Single Payer Health Care Already Works

[sealybobo]

Simple. The company you work for gives you a raise because healthcare will be taken off their plate.

And you are 100% sure this is what's going to happen? what's your theory based on.. besides wishful thinking I mean? For cryin' out loud do you just swallow EVERYTHING the Federal Government tells you without at least giving it a seconds worth of thought? Companies will still have to pay for health care, just like they do now, only instead of putting the money into private sector companies they'll be sending it to the government and passing those costs along to the consumer. It's a zero sum game all this plan does is transfer who gets the money from the productive private sector to the non-productive (in our case counter productive) public sector.

And because right now we are overpaying, the companies will save money.

And we will save money too because the costs will go down.

The gub'ment promised that Medicare part D would save money and reduces costs, guess what , the latests estimates from the Social Security Administration show that is now carrying $8 Trillion in longterm unfunded liabilities and growing every year, how many times are you gonna fall for the same lie?

Our current unfunded liabilities ($56.4 Trillion) GUARANTEE that the federal government will need to either raise taxes to draconian levels, cut entitlements drastically or both... will you folks on the left never learn that there isn't an infinite supply of money to plunder from your fellow citizens and their children to pay for your social experiments? It's something we that live in the real world call UNAFFORDABLE, perhaps you should look it up.

In the meantime maybe you should take 30 minutes and watch this video, perhaps it'll open your eyes a bit.....

I.O.U.S.A: The Movie - 30 Minute Version

Single payer won't cost anywhere near what FOR PROFIT is costing us. Fact.

And social security has funding problems now because a lot are using it and not enough are paying in. That'll change when we go single payer for all.

Your fear of Gob'ment stems from back when Reagan and the GOP demonized it. Well you can't run government if you don't believe in it.

Everything wrong today is because of private companies. Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Defense Contractors, etc.

Time to reign them in.

 

[elvis]

Simple. The company you work for gives you a raise because healthcare will be taken off their plate.

And you are 100% sure this is what's going to happen? what's your theory based on.. besides wishful thinking I mean? For cryin' out loud do you just swallow EVERYTHING the Federal Government tells you without at least giving it a seconds worth of thought? Companies will still have to pay for health care, just like they do now, only instead of putting the money into private sector companies they'll be sending it to the government and passing those costs along to the consumer. It's a zero sum game all this plan does is transfer who gets the money from the productive private sector to the non-productive (in our case counter productive) public sector.

And because right now we are overpaying, the companies will save money.

And we will save money too because the costs will go down.

The gub'ment promised that Medicare part D would save money and reduces costs, guess what , the latests estimates from the Social Security Administration show that is now carrying $8 Trillion in longterm unfunded liabilities and growing every year, how many times are you gonna fall for the same lie?

Our current unfunded liabilities ($56.4 Trillion) GUARANTEE that the federal government will need to either raise taxes to draconian levels, cut entitlements drastically or both... will you folks on the left never learn that there isn't an infinite supply of money to plunder from your fellow citizens and their children to pay for your social experiments? It's something we that live in the real world call UNAFFORDABLE, perhaps you should look it up.

In the meantime maybe you should take 30 minutes and watch this video, perhaps it'll open your eyes a bit.....

I.O.U.S.A: The Movie - 30 Minute Version

Single payer won't cost anywhere near what FOR PROFIT is costing us. Fact.

And social security has funding problems now because a lot are using it and not enough are paying in. That'll change when we go single payer for all.

Your fear of Gob'ment stems from back when Reagan and the GOP demonized it. Well you can't run government if you don't believe in it.

Everything wrong today is because of private companies. Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Defense Contractors, etc.

Time to reign them in.

You tell 'em , Karl Marx.

 

[sealybobo]

And you are 100% sure this is what's going to happen? what's your theory based on.. besides wishful thinking I mean? For cryin' out loud do you just swallow EVERYTHING the Federal Government tells you without at least giving it a seconds worth of thought? Companies will still have to pay for health care, just like they do now, only instead of putting the money into private sector companies they'll be sending it to the government and passing those costs along to the consumer. It's a zero sum game all this plan does is transfer who gets the money from the productive private sector to the non-productive (in our case counter productive) public sector.


The gub'ment promised that Medicare part D would save money and reduces costs, guess what , the latests estimates from the Social Security Administration show that is now carrying $8 Trillion in longterm unfunded liabilities and growing every year, how many times are you gonna fall for the same lie?

