Simple Question: Did we (USA) win Iraq War?

[Modbert]

Art: Obama should get out of AStan.

Rabbi: You're a fuckwad and we should get out of AStan.

Art: But didn't I just say that we should get out of AStan?

Rabbi: You're a moron and no matter what Obama does I'm against it.

How fucking dare you recommend we leave Afghanistan first!

In reality, Rabbi is probably set on "Liberal bash" so anyone who dares not agree that Dubya is a god-like figure must obviously be a Obamabot and for continuing the war in Afghanistan. I'm another person who feels we should get the fuck out of that desert wasteland.

 

[American Horse]

Horsecrap, CF. Basic services, including electricity, are at pre-war levels and it has been six years. The second we are out of there, Iraq will ally with Iran.

I truly believe that was not part of Bush's plan.

Facts are not your friend

Iraq's Electricity Production Surpasses Prewar Level

Electricity rationing still occurs in Iraq, despite increased energy production
February 19, 2009

Electricity Minister Karim Wahid said in Babil Province on February 18 that the country's power output has reached 6,760 megawatts, some 2,500 megawatts more than the amount being generated in 2003 before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Wahid added that the country will get a substantial increase in power this summer when several large energy-producing projects will be finished and provide an additional 2,000 megawatts.

Despite the increased energy, there is still an electricity shortage in Iraq. Electricity rationing still occurs, including in the capital, Baghdad.

Iraq's Electricity Production Surpasses Prewar Level - Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty © 2009

Expanding Access to Electricity

In 2002 Baghdad had access to electricity on a near continuous basis while the rest of Iraq was limited to 3 to 6 hours daily. The U.S. government has made significant progress in improving electricity supply in Iraq and distributing it more equitably throughout the country. USAID recently completed its three-year, $2.3 billion Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Program. Through its overall program, USAID has added 1,292 megawatts of electric generating capacity to Iraq's power grid, serving over 7 million Iraqis.

USAID: Assistance for Iraq - Accomplishments: Electricity

It appears that there is approximately a 58% increase in electrical generating capacity, and it is being more than utilized by the population of Iraq. Only an increase in economic, industrial, and/or commercial activity would account for the use of that large percentage of increased capacity, rendering it insufficient for the new economy. Everyone now has a computer, a cell phone, and are finding ways to create lots of new commercial activities. It's hard to believe that Iraqis would align with Iran, which would no doubt cause them to lose ground economically. Their reliance on Sharia Law as a foundation for their constitution and laws might not mean very much. In spite of that, they are ruling themselves democratically, and they will be a strong US ally in the region; THAT truly was President Bush's plan.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You got it wrong, AH: the Iraqis will ally with the Iranians will trying to take us for all the money and equipment they can get.

 

[mudwhistle]

Our troops aren't dying by the bushel anymore in Iraq, but the media refuses to cover this fact. Iraq is the bad war. We can't win a bad war.

Troups are dying by the bushel in Afghanistan and we are losing ground every day Obama procrastinates. But this is the good war so we will withdraw in victory while we can.

 

[The Rabbi]

No. You're a moron both before and after. My opinion on that hasn't changed one bit.

I don't know what the answer is on Afghanistan. But I do know that whatever it is, Obama will make the wrong decision. Actually he seems to be going there even now. First the request for troops was one number. Then they were asked to scale it back to another number. In the end it will be something different.
It is just like Vietnam. Exact same pattern in government emerging here.

So according to you, no matter what Obama does in A-Stan it will be the wrong thing to do.

Thanks for telling us what we already know: That no matter what Obama does you will attack him for it.

No. I didnt say that. Don't put words in my mouth.
I did say whatever he does will be wrong because he has an unfailingly poor political judgment.
We can start with his disbelieving the very general he appointed to take control of the situation. Talk about killing the messenger.

 

[Modbert]

No. I didnt say that. Don't put words in my mouth.
I did say whatever he does will be wrong because he has an unfailingly poor political judgment.
We can start with his disbelieving the very general he appointed to take control of the situation. Talk about killing the messenger.

You really are that fucking stupid.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Did we win the 'war' in Iraq? How does one define 'Win'?
Did the 'enemy' surrender on the fantail of Missouri (BB-63)? Nope.
I suppose we need to ask the Iraqi people. At least those who survived our 'help'. Of course we cannot ask those killed yesterday, but maybe we could all chip in and buy a plane ticket to Baghdad for CrusderFrank; he could interview the mothers, fathers and children looking through the carnage for their husband, dad, mother, sister, brother - or parts of their loved one.

