It's not a biblical debate, it's a debate about values.
Jesus said the highest ideal was to love your neighbor as yourself.
Why can't we do that?
Should hospitals be free to dump penniless emergencies.
- Thread starter mattskramer
- Start date
It's not a biblical debate, it's a debate about values.
Jesus said the highest ideal was to love your neighbor as yourself.
Why can't we do that?
alan1
Gold Member
The bible says "An eye for an eye", why can't we do that?
This isn't a biblical debate, but if you want to turn it into one, I'm sure I can make you look just as stupid as you really are.
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I believe in the words of Jesus, not the bible.
Shouldn't our highest ideal be to love our neighbor as ourselves?
alan1
Gold Member
Pick which part of the bible you want,
Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom. Get wisdom.
Luke 2:40 Jesus was filled with wisdom and found favor with God.
Corinthians 1:19-25 Wisdom is foolishness.
dilloduck
Diamond Member
I think one sorta misses the point by grabbing a bit here and a bit there, dontcha think ?
alan1
Gold Member
When one wants to pick and choose which parts they want to believe in, I give them a choice.
dilloduck
Diamond Member
Valerie
Platinum Member
- Sep 17, 2008
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alan1
Gold Member
Of course.
I'm only here to help.
And cause trouble.
dilloduck
Diamond Member
Of course.
I'm only here to help.
And cause trouble.
naturally---the blade cuts both ways !
alan1
Gold Member
naturally---the blade cuts both ways !
Especially the double edged swords.
I think one sort of misses the point when one ignores the words of Jesus, don'tcha think?
mskafka
Silver Member
I think what is being forgotten here is that hospitals are a business. The doctors, nurses and all the diagnostic machines down to the cafeteria are all run on a profit. Without that profit, they would not exist. Even the emergency staff and the machines are costing the hospital staff a lot of money. How do you propose all of that is to be paid for? It just doesn't fall out of the heavens. Yes, we American tax payers are paying for it. Aren't you angered that the illegal aliens from Mexico are sucking off our taxpayer money for care in the emergency room, and that you must wait for hours to receive emergency care while waiting in the emergency room because of these leeches? I am.....NO, sbsolutely NOT....any emergency must be treated immediately by the hospital, with no concern or thought on whether you have insurance or can pay for it.
not to do such hurts all of our medical treatment and care....i want NO DOCTOR OR HOSPITAL to wait till my husband can get there with my insurance card when my leg has been severed!
it is also INHUMANE to require money to save ones life in an emergency! SHAME ON all of you that said YES!the supposed religious ones saying yes, is mind boggling!
I was surprised that there was so much hemming and hawing and ducking and dodging such a straight forward question: Should hospitals be free to dump penniless emergency patients?
Yes, it is frustrating. But it is an ethical and a legal duty. Whatever language the patient speaks...."help me!"...is universally understood.
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
if it wasnt for the Bible....no one would have known what Christ said.....so that book is telling you what Jesus said.....
mskafka
Silver Member
You will have to go for the throat of the wealthy businessmen and women who are hiring them. It amazes me....the level of hypocrisy that I've heard over the years. Almost everyone wants immigration reform. BUT, as someone on here pointed out to me recently, the evil government won't stop overtaxing businesses. So they (business owners) are "forced", to resort to tax evasion. They want to have their cake and eat it too. So the immigrants (illegal) are hired, and no taxes have to be paid on their wages. No healthcare benefits... And my favorite: "They will do the jobs that Americans won't do.".
And many of these same people are shouting about illegal immigration, and how an enormous fence along our Southern border is the answer. It's on both sides of the aisle folks. It isn't party-specific. Even though liberals are accused of being soft on the issue. But it's okay if they themselves do it. It's justified.
So....for those of you who believe the first paragraph: that it is okay to hire illegals because of the taxes, and because American workers are too lazy to do jobs they feel are below them...consider the contradiction of what you are saying, and what you actually believe. Do you want people here illegally? If you have found yourself repeating any of those fallacies, then maybe you're not anti-illegal.
And many of these same people are shouting about illegal immigration, and how an enormous fence along our Southern border is the answer. It's on both sides of the aisle folks. It isn't party-specific. Even though liberals are accused of being soft on the issue. But it's okay if they themselves do it. It's justified.