Our current unfunded liabilities ($56.4 Trillion) GUARANTEE that the federal government will need to either raise taxes to draconian levels, cut entitlements drastically or both... will you folks on the left never learn that there isn't an infinite supply of money to plunder from your fellow citizens and their children to pay for your social experiments? It's something we that live in the real world call UNAFFORDABLE, perhaps you should look it up.

In the meantime maybe you should take 30 minutes and watch this video, perhaps it'll open your eyes a bit.....

I.O.U.S.A: The Movie - 30 Minute Version

Single payer won't cost anywhere near what FOR PROFIT is costing us. Fact.

And social security has funding problems now because a lot are using it and not enough are paying in. That'll change when we go single payer for all.

Your fear of Gob'ment stems from back when Reagan and the GOP demonized it. Well you can't run government if you don't believe in it.

Everything wrong today is because of private companies. Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Defense Contractors, etc.

Time to reign them in.

You tell 'em , Karl Marx.

No problem Groucho.

 

[Sinatra]

Simple. The company you work for gives you a raise because healthcare will be taken off their plate.

And you are 100% sure this is what's going to happen? what's your theory based on.. besides wishful thinking I mean? For cryin' out loud do you just swallow EVERYTHING the Federal Government tells you without at least giving it a seconds worth of thought? Companies will still have to pay for health care, just like they do now, only instead of putting the money into private sector companies they'll be sending it to the government and passing those costs along to the consumer. It's a zero sum game all this plan does is transfer who gets the money from the productive private sector to the non-productive (in our case counter productive) public sector.

And because right now we are overpaying, the companies will save money.

And we will save money too because the costs will go down.

The gub'ment promised that Medicare part D would save money and reduces costs, guess what , the latests estimates from the Social Security Administration show that is now carrying $8 Trillion in longterm unfunded liabilities and growing every year, how many times are you gonna fall for the same lie?

Our current unfunded liabilities ($56.4 Trillion) GUARANTEE that the federal government will need to either raise taxes to draconian levels, cut entitlements drastically or both... will you folks on the left never learn that there isn't an infinite supply of money to plunder from your fellow citizens and their children to pay for your social experiments? It's something we that live in the real world call UNAFFORDABLE, perhaps you should look it up.

In the meantime maybe you should take 30 minutes and watch this video, perhaps it'll open your eyes a bit.....

I.O.U.S.A: The Movie - 30 Minute Version

Single payer won't cost anywhere near what FOR PROFIT is costing us. Fact.

And social security has funding problems now because a lot are using it and not enough are paying in. That'll change when we go single payer for all.

Your fear of Gob'ment stems from back when Reagan and the GOP demonized it. Well you can't run government if you don't believe in it.

Everything wrong today is because of private companies. Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Defense Contractors, etc.

Time to reign them in.

BIG GOVERNMENT makes all of those other examples you site look quite small in comparison.

You have no perspective Bobo.

You simply persist in reinforcing nearly everyone's opinion of you in here as a laughable side-show.

Go crack a book, kid.

 

[WillowTree]

sigh! here we go once again..take what you get multiply it to 400 million people and 1/2 of Mexico.. how do you pay for it?


again,, check out countries with 30 or 40 million people on this system,, they have big problems.. ie no money, shortage of services,, long long long long waits



again,, check out Mass.. how is that working out



check out california,, how is that working out..



and lastly tell us how much it will cost and where the money comes from.. and why you feel satisfied that pelosi can do it right! TIA

Simple. The company you work for gives you a raise because healthcare will be taken off their plate.

And because right now we are overpaying, the companies will save money.

And we will save money too because the costs will go down.

And EVERYONE will be covered.

how? will the costs go down???

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Single payer won't cost anywhere near what FOR PROFIT is costing us. Fact.

No silly wabbit, your wild, assertions do not constitute facts, sorry, here in the real world things don't work that way.

And social security has funding problems now because a lot are using it and not enough are paying in. That'll change when we go single payer for all.

ROFLMAO ! so are you basically saying that the solution to government funding short falls is to raise the cost of government ? sheesh I know the collectivists are screwy but I didn't realize they had went ahead and invented their own form of mathematics.

Your fear of Gob'ment stems from back when Reagan and the GOP demonized it. Well you can't run government if you don't believe in it.