 

[The Rabbi]

Did we win the 'war' in Iraq? How does one define 'Win'?
Did the 'enemy' surrender on the fantail of Missouri (BB-63)? Nope.
I suppose we need to ask the Iraqi people. At least those who survived our 'help'. Of course we cannot ask those killed yesterday, but maybe we could all chip in and by a plane ticket to Baghdad for CrusderFrank; he could interview the mothers, fathers and children looking through the carnage for their husband, dad, mother, sister, brother - or parts of their loved one.

Or you could ask the relatives of the thousansd of Iraqis and Kurds killed by Saddam whether they'd like to have him back. How about the war widows in Iran?
Based on your criterion I guess we didnt win in Europe either as there was no surrender on the fantail of the Missouri.

 

[mudwhistle]

Horsecrap, CF. Basic services, including electricity, are at pre-war levels and it has been six years. The second we are out of there, Iraq will ally with Iran.

I truly believe that was not part of Bush's plan.

Facts are not your friend

Iraq's Electricity Production Surpasses Prewar Level

Electricity rationing still occurs in Iraq, despite increased energy production
February 19, 2009

Electricity Minister Karim Wahid said in Babil Province on February 18 that the country's power output has reached 6,760 megawatts, some 2,500 megawatts more than the amount being generated in 2003 before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Wahid added that the country will get a substantial increase in power this summer when several large energy-producing projects will be finished and provide an additional 2,000 megawatts.

Despite the increased energy, there is still an electricity shortage in Iraq. Electricity rationing still occurs, including in the capital, Baghdad.

Iraq's Electricity Production Surpasses Prewar Level - Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty © 2009

Expanding Access to Electricity

In 2002 Baghdad had access to electricity on a near continuous basis while the rest of Iraq was limited to 3 to 6 hours daily. The U.S. government has made significant progress in improving electricity supply in Iraq and distributing it more equitably throughout the country. USAID recently completed its three-year, $2.3 billion Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Program. Through its overall program, USAID has added 1,292 megawatts of electric generating capacity to Iraq's power grid, serving over 7 million Iraqis.

USAID: Assistance for Iraq - Accomplishments: Electricity

It appears that there is approximately a 58% increase in electrical generating capacity, and it is being more than utilized by the population of Iraq. Only an increase in economic, industrial, and/or commercial activity would account for the use of that large percentage of increased capacity, rendering it insufficient for the new economy. Everyone now has a computer, a cell phone, and are finding ways to create lots of new commercial activities. It's hard to believe that Iraqis would align with Iran, which would no doubt cause them to lose ground economically. Their reliance on Sharia Law as a foundation for their constitution and laws might not mean very much. In spite of that, they are ruling themselves democratically, and they will be a strong US ally in the region; THAT truly was President Bush's plan.

I wonder when the winning of a war became dependant on providing the enemy with electricity.....

I'm just saying....

 

[The_Halfmoon]

the Iraq war was certainly won, but for whose benefit and at what cost? those two last questions have yet to be answered

 

[Sunni Man]

the Iraq war was certainly won, but for whose benefit and at what cost? those two last questions have yet to be answered

The real winner was Israel

The loser was the United States.

 

[rdean]

Hello? We didn't have treaties with anyone in Europe. We have plenty of Kurds and Iraqis living here. The concentration camps never entered into it.
Your reasons for why the US entered WW2 are as bogus as your reason why we shouldn't have gone to war in Iraq.

Anyone excpt England, France and Italy.

Treaty of Versailles

Signed on June 28, 1919, by Germany on the one hand and by the Allies (save Russia) on the other, the Treaty of Versailles embodied the results of the long and often bitter negotiations of the Paris Peace Conference of 1919.

The outstanding figures in the negotiations leading to the treaty were Woodrow Wilson for the United States, Georges Clemenceau for France, David Lloyd George for England, and Vittorio Emanuele Orlando for Italy—the so-called Big Four. Germany, as the defeated power, was not included in the consultation.

