Should Ukraine take the Ukraine-Russia War into Russia?

[Seymour Flops]

I did not know that it is the official policy of the United States that no, the Ukraine-Russia war should be contained in Ukraine, even if Ukraine has or develops the ability to cross the border with troops, aircraft or missiles.



Now, my opinion is first and foremost that we should be staying out of the war in Europe, and should not spend another penny. Ukraine is not a NATO member. If Europe wants to help, fine. But if they can intervene without us, we need to reconsider how much foreign aid with give them.

But for some of the hawkish on Ukraine members of this forum, what do you think? It seems that by asking Ukraine not to take advantage of opportunities to fight back, we would only prolong the war.

 

[skye]

If NATO and the collective West want a Nuclear War, then take the Ukraine war into Russia.

 

[Oddball]

They're not going to take it as far as Crimea or the Donbas.

Tenpercentskyy would be well advised to bone up on the Shah of Iran and Ngo Din Diem.

 

[White 6]

I did not know that it is the official policy of the United States that no, the Ukraine-Russia war should be contained in Ukraine, even if Ukraine has or develops the ability to cross the border with troops, aircraft or missiles.



Now, my opinion is first and foremost that we should be staying out of the war in Europe, and should not spend another penny. Ukraine is not a NATO member. If Europe wants to help, fine. But if they can intervene without us, we need to reconsider how much foreign aid with give them.

But for some of the hawkish on Ukraine members of this forum, what do you think? It seems that by asking Ukraine not to take advantage of opportunities to fight back, we would only prolong the war.

At this time, from a military standpoint, ground attacks into Russia would be foolish. That said, it is really up to them. I totally support them fighting within their country to keep or reclaim their country, but that does not preclude military command & Control or key military logistic targets that could be fired upon inside Russia with various system from their side of the border.

 

[JGalt]

I did not know that it is the official policy of the United States that no, the Ukraine-Russia war should be contained in Ukraine, even if Ukraine has or develops the ability to cross the border with troops, aircraft or missiles.



Now, my opinion is first and foremost that we should be staying out of the war in Europe, and should not spend another penny. Ukraine is not a NATO member. If Europe wants to help, fine. But if they can intervene without us, we need to reconsider how much foreign aid with give them.

But for some of the hawkish on Ukraine members of this forum, what do you think? It seems that by asking Ukraine not to take advantage of opportunities to fight back, we would only prolong the war.

Probably not a good idea. Russia has only been fighting for a small piece of territory so far. Territory they believe is rightfully theirs because of the old Soviet Union. But if Russia itself were attacked, they'd probably respond as they did when they were at war with Nazi Germany by throwing everything they had at the Ukes, and anyone else who got in their way.

What we need more than ever right now are the peacemakers, not more drum-beaters and war-mongers. I know it's a cliche, but Trump would have had this in the bag by now, the way he worked out a deal between the UAE and Israel.

 

[JGalt]

At this time, from a military standpoint, ground attacks into Russia would be foolish. That said, it is really up to them. I totally support them fighting within their country to keep or reclaim their country, but that does not preclude military command & Control or key military logistic targets that could be fired upon inside Russia with various system from their side of the border.

That would probably just instill a feeling of national pride and patriotism in the Russians. I doubt if all Russians care about owning a piece of Ukraine, only the more hard-core Russians who remember the Soviet Union. But an attack on Russian soil would probably just galvanize the country into using an excess amount of force.

 

[Litwin]

Now, my opinion is first and foremost that we should be staying out of the war in Europe, and should not spend another penny. Ukraine is not a NATO member. If Europe wants to help, fine. But if they can intervene without us, we need to reconsider how much foreign aid with give them.

I see, one more ivan´s cuckold

read this :

 

[Litwin]

But an attack on Russian soil would probably just galvanize the country into using an excess amount of force.

the direct attacks on the evil empire work just fine, infighting and panic already created , feels like 1917N2

 

[Litwin]

At this time, from a military standpoint, ground attacks into Russia would be foolish.

i dont think so, as far as I know England is behind of these attacks, they know the drill.

BREAKING : GRU "Wagner" Nazi Utkin vs Chechen Muslim Warlords . THIS IS THE REAL MESS. WHO ´LL WIN ?

this is the real thing , real one . Utkin took the size and Kadyrov´s Muslim did, so WHO ´LL WIN ? a difficult case for our commies BREAKING : GRU "Wagner" Nazi Utkin vs Chechen Muslim Warlords . THIS IS THE REAL MESS. WHO ´LL WIN ?

www.usmessageboard.com

dont forget we see only the tip of the iceberg (Moscow elites )

 

[MisterBeale]

I did not know that it is the official policy of the United States that no, the Ukraine-Russia war should be contained in Ukraine, even if Ukraine has or develops the ability to cross the border with troops, aircraft or missiles.



