Zone1 Should A Handful Of Billionaires Own More Wealth Than The Bottom 50% Of All Americans?

[Red Front]

imposing a 2% tax on all stock market trades would contribute several trillions of dollars yearly to this plan.

This Wall Street speculation tax, also known as a financial transaction tax, will raise up to $2.4 trillion in revenue over the next decade

DURR

Bad math, worse economics from Sanders, bad reading from you.

Actually great math from the economists who wrote the bill and it's your reading that's deficient. Tax stock trades, and deposit trillions into the public treasury.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The so-called "national debt" is an irrelevant misnomer, that has no bearing on what we can and can't spend. It's not actually a debt in the same sense as a household debt or the debt of a private business enterprise. It's more like a ledger of how much money the government has allocated into the private sector, as opposed to how much money it has taxed or how many dollars are saved in treasury bonds. There's no real "debt", that's just a silly ploy used by the defenders of capitalism to scare people into not allowing the government to spend money on public projects and social programs. They want the private sector to do everything and place as many resources as possible into private hands, hence they whine about a fake national debt. Watch these economists clarify what the "national debt" actually is:

​

MMT pushers are funny.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not enough good spending and investing in America's future and its people.

Tell you what, for every dollar of wasteful government spending you can cut, let's
"invest" 30 cents in America's future and people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Actually great math from the economists who wrote the bill and it's your reading that's deficient. Tax stock trades, and deposit trillions into the public treasury.

Actually great math from the economists who wrote the bill

Great math? Because people don't respond to negative incentives, right? LOL!

Now, about your confusion between "yearly" and "over the next decade"..........

Tax stock trades, and deposit trillions into the public treasury.

Before we destroy the stock market, based on bad math, post all the
previous examples of taxing trades at high levels and show all the money those
taxes "deposited into the public treasury".

You must have dozens of examples. This can't be the first time some stupid commie...
err...brilliant economist thought up this plan.

 

[Red Front]

Actually great math from the economists who wrote the bill

Great math? Because people don't respond to negative incentives, right? LOL!

Now, about your confusion between "yearly" and "over the next decade"..........

Tax stock trades, and deposit trillions into the public treasury.

Before we destroy the stock market, based on bad math, post all the
previous examples of taxing trades at high levels and show all the money those
taxes "deposited into the public treasury".

You must have dozens of examples. This can't be the first time some stupid commie...
err...brilliant economist thought up this plan.

Actually great math from the economists who wrote the bill

Great math? Because people don't respond to negative incentives, right? LOL!

Now, about your confusion between "yearly" and "over the next decade"..........

Tax stock trades, and deposit trillions into the public treasury.

Before we destroy the stock market, based on bad math, post all the
previous examples of taxing trades at high levels and show all the money those
taxes "deposited into the public treasury".

You must have dozens of examples. This can't be the first time some stupid commie...
err...brilliant economist thought up this plan.

That bill is only taxing trades at half a %. We could tax higher than that, and not just trades, but income generated by speculative trading as well. The stock market wouldn't be destroyed if it is taxed, but as I clearly mentioned, we don't really need to tax anyone, including Wall Street to eliminate poverty in America under capitalism. As far as Modern Monetary Theory, that just describes how our monetary system works.

The real solution is communism, which doesn't tax anyone. Communism is the real solution that every capitalist economy will inevitably transition to in the not too distant future, thanks to advanced automation. It doesn't matter how you feel about it, that's the truth, so you might as well become a "commie" now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That bill is only taxing trades at half a %. We could tax higher than that, and not just trades, but income generated by speculative trading as well. The stock market wouldn't be destroyed if it is taxed, but as I clearly mentioned, we don't really need to tax anyone, including Wall Street to eliminate poverty in America under capitalism. As far as Modern Monetary Theory, that just describes how our monetary system works.

The real solution is communism, which doesn't tax anyone. Communism is the real solution that every capitalist economy will inevitably transition to in the not too distant future, thanks to advanced automation. It doesn't matter how you feel about it, that's the truth, so you might as well become a "commie" now.

That bill is only taxing trades at half a %. We could tax higher than that, and not just trades, but income generated by speculative trading as well.

Sander's moronic plan is 0.5%, but your plan is 2%?
Well, that makes sense, you're even more clueless than he is.

The stock market wouldn't be destroyed if it is taxed

Did you find the other examples of your cool idea being tried out?

As far as Modern Monetary Theory, that just describes how our monetary system works.

No, MMT says we can just print the money to waste...err...invest in ourselves.
And we're so smart, inflation will never be an issue.

The real solution is communism, which doesn't tax anyone.

If no one gets money in the first place, no need to tax it. Brilliant!

It doesn't matter how you feel about it, that's the truth, so you might as well become a "commie" now.

No thanks, you guys still have the stench of failure on you.

 

[Red Front]

That bill is only taxing trades at half a %. We could tax higher than that, and not just trades, but income generated by speculative trading as well.

Sander's moronic plan is 0.5%, but your plan is 2%?
Well, that makes sense, you're even more clueless than he is.

The stock market wouldn't be destroyed if it is taxed

Did you find the other examples of your cool idea being tried out?

As far as Modern Monetary Theory, that just describes how our monetary system works.

No, MMT says we can just print the money to waste...err...invest in ourselves.
And we're so smart, inflation will never be an issue.

The real solution is communism, which doesn't tax anyone.

If no one gets money in the first place, no need to tax it. Brilliant!

It doesn't matter how you feel about it, that's the truth, so you might as well become a "commie" now.

No thanks, you guys still have the stench of failure on you.

I'm right and you're wrong, deal with it. Taxing wall street is a great idea because there's plenty of money there. You haven't presented any evidence showing how imposing a tax on speculative trading will collapse the stock market. MMT says nothing about "printing money to waste" that's just your groundless, silly assertion. There's no inflation through the issuing of dollars for the federal government budget when the amount is below the GDP. The nation's productive capacity sets the boundaries of the federal budget. You apparently didn't know that.

As far as communism, yes it's brilliant and the future of high-tech, automated production. In communism, there's no need for markets or money, hence there are no taxes. Production is non-profit, unlike production in America today which relies on profits and markets.

Stench of failure or the sweet fragrance of success, whichever one you wish to attach to communism, is irrelevant to the fact that in the not-too-distant future, advance automation technology will force America and every other Western capitalist-run country to adopt a non-profit system of production i.e. communism. So again, it doesn't matter how you feel about it, if you're alive when the technology takes a considerable % of jobs, you're going to see a dramatic, revolutionary shift in America towards the left, economically, politically and socially. If you're now in your 30s or 40s, you will eventually become a communist before your 70th birthday, out of necessity.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm right and you're wrong, deal with it. Taxing wall street is a great idea because there's plenty of money there. You haven't presented any evidence showing how imposing a tax on speculative trading will collapse the stock market. MMT says nothing about "printing money to waste" that's just your groundless, silly assertion. There's no inflation through the issuing of dollars for the federal government budget when the amount is below the GDP. The nation's productive capacity sets the boundaries of the federal budget. You apparently didn't know that.

As far as communism, yes it's brilliant and the future of high-tech, automated production. In communism, there's no need for markets or money, hence there are no taxes. Production is non-profit, unlike production in America today which relies on profits and markets.

Stench of failure or the sweet fragrance of success, whichever one you wish to attach to communism, is irrelevant to the fact that in the not-too-distant future, advance automation technology will force America and every other Western capitalist-run country to adopt a non-profit system of production i.e. communism. So again, it doesn't matter how you feel about it, