Should Green-Cards be hired before citizens?

[Zona]

Legal immigrants welcome to the USA. Hope you are very successful and encourage your family and friends to legally join you.

Illegal immigrants need to be air dropped in Somalia.

Then you would be commiting a crime, encouraging illegals to illegally go to Somalia just aint right.

 

[saveliberty]

Legal immigrants welcome to the USA. Hope you are very successful and encourage your family and friends to legally join you.

Illegal immigrants need to be air dropped in Somalia.

Then you would be commiting a crime, encouraging illegals to illegally go to Somalia just aint right.

No laws in Somalia from what I can see. Just trying to slow the border crossings. An ocean works pretty well.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

And if they get a t.i.n, or a fake social, they are paying into the system.

You're probably one of those idiots that want everyone to have a national id so you can punish everyone, not just the illegals. Well, IMO, you're an unAmerican twit...but that must just be because I think only an unAmerican twit would neg rep someone for their opinion.

So, **** off, *****.

Stop promoting a situation about which you obviously know nothing! YOU obviously have no clue what is done to fraudulently documented workers.

Educate yourself on the issue!

Now you're crying about abusing undocumented workers...you're a ******* moron and a hypocrite.

Legal workers have protections in law. The reasons some want to maintain the current laissez-faire system in re: immigrations status is that they are a bunch of cheap labor thieving sons of whores who are ripping off those who work within the system as well as the workers!

If you are one of those cheap labor types, then best you keep it small enough so it is only your immediate family and close relatives working for you, as I believe there are laws exempting family members from fair labor laws.... then you can work them and abuse them all you want....

Employers who work fraudulently documented people knowingly very often do not pay in the SS, or the taxes, can lay off and fire and workers have no unemployment benefits,are not protected as they should be, these employers often do not follow procedures for safety, if there is housing, as in migrant labor, the pathetic excuses for housing are often substandard, Employers are free to threaten, because the people are vulnerable.

As for being "unAmerican," I think that those who would have workers as virtual slaves are unAmerican.... Sounds awfully like that is what you are for. I think those who feel it is just fine to rip workers off are unAmerican. Employers are NOT free to do what they damned well please, and those who will not abide by labor laws need to keep it a one wo/man show, do their own job, mind their own business, and leave ALL others out of it.

So once again, NO fraudulently documented person should be hired, EVER, and employers who won't follow procedures to legally hire workers do not deserve any consideration at all, they need to get off their lazy asses and do what is right.

Then there is the biblical admonishment Malachi 3:5 : "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.

In fact the bible has many passages about defrauding laborers, stealing wages from workers, being unfair to workers....

 

[rdean]

There are hundreds of thousands of aliens on visas and green-cards employed ahead of US citizens. I want to see a clearing house where a qualified citizen can "bump" an alien for a job in his area and field. Similar to union seniority rules. This link is old, but shows about how many non-citizens were working here while unemployment goes to 11%
Office of Immigration Statistics Releases Report for January 2005 - March 15, 2005

Field? You got that right. There are so many Republicans lining up to pick strawberries for 5 bucks an hour. Of course, they don't care about health care. We already know that. The only problem is they are so fat they eat more than they pick. Pass the cream? Whip it good, whip it "real" good.

Oh good. I was wondering when you'd arrive to give us the benefit of your invaluable opinion.

"Heh! Heh-heh! Hey Beavis, Did you hear that? Field. Heh-heh! Wonder what they're growing in that 'field'. Heh-heh. Heh."

You're welcome. I'm glad I didn't disappoint.

It's ironic that it's Republican policies that reduced this economy so that Republicans are fighting over the last bone. Jobs no one has ever wanted in the past. Pulling weeds. Picking strawberries. Jobs with no benefits that pay 5 bucks an hour "under the table" - if you're lucky. Good job Brownie.

 

[Ravi]

Stop promoting a situation about which you obviously know nothing! YOU obviously have no clue what is done to fraudulently documented workers.

Educate yourself on the issue!

Now you're crying about abusing undocumented workers...you're a ******* moron and a hypocrite.

Legal workers have protections in law. The reasons some want to maintain the current laissez-faire system in re: immigrations status is that they are a bunch of cheap labor thieving sons of whores who are ripping off those who work within the system as well as the workers!

If you are one of those cheap labor types, then best you keep it small enough so it is only your immediate family and close relatives working for you, as I believe there are laws exempting family members from fair labor laws.... then you can work them and abuse them all you want....