1930 – 1939 World History — Infoplease.com

-------This of course led to the formation of the "League of Nations". While Woodro Wilson did negociate, the Senate refused to sign, but the US held to the tenats of the treaty.

barely a hundred thousand Kurds live here.

I'm guessing less than a hundred thousand Iraqis live here permanently.

How many English, German and Italian live here. I suspect quite a few more.

As far as I know no one took any treaty obligation seriously. The impetus was simply Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. If they hadnt done that I doubt we would have entered the war. Roosevelt had tremendous opposition even to Lend-Lease.
And fwiw, the Germans living here largely supported Hitler, as did the Irish.
But since you mention treaties and such, recall that at least one reason adduced for Iraq was to enforce UN resolutions. Lots of them.

So we leveled a country because they refused to follow a UN resolution that you "seem" to remember?

You people should stop splitting hairs and really look at the reality that is Iraq.

First, 15 of the 16 bombers were from Arabia.

Iraq is over 10 thousand miles away and never attacked the US.

Iraq was not in cahoots with al Qaeda. Saddam had enough problems without inviting an extremist organization that would be a threat to his own power.

It was al Qaeda that attacked the US.

Iraq's people are not better off.

Women's groups in Iraq say their lives were better under Saddam. I have put many links to this. Women now have to be escorted by a male relative. They are not allowed to work. Most no longer receive health care.

The Christian population have said their lives were much better and safer under Saddam. Many held positions of power. The were free to practice their religion. Since the invasion, their numbers have gone from an estimated 1.2 to 1.4 million to an estimate of less than 400,000. The churches have been burned. Many of their woman have been forced into Muslim marriages and forced to convert to Islam. Bush did NOT allow them to immigrate here. They were NOT protected by the US.


Republicans say that Iraqis are now "free" to have the government they want.
The new Iraqi Constitution makes "Islam" the National Religion. Article 2 and 3 states that all legislation is to be based on Islam. Iraq has announced in the constitution, that it is in the family of the Arab League of Nations, which of course, leaves out any non Arabs or Muslims.

This has opened the door to Sharia law and murder of gays and women and men who have been accused of adultery.

Iraq was a counter balance to Iran in the Middle East. That no longer exists.

Republicans are fixated on Saddam's "rape rooms". While there is no "proof" that the US government gave out blanket infected with "smallpox" to decrease the American Indian population, there is plenty of evidence that the US used blacks as experimental lab rats for generations knowingly letting them spread syphilis to wives and children, "Even when they had the cure". Even when many of these men joined the military to fight for "freedom" during WWII, the government purposely kept them infected with a fatal disease that causes delusions, insanity and host of horrific symptoms "just to see what would happen". We are not nearly as "pure" as Republicans want to believe they are. (Funny how Republcians are always trying to push their "morals" on everyone else, but they are out screwing anything that moves)

And so what did this "success" in Iraq bring us. Trillions of dollars of debt. Thrown shoes. A country that pretty much ignored us and now hates our guts and wants to see us die a painful death. This is the Republican definition of "WE WON". That's the reality. That's "How it is". The unvarnished truth.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wow, pulling out the stops. Straw men. Cowardly lions. Half truths, untruths, red herrings, all wrapped up in turgid prose with a dollop of hysteria.
If this be defeat, give me more of it!

You are a helpless shlemozel. The world goes through life spilling soup on you. You failed to respond to any of that and instead substituted your own laughable world view, which features, always, the US as villain in chief.

 

[PeterS]

Iraq War “To Do” List
1. Defeat Iraqi Military
2. Overrun Baghdad
3. Capture Saddam
4. Begin Martial Law
5. Defeat Insurgency
6. Facilitate Elections
7. Establish New Currency
8. Establish New Constitution
9. Establish Fair Markets
10. Rebuild infrastructure

10 for 10. Chalk it up for the Good Guys.

You should ask that question to the 150 plus that just died in the latest Baghdad bombing.

 

[mudwhistle]

Iraq War “To Do” List
1. Defeat Iraqi Military
2. Overrun Baghdad
3. Capture Saddam
4. Begin Martial Law
5. Defeat Insurgency
6. Facilitate Elections
7. Establish New Currency
8. Establish New Constitution
9. Establish Fair Markets
10. Rebuild infrastructure

10 for 10. Chalk it up for the Good Guys.

You should ask that question to the 150 plus that just died in the latest Baghdad bombing.

