Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?

[WillowTree]

I am a blue collar Joe, I have many friends who could use good jobs, a good job that pays relatively well and has good benefits here in NYC is doorman/porter yet you go to a building on Park avenue and these type of jobs are pretty much all taken by immigrants, these jobs do not require special skills that American workers do not have, and in a country as large as this one you can find someone with the skills necessary for the more technical jobs or you can train a citizen to do such a job, with so many Americans out of work we should take care of our own first.

the same people who call you racist when you complain about illegals sucking up the jobs the unemployed Americans can't get are the same fuckers who will call you Un American if you buy products made overseas.. go figure

The people I mention are here legally and I dont blame anybody for taking a job they can get, I blame the powers that be that do the hiring, as far as illegals go make it difficult for employers to hire them(fines, criminal charges) and that problem will lessen,I dont blame illegals coming here to escape poverty, if I had to feed my family I would cross the border too if someone was willing to hire me.

both actions, giving illegals jobs, and sending jobs overseas,, same results, Americans without jobs.

 

[noose4]

I am a blue collar Joe, I have many friends who could use good jobs, a good job that pays relatively well and has good benefits here in NYC is doorman/porter yet you go to a building on Park avenue and these type of jobs are pretty much all taken by immigrants, these jobs do not require special skills that American workers do not have, and in a country as large as this one you can find someone with the skills necessary for the more technical jobs or you can train a citizen to do such a job, with so many Americans out of work we should take care of our own first.

they are americans if they're here legally. how many of those immigrants work two jobs to make a life for their families here? how many of them have earned their citizenship? how many of them are puerto rican and are, essentially, citizens?

you think because someone has an accent they should come after you?

i live in nyc, too... and my husband spent a lot of time looking for a good job after he had to leave his old one because he got allergic to what he was working with. and where i live, i'm surrounded by russian immigrants... i go a few miles away and it's indian, pakistani, israeli, etc... all with stores next to each other. instead of feeling threatened by it, i marvel at it.

i understand what you're saying... but either way we "take care of" everyone who resides here. if people are here legally, working their butts off and paying taxes, they should get jobs their qualified for.

and FWIW, i don't know what the racial/ethnic composition of 32B-J is.

32B-J has mostly Eastern Europeans and Hispanics, generally a buildings workforces ethnicity will reflect the ethnicity of the buildings super who does the hiring, in these instances being American born is a handicap regarding getting a job.

 

[WillowTree]

I am a blue collar Joe, I have many friends who could use good jobs, a good job that pays relatively well and has good benefits here in NYC is doorman/porter yet you go to a building on Park avenue and these type of jobs are pretty much all taken by immigrants, these jobs do not require special skills that American workers do not have, and in a country as large as this one you can find someone with the skills necessary for the more technical jobs or you can train a citizen to do such a job, with so many Americans out of work we should take care of our own first.

the same people who call you racist when you complain about illegals sucking up the jobs the unemployed Americans can't get are the same fuckers who will call you Un American if you buy products made overseas.. go figure

He's talking about legal, not illegal immigrants.

I'm strictly talking about illegals, and the democrats desperate attempts to keep employers from identifying them.

 

[WillowTree]

If you hire an alien, you will most likely get a hard worker who shows up every day ready to work.

If you hire an american, especially a minority, you'll basically get a lazy slob with an attitude who shows up late half the time.

I just got a neg rep from WillowTree because of my post above.

Obviously she has never had to be a supervisor over american workers; especially minority (and I use the term loosely) "workers"

They just want to collect a check. They ***** and moan about everything. Do the least amount of work that they can get away with. And are always looking for a way to sue the company over anything. Showing up on time is seen by them to be an inconvenience and calling in sick is mandatory.

I think it's probably the rather harsh generalization that all Americans are lazy slobs that she objects to.

yep,, and he's rather pointedly racist too.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

There are hundreds of thousands of aliens on visas and green-cards employed ahead of US citizens. I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules. This link is old, but shows about how many non-citizens were working here while unemployment goes to 11%
Office of Immigration Statistics Releases Report for January 2005 - March 15, 2005

Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?