Employers who work fraudulently documented people knowingly very often do not pay in the SS, or the taxes, can lay off and fire and workers have no unemployment benefits,are not protected as they should be, these employers often do not follow procedures for safety, if there is housing, as in migrant labor, the pathetic excuses for housing are often substandard, Employers are free to threaten, because the people are vulnerable.

As for being "unAmerican," I think that those who would have workers as virtual slaves are unAmerican.... Sounds awfully like that is what you are for. I think those who feel it is just fine to rip workers off are unAmerican. Employers are NOT free to do what they damned well please, and those who will not abide by labor laws need to keep it a one wo/man show, do their own job, mind their own business, and leave ALL others out of it.

So once again, NO fraudulently documented person should be hired, EVER, and employers who won't follow procedures to legally hire workers do not deserve any consideration at all, they need to get off their lazy asses and do what is right.

Then there is the biblical admonishment Malachi 3:5 : "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.

In fact the bible has many passages about defrauding laborers, stealing wages from workers, being unfair to workers....

It would be harder for employers to oppress anyone if they could hire anyone they pleased...the threat of turning the illegals over to the law would be gone

 

[tigerbob]

Field? You got that right. There are so many Republicans lining up to pick strawberries for 5 bucks an hour. Of course, they don't care about health care. We already know that. The only problem is they are so fat they eat more than they pick. Pass the cream? Whip it good, whip it "real" good.

Oh good. I was wondering when you'd arrive to give us the benefit of your invaluable opinion.

"Heh! Heh-heh! Hey Beavis, Did you hear that? Field. Heh-heh! Wonder what they're growing in that 'field'. Heh-heh. Heh."

You're welcome. I'm glad I didn't disappoint.

It's ironic that it's Republican policies that reduced this economy so that Republicans are fighting over the last bone. Jobs no one has ever wanted in the past. Pulling weeds. Picking strawberries. Jobs with no benefits that pay 5 bucks an hour "under the table" - if you're lucky. Good job Brownie.

For ****'s sake. You're....off....topic!

 

[tigerbob]

Have their sheets checked for what?

Whether they are "really" married.....

Marrying For Love? You'll Have To Prove It- City Limits: News for NYC's Nonprofit, Policy and Activist World

Can you be specific please? Are you saying that the INS / DHS / ICE or whoever has the right to go into the home of a person who is applying for residency and inspect the cleanliness or otherwise of their bedsheets to determine whether they are having sex with the person they say they are married to? If so, 3 issues with that:

1. Are prospective immigrants supposed not to change their linen just in case the immigration guy drops round for a cup of coffee and a quick look at the sheets? If they don't, the assumption will be "Clean sheets? Who the hell do you think you're kidding?"
2. Unless samples of 'soiled sheets' are taken to a lab and checked against the DNA of the applicant and his / her spouse, simply popping round and staring at some sheets isn't going to prove anything about who is screwing whom.
3. The article you posted in support of your post above mentions a lot of things about fraud, paperwork, photos, background checks and interviews, but not once does it mention bedsheets.

So, can you tell me (and provide a link to) where you got the information that the government is checking bedsheets? Or is this another example of your "I live in California, I speak Spanish and I know what I'm talking about" kind of evidence?

Where's that link Contessa?

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Have their sheets checked for what?

Whether they are "really" married.....

Marrying For Love? You'll Have To Prove It- City Limits: News for NYC's Nonprofit, Policy and Activist World

Can you be specific please? Are you saying that the INS / DHS / ICE or whoever has the right to go into the home of a person who is applying for residency and inspect the cleanliness or otherwise of their bedsheets to determine whether they are having sex with the person they say they are married to? If so, 3 issues with that:

1. Are prospective immigrants supposed not to change their linen just in case the immigration guy drops round for a cup of coffee and a quick look at the sheets? If they don't, the assumption will be "Clean sheets? Who the hell do you think you're kidding?"

2. Unless samples of 'soiled sheets' are taken to a lab and checked against the DNA of the applicant and his / her spouse, simply popping round and staring at some sheets isn't going to prove anything about who is screwing whom.

3. The article you posted in support of your post above mentions a lot of things about fraud, paperwork, photos, background checks and interviews, but not once does it mention bedsheets.

So, can you tell me (and provide a link to) where you got the information that the government is checking bedsheets? Or is this another example of your "I live in California, I speak Spanish and I know what I'm talking about" kind of evidence?

