Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?

[WillowTree]

Do you approve of public education and government provided safety nets for the poor?

I do not approve of threats of violence and imprisonment to fund education and welfare.

When education and welfare are done peacefully and voluntarily I'm all for it.

how ya gonna pay for it?

 

[WillowTree]

Because I oppose government borders and taxes.

Do you approve of public education and government provided safety nets for the poor?

not if run by and funded by the federal government. If run and funded by the state gov and its citizens i have no problem with it.

so a fed. gov. should not have borders or taxes but a state should. very confusing situation.

 

[Colin]

There are hundreds of thousands of aliens on visas and green-cards employed ahead of US citizens. I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules. This link is old, but shows about how many non-citizens were working here while unemployment goes to 11%
Office of Immigration Statistics Releases Report for January 2005 - March 15, 2005

And wouldn't you piss and moan if that rule were applied to US citizens taking jobs in other countries around the world.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

IF, and the concern is about what is not by the rules, and what is patently unfair to citizens who should actually be this country's first priority!

well, get the law changed or shut the **** up, especially since you were the one who invoked *the rules*, *****.

REALLY DEL!

And this site is better than the one you listed as it deals with the actual laws and regulations, and the requirements. Again, it is that IF and that some who are "connected or contributing" get a pass.

In all cases it is a legal requirement that for any temporary non-immigrant permissions there must be qualifying circumstances that must be proved in regards to the permissions.

OH, and BTW, when a "temporary" marries a citizen, the status is easily changed, usually does, in the majority of cases, and then it goes from a work permit, to temporary resident to permanent resident alien, a totally different status - which CARD is no longer GREEN, and it has been a few minutes but the last ones I saw were yellow, and only good for 10 years. Still fakeable however!

Also read here!

As far as I know, all those McDonalds, Carls,jr, and lawn mowing jobs don't really require that great a skill, and in fact there are many of those places that do hire the developmentally disabled and the physically disabled, so I would say that even the minimally skilled or those needing special accommodations are considered trainable!

As for the economics, there is this: http://www.doleta.gov/h-1b/pdf/acwia_a98.pdf

Page 5 bottom of the page:

REPORTING ON STUDIES SHOWING ECONOMIC IMPACT OF H-1B NONIMMIGRANT INCREASE.--The Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Commerce, the Secretary of Labor, and any other member of the Cabinet, shall promptly report to the Congress the results of any reliable study that suggests, based on legitimate economic analysis, that the increase effected by section 411(a) of this title in the number of aliens who may be issued visas or otherwise provided nonimmigrant status under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act has had an impact on any national economic indicator, such as the level of inflation or unemployment, that warrants action by the Congress.​

​

In this country we make certain accommodations so that the disabled can be employed. In order to qualify for the programs and accommodations they are required to show various proofs and to meet certain criteria. We accommodate for them as citizens, that they have a right to live up to potential.

Now, I personally think that any American citizen, as part of our country, ought to be seen to first, and generally speaking the laws follow that. That is mutual responsibility toward those who are part of our community. The problem comes in when artificial roadblocks are put in the way of it, usually by cheap labor types, or when there are racial issues, and also gender issues. In the law, citizens are supposed to be given priority. Federal labor laws do specify. All of the permissions are for "exceptions" -that is there must be some special or abnormal condition in order for non-immigrant work visas to be granted.

There are 15+ million people unemployed in the US as of Nov 2009. If there are also 20 million fraudulently documented aliens and half of them hold jobs, then giving those jobs to those currently unemployed would cut the unemployment rate by two thirds, would it not???

There are adjustments in law for temporary worker permits. What needs to be managed is enforcement related to employers who hire workers who are fraudulently documented.

Annual remittances to Foreign countries from US workers. This is money NOT spent here. This is money taken out of the US economy.

I think that the OPs original premises are more about the fraudulently documented and illegally employed workers, mostly low skilled jobs, jobs that anyone could do and that should go to citizens first.



Now, del, you can take that "*****" to whomever it was in your own life that you have issues with and discuss your anger in a place where it is appropriate!

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

It should be up to the employer. And the employer should also be able to hire illegal immigrants.

OK - now we differ. But it's a separate point and I don't want to go OT.

I know it isn't a popular view. I'd rather see employers be required to pay a living wage than see them be required to enforce immigration policy.

So now you want people in this country to be able to pick and choose what laws they will and will not obey?

 

[Mike458877]

If a person is able to legally work in this nation and pays into the tax base, then who gets hired should come down to qualifications, presentation and personal background.