A total big fat NO , NO, NO, NO!


This is absolutely the way it should be: "I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules."-kyzr

​

 

[tigerbob]

There are hundreds of thousands of aliens on visas and green-cards employed ahead of US citizens. I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules. This link is old, but shows about how many non-citizens were working here while unemployment goes to 11%
Office of Immigration Statistics Releases Report for January 2005 - March 15, 2005

Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?


A total big fat NO , NO, NO, NO!


This is absolutely the way it should be: "I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules."-kyzr

​

Completely fucked up view.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

I say no. Jobs are not a public welfare controlled by the government, yet. This would be a serious infringement on an employer's rights where they aren't even allowed to determine who their employees will be.

You're not considering the tax base. Aliens don't pay the same taxes as citizens. The government needs to pay down the deficit. Employers need to hire qualified citizens first.

Can you tell me what taxes you pay (as a U.S. Citizen, I presume) that I (a green card holder) do not?

You hold a green card, but what percentage of your income do you send outside the US of A to support a foreign economy? Do you also get public benefits as low income while owning property, etc., in a foreign country? Are you part owner of an income producing and profitable business in a foreign country while receiving public benefits for US citizen children?

As for taxes, do you claim fifteen relatives whose support you are responsible for on your withholding (W-4) form? Do you claim dependency of non-existent children with the use of faked birth certificates from a foreign country?

It isn't just a simple issue of you paying taxes on what you make, and where you may not do any of those things that I listed, I personally know of situations where that happens and has happened.

 

[tigerbob]

You're not considering the tax base. Aliens don't pay the same taxes as citizens. The government needs to pay down the deficit. Employers need to hire qualified citizens first.

Can you tell me what taxes you pay (as a U.S. Citizen, I presume) that I (a green card holder) do not?

You hold a green card, but what percentage of your income do you send outside the US of A to support a foreign economy? Do you also get public benefits as low income while owning property, etc., in a foreign country? Are you part owner of an income producing and profitable business in a foreign country while receiving public benefits for US citizen children?

As for taxes, do you claim fifteen relatives whose support you are responsible for on your withholding (W-4) form? Do you claim dependency of non-existent children with the use of faked birth certificates from a foreign country?

It isn't just a simple issue of you paying taxes on what you make, and where you may not do any of those things that I listed, I personally know of situations where that happens and has happened.

I'll answer those one by one if I may.

You hold a green card, but what percentage of your income do you send outside the US of A to support a foreign economy?
A: None whatsoever. Not a penny.

Do you also get public benefits as low income while owning property, etc., in a foreign country?
A: I don't get a penny in benefits, either here or in Britain, or anywhere else for that matter.

Are you part owner of an income producing and profitable business in a foreign country while receiving public benefits for US citizen children?
A: I own nothing outside America. And like I said, I don't receive benefits. Any.

As for taxes, do you claim fifteen relatives whose support you are responsible for on your withholding (W-4) form? Do you claim dependency of non-existent children with the use of faked birth certificates from a foreign country?
A. Now you're just being silly. I have 2 children, both of whom acquired US Citizenship at birth. They both live with me, in my house, which I own jointly with my U.S. Citizen wife.


It isn't just a simple issue of you paying taxes on what you make, and where you may not do any of those things that I listed, I personally know of situations where that happens and has happened.
Oh, so now I've answered you say it's not about that after all? It's about your anecdotal evidence. How ******* convenient.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

There are hundreds of thousands of aliens on visas and green-cards employed ahead of US citizens. I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules. This link is old, but shows about how many non-citizens were working here while unemployment goes to 11%
Office of Immigration Statistics Releases Report for January 2005 - March 15, 2005

Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?


A total big fat NO , NO, NO, NO!


This is absolutely the way it should be: "I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules."-kyzr

​

Completely fucked up view.

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Can you tell me what taxes you pay (as a U.S. Citizen, I presume) that I (a green card holder) do not?

You hold a green card, but what percentage of your income do you send outside the US of A to support a foreign economy? Do you also get public benefits as low income while owning property, etc., in a foreign country? Are you part owner of an income producing and profitable business in a foreign country while receiving public benefits for US citizen children?

As for taxes, do you claim fifteen relatives whose support you are responsible for on your withholding (W-4) form? Do you claim dependency of non-existent children with the use of faked birth certificates from a foreign country?

It isn't just a simple issue of you paying taxes on what you make, and where you may not do any of those things that I listed, I personally know of situations where that happens and has happened.

I'll answer those one by one if I may.

You hold a green card, but what percentage of your income do you send outside the US of A to support a foreign economy?
A: None whatsoever. Not a penny.

Do you also get public benefits as low income while owning property, etc., in a foreign country?
A: I don't get a penny in benefits, either here or in Britain, or anywhere else for that matter.

Are you part owner of an income producing and profitable business in a foreign country while receiving public benefits for US citizen children?
A: I own nothing outside America. And like I said, I don't receive benefits. Any.

As for taxes, do you claim fifteen relatives whose support you are responsible for on your withholding (W-4) form? Do you claim dependency of non-existent children with the use of faked birth certificates from a foreign country?
A. Now you're just being silly. I have 2 children, both of whom acquired US Citizenship at birth. They both live with me, in my house, which I own jointly with my U.S. Citizen wife.


It isn't just a simple issue of you paying taxes on what you make, and where you may not do any of those things that I listed, I personally know of situations where that happens and has happened.
Oh, so now I've answered you say it's not about that after all? It's about your anecdotal evidence. How ******* convenient.

No, tigerbob, I am talking about a cultural pattern of behavior among a certain group of people, and where you have not done all these things, and are doing everything right, like you are supposed to, there is a large community within the United States that does not. They are the problem. This is mainly an issue of unskilled labor, and a certain non-english speaking group who come from areas where corruption, double dealing, and so on are the norm.

For every one of those questions I asked I can give an example, factual, of exactly the behavior described.

Just because it is anecdotal doesn't mean it isn't real. Having lived all over California, and because I am fully bi-lingual with Spanish as my second language, please believe me, I know!

Now, for the rest, i will say this to you: I would personally like to see you opt for citizenship here, and I think our laws now accept that you can be a dual national in the UK. Your one vote, why not? You work, pay taxes, do all the right things and seem to follow a certain decent ethical code. I would think you are very welcome, especially since you seem to be very permanent here. Nothing says you cannot vist "over there" whenever you want! Oh, and it isn't about "white" either, as educated and ethical come in all types/races/ethnicities.... It is education and point of view that matters. (And BTW, I am not much at all on the total shits some Americans are!)

 

[del]

Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?


A total big fat NO , NO, NO, NO!


This is absolutely the way it should be: "I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules."-kyzr

​

Completely fucked up view.

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

and for the apparently slow

United States Immigration: Green Card, Visas and U.S. Citizenship

 

[tigerbob]

Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?


A total big fat NO , NO, NO, NO!


This is absolutely the way it should be: "I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules."-kyzr

​

Completely fucked up view.

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

Now you're tapdancing and you know it. The point that you agreed with earlier simply said "aliens" (i.e. aliens in general), so your introduction of H1B, while correct in terms of its rather narrow application, has no bearing here and certainly not the rather wider Federal Law meaning you are trying to imply.

As far as unskilled laborers, no again. If someone it is the country legally, pays his or her taxes and abides by the law you can have no valid reason to deny them employment just because there may happen to be a similarly qualified U.S. citizen.

And I already answered your other questions, even though you ended that post by effectively saying that, whatever answers I give, your own "experience" is still more important. Well why ******* ask then?

 

[del]

Completely fucked up view.

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

Now you're tapdancing and you know it. The point that you agreed with earlier simply said "aliens" (i.e. aliens in general), so your introduction of H1B, while correct in terms of its rather narrow application, has no bearing here and certainly not the rather wider Federal Law meaning you are trying to imply.

As far as unskilled laborers, no again. If someone it is the country legally, pays his or her taxes and abides by the law you can have no valid reason to deny them employment just because there may happen to be a similarly qualified U.S. citizen.