Thank you for telling me my personal history and what I believe, unfortunately, as usual, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Everything wrong today is because of private companies. Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Defense Contractors, etc.

So why do you continually support the very politicians that these same corporations have bought and paid for? Are you an out and out fascist or just a fascist sympathizer?

 

[johnstoirvin]

Quoted from AUDITOR0007:

"Our goal should be to remove the profit margin.
Make the health insurance companies all non-profits."

Why don't we make all businesses non-profit, then Obama will have us all right where he wants us.

 

[sealybobo]

So why do you continually support the very politicians that these same corporations have bought and paid for? Are you an out and out fascist or just a fascist sympathizer?

I don't. YOU DO.

So when the GOP were letting Corporate Fascism run wild the last 8 years, you didn't help us when we were trying to stop it. You defended "free markets", remember? To do whatever they wanted.

So why would your politicians make the corporations behave when you don't care? Republican politicians don't even have to justify to you why they support corporations over you. You defend it.

So now when you see a corporation that is doing wrong, let me know about it. Together we will call and try to put an end to it. Thats how it works.

For example, I'm trying to help Ron Paul audit the Federal Reserve and even take it back from the bankers that own it.

Or when Dodd tried to give AIG Exec's their bonus'. Remember we all complained and they took the bonus' away?

But you wouldn't have complained about any of this shit if the GOP were in charge. Admit it. You only cared about making Dodd/The Dems look bad. That's the only reason you cared. The same things you complain about now, you said nothing about those things when the GOP were in charge.

 

[elvis]

So why do you continually support the very politicians that these same corporations have bought and paid for? Are you an out and out fascist or just a fascist sympathizer?

I don't. YOU DO.

So when the GOP were letting Corporate Fascism run wild the last 8 years, you didn't help us when we were trying to stop it. You defended "free markets", remember? To do whatever they wanted.

So why would your politicians make the corporations behave when you don't care? Republican politicians don't even have to justify to you why they support corporations over you. You defend it.

So now when you see a corporation that is doing wrong, let me know about it. Together we will call and try to put an end to it. Thats how it works.

For example, I'm trying to help Ron Paul audit the Federal Reserve and even take it back from the bankers that own it.

Or when Dodd tried to give AIG Exec's their bonus'. Remember we all complained and they took the bonus' away?

But you wouldn't have complained about any of this shit if the GOP were in charge. Admit it. You only cared about making Dodd/The Dems look bad. That's the only reason you cared. The same things you complain about now, you said nothing about those things when the GOP were in charge.

and you know these things how, daft ****?

 

[WillowTree]

Quoted from AUDITOR0007:

"Our goal should be to remove the profit margin.
Make the health insurance companies all non-profits."

Why don't we make all businesses non-profit, then Obama will have us all right where he wants us.

Just cal me Comrade!

 

[auditor0007]

Actually, the way they want to set it up may not be so bad. Because they are not looking for a complete takeover of the healthcare industry, it will give everyone time to actually see the results. If the results are good, then we may well see more of a move to a one payer system. On the other hand, if it turns out to be a complete disaster, then it will likely be scrapped for something else, although what that something else is would be anyone's guess. The great thing is that we do have the ability to make changes on the fly. Nothing is set in stone.

We've had 44 years of Medicare/Medicaid, and they are unqualified disasters.

The costs are WAY higher than projected -even accounting for inflation- and the quality of care is far below that projected.

Yet, is the assessment of those results seen as indicative of the inefficiency and lack of cost contaiment of bureaucracy??....

NOOOOO!!!

We're told that it's the eeeeeviilll and grrrreeeeeedy "free market" that is to blame, and all we need to do is expand the models for those failures to cover everyone.

Socialist democrat plan: Let's do more of the same thing and expect a better result!!

Unfortunately, you do not have a viable solution to provide decent care at a decent price to all those who would choose to purchase it. Your argument against government control is justified. However, the argument against private insurance is also justified as combined, the two have driven the cost of health insurance to more than twice what it was thirty years ago. To top that off, within the next twenty-five years, the cost will double again, and that is in real dollars, not inflated dollars.

Last of all, your suggestion that we just make everyone pay out of pocket for everything medical is not workable, realistic, or cost efficient. People who become sick cannot afford to pay out of pocket every month for their treatment. That is the whole idea behind insurance. The only problem is that it has failed also.

 

[Oddball]

Our goal should be to remove the profit margin.
Make the health insurance companies all non-profits.

