Show me the money

[smellthecoffee]

"Why are Iraqis so angry and willing to point the blame at the U.S. after this sort of bombing? A lot of it has to do with the failure of meaningful reconstruction. There still is not adequate electricity. In many towns like Ramadi there wasn't adequate water. Where is all the money that's going to Halliburton and Bechtel to rebuild this country? Where is it ending up? I think that is one of the most important fundamental causes of instability, is the corruption around the contracting with these Bush-connected firms in Iraq. Unless that is dealt with, there is going to be much more instability for times to come in Iraq."
Christian Parenti talking about Iraq on the March 2 broadcast of PBS's NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.

 

[Zhukov]

Who is Christian Parenti?

"He is an expert on the prison system, having researched and studied it as a journalist, scholar, and student for the past decade. "

http://www.diggers.org/freecitynews/_disc1/00000052.htm

This person is an expert on Iraq why?

Here's another site that came up:

http://www.soros.org/initiatives/justice/focus_areas/justice_fellows/grantees/christian_parenti

Soros, eh? Haven't heard that name before.

BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 16 (UPI) -- The Bush administration and supporters of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq will be heartened by new polling figures conducted by several major media organizations in Iraq that show 70 percent of Iraqis saying their life is good under occupation.

A recent, liberal, poll.

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040316-125334-4235r.htm

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by smellthecoffee
"Why are Iraqis so angry and willing to point the blame at the U.S. after this sort of bombing? A lot of it has to do with the failure of meaningful reconstruction. There still is not adequate electricity. In many towns like Ramadi there wasn't adequate water. Where is all the money that's going to Halliburton and Bechtel to rebuild this country? Where is it ending up? I think that is one of the most important fundamental causes of instability, is the corruption around the contracting with these Bush-connected firms in Iraq. Unless that is dealt with, there is going to be much more instability for times to come in Iraq."
Christian Parenti talking about Iraq on the March 2 broadcast of PBS's NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.

Electricity output is currently at a level higher than before the war, and has been since August.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/08/wiraq08.xml

Another article from shortly after war was declared over, discusses water, oil & fuel.
http://www.keepingapace.com/blogarchives/war/iraq_good_news_the_mainstream_media_omits.php

Here's what was accomplished in 2003:

# The first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty.
# Over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.
# Nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.
# The Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.
# On Monday, October 6, power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the prewar average.
# All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
# By October 1, Coalition forces had rehabilitated over 1,500 schools-500 more than scheduled.
# Teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.
# All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
# Doctors' salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.
# Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.
# The Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to Iraq's children.
# A Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals, which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.
# We have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production.
# There are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by year-end.
# The wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns.
# 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily.
# Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.
# The central bank is fully independent.
# Iraq has one of the world's most growth-oriented investment and banking laws.
# Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.
# Satellite TV dishes are legal.
# Foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other government spies.
# There is no Ministry of Information. (I. E., "Bagdad Bob")
# There are more than 170 newspapers.
# You can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.
# Foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.
# A nation that had not one single element-legislative, judicial or executive-of a representative government now does.
# In Baghdad alone, residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman.
# Today in Iraq, chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.
# 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.
# The Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July, the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world.
# Shia religious festivals that were all but banned aren't.
# For the first time in 35 years, in Karbala, thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.
# The Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.
# Uday and Queasy are dead-and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.
# Children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.
# Political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.
# Millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.
# Saudis will hold municipal elections.
# Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.
# Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.
# The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian-a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.
# Saddam is gone.
# Iraq is free.
# President Bush has not faltered or failed. Yet, the Press corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important has published little or none of this information.
# Iraq, under the US led Coalition, has come further in six months than Germany did in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military deaths from fanatic Nazi's and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued for over three years after WWII victory was declared.
# It took the US over four months to clear away the Twin Tower debris, let alone attempt to build something else in its place.

http://www.stevegrande.com/iraqgoodnews/2003a.html

 

[OCA]

Take that Smells like ass.

Excellent pick up Jimmy

 

[smellthecoffee]

OCA you seem incapable of contribution to ANY debate. Jim has responded in an excellent fashion ie using substance and sources. I commend him because it adds to debate and I take it on board. You, however, contribute nothing. If you have nothing to say relating to the issue at hand then why bother posting.
If peole consider you to be an idiot, it is better to remain quiet than to speak and revove all doubt.

 

[Zhukov]

...and yet it was OCA's post you chose to respond to...

 

[smellthecoffee]

I have addressed both posts. The thread start was to prompt a discussion. Jim has done that and I am reading and digesting the info he provided. You and OCD would be well advised to do the same. This is gradeschool stuff. your posts are generally much better than this. I know you have opinions and I enjoy reading them. Don't lower the bar.

 

[OCA]

I guess this anti- capitalist socialist has not read very many posts or threads. You chose to try and get on me rather than tackle Jimmy's post because you were just blown from the water. This on top of being delusional about Kerry's chances. Alittle fact for you to consider, never in the history of the U.S. has a sitting president been removed after 1 term with troops in a combat zone, the exception being Johnson who declined his party's nomination. Chew on that for a while.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by smellthecoffee
You and OCD would be well advised to do the same.

Excuse me? Why don't you address the questions I asked in the very first response.

 

[Zhukov]

From what I can tell from a quick search on Christian Parenti he is an anti-war liberal activist with an agenda. I can't find anything to indicate that this person knows what they are talking about or have ever been to Iraq. They do seem to be involved with George Soros' soft-money anti-Bush moveon.org and he seems to be a contributor to The Nation ( www.thenation.com ) who's homepage headlines leave no doubt as to their politics. Perhaps it would be more helpful to provide the opinion of a neutral observer.

At any rate, the character and politics of Christian Parenti are as irrelevant as his statments, as jimnyc has so clearly indicated.

So nevermind.

 

[smellthecoffee]

Why are you cons so unable to assess information on merit. You will never become more informed and venture out of the double wide if you immediately discount every opinion other than right wing, pro corporate, machismo driven, narrow, blindly parroted Bush propaganda. I was pleased to be enlightened about some of the achievements with regard to infastructure in the occupied Iraq and I thank Jim for providing the info. I don't think that the IMF and World Bank are necessarily good for Anyone but I was pleased with much of the things listed. The source was a model train fanatic, rather than any official but I accept much of the content. This thread was a point of intrest that I maintain is relevant and deserves discussion. News hour invited the speaker to be interviewed and I assume they felt his view was relevant and informed. I am unsuprised to find the ensuing barrage of Fox drivel. Examine some of this stuff will you! this site could be of genuine benefit to each of us. unfortunately it seems to be closed to any opposition or challenge to the strictly adhered to Govt/ corporate media line.

 

[Zhukov]

Well let this be a lesson to you then. It is important to asses the credibility of a source of information. I would no sooner trust the Moral Majority to give me accurate information regarding homosexuality or abortion than I would trust an opposition party peacnik to give me accurate information regarding the situation in Iraq in the middle of an election year.

You assumed he was an informed source? There's your problem. You're first question should have been, "who is this guy?." I have previously provided several links. Please read some off the leftist drivel he has promulgated.

As I stated earlier, perhaps it would be better to provide the opinion of a more neutral observer.

 

[smellthecoffee]

I take your point Zhukov. We also run into the issue of how you assess credibility though. Is Richard Clark credible or is he running an agenda. the same questions for Cheney. David Kay, Hans Blix, and so on. Perhaps there is some merit in examination of the premise. A neo conservative may infuriate me but may also happen to be, on a particular occasion, speaking accurately. We enter a grey area when we start an automatic trust of those with position or power. Mike Moore must grace millions of dartboards but he may also, at times, talk with accuracy. I am not as concerned with the speaker as I am with the content sometimes. However I concede that a balance is most probably the solution.