Now, my opinion is first and foremost that we should be staying out of the war in Europe, and should not spend another penny. Ukraine is not a NATO member. If Europe wants to help, fine. But if they can intervene without us, we need to reconsider how much foreign aid with give them.

But for some of the hawkish on Ukraine members of this forum, what do you think? It seems that by asking Ukraine not to take advantage of opportunities to fight back, we would only prolong the war.

While it has been declared outwardly, that any foreign military aid is not to be used in offensive operations against Russia, most of this public politicking. . is, well, B.S. IMO.

Is has also been stated, at this point, that the, "wish," and "hope," of the NATO and Washington, is for, "regime change." What this means, is they are looking for Russian and other allies, in the Russian Federation to overthrown Putin. Thus, there will, undoubtedly be, NATO and American funded, clandestine operations, should the opportunity present itself.

. . . and if they can get away with it, all the while, with, "plausible deniability." That phrase, has been sort of stretched beyond belief these days though, IMO. I mean hell, look that that Russian gas pipeline that was destroyed.

John Mearsheimer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

John Mearsheimer Ukraine Salon​

277,586 views May 23, 2023
"The Biden Administration is engulfed in a staggeringly expensive folly in Ukraine with no foreseeable good outcomes. The Committee hosted University of Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer the week after the Russian invasion fourteen months ago. That zoom salon had 1,136,000 views. The Committee has invited John to return -- this time in person.

John will argue twin themes: First, we are in a war where both sides – Ukraine and the West versus Russia – see the other as an existential threat. That makes a workable peace agreement beyond reach. The best possible outcome is a frozen conflict that is likely to have a variety of terrible consequences. The worst possible outcome is a nuclear war, which is unlikely but cannot be ruled out. Second, Russia is going to win the war, although it is not going to decisively defeat Ukraine. It will end up, however, conquering a large swath of Ukrainian territory and making it part of Russia, while at the same time turning Ukraine into a dysfunctional rump state.

The Committee would not be holding this salon over Ukraine if we had been faithful to constitutional processes. The systematic provision of $113 billion in military assistance to Ukraine in its war with Russia makes the United States a co-belligerent requiring a congressional declaration. But no co-belligerency declaration has been initiated by Congress nor sought by President Joe Biden. If Congress were required to vote, it would balk at co-belligerency as it balked in 2013 when President Barack Obama asked for a declaration of war against Syria and as it balked in 1999 when President Bill Clinton asked for a declaration of war against Serbia."

 

[MisterBeale]

I know it's a cliche, but Trump would have had this in the bag by now, the way he worked out a deal between the UAE and Israel.

Would Trump really pull out of Ukraine? With John Mearsheimer | SpectatorTV​

 

[toomuchtime_]

I did not know that it is the official policy of the United States that no, the Ukraine-Russia war should be contained in Ukraine, even if Ukraine has or develops the ability to cross the border with troops, aircraft or missiles.



Now, my opinion is first and foremost that we should be staying out of the war in Europe, and should not spend another penny. Ukraine is not a NATO member. If Europe wants to help, fine. But if they can intervene without us, we need to reconsider how much foreign aid with give them.

But for some of the hawkish on Ukraine members of this forum, what do you think? It seems that by asking Ukraine not to take advantage of opportunities to fight back, we would only prolong the war.

The US has demanded that Ukraine not use US weapons to attack Russia but has not presumed to tell Ukraine how to defend itself otherwise. The State Department and Pentagon have said they are satisfied that Ukraine has not used US supplied weapons to attack inside Russia.

The fact that the US is not compelled by treaty to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russian invasion does not mean it is not the right thing to do. For the US to refuse to aid Ukraine to resist the Russian invasion would constitute a break with US foreign policy since WWII, put the US at odds with nearly all of its allies, weaken NATO, weaken the UN and radically reduce US influence around the world.

There are no compelling arguments that aiding Ukraine in its efforts to resist the Russian invasion will harm the US in any way. The argument that the US cannot afford to provide this aid is false. There is no evidence that any domestic project has been sidelined because of US aid to Ukraine. It is not even clear what the net cost of this aid is to the taxpayer, since sending this aid to Ukraine provides increases jobs in the manufacturing and research of military products, which increase tax revenues. In addition, it has produced increased sales of US military product from other countries.

The argument that providing this aid will get us involved in a war with Russia has no basis in fact or logic. Putin may be stupid and delusional, but there is no evidence he is suicidal, so he will not challenge the US.

Helping Ukraine stop Russian imperialist aggression in Europe will be a definite plus for western civilization, and allowing Russia to win in Ukraine will undoubtedly lead to more Russian aggression in Europe with all its disruptions to the global economy and to the US economy.