So....for those of you who believe the first paragraph: that it is okay to hire illegals because of the taxes, and because American workers are too lazy to do jobs they feel are below them...consider the contradiction of what you are saying, and what you actually believe. Do you want people here illegally? If you have found yourself repeating any of those fallacies, then maybe you're not anti-illegal.
That book?
The Bible is collection of many books written by many different people, some of them unknown.
if starving and hungry...you can pick food from a farmers field to eat it and it was NOT considered theft according to the Bible/God!
not certain on restaurants or eating a fruit in a supermarket if starving, that you could not afford? But if the passage about starving and eating from a "farmer's field" can be translated in to these other circumstances, I would imagine under God's laws, not US Law, eating the fruit in the supermarket or ordering a meal that you know you will not be able to pay for in a restaurant if you are basically starving, is not a crime.
Somehow, our Nation made of Christians and others that are religious, have lost their way...I'm afraid they are 'waxed over cold' as the Bible predicts in prophesy....(they suffer from the me, me, me syndrome and the 'love of money' above people.)
care
Isn't there a passage in the bible that says to follow the laws of the land?
yes...but this is a case where what our Creator gave us, what we were endowed with, (human life) TRUMPS the law of the land!
THIS is the lesson behind the Good Samaritan parable mountain man, that is often missed.
There was a man, who was robbed and beaten and bloodied on the side of the road. A Levite and a Priest, both of high Religious Governing status among the Jews, passed this severely beaten man on the road, and both, at separate times during the day, left this man there, where he was going to die, and just walked right past him.
Supposedly, the Levite and the Priest, were following God's Law...which forbade them from working on the Sabbath, with other religious concerns and laws on the uncleanliness of human blood etc...AND THIS is why these two men passed the injured man and left him for dead....they were following the Law.....supposedly God's written rules in the Bible...
Then came along a Samaritan man....(the Samaritans were considered a lowly tribe among the Jews...)and this man stopped and helped the man that was left for dead...he carried him in to town and put him up in a hotel, and washed and cleaned his wounds and fed him....he had other business to do and the injured man took him out of his way in order for the Samaritan to help him...but he had to get back to this business and head to the area where he originally set out to go, but left money with the innkeeper for the injured man's room for a few days worth, including food...and he told the innkeeper to please take care of him and if the money he left was not enough because the man needed longer to get healed, he would return by the inn on his way home from his business and pay the innkeeper what was owed him and to see how the man was doing.
Christ then asked his apostles, who they thought was truly following God's Law? And they answered correctly, the Samaritan man...
Christ pointed out that NOTHING, (no law 'of not working on the Sabbath' as example) would ever out trump the caring for any human life injured or sick or in emergency need...
Often, Christ pointed out that their supposed religious...the Levite, the Priests, the Sadducee, etc were hypocrites and totally misunderstood or twisted God's Laws for their own purposes....
So, if we take this parable and others that Christ gave regarding following the Laws of the Sabbath which were the Laws of the Land to them...(He was criticized by the Religious Jews for healing a man on the Sabbath and set them straight on such, on another occasion)
and how Christ taught that those Laws were meant to be broken if a human was in need or you had a chance to do a good deed for a human in need or the plain fact that saving another person's life and feeding another person with the fruit in your field if they are hungry or starving and even without them asking....was what God wanted you to do...
then to me the man starving and feeding himself by taking fruit from your field and eating it as the example, would also ethicallt cover the man taking fruit from your grocery stand and eating it, without the ability to pay, and should not be considered a thief and should not be charged with a crime....
I know that is hard for us to accept...but if HUMANS really do come first, and their well being and survival comes first, above all other Laws of the land in the Bible as lessons to us...such as the Good Samaritan and the one of the hungry guy in the field...then I too see this as ethical....
Oh, and on the story about the man starving and eating the fruit of a farmer...he was not considered a thief or stealing anything AS LONG AS he did not leave the farmer's field with any of the fruit or was to sell off any of the farmer's fruit...ONLY if he ate the fruit and veggies while he was in their field, out of pure hunger, was he not considered a thief....or breaking the Law...but if he took any with him to profit from it, then he was stealing....
Sorry for rambling on...
Care
mskafka
Silver Member
if starving and hungry...you can pick food from a farmers field to eat it and it was NOT considered theft according to the Bible/God!
not certain on restaurants or eating a fruit in a supermarket if starving, that you could not afford? But if the passage about starving and eating from a "farmer's field" can be translated in to these other circumstances, I would imagine under God's laws, not US Law, eating the fruit in the supermarket or ordering a meal that you know you will not be able to pay for in a restaurant if you are basically starving, is not a crime.
