Should the US defend Taiwan from China?

[Circe]

PRC is saber rattling pure and simple.
They will be unable to afford a conflict. If they wish to be just like Russia all they need do is engage America in a war. Russia is still wanting an opportunity to attack them and make them pay for their behavior...PRC hasn't stolen intellectual property from only America. Then there's how PRC behaved during Korean War. Stirring up conflict...

Our technology is superior and PRC will find out about embargoes and loss of ports and infrastructure immediately...they are much more vulnerable than the USA due to their junk bond crisis.

They will lose several trading partners who buy more than they sell...and they can't afford that.

They are on the verge of self destruction now...their only hope is to grow their economy to get out of their crisis. Evernote is only the tip of the iceberg.

I don't think you are right, and this is what I think everyone forgets: the huge Chinese population, five times ours, and far larger proportion of males (sex selected births). Every smart person we have, every bomber pilot we have, they have five.

I don't think they are just saber-rattling (that's North Korea) because this IS their opportunity, after all ----- they may not get another so good. They have thrown the world into total confusion by letting loose a pandemic on us all, they've been building their military up fast for years, and now WE have a prez who is weak ruling a nation way too divided to fight a war even if they were invading through Mexico! This is China's chance to take Taiwan, and I'm watching to see when they do it.

 

[Circe]

The answer s obvious:

What you don't protect and preserve, you lose.​

Our loss is China's gain.​

Once China sees the Biden USA weakness, they will explode in further grabs of power.​

So yes we have to defend Taiwan to protect our own interests, but China knows that Biden won't because he already sold out to them years ago, just has much of our federal government.​

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Sure, agreed, China is ALREADY making more power grabs, with their ship intercepts, their new islands, their building up more islands to keep everyone out of the China Sea. Biden is too weak to take us to war against China, but anyone would be, maybe even Trump, though he might try, because we are so fatally disunited now.

You are saying we should but we can't, and I never thought we should (because geographically Taiwan is in the same position to China as Cuba is to us, in their sphere of influence) but I agree we can't, because Biden is too weak and America is not at all strong enough. May never be strong enough for war again, before a break-up, I'd say.

 

[Circe]

The Left would probably love a war, because only the Right would fight, and so they could get rid of us.

 

[Mac-7]

PRC is saber rattling pure and simple.
They will be unable to afford a conflict.

China has a lot of internal problems that could lead to serious domestic intranquility

The economy is slowing, workers are losing their jobs without any government support

Plus massive flooding and crop failures

Yes they are saber rattling

But china might go too far and start a war rather than back down and lose face

 

[JohnDB]

I don't think you are right, and this is what I think everyone forgets: the huge Chinese population, five times ours, and far larger proportion of males (sex selected births). Every smart person we have, every bomber pilot we have, they have five.

I don't think they are just saber-rattling (that's North Korea) because this IS their opportunity, after all ----- they may not get another so good. They have thrown the world into total confusion by letting loose a pandemic on us all, they've been building their military up fast for years, and now WE have a prez who is weak ruling a nation way too divided to fight a war even if they were invading through Mexico! This is China's chance to take Taiwan, and I'm watching to see when they do it.

The whole world is watching and against PRC doing so...they all have a financial interest in PRC not controlling Taiwan.

China is currently engaged in a border skirmish with Taiwan and Burma both. Hong Kong is going along reluctantly with PRC control but it won't take much for them to revolt against them for their own reasons.

You can't fight the whole world no matter how good your attitude is.

 

[JohnDB]

China has a lot of internal problems that could lead to serious domestic intranquility

The economy is slowing, workers are losing their jobs without any government support

Plus massive flooding and crop failures

Yes they are saber rattling

But china might go too far and start a war rather than back down and lose face

Exactly...they need to stop saber rattling and claim whatever victory they really didn't get and shut up and calm down before they get into something they can't back down from or afford to engage in.

 

[Circe]

The whole world is watching and against PRC doing so...they all have a financial interest in PRC not controlling Taiwan.

China is currently engaged in a border skirmish with Taiwan and Burma both. Hong Kong is going along reluctantly with PRC control but it won't take much for them to revolt against them for their own reasons.