The "bedsheets" comment is a little sarastic, but in the case of any "suspicion" the applicants can go through quite a wringer to prove they are legit, if an "inspector" decides they don't "match" and children may be questioned about the parent and step-parent's habits, how they behave around each other, if they sleep in the same bed in the same bedroom, if they are physically affectionate, neighbors may be questioned, and so on... The questioning for the applicants and may be very intrusive if there is any language disparity, racial disparity, religious disparity, education disparity, it can be and sometimes is about private physical characteristics, may include questions about intimate likes and dislikes, and the federal government has just about absolute power. If they choose to check out a home they can!

From the article:

To support your partner's application – for legal permanent resident status, or citizenship if he or she already has that – it is wise to bring shared documentation such as joint bank accounts, leases, utilities bills and health insurance forms. Missing documents are often a red flag for adjudicators and are common grounds for denial. In a closed interview room, the adjudicator will question you and your spouse about particulars of the relationship, such as details of your first date, the appearance of your bedroom, or specifics about photos you have brought as evidence. Friends, family and children may also give statements in support of your relationship.

​

Fraud interview for marriage based green card

Exerpts from "fraud interview"





Bedroom

• What size is your bed (twin, queen, king)?

• Do you have a regular mattress, futon, or waterbed?

• Who sleeps on each side the bed?

• Does either of you read or watch television before going to sleep?

• Do you have lamps next to your bed?

• Have you ever had an argument that resulted in one of you sleeping in another room? Who, and which room?

• What kind of birth control do you use? What brand do you use?

• When was your wife's last menstrual period?

• Do you leave any lights on when you go to sleep at night?

• How many windows are there in your bedroom?

• Where do you keep your toothbrushes?

• Does your spouse use regular toothbrush or an electrical one?

• What kind of toothpaste, soap, and shampoo does each of you use?

• Where do you keep your clothes? Where does your spouse keep his/her clothes?

• What color are your spouse's pajamas?

• What is your favorite position (missionary, doggy, cow girl etc)?

• Where are the bathroom towels kept?

• Where do you keep the dirty clothes?

Some of that is certainly "sheet checking!"

As for my comments about California, that is related to the specific situations leading up to and subsequent to the 1986 Amnesty/legalization, some of the so-called refugee programs related to the Central American civil wars.... and the behavior of the people who came here in those situations, and since. The questions you so graciously answered were also related to that. Just because you have done the right things does not mean that others have!

And I personally am in favor of the "disease" checks that are done, especially that thing with the TB:

Antibiotic resistant tuberculosis in the United Kingdom: 1993 through1999

Rise of drug-resistant tuberculosis in the UK 'is linked to immigration' | Mail Online

Plan to Combat Extensively Drug-Resistant Tuberculosis Recommendations of the Federal Tuberculosis Task Force

HIV

Obama ends 22-year-old travel ban against people with HIV/AIDS, ushering in big changes to immigration law | State Bar of Wisconsin

"Also, HIV-infected immigrants with skills in high demand will be permitted to enter the U.S. to seek employment and contribute as productive members of U.S. society. Admittance may also afford greater opportunity, better health care, and education and training programs than those available in the immigrant’s home country."
​

Got HIV? Lifetime Cost: $618,900 - CBS News

That is absolutely reasonable to know if a person is reasonably healthy, and will be able to care for themself when they get here!

And why should YOU have been an exception on the physical?????

Why should anyone?

There have recently been several issues of illness outbreaks related to migrant labor in the US. How exactly do YOU feel about people with some kind of active infection handling YOUR food? Especially food that may be consumed raw????

 

[WillowTree]

Full Moon!

 

[tigerbob]

Whether they are "really" married.....

Marrying For Love? You'll Have To Prove It- City Limits: News for NYC's Nonprofit, Policy and Activist World

Can you be specific please? Are you saying that the INS / DHS / ICE or whoever has the right to go into the home of a person who is applying for residency and inspect the cleanliness or otherwise of their bedsheets to determine whether they are having sex with the person they say they are married to? If so, 3 issues with that:

1. Are prospective immigrants supposed not to change their linen just in case the immigration guy drops round for a cup of coffee and a quick look at the sheets? If they don't, the assumption will be "Clean sheets? Who the hell do you think you're kidding?"

2. Unless samples of 'soiled sheets' are taken to a lab and checked against the DNA of the applicant and his / her spouse, simply popping round and staring at some sheets isn't going to prove anything about who is screwing whom.

3. The article you posted in support of your post above mentions a lot of things about fraud, paperwork, photos, background checks and interviews, but not once does it mention bedsheets.