Yeah....That'll really motivate people to go through the decade plus of schooling, internship, residency, and all the other folderol it takes to become doctors....NOT!!

 

[auditor0007]

Simple. The company you work for gives you a raise because healthcare will be taken off their plate.

And you are 100% sure this is what's going to happen? what's your theory based on.. besides wishful thinking I mean? For cryin' out loud do you just swallow EVERYTHING the Federal Government tells you without at least giving it a seconds worth of thought? Companies will still have to pay for health care, just like they do now, only instead of putting the money into private sector companies they'll be sending it to the government and passing those costs along to the consumer. It's a zero sum game all this plan does is transfer who gets the money from the productive private sector to the non-productive (in our case counter productive) public sector.

And because right now we are overpaying, the companies will save money.

And we will save money too because the costs will go down.

The gub'ment promised that Medicare part D would save money and reduces costs, guess what , the latests estimates from the Social Security Administration show that is now carrying $8 Trillion in longterm unfunded liabilities and growing every year, how many times are you gonna fall for the same lie?

Our current unfunded liabilities ($56.4 Trillion) GUARANTEE that the federal government will need to either raise taxes to draconian levels, cut entitlements drastically or both... will you folks on the left never learn that there isn't an infinite supply of money to plunder from your fellow citizens and their children to pay for your social experiments? It's something we that live in the real world call UNAFFORDABLE, perhaps you should look it up.

In the meantime maybe you should take 30 minutes and watch this video, perhaps it'll open your eyes a bit.....

I.O.U.S.A: The Movie - 30 Minute Version

Single payer won't cost anywhere near what FOR PROFIT is costing us. Fact.

And social security has funding problems now because a lot are using it and not enough are paying in. That'll change when we go single payer for all.

Your fear of Gob'ment stems from back when Reagan and the GOP demonized it. Well you can't run government if you don't believe in it.

Everything wrong today is because of private companies. Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Defense Contractors, etc.

Time to reign them in.

I love the arguments from both sides. Maybe we should just get rid of all government and all big business since they are both such bad things.

 

[DiamondDave]

Our goal should be to remove the profit margin.
Make the health insurance companies all non-profits.

Yeah....That'll really motivate people to go through the decade plus of schooling, internship, residency, and all the other folderol it takes to become doctors....NOT!!

Or for people to front money to build outpatient surgery centers, etc... really great to invest in something that will not give you any return on investment

 

[Oddball]

Unfortunately, you do not have a viable solution to provide decent care at a decent price to all those who would choose to purchase it. Your argument against government control is justified. However, the argument against private insurance is also justified as combined, the two have driven the cost of health insurance to more than twice what it was thirty years ago. To top that off, within the next twenty-five years, the cost will double again, and that is in real dollars, not inflated dollars.

Last of all, your suggestion that we just make everyone pay out of pocket for everything medical is not workable, realistic, or cost efficient. People who become sick cannot afford to pay out of pocket every month for their treatment. That is the whole idea behind insurance. The only problem is that it has failed also.

The thing about private insurance (at least that provided as an employee benefit) is that it has been treated as a first-dollar right.

Also, numerous states have mandated that only in-state providers will be able to sell their product to the state's citizens. Likewise, several states, like Minnesnowta, mandate that only full-service policies (coverage for things like chiropractic, drug treatment, port wine stain removal) be sold. In those instances, under the current model, gubmint mandates are the problem, not the solution.

Everyone needs to eat and shelter themselves, too....What do you think a federal gubmint "universal groceries" or "universal housing" plan might look like??

Lastly, your *ahem* assumption as to what my proposal might be couldn't be more off the mark.

 

[auditor0007]

Quoted from AUDITOR0007:

"Our goal should be to remove the profit margin.
Make the health insurance companies all non-profits."

Why don't we make all businesses non-profit, then Obama will have us all right where he wants us.

Healthcare is for profit, for the most part. The administration of the costs need not be. Healthcare is also very different from other goods and services that we buy, although many of you will argue that it is not.

The bottom line is this; if healthcare costs continue to rise as a percentage of GDP, fewer people will be able to afford any healthcare at all. When this happens, the overall availablity of services will diminish greatly for everyone. When you force the majority of people into a situation where they can no longer afford what is pretty much a necessity, you will create changes that you won't like.