Somehow, our Nation made of Christians and others that are religious, have lost their way...I'm afraid they are 'waxed over cold' as the Bible predicts in prophesy....(they suffer from the me, me, me syndrome and the 'love of money' above people.)
care
Isn't there a passage in the bible that says to follow the laws of the land?
yes...but this is a case where what our Creator gave us, what we were endowed with, (human life) TRUMPS the law of the land!
THIS is the lesson behind the Good Samaritan parable mountain man, that is often missed.
There was a man, who was robbed and beaten and bloodied on the side of the road. A Levite and a Priest, both of high Religious Governing status among the Jews, passed this severely beaten man on the road, and both, at separate times during the day, left this man there, where he was going to die, and just walked right past him.
Supposedly, the Levite and the Priest, were following God's Law...which forbade them from working on the Sabbath, with other religious concerns and laws on the uncleanliness of human blood etc...AND THIS is why these two men passed the injured man and left him for dead....they were following the Law.....supposedly God's written rules in the Bible...
Then came along a Samaritan man....(the Samaritans were considered a lowly tribe among the Jews...)and this man stopped and helped the man that was left for dead...he carried him in to town and put him up in a hotel, and washed and cleaned his wounds and fed him....he had other business to do and the injured man took him out of his way in order for the Samaritan to help him...but he had to get back to this business and head to the area where he originally set out to go, but left money with the innkeeper for the injured man's room for a few days worth, including food...and he told the innkeeper to please take care of him and if the money he left was not enough because the man needed longer to get healed, he would return by the inn on his way home from his business and pay the innkeeper what was owed him and to see how the man was doing.
Christ then asked his apostles, who they thought was truly following God's Law? And they answered correctly, the Samaritan man...
Christ pointed out that NOTHING, (no law 'of not working on the Sabbath' as example) would ever out trump the caring for any human life injured or sick or in emergency need...
Often, Christ pointed out that their supposed religious...the Levite, the Priests, the Sadducee, etc were hypocrites and totally misunderstood or twisted God's Laws for their own purposes....
So, if we take this parable and others that Christ gave regarding following the Laws of the Sabbath which were the Laws of the Land to them...(He was criticized by the Religious Jews for healing a man on the Sabbath and set them straight on such, on another occasion)
and how Christ taught that those Laws were meant to be broken if a human was in need or you had a chance to do a good deed for a human in need or the plain fact that saving another person's life and feeding another person with the fruit in your field if they are hungry or starving and even without them asking....was what God wanted you to do...
then to me the man starving and feeding himself by taking fruit from your field and eating it as the example, would also ethicallt cover the man taking fruit from your grocery stand and eating it, without the ability to pay, and should not be considered a thief and should not be charged with a crime....
I know that is hard for us to accept...but if HUMANS really do come first, and their well being and survival comes first, above all other Laws of the land in the Bible as lessons to us...such as the Good Samaritan and the one of the hungry guy in the field...then I too see this as ethical....
Oh, and on the story about the man starving and eating the fruit of a farmer...he was not considered a thief or stealing anything AS LONG AS he did not leave the farmer's field with any of the fruit or was to sell off any of the farmer's fruit...ONLY if he ate the fruit and veggies while he was in their field, out of pure hunger, was he not considered a thief....or breaking the Law...but if he took any with him to profit from it, then he was stealing....
Sorry for rambling on...
Care
I interpret it the same way. We are supposed to obey those in charge....if I remember correctly, this is in Romans? But we are also supposed to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, etc... I agree with you about love waxing cold. It's difficult to respect someone who says that they are a "Christian", when they believe it is okay to not be....*thinking*.....charitable.
Charity to me is: not shouting, "Get a job you loser!", as you walk or drive by a begger. "It's their fault they're homeless.". "God helps those who help themselves."......being disrespectful to those you consider as inferior to you. This way of thinking is more in line with LeVeyan philosophy than Christianity.
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
what other book Chris told us about Jesus?....
Centrism'sVoice
Seceded from USMB
- Jul 8, 2009
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Today's Christian right says, "But...but...if we clothe the hungry and feed the naked just because they need help, that's COMMUNISM!"
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