So, can you tell me (and provide a link to) where you got the information that the government is checking bedsheets? Or is this another example of your "I live in California, I speak Spanish and I know what I'm talking about" kind of evidence?

The "bedsheets" comment is a little sarastic, but in the case of any "suspicion" the applicants can go through quite a wringer to prove they are legit, if an "inspector" decides they don't "match" and children may be questioned about the parent and step-parent's habits, how they behave around each other, if they sleep in the same bed in the same bedroom, if they are physically affectionate, neighbors may be questioned, and so on... The questioning for the applicants and may be very intrusive if there is any language disparity, racial disparity, religious disparity, education disparity, it can be and sometimes is about private physical characteristics, may include questions about intimate likes and dislikes, and the federal government has just about absolute power. If they choose to check out a home they can!

From the article:

To support your partner's application – for legal permanent resident status, or citizenship if he or she already has that – it is wise to bring shared documentation such as joint bank accounts, leases, utilities bills and health insurance forms. Missing documents are often a red flag for adjudicators and are common grounds for denial. In a closed interview room, the adjudicator will question you and your spouse about particulars of the relationship, such as details of your first date, the appearance of your bedroom, or specifics about photos you have brought as evidence. Friends, family and children may also give statements in support of your relationship.

​

Fraud interview for marriage based green card

Exerpts from "fraud interview"





Bedroom

• What size is your bed (twin, queen, king)?

• Do you have a regular mattress, futon, or waterbed?

• Who sleeps on each side the bed?

• Does either of you read or watch television before going to sleep?

• Do you have lamps next to your bed?

• Have you ever had an argument that resulted in one of you sleeping in another room? Who, and which room?

• What kind of birth control do you use? What brand do you use?

• When was your wife's last menstrual period?

• Do you leave any lights on when you go to sleep at night?

• How many windows are there in your bedroom?

• Where do you keep your toothbrushes?

• Does your spouse use regular toothbrush or an electrical one?

• What kind of toothpaste, soap, and shampoo does each of you use?

• Where do you keep your clothes? Where does your spouse keep his/her clothes?

• What color are your spouse's pajamas?

• What is your favorite position (missionary, doggy, cow girl etc)?

• Where are the bathroom towels kept?

• Where do you keep the dirty clothes?

Some of that is certainly "sheet checking!"

As for my comments about California, that is related to the specific situations leading up to and subsequent to the 1986 Amnesty/legalization, some of the so-called refugee programs related to the Central American civil wars.... and the behavior of the people who came here in those situations, and since. The questions you so graciously answered were also related to that. Just because you have done the right things does not mean that others have!

And I personally am in favor of the "disease" checks that are done, especially that thing with the TB:

Antibiotic resistant tuberculosis in the United Kingdom: 1993 through1999

Rise of drug-resistant tuberculosis in the UK 'is linked to immigration' | Mail Online

Plan to Combat Extensively Drug-Resistant Tuberculosis Recommendations of the Federal Tuberculosis Task Force

HIV

Obama ends 22-year-old travel ban against people with HIV/AIDS, ushering in big changes to immigration law | State Bar of Wisconsin

"Also, HIV-infected immigrants with skills in high demand will be permitted to enter the U.S. to seek employment and contribute as productive members of U.S. society. Admittance may also afford greater opportunity, better health care, and education and training programs than those available in the immigrant’s home country."
​

Got HIV? Lifetime Cost: $618,900 - CBS News

That is absolutely reasonable to know if a person is reasonably healthy, and will be able to care for themself when they get here!

And why should YOU have been an exception on the physical?????

Why should anyone?

There have recently been several issues of illness outbreaks related to migrant labor in the US. How exactly do YOU feel about people with some kind of active infection handling YOUR food? Especially food that may be consumed raw????

Please don't give unqualified sarcastic examples when you're trying to represent your views as factually based.

And I'm familiar with the interview questions, having answered many of them myself. They are not all that intrusive. Bringing along shared documentation should not be that tough for the overwhelming majority of married couples - certainly among the 33% that are currently denied for one reason or another. Doing so means you will probably not have to go through the more detailed and personal interview.

I got slightly pissed off at being told about all the medical tests I would have to pay for, but I accepted the need for them. When did I ever say I should be excused from them? Please get your facts straight. That said, it is somewhat ironic that I was required to be tested because the INS would not accept medical records from the NHS, which system the current administration is largely trying to copy for use in the U.S.