You can't fight the whole world no matter how good your attitude is.

Very true, and that was Hitler's mistake. He did sort of say he meant to take over the world, after which the whole world decided to fight him. I have long thought that the fear of the world turning on us that way is why we fight wars in such a weak and unsuccessful way, pretending to be friends right while we are invading them. Never really fighting, killing, and winning, decade after decade, since Korea. Had Macarthur used nukes and won the Korean War, WOULD the world have turned on us in fear? I think that possibility is why Truman didn't let him.

Hong Kong already did their revolt: been there, done that, it's over, they lost. Lost is lost.

China is not so stupid as to talk of conquering the world. They say they are protecting their local sea and places in their sphere of interest. Given our weakness, they are sure to get away with it, IMO. After all, Japan did ----------- until they attacked Pearl Harbor. They marauded through China, Manchuria, whereever, and we did not stop them. We stopped selling them scrap metal to make into armaments, but that was pretty much it.

I don't think China is that short-sighted! By now, not waking the Sleeping Giant is a pretty well-known strategy. Not that we are much of a giant anymore, of course. Our country is far too heterogeneous to be able to fight, much like Austria-Hungary in WWI.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This poll lacks votes. WTF is everyone waiting for?

VOTE BITCHES

If this was a love/hate Trump or Biden poll it would have tons of votes by now...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We lost: we were supposed to free ALLLLLL of Korea.

North Korea invaded South Korea.
We ejected them. How is that a loss?

 

[Persuader]

50 nations, nothing! It was us. It was real, real cold in Inchon, I hear, and the whole thing was on us, and the Chinese poured across the border and we LOST.

Let's don't do that again.

It was mostly the U.S. but all allied troops there fought under the U.N. Banner.
Sixteen UN nations supplied fighting units and five sent military hospitals and field ambulances. Australia was one of the very first to contribute military personnel from all three services. The single largest UN contributor was the United States of America (USA) which at one stage had 140,000 personnel deployed in direct combat roles in Korea. Great Britain, Canada, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Colombia, Ethiopia, South Africa, New Zealand, Turkey, Greece, Thailand, Philippines and Luxembourg sent fighting units. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, India, Italy contributed military hospitals and field ambulances to the cause.

I did a cursory check for how many troops each country contributed but could not find how many each nation contributedd.....probably did not use the correct search term....I might try it again later if no one else can come up with the numbers.

But for sure the U.S. was the primary fighting force.



Korean Vets will tell you the Turks were great fighters.

Korean War Casualty Stats

 

[Persuader]

Yes, and we lost.

Same with Vietnam.

Like the song says, "When will we ever learn/When will we ... ever learn."

Most historians call it a stalemate....MacArthur told Truman 'There is no substitute for victory'

Truman insisted on calling it a police action.

Those who fought there laughed at that concept.

 

[Persuader]

North Korea invaded South Korea.
We ejected them. How is that a loss?

The U.S. (under the un banner) invaded N. Korea....China ejected the U.S. from N. Korea

Thus most Historians call it a stalemate.

I agree more with MacArthurs view....if you are not winning you are losing.

 

[Circe]

It was mostly the U.S. but all allied troops there fought under the U.N. Banner.
Sixteen UN nations supplied fighting units and five sent military hospitals and field ambulances. Australia was one of the very first to contribute military personnel from all three services. The single largest UN contributor was the United States of America (USA) which at one stage had 140,000 personnel deployed in direct combat roles in Korea. Great Britain, Canada, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Colombia, Ethiopia, South Africa, New Zealand, Turkey, Greece, Thailand, Philippines and Luxembourg sent fighting units. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, India, Italy contributed military hospitals and field ambulances to the cause.

I did a cursory check for how many troops each country contributed but could not find how many each nation contributedd.....probably did not use the correct search term....I might try it again later if no one else can come up with the numbers.

But for sure the U.S. was the primary fighting force.



Korean Vets will tell you the Turks were great fighters.

Korean War Casualty Stats

You can't find out how many troops countries contributed because they didn't, of course. They left it to us: it was our war, after all.