Like any of that is our friggen fault.

Instead of Saddam murdering them they're murdering each other.

Once again, like any of that is our friggen fault.

 

[PeterS]

Wow, pulling out the stops. Straw men. Cowardly lions. Half truths, untruths, red herrings, all wrapped up in turgid prose with a dollop of hysteria.
If this be defeat, give me more of it!

You are a helpless shlemozel. The world goes through life spilling soup on you. You failed to respond to any of that and instead substituted your own laughable world view, which features, always, the US as villain in chief.

"It was al Qaeda that attacked the US." Yeah, the argument was certainly strewn with fallacies wasn't it. It seems strange that for all the arguments from the right about 'winning' it is never in context with those whom we were, and are, actually at war with...

 

[rdean]

Wow, pulling out the stops. Straw men. Cowardly lions. Half truths, untruths, red herrings, all wrapped up in turgid prose with a dollop of hysteria.
If this be defeat, give me more of it!

You are a helpless shlemozel. The world goes through life spilling soup on you. You failed to respond to any of that and instead substituted your own laughable world view, which features, always, the US as villain in chief.

Half truths? Untruths? Red herrings?

Who even knows what you are talking about?

The right is the most uneducated political party in the history of the US. Worse, we have the internet. We can easily find out what is going on all around the world, and these people are determined to be as ignorant as possible.

Worse, they can be shown the truth and still, refuse to see it. They live in a fantasy.

The delusional right wing in a fantasy world where they are saving the world. Bush was crushed. He couldn't understand how come everyone was so ungrateful.

I love it when the right says, "You liar", but can't name the lie. It's gotta hurt.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wow, pulling out the stops. Straw men. Cowardly lions. Half truths, untruths, red herrings, all wrapped up in turgid prose with a dollop of hysteria.
If this be defeat, give me more of it!

You are a helpless shlemozel. The world goes through life spilling soup on you. You failed to respond to any of that and instead substituted your own laughable world view, which features, always, the US as villain in chief.

"It was al Qaeda that attacked the US." Yeah, the argument was certainly strewn with fallacies wasn't it. It seems strange that for all the arguments from the right about 'winning' it is never in context with those whom we were, and are, actually at war with...

Sigh. Some people never learn.
CLaiming that our justification for going to war with Iraq was because Iraq attacked us is a red herring. No one, ever, made that argument. I defy anyone on this board to find a source from the Bush Admin that claimed that.
Similarly claiming that the administration lied about intelligence might be the most debunked claim around. If the admin lied, so did every other intelligence service in the world, since they all reported pretty much the same thing.
But now Obama has us in the right war, the one we should have been waging from the start, right??

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did we win the 'war' in Iraq? How does one define 'Win'?
Did the 'enemy' surrender on the fantail of Missouri (BB-63)? Nope.
I suppose we need to ask the Iraqi people. At least those who survived our 'help'. Of course we cannot ask those killed yesterday, but maybe we could all chip in and buy a plane ticket to Baghdad for CrusderFrank; he could interview the mothers, fathers and children looking through the carnage for their husband, dad, mother, sister, brother - or parts of their loved one.

You should read the OP before you continue to embarrass yourself by posting your "ideas"

I posted what I considered to be the conditions met for victory and we met them all.

All of a sudden Libs care about dead and missing Iraqis. How they long for the return of Uncle Saddam

 

[HUGGY]

Art: Obama should get out of AStan.

Rabbi: You're a fuckwad and we should get out of AStan.

Art: But didn't I just say that we should get out of AStan?

Rabbi: You're a moron and no matter what Obama does I'm against it.

How fucking dare you recommend we leave Afghanistan first!

In reality, Rabbi is probably set on "Liberal bash" so anyone who dares not agree that Dubya is a god-like figure must obviously be a Obamabot and for continuing the war in Afghanistan. I'm another person who feels we should get the fuck out of that desert wasteland.

Desert? We wish. Try mountainous wasteland. In the desert you can see for miles when it isn't a sand storm. Difficult for an insurgent ambush. In the mountains..THIER MOUNTAINS you are lucky to see a quarter of a mile with hundreds of places for an ambush within line of sight. The dumbass jew knows nothing of mountain warfare. He claims it will be doable from his lazyboy. How casually he offers up the lives of our troops.