The only thing that really bugged me was that in being forced to have an HIV test I now have to reveal that fact when I apply for medical insurance in the US, and am therefore automatically assumed to be in a high risk group.

Once again however, you're posting links that support your point but fail to show the full picture. For example, the one about drug resistant TB. Viewed in isolation, one might draw the conclusion that TB is rising significantly and out of proportion in the UK and that the US is right to take a firm stance against it. But it's ony half the story. If you look at the WHO report for the same period (and indeed for longer), you would note that drug resistant TB is significantly lower in Western Europe (hint, that's where Britain is) than it is in the US.

http://www.who.int/tb/publications/2008/drs_report4_26feb08.pdf

All of which is unimportant anyway since this is supposed to be a thread about whether it is right to prefer one type of legal US resident (a US Citizen) over another type of legal US resident (a green card holder). I make a shared experience comment to Toro about the hoops applicants have to jump through and you lead us off down a dead end street about health testing, citing what it turns out are sarcastic examples of intrusion of privacy.

Manufactured arguments are nearly always as pointless as they are long-winded, so I'm just gonna leave you to have fun with google.

 

[Polk]

Americans are the hardest working people in the world.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I just don't know how anyone can quantify that.

Number of hours worked per week is one. Number of months off on vacation is another.

That's not really an example of how hard-working they are though. You could spend a ton of time in the office and still not be productive at all.

 

[Polk]

I disagree... completely.

Number of hours spent on the clock has nothing to do with how hard you're working during that time. I know people that show up at 7am and work until 8pm and still manage to not do shit.

They do more than people in other countries.

Again, I don't know how you would go about quantifying that.

GDP per hour worked is probably the best estimate.

 

[Polk]

I wouldnt go so far as bumping a green card holder from a job they already hold but I would say Citizens should get preference over immigrants regarding new hires.

Does that mean you would merely hope that employers give them preference or that you would support legislation forcing preference?

I would support legislation forcing preference to American citizens regarding jobs in the United States with Veterans getting priority.

Why should veterans get a specific preference?

 

[noose4]

Does that mean you would merely hope that employers give them preference or that you would support legislation forcing preference?

I would support legislation forcing preference to American citizens regarding jobs in the United States with Veterans getting priority.

Why should veterans get a specific preference?

They put their asses on the line for this nation, a grateful nation owes them and they should get special preference, that is my opinion, and with some government jobs they do.

 

[Polk]

I would support legislation forcing preference to American citizens regarding jobs in the United States with Veterans getting priority.

Why should veterans get a specific preference?

They put their asses on the line for this nation, a grateful nation owes them and they should get special preference, that is my opinion, and with some government jobs they do.

They get special preference for all government jobs. It's rubbish though to say that because of what their previous job was, they're entitled a living for life.

 

[Polk]

I will give the OP props for sparking a debate that hasn't broken down on the normal left/right lines.

 

[noose4]

Why should veterans get a specific preference?

They put their asses on the line for this nation, a grateful nation owes them and they should get special preference, that is my opinion, and with some government jobs they do.

They get special preference for all government jobs. It's rubbish though to say that because of what their previous job was, they're entitled a living for life.

Preference does not equal a living for life.

 

[Polk]

They put their asses on the line for this nation, a grateful nation owes them and they should get special preference, that is my opinion, and with some government jobs they do.

They get special preference for all government jobs. It's rubbish though to say that because of what their previous job was, they're entitled a living for life.

Preference does not equal a living for life.

The fact of the matter is, there should not be a legal requirement to hire less qualified applicants just because they served in the military. Veterans deserve something for their service, and if you want to talk about increasing funding for the VA and things like that, I'm going to be in your corner. Where I draw the line is the point at which we're saying that veterans should be enjoy a special and superior class of citizenship over their fellow citizens.

 

[noose4]

They get special preference for all government jobs. It's rubbish though to say that because of what their previous job was, they're entitled a living for life.

Preference does not equal a living for life.

The fact of the matter is, there should not be a legal requirement to hire less qualified applicants just because they served in the military. Veterans deserve something for their service, and if you want to talk about increasing funding for the VA and things like that, I'm going to be in your corner. Where I draw the line is the point at which we're saying that veterans should be enjoy a special and superior class of citizenship over their fellow citizens.

Where did I say anything about hiring those that are less qualified? Preference is if 2 equal candidates apply and one is a veteran the veteran gets preference.

 

[Sunni Man]

Where I draw the line is the point at which we're saying that veterans should be enjoy a special and superior class of citizenship over their fellow citizens.

That's because you have never served.