You can argue as much as you want about how great our system is, but the fact is that it is on the verge of collapse. Businesses are looking for a way out as they can no longer afford to pay for coverage for their employees. Sealy is correct when he says that it makes American businesses less competetive in the global market. And I don't agree with Bobo very often, but in this case he is correct.

The biggest problem with those of you who support and are happy with our current system is that you don't think there is a problem. It's a bit like saying there is no recession right now. For a very few Americans, things may well be great, but for the vast majority, the economy is a mess and it's creating budget problems on the personal as well as community, state, and national levels. Just wishing it away doesn't change reality.

 

[WillowTree]

Quoted from AUDITOR0007:

"Our goal should be to remove the profit margin.
Make the health insurance companies all non-profits."

Why don't we make all businesses non-profit, then Obama will have us all right where he wants us.

Healthcare is for profit, for the most part. The administration of the costs need not be. Healthcare is also very different from other goods and services that we buy, although many of you will argue that it is not.

The bottom line is this; if healthcare costs continue to rise as a percentage of GDP, fewer people will be able to afford any healthcare at all. When this happens, the overall availablity of services will diminish greatly for everyone. When you force the majority of people into a situation where they can no longer afford what is pretty much a necessity, you will create changes that you won't like.

You can argue as much as you want about how great our system is, but the fact is that it is on the verge of collapse. Businesses are looking for a way out as they can no longer afford to pay for coverage for their employees. Sealy is correct when he says that it makes American businesses less competetive in the global market. And I don't agree with Bobo very often, but in this case he is correct.

The biggest problem with those of you who support and are happy with our current system is that you don't think there is a problem. and you know this how auditor? It's a bit like saying there is no recession right now. For a very few Americans, things may well be great, but for the vast majority, the economy is a mess and it's creating budget problems on the personal as well as community, state, and national levels. Just wishing it away doesn't change reality.

no,, and throwing 6 trillion dollars at a problem with a wish and a prayer won't either.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

The biggest problem with those of you who support and are happy with our current system is that you don't think there is a problem. It's a bit like saying there is no recession right now. For a very few Americans, things may well be great, but for the vast majority, the economy is a mess and it's creating budget problems on the personal as well as community, state, and national levels. Just wishing it away doesn't change reality.

Unfortunately you're making a big mistake by equating not supporting national healthcare with being happy with our current system. The healthcare industry in large part is in disarray in this country and there are quite a few things that can be done (both by the private sector and with the aid of government) that can help solve it's problems. However simply throwing more big government and more money we don't have at this problem isn't a solution, it's an unsustainable cop out.

Perhaps going back and taking a look at some of the recommendations of the Kerry-Danforth commission recommendations regarding Medicare, along with a thorough review of the regulartory framework that the healthcare industry is currently saddled with is a good place to start.

 

[DiamondDave]

audit

nobody is saying that there is no room for improvement... but rather that having government take over healthcare for the masses is not improvement, and neither is it the job of government to take care of anyone's personal needs

Would I make improvements so that any organized group of people could apply for group coverage? Yep... would be great if you had choices from your group coverage at work, or group coverage thru the Moose lodge, or group coverage from your HOA, or group coverage from whatever else... competition and choices... you get to shop for what coverage is cheaper, or which you prefer, or which is better for you personally, or whether you want it at all.. but the bottom line is that YOU are still the one responsible for providing and paying for YOUR coverage.. because it is YOUR personal responsibility...

There are places to improve.. but not by destroying the most advanced medical system in the world, and not by having the federal government take it over

 

[WillowTree]

Denver Film Screening Highlights Problems With Socialized Medicine | Face the State

“Dogs in Canada can have hip replacement surgery in weeks,” Browning told an audience of about 100 at the Shwayder Theater. “That’s because it’s a free enterprise system.” But things are much different for the dogs' owners. They must rely on a government-controlled medical system that can delay surgeries for new hips or cancer treatments for years, Browning said.

“In the United States hospital patients bring in revenue,” he said. “In Canada they are a drain on the budget. The Canadians do not have incentives to spend money. That leads to shortages and waits.”

“It’s an ugly system,” he said.

Little wonder, he says, that a member of the Canadian Parliament recently came to America for her medical care.

A Sept. 14 report on Canadian television revealed that Liberal Member of Parliament Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, traveled to California last June for treatment.

dang! you believe that?? A member of the Canadian Parliament came to the US OF KKA for her medical care..