My father came to this nation right after the war. Though his situation was a little bit different because of his service in the war with the US Navy, still it took him several years to earn citizenship. During that time he was paid less than anyone else in the factory, less than the citizens, yet, he produced more and he was always the first one they came to when they needed someone to work over or double shifts, weekends and holidays. Because he did, without hesitation. He spent five years there, two of those years after he became a citizen and was still paid less. When he left he opened his own business and still worked two part-time jobs, until he opened his second business.

His story is not unique. This nation was built by people exactly like him from all over Europe and other parts of the world. Frankly the people coming up from Mexico are no different, except that the amount of illegal's is higher. Trust me, there were plenty of illegal's in the early 1900's through into the 60's.

Anyone entering this nation illegally should be booted out. We should lock down our borders and stop the heavy influx. In turn, anyone coming here legally should be respected and afforded the same hiring and job rights as anyone else, as they work towards citizenship.

We (our family) feel that working towards citizenship should be the deciding factor. If a person enters the country legally, but, is simply looking to put together a bankroll then leave, that we find to be the issue. They should be able to prove that they are actively working towards citizenship, as my father did and as so many did before and after him.

Immigration checked on my father weekly. They did it for two reasons, first to make sure he was working, supporting himself and following the laws. Second to see if he needed any help in getting settled into his new country. No money mind you, but English Classes, American History citizenship classes and so on. After a while the visits changed to monthly and then bi-monthly until he gained his citizenship.

Immigration is an important part of our history and our future, but, it much be done properly and it must be regulated. What we have to offer is opportunity, not handouts.

As far as the American worker, generations removed from their families immigration to this land, well honestly, we lost our drive, we lost our work ethic, we lost our desire. We got greedy and comfortable. For God's sake, you can't even spend your money anyplace anymore and get treated like you mean something, let alone common courtesy! Customer service sucks in this nation. People are rude and could careless if your satisfied.

Yet, we always find ways to push blame onto someone or something else, instead of improving ourselves first. When I was 9 years old if I wanted something my parents had me pumping gas or polishing cars at one business or washing dishes at the other. It was just that simple. Anymore half the kids won't even help their parents mow the lawn!

We got lazy and greedy and turned into a service nation instead of staying a production power. The American worker is guilty and owns part of it and American industry owners are guilty and own part of it.

Sorry to have gotten off track there, but, that one hit too close to home. I have watched factory, after factory close around us. Prior to that, I watched strike after strike take place, even though the workers would come into our business and drink their lunch and cheat on their time cards. You can't eat one sandwich, drink six shots of Jack and four beers and then go and manufacture good car parts or good home appliances! Yet, we now sit on those same bar stools broke, unemployed and bitching about others!

The problem is two fold, stop dead in it's tracks illegal immigration and get our own lazy work force back to reality!

Mike

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

how would they be required to enforce immigration policy? That is the single most stupidest answer you could have come up with.

They already are required to an extent. They must screen their employees and make sure all their papers are in order or they get fined or imprisoned.

so then if this is true how many employers are in prison for "not enforcing immigration" laws?

Flowood Chinese Restaurant Owners Sent to Prison for Hiring Illegal Aliens 2009
First Successful Prosecution of an Employer in Mississippi

Fishing company operator sentenced to jail for hiring illegal immigrants 2008

Golden State Fence Company Execs Facing Jail Time, Fines For Hiring Illegal Aliens To Build Border Fence 1999

That's three in ten years!!!!!!

 

[Toro]

If we've given someone a green card, then they assume the same obligation and should receive the same protections as native born citizens. Illegal immigrants are a whole different story.
I don't think that anyone legally here should have to give up their job just because some else wants it, but I do think that as long as jobs are in such short supply that we should limit immigration for awhile. There is no point in bringing more people in when we can't provide jobs for those already here.

Look up Hb-1 Visas and talk to the employers.

That's interesting. My first time here I came in on a 36 month H1B.

I came on a Trade NAFTA visa and then went to an H1B1.

 

[WillowTree]

They already are required to an extent. They must screen their employees and make sure all their papers are in order or they get fined or imprisoned.

so then if this is true how many employers are in prison for "not enforcing immigration" laws?

Flowood Chinese Restaurant Owners Sent to Prison for Hiring Illegal Aliens 2009
First Successful Prosecution of an Employer in Mississippi

Fishing company operator sentenced to jail for hiring illegal immigrants 2008

Golden State Fence Company Execs Facing Jail Time, Fines For Hiring Illegal Aliens To Build Border Fence 1999

That's three in ten years!!!!!!

awsome! 30 million illegals and we made 3 arrests.. in 10 years, ******* awsome.. Kerry On.