And I already answered your other questions, even though you ended that post by effectively saying that, whatever answers I give, your own "experience" is still more important. Well why ******* ask then?

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

Now you're tapdancing and you know it. The point that you agreed with earlier simply said "aliens" (i.e. aliens in general), so your introduction of H1B, while correct in terms of its rather narrow application, has no bearing here and certainly not the rather wider Federal Law meaning you are trying to imply.

As far as unskilled laborers, no again. If someone it is the country legally, pays his or her taxes and abides by the law you can have no valid reason to deny them employment just because there may happen to be a similarly qualified U.S. citizen.

And I already answered your other questions, even though you ended that post by effectively saying that, whatever answers I give, your own "experience" is still more important. Well why ******* ask then?

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

IF, and the concern is about what is not by the rules, and what is patently unfair to citizens who should actually be this country's first priority!

 

[tigerbob]

You hold a green card, but what percentage of your income do you send outside the US of A to support a foreign economy? Do you also get public benefits as low income while owning property, etc., in a foreign country? Are you part owner of an income producing and profitable business in a foreign country while receiving public benefits for US citizen children?

As for taxes, do you claim fifteen relatives whose support you are responsible for on your withholding (W-4) form? Do you claim dependency of non-existent children with the use of faked birth certificates from a foreign country?

It isn't just a simple issue of you paying taxes on what you make, and where you may not do any of those things that I listed, I personally know of situations where that happens and has happened.

I'll answer those one by one if I may.

You hold a green card, but what percentage of your income do you send outside the US of A to support a foreign economy?
A: None whatsoever. Not a penny.

Do you also get public benefits as low income while owning property, etc., in a foreign country?
A: I don't get a penny in benefits, either here or in Britain, or anywhere else for that matter.

Are you part owner of an income producing and profitable business in a foreign country while receiving public benefits for US citizen children?
A: I own nothing outside America. And like I said, I don't receive benefits. Any.

As for taxes, do you claim fifteen relatives whose support you are responsible for on your withholding (W-4) form? Do you claim dependency of non-existent children with the use of faked birth certificates from a foreign country?
A. Now you're just being silly. I have 2 children, both of whom acquired US Citizenship at birth. They both live with me, in my house, which I own jointly with my U.S. Citizen wife.


It isn't just a simple issue of you paying taxes on what you make, and where you may not do any of those things that I listed, I personally know of situations where that happens and has happened.
Oh, so now I've answered you say it's not about that after all? It's about your anecdotal evidence. How ******* convenient.

No, tigerbob, I am talking about a cultural pattern of behavior among a certain group of people, and where you have not done all these things, and are doing everything right, like you are supposed to, there is a large community within the United States that does not. They are the problem. This is mainly an issue of unskilled labor, and a certain non-english speaking group who come from areas where corruption, double dealing, and so on are the norm.

For every one of those questions I asked I can give an example, factual, of exactly the behavior described.

Just because it is anecdotal doesn't mean it isn't real. Having lived all over California, and because I am fully bi-lingual with Spanish as my second language, please believe me, I know!

Now, for the rest, i will say this to you: I would personally like to see you opt for citizenship here, and I think our laws now accept that you can be a dual national in the UK. Your one vote, why not? You work, pay taxes, do all the right things and seem to follow a certain decent ethical code. I would think you are very welcome, especially since you seem to be very permanent here. Nothing says you cannot vist "over there" whenever you want! Oh, and it isn't about "white" either, as educated and ethical come in all types/races/ethnicities.... It is education and point of view that matters. (And BTW, I am not much at all on the total shits some Americans are!)

Nope. You can't opt to become a joint US / UK Citizen. I am still English and will always be. It may be that my feelings on this matter will change in 10 years, or 20. But if I had asked my wife to become a Brit during the 10 years we lived in England, she would have said "No way, I'm American and I always will be". She knows I love America, but she would never suggest that I should become a U.S. Citizen.

The price I pay for not taking U.S. Citizenship is that I am not allowed to vote. Being disenfranchised bugs me, but it's my choice and I have to live with it. You should too.

