being a liberal.

When banks do this, it's a service used by the free will of their customers. When government does it, it's by the use of a gun against your head.

 

[danielpalos]

Providing for the general welfare is in our Constitution. The right wing complains about that. There is no general warfare clause. The right wing doesn't complain about at all about that.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Look, anyone with common sense knows that some jobs in the service industry simply do not warrant a salary of $15 per hour. They just don't.

That's why the Earned Income Tax Credit is a much better approach. It spreads the cost over a much wider tax base, and it targets adults who are working low-wage jobs on a long-term basis.

Minimum wage laws have devastated teen employment. Many waitresses and waiters have publicly stated that raising their wages to $15 per hour would actually cost them money because their restaurants would have to raise prices substantially to pay for that wage increase, which in turn would mean that customers would tip less since they would be paying quite a bit more for their meals.

 

[danielpalos]

Look, anyone with common sense knows that some jobs in the service industry simply do not warrant a salary of $15 per hour. They just don't.

That's why the Earned Income Tax Credit is a much better approach. It spreads the cost over a much wider tax base, and it targets adults who are working low-wage jobs on a long-term basis.

Minimum wage laws have devastated teen employment. Many waitresses and waiters have publicly stated that raising their wages to $15 per hour would actually cost them money because their restaurants would have to raise prices substantially to pay for that wage increase, which in turn would mean that customers would tip less since they would be paying quite a bit more for their meals.

I agree to disagree. It must be worth that much simply because a Government fixed Standard applies. There is no need to subsidize the private sector on Labor. Henry Ford managed to double Auto Worker wages not Minimum wages. Firms which can Only make it on the back of cheap labor, must fail in our First World economy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Look, anyone with common sense knows that some jobs in the service industry simply do not warrant a salary of $15 per hour. They just don't.

That's why the Earned Income Tax Credit is a much better approach. It spreads the cost over a much wider tax base, and it targets adults who are working low-wage jobs on a long-term basis.

Minimum wage laws have devastated teen employment. Many waitresses and waiters have publicly stated that raising their wages to $15 per hour would actually cost them money because their restaurants would have to raise prices substantially to pay for that wage increase, which in turn would mean that customers would tip less since they would be paying quite a bit more for their meals.

That's just the service industry. Like my industry (transportation) there is nowhere to really go when costs get out of control.

We live in a country where we have to fight to keep our own businesses here. Overseas labor is too attractive for US businesses for us to compete against.

As for labor that can't be moved out of state, automation is the next best move; not that it isn't happening already, but a ridiculously higher minimum wage would spark a domino effect, and then the automation industry will be on steroids to replace us workers.

 

[danielpalos]

Look, anyone with common sense knows that some jobs in the service industry simply do not warrant a salary of $15 per hour. They just don't.

That's why the Earned Income Tax Credit is a much better approach. It spreads the cost over a much wider tax base, and it targets adults who are working low-wage jobs on a long-term basis.

Minimum wage laws have devastated teen employment. Many waitresses and waiters have publicly stated that raising their wages to $15 per hour would actually cost them money because their restaurants would have to raise prices substantially to pay for that wage increase, which in turn would mean that customers would tip less since they would be paying quite a bit more for their meals.

That's just the service industry. Like my industry (transportation) there is nowhere to really go when costs get out of control.

We live in a country where we have to fight to keep our own businesses here. Overseas labor is too attractive for US businesses for us to compete against.

As for labor that can't be moved out of state, automation is the next best move; not that it isn't happening already, but a ridiculously higher minimum wage would spark a domino effect, and then the automation industry will be on steroids to replace us workers.

The bigger picture is: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-s-now-has-a-record-6-6-million-job-openings/

We need to find a market friendly solution for local US labor to be able to spend some quality time "upgrading their skill sets."

 

[pknopp]

Lower rates takes from those who have their money in savings. It's taking from one to give to another. What do you call this in other settings?

So what's wrong with that? People save money they are not going to need, so it sits there protected and gains a small amount of interest. They lend that money to people to purchase homes, automobiles, start a business.

My money is in the bank too, and it's serving a purpose for society when the bank lends it out to other people. Again, it's there anytime I want it, but I'm keeping it there right now for my benefit as well as others.

Great, taking from one to give to another is an acceptable practice.

It is by liberal standards. After all, government does it day after day, week after week, and year after year.

OK so you are a liberal then.

No, I thank God every day he didn't give me a mind that works like that. I couldn't image the torture of being a liberal.

When banks do this, it's a service used by the free will of their customers. When government does it, it's by the use of a gun against your head.

There is always an excuse.

 

[basquebromance]

if it were up to me, there would be no minimum wage at all.

not 15$. not 10$. not 1$.

employers can eat cake and workers could scramble for whatever crumbs fell on the table.

 

[Redfish]

We can wonder what they would have cost us if the practices of places like Wal Mart hadn't run manufacturing to places like China, Thailand etc. Is that what you want to discuss?

Sure.

In addition to the 1.5 US employees, millions of Walmart stakeholders all benefit as well as those whose harned-earned cash goes further thanks to Walmart.