 

[Toro]

There are hundreds of thousands of aliens on visas and green-cards employed ahead of US citizens. I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules. This link is old, but shows about how many non-citizens were working here while unemployment goes to 11%
Office of Immigration Statistics Releases Report for January 2005 - March 15, 2005

Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?


A total big fat NO , NO, NO, NO!


This is absolutely the way it should be: "I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules."-kyzr

​

Completely fucked up view.

I have an idea.

You should move your company back to Britain, fire all the American workers you employ and hire Brits.

After all, you have a green card and are taking some American's job!

 

[tigerbob]

Look up Hb-1 Visas and talk to the employers.

That's interesting. My first time here I came in on a 36 month H1B.

I came on a Trade NAFTA visa and then went to an H1B1.

Did you have to go through a lawyer for the H1B? Mine took months to sort out (loads of paperwork about my career to date to prove I was qualified). I appreciate that there are rules about getting Americans into these kind of jobs, but it held up the company I was going to work with for 6 months and cost them about $40k in legal fees. This was 15 years ago. Maybe it's changed.

 

[del]

IF, and the concern is about what is not by the rules, and what is patently unfair to citizens who should actually be this country's first priority!

well, get the law changed or shut the **** up, especially since you were the one who invoked *the rules*, *****.

REALLY DEL!

And this site is better than the one you listed as it deals with the actual laws and regulations, and the requirements. Again, it is that IF and that some who are "connected or contributing" get a pass.

In all cases it is a legal requirement that for any temporary non-immigrant permissions there must be qualifying circumstances that must be proved in regards to the permissions.

OH, and BTW, when a "temporary" marries a citizen, the status is easily changed, usually does, in the majority of cases, and then it goes from a work permit, to temporary resident to permanent resident alien, a totally different status - which CARD is no longer GREEN, and it has been a few minutes but the last ones I saw were yellow, and only good for 10 years. Still fakeable however!

Also read here!

As far as I know, all those McDonalds, Carls,jr, and lawn mowing jobs don't really require that great a skill, and in fact there are many of those places that do hire the developmentally disabled and the physically disabled, so I would say that even the minimally skilled or those needing special accommodations are considered trainable!

As for the economics, there is this: http://www.doleta.gov/h-1b/pdf/acwia_a98.pdf

Page 5 bottom of the page:

REPORTING ON STUDIES SHOWING ECONOMIC IMPACT OF H-1B NONIMMIGRANT INCREASE.--The Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, the Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Commerce, the Secretary of Labor, and any other member of the Cabinet, shall promptly report to the Congress the results of any reliable study that suggests, based on legitimate economic analysis, that the increase effected by section 411(a) of this title in the number of aliens who may be issued visas or otherwise provided nonimmigrant status under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act has had an impact on any national economic indicator, such as the level of inflation or unemployment, that warrants action by the Congress.​

​

In this country we make certain accommodations so that the disabled can be employed. In order to qualify for the programs and accommodations they are required to show various proofs and to meet certain criteria. We accommodate for them as citizens, that they have a right to live up to potential.

Now, I personally think that any American citizen, as part of our country, ought to be seen to first, and generally speaking the laws follow that. That is mutual responsibility toward those who are part of our community. The problem comes in when artificial roadblocks are put in the way of it, usually by cheap labor types, or when there are racial issues, and also gender issues. In the law, citizens are supposed to be given priority. Federal labor laws do specify. All of the permissions are for "exceptions" -that is there must be some special or abnormal condition in order for non-immigrant work visas to be granted.

There are 15+ million people unemployed in the US as of Nov 2009. If there are also 20 million fraudulently documented aliens and half of them hold jobs, then giving those jobs to those currently unemployed would cut the unemployment rate by two thirds, would it not???

There are adjustments in law for temporary worker permits. What needs to be managed is enforcement related to employers who hire workers who are fraudulently documented.

Annual remittances to Foreign countries from US workers. This is money NOT spent here. This is money taken out of the US economy.

I think that the OPs original premises are more about the fraudulently documented and illegally employed workers, mostly low skilled jobs, jobs that anyone could do and that should go to citizens first.



Now, del, you can take that "*****" to whomever it was in your own life that you have issues with and discuss your anger in a place where it is appropriate!

and you, my love, can blow it out of your ass.

as the title of the thread implies to all but the terminally inbred, the subject is *greencard* vs. citizen.

try to keep up, cracker, otay?

 

[Toro]

Completely fucked up view.

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

and for the apparently slow

United States Immigration: Green Card, Visas and U.S. Citizenship

Most Americans don't realize what a ***** it is to a green card. You have to jump through so many hoops, spend a ton of dough and wait forever for it to happen.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

so then if this is true how many employers are in prison for "not enforcing immigration" laws?

Flowood Chinese Restaurant Owners Sent to Prison for Hiring Illegal Aliens 2009
First Successful Prosecution of an Employer in Mississippi

Fishing company operator sentenced to jail for hiring illegal immigrants 2008

Golden State Fence Company Execs Facing Jail Time, Fines For Hiring Illegal Aliens To Build Border Fence 1999

That's three in ten years!!!!!!

awsome! 30 million illegals and we made 3 arrests.. in 10 years, ******* awsome.. Kerry On.

Not Kerry, Clinton-Bush

 

[tigerbob]

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

and for the apparently slow

United States Immigration: Green Card, Visas and U.S. Citizenship

Most Americans don't realize what a ***** it is to a green card. You have to jump through so many hoops, spend a ton of dough and wait forever for it to happen.

My favorite was being required to be tested for HIV and TB.

 

[Mike458877]

This checking papers deal is not as cut and dry as we might think. It should be, but, it isn't.

Further, sadly many small business owners actually do try to hire responsibly and flub up. Then others, of course large and small, play the game trying to take advantage of the situation.

As I can't disagree with business owners being more responsible, we also need better regulation from the government in this area and we need one simple easy to confirm way to weed them out. I have seen some really good forged papers out there.

We are a very small family owned company and we don't employ many, not anymore, however, we hire anyone who is qualified according to our requirements and over the past five years I had two illegal's sneak by with some really good papers. I caught on to it through conversation down the road. I fired them and reported them, nothing happened and they are most likely working down the road someplace.

Not long ago my MIL was hit and her truck totaled by a illegal. No license, no insurance and no papers. He paid his fines and left! ....... Amazing!

The problem is in Washington, not with the people trying to get in. Hell you can't blame them, wouldn't we also want to get in also? ..........

IMO, The states need to be able to handle these issues and deport directly from the state level, with no federal involvement.

Mike

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

There are hundreds of thousands of aliens on visas and green-cards employed ahead of US citizens. I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules. This link is old, but shows about how many non-citizens were working here while unemployment goes to 11%
Office of Immigration Statistics Releases Report for January 2005 - March 15, 2005

And wouldn't you piss and moan if that rule were applied to US citizens taking jobs in other countries around the world.

Actually it is the rule in most places....

BTW do you know what the law is in Mexico, and what income a person has to have in order to apply for permanent residence?

$18,000 for a retiree and spouse... Non-working.

If you want to open a business there, minimum investment is about $1million US....

Mexico Mexican Visas Immigration FMT FM2 FM3 Visa


Are you aware of how Mexico treats illegals from Central and South America crossing into Mexico to try to get work, or to try to get here?

As for Citizenship in Mexico:
No Surrender of Citizenship

You do not have to surrender your natural citizenship to be granted full resident status in Mexico, nor to become a naturalized Mexican. Full resident status or naturalization entitles you to all rights and benefits of a Mexican National (live, work, claim state benefits and to pay taxes) but you cannot vote in Mexican elections.

 

[Toro]

That's interesting. My first time here I came in on a 36 month H1B.

I came on a Trade NAFTA visa and then went to an H1B1.

Did you have to go through a lawyer for the H1B? Mine took months to sort out (loads of paperwork about my career to date to prove I was qualified). I appreciate that there are rules about getting Americans into these kind of jobs, but it held up the company I was going to work with for 6 months and cost them about $40k in legal fees. This was 15 years ago. Maybe it's changed.

I got my first H over 10 years ago. There was some paperwork, but maybe I don't think its a lot because my Green Card was a mountain of paper!

You're lucky your company paid. I shelled out ~$30k for legal fees over the years.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

and for the apparently slow

United States Immigration: Green Card, Visas and U.S. Citizenship

Most Americans don't realize what a ***** it is to a green card. You have to jump through so many hoops, spend a ton of dough and wait forever for it to happen.

My favorite was being required to be tested for HIV and TB.

Some applying for the PR status, when married to a US citizen, get to answer very personal questions and have their sheets checked!

 

[tigerbob]

Most Americans don't realize what a ***** it is to a green card. You have to jump through so many hoops, spend a ton of dough and wait forever for it to happen.

My favorite was being required to be tested for HIV and TB.

Some applying for the PR status, when married to a US citizen, get to answer very personal questions and have their sheets checked!

Have their sheets checked for what?