 

[Circe]

Most historians call it a stalemate....MacArthur told Truman 'There is no substitute for victory'

Truman insisted on calling it a police action.

Those who fought there laughed at that concept.

Oh, yeah, it was a terrible, bitter war, not a "police action."

 

[Circe]

The U.S. (under the un banner) invaded N. Korea....China ejected the U.S. from N. Korea

Thus most Historians call it a stalemate.

I agree more with MacArthurs view....if you are not winning you are losing.

Interesting. My husband so agrees with you: that MacArthur should have used the nukes. I am still thinking that there could have been a problem about our having terrifying nuclear weapons that shot us right into the hated Hitler position with the whole world. This is a new thought born of more perspective of late years; we cannot know what might have been, though. Maybe we'd have conquered the world, like Rome.

Maybe not.

 

[Persuader]

Interesting. My husband so agrees with you: that MacArthur should have used the nukes. I am still thinking that there could have been a problem about our having terrifying nuclear weapons that shot us right into the hated Hitler position with the whole world. This is a new thought born of more perspective of late years; we cannot know what might have been, though. Maybe we'd have conquered the world, like Rome.

Maybe not.

I do not think we would have needed Nukes to defeat China during the Korean War....though Mac from what I have read did want to use them and even Ike made the threat if certain conditions were not lived up to.

If we were to defeat China it would have grown into a much bigger war which would have necessitated a huge build up in our forces....particuarly the Air Force....as it would have required much bombing in China.

The American people simply did not want that....thus they voted for Ike who promised to go to Korea and end the war and he went and he ended the war.

In hindsight I think Macarthur was correct....we should have defeated China and if we had eliminated communism there we would not be under threat....a huge threat today from Communist China.

 

[Persuader]

You can't find out how many troops countries contributed because they didn't, of course. They left it to us: it was our war, after all.

The U.N. backed our action.....I posted the casualty list from the various countries that fought there.
The S. Koreans lost a lot more people than we did thus it was not strictly our war.

 

[Persuader]

I don't think you are right, and this is what I think everyone forgets: the huge Chinese population, five times ours, and far larger proportion of males (sex selected births). Every smart person we have, every bomber pilot we have, they have five.

I don't think they are just saber-rattling (that's North Korea) because this IS their opportunity, after all ----- they may not get another so good. They have thrown the world into total confusion by letting loose a pandemic on us all, they've been building their military up fast for years, and now WE have a prez who is weak ruling a nation way too divided to fight a war even if they were invading through Mexico! This is China's chance to take Taiwan, and I'm watching to see when they do it.

Unfortunately for us.....I think you are right.

If biden is not removed somehow or someway very soon we face very,very dark times.

 

[Persuader]

China has a lot of internal problems that could lead to serious domestic intranquility

The economy is slowing, workers are losing their jobs without any government support

Plus massive flooding and crop failures

Yes they are saber rattling

But china might go too far and start a war rather than back down and lose face

I do not think China is merely saber rattling....I think they have a plan.....they have thought about all this long and hard.....and they are very clever....much, much smarter than the Western World who they have played now for decades.

Ever since the days of Mao they have let it be known that they will one day take over Taiwan.

Yet...I do think they want to do it in a peaceful manner...and Joe Biden is a great opportunity for them to do that.

What they are doing with the over-flights is to ratchet up the pressure in a gradual manner....to convince the U.S. they are serious and if we interfere there will be severe repercussions.

They are going to increase the pressure until there is some sort of limited military action which will provoke a big pow wow between the U.S. and China; at which time they will make it very,very clear to joe what they will do if they cannot get an agreement similar to the Hong Kong agreement with the U.K.

And we all know what joe will do.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The U.S. (under the un banner) invaded N. Korea....China ejected the U.S. from N. Korea

Thus most Historians call it a stalemate.

I agree more with MacArthurs view....if you are not winning you are losing.

The U.S. (under the un banner) invaded N. Korea....China ejected the U.S. from N. Korea

North Korea invaded South Korea....the US ejected China and North Korea from South Korea.