In other words, in the US we get to take the bad with the good and most adults understand that is life. Under socialism one only gets the bad.

Employee's make enough to get off public assistance. Who is being harmed there? An employee can afford to take time off work and see a doctor when they get sick. Who exactly is being harmed there?

You seem to have serious issues with capitalism, Comrade. Allow me to suggest that your life would be far more enjoyable if wasted in some "Worker's Paradise" rather than America.

I support Capitalism. We do not operate under Capitalism. Where in Capitalism do we find bail outs, tariffs and quantitative easing?

Try to remember that without those low-skill Walmart jobs the employees would have no jobs. Do you actually believe that to be the better outcome?

And you do not support capitalism but rather have a childish view that it must be 100% perfect, 100% of the time. Life is messy and people are imperfect and capitalism sucks except when compared to any other economic system.

Grow up.

The left likes to focus on the lowly self stocking people. Walmart has the best opportunity to move up the ladder. Their managers and assistant managers are doing okay. Their warehouses and office personnel are doing well. I know their truck drivers are doing great. They are offering a starting salary of nearly 90K a year.

Wallmart (like any business) pays people according to their value to the company.

We have covered this many times. Despite that you insist on the same covered argument. Moving up works for a few. It does not work for tens of millions.

If you don't have the skills or drive to move up then your destiny is to remain a low level employee for life. What you make of your life is up to you, not the government.

 

[Redfish]

if it were up to me, there would be no minimum wage at all.

not 15$. not 10$. not 1$.

employers can eat cake and workers could scramble for whatever crumbs fell on the table.

a little harsh, but the price of labor should be set by supply and demand. A brain surgeon makes more than a janitor because of his skills and training, that concept should apply to all labor.

 

[pknopp]

Sure.

In addition to the 1.5 US employees, millions of Walmart stakeholders all benefit as well as those whose harned-earned cash goes further thanks to Walmart.

In other words, in the US we get to take the bad with the good and most adults understand that is life. Under socialism one only gets the bad.

Employee's make enough to get off public assistance. Who is being harmed there? An employee can afford to take time off work and see a doctor when they get sick. Who exactly is being harmed there?

You seem to have serious issues with capitalism, Comrade. Allow me to suggest that your life would be far more enjoyable if wasted in some "Worker's Paradise" rather than America.

I support Capitalism. We do not operate under Capitalism. Where in Capitalism do we find bail outs, tariffs and quantitative easing?

Try to remember that without those low-skill Walmart jobs the employees would have no jobs. Do you actually believe that to be the better outcome?

And you do not support capitalism but rather have a childish view that it must be 100% perfect, 100% of the time. Life is messy and people are imperfect and capitalism sucks except when compared to any other economic system.

Grow up.

The left likes to focus on the lowly self stocking people. Walmart has the best opportunity to move up the ladder. Their managers and assistant managers are doing okay. Their warehouses and office personnel are doing well. I know their truck drivers are doing great. They are offering a starting salary of nearly 90K a year.

Wallmart (like any business) pays people according to their value to the company.

We have covered this many times. Despite that you insist on the same covered argument. Moving up works for a few. It does not work for tens of millions.

If you don't have the skills or drive to move up then your destiny is to remain a low level employee for life. What you make of your life is up to you, not the government.

Yes, everyone can get the skills and move up overnight. Problem solved. Who knew it was so easy?

 

[basquebromance]

adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage today is 25 percent less than it was in 1965.

today, a mother working full-time cannot afford the rent on an average 2 bedroom apartment anywhere in america

Washington has decided to turn away as more families than ever tumble over a financial cliff and crash on the rocks below

TOUGH SHIT!

 

[Redfish]

back to the OP, the DOW is up 450 this morning.

 

[Redfish]

Employee's make enough to get off public assistance. Who is being harmed there? An employee can afford to take time off work and see a doctor when they get sick. Who exactly is being harmed there?

I support Capitalism. We do not operate under Capitalism. Where in Capitalism do we find bail outs, tariffs and quantitative easing?

Try to remember that without those low-skill Walmart jobs the employees would have no jobs. Do you actually believe that to be the better outcome?

And you do not support capitalism but rather have a childish view that it must be 100% perfect, 100% of the time. Life is messy and people are imperfect and capitalism sucks except when compared to any other economic system.

Grow up.

The left likes to focus on the lowly self stocking people. Walmart has the best opportunity to move up the ladder. Their managers and assistant managers are doing okay. Their warehouses and office personnel are doing well. I know their truck drivers are doing great. They are offering a starting salary of nearly 90K a year.

Wallmart (like any business) pays people according to their value to the company.

We have covered this many times. Despite that you insist on the same covered argument. Moving up works for a few. It does not work for tens of millions.

If you don't have the skills or drive to move up then your destiny is to remain a low level employee for life. What you make of your life is up to you, not the government.

Yes, everyone can get the skills and move up overnight. Problem solved. Who knew it was so easy?

no one ever said it was easy. Why should it be easy? I worked very hard for over 40 years to get where I am, with zero help from the government, all they did was tax my earnings at an ever greater rate as they increased.

Why should anyone get a free ride on the backs of those of us who worked and scraped to get what we have?