 

[Litwin]

Mearsheimer

he is very popular " expert " on RT and Hamas TV

Russia Promotes 'Israel Lobby' Author to Defend Invasion of Ukraine

The Russian Foreign Ministry is promoting an anti-Israel author to justify its invasion of Ukraine.

freebeacon.com

Moscow's chief propaganda arm on Monday tweeted an article by American author John Mearsheimer, who penned the book, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy. The book accuses pro-Israel advocates in America of manipulating the American foreign policy establishment, a claim that was widely discredited as an anti-Semitic canard.

Russia's foreign ministry promoted a 2014 article by Mearsheimer titled, "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault." The article argues that Western nations are responsible for creating a Ukraine that opposes Russian influence, and that this is responsible for Moscow's interference in the country. The article attempts to justify Russian war maneuvers in Ukraine, as is currently taking place.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I see, one more ivan´s cuckold

read this :

View attachment 792074

OMG, You're right!

Quickly, Litwin! Stop searching for memes and get to the battlefield in Ukraine!

 

[MisterBeale]

he is very popular " expert " on RT and Hamas TV

Russia Promotes 'Israel Lobby' Author to Defend Invasion of Ukraine

The Russian Foreign Ministry is promoting an anti-Israel author to justify its invasion of Ukraine.

freebeacon.com

Moscow's chief propaganda arm on Monday tweeted an article by American author John Mearsheimer, who penned the book, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy. The book accuses pro-Israel advocates in America of manipulating the American foreign policy establishment, a claim that was widely discredited as an anti-Semitic canard.

Russia's foreign ministry promoted a 2014 article by Mearsheimer titled, "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault." The article argues that Western nations are responsible for creating a Ukraine that opposes Russian influence, and that this is responsible for Moscow's interference in the country. The article attempts to justify Russian war maneuvers in Ukraine, as is currently taking place.

So? You are telling the forum you have Russiophobia, and cannot debate any arguments on their merits? Is that all?

 

[JGalt]

OMG, You're right!

Quickly, Litwin! Stop searching for memes and get to the battlefield in Ukraine!

He doesn't understand that he's soliciting support from a people who are just tired of the last 20 years of war in the Middle East. Democrats were all gung ho when the Ukraine War started and the blue and yellow flags were flying in their yards. They thought it would all be over in a month or two and we wouldn't have much skin in the game.

But now that it appears to be another "endless war" that grows closer every day to dragging us into the middle of. It's draining us of money we don't really have. I wonder how much longer even the Democrats are going to continue supporting it. Like every other "current thing", the Democrat's support for the war will probably wane and be replaced with the next "current thing." In fact, it probably already has, judging by their sudden fascination with cross-dressers and sexual freaks.

 

[Litwin]

forum you have Russiophobia,

edit for you : anti-imperialism. qestion , what is your opinion on Moscow hardcore , fascist style imperialism ?

 

[MisterBeale]

edit for you : anti-imperialism. qestion , what is your opinion on Moscow hardcore , fascist style imperialism ?



View attachment 792117

I don't really have much of one, TBH.

That's not my country, or my nation.

But, if you want me to form one? From what it looks like? It happened before the U.S. was even a nation. All that, supposed, "imperialism," is ancient history.

Wanting to re-litigate that history, is like lobbying for the Lakota people in this nation, to have their sovereignty back.
It is a pipe dream, born out of your hate of the existing ruling structure in Russia.

Republic of Lakotah proposal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Map of North America with the proposed Republic of Lakotah

Just like most of the folks that would make up the Republic of Lakotah, would now still speak English? Most of the folks that want to break away, and have republics made up of nations that were conquered by Moscow three centuries ago or more? They all speak, mostly Russian now. Most of them identify as Russians, except of course, the few political malcontents you find in yoar political agitprop fantasy YouTube vids.

You hate Russians so much, you are completely disconnected from Realpolitik, seriously. I doubt any of that would happen, and if it did, it would create a serious power vacuum.
I shudder to think about the economic fallout for Russians, not even to contemplate what would happen to all the nuclear, chemical, and biological materials and the black market. No sane person would want the break-up of Russia. Maybe a change in their leadership or political organization, but a complete break-up? Yeah, just about as much as a complete break-up of China or the U.S.

Come back to Earth now Litwin.

 

[skye]

If the collective West and NATO are itching for a nuclear war with Russia....they will have it.

Better think twice.

 

[banana 777]

Should Ukraine take the Ukraine-Russia War into Russia?​

They have neither supplies nor reserves to do either on any long-term or serious basis .
They are just trying to further deflect from the awful overall mess they are in and the terrible beating they are taking .
Moscow simply continues to grind away with likely gains of another four regions before telling NATO exactly what they are prepared to agree -- or else .