 

[WillowTree]

Actually that is a reflection of Federal Law, as an Alien is not supposed to be hired (H1b) for a job for which a qualified citizen is available. Many employers do lie, say they have advertised, and so on. Due diligence is not exercised, nor is it enforced for employers.

As far as "unskilled" jobs are concerned, it should always be citizens first, as goodness knows we have sufficient numers of them!

Please read my other post to you( answering you) and think about the questions there.

Now you're tapdancing and you know it. The point that you agreed with earlier simply said "aliens" (i.e. aliens in general), so your introduction of H1B, while correct in terms of its rather narrow application, has no bearing here and certainly not the rather wider Federal Law meaning you are trying to imply.

As far as unskilled laborers, no again. If someone it is the country legally, pays his or her taxes and abides by the law you can have no valid reason to deny them employment just because there may happen to be a similarly qualified U.S. citizen.

And I already answered your other questions, even though you ended that post by effectively saying that, whatever answers I give, your own "experience" is still more important. Well why ******* ask then?

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

he shouldn't, he probably pays his taxes more readily than the elected democwats we see.

 

[del]

Now you're tapdancing and you know it. The point that you agreed with earlier simply said "aliens" (i.e. aliens in general), so your introduction of H1B, while correct in terms of its rather narrow application, has no bearing here and certainly not the rather wider Federal Law meaning you are trying to imply.

As far as unskilled laborers, no again. If someone it is the country legally, pays his or her taxes and abides by the law you can have no valid reason to deny them employment just because there may happen to be a similarly qualified U.S. citizen.

And I already answered your other questions, even though you ended that post by effectively saying that, whatever answers I give, your own "experience" is still more important. Well why ******* ask then?

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

IF, and the concern is about what is not by the rules, and what is patently unfair to citizens who should actually be this country's first priority!

well, get the law changed or shut the **** up, especially since you were the one who invoked *the rules*, *****.

 

[tigerbob]

Now you're tapdancing and you know it. The point that you agreed with earlier simply said "aliens" (i.e. aliens in general), so your introduction of H1B, while correct in terms of its rather narrow application, has no bearing here and certainly not the rather wider Federal Law meaning you are trying to imply.

As far as unskilled laborers, no again. If someone it is the country legally, pays his or her taxes and abides by the law you can have no valid reason to deny them employment just because there may happen to be a similarly qualified U.S. citizen.

And I already answered your other questions, even though you ended that post by effectively saying that, whatever answers I give, your own "experience" is still more important. Well why ******* ask then?

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

IF, and the concern is about what is not by the rules, and what is patently unfair to citizens who should actually be this country's first priority!

Hang on. It's you that is questioning "the rules". The rules (i.e. the law of the land) are that if you're here legally yada yada yada you should not suffer from employment discrimination of any kind. You are arguing that those rules should be changed and that even people who are here legally should get in line behind Americans.

 

[tigerbob]

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

IF, and the concern is about what is not by the rules, and what is patently unfair to citizens who should actually be this country's first priority!

well, get the law changed or shut the **** up, especially since you were the one who invoked *the rules*, *****.

Ya beat me to it.

Bugger....

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to del again.

 

[tigerbob]

Now you're tapdancing and you know it. The point that you agreed with earlier simply said "aliens" (i.e. aliens in general), so your introduction of H1B, while correct in terms of its rather narrow application, has no bearing here and certainly not the rather wider Federal Law meaning you are trying to imply.

As far as unskilled laborers, no again. If someone it is the country legally, pays his or her taxes and abides by the law you can have no valid reason to deny them employment just because there may happen to be a similarly qualified U.S. citizen.

And I already answered your other questions, even though you ended that post by effectively saying that, whatever answers I give, your own "experience" is still more important. Well why ******* ask then?

why, indeed?

if you're playing by the rules, why should you be penalized for doing so?

he shouldn't, he probably pays his taxes more readily than the elected democwats we see.

Does "readily" mean "happily" or "on time"? My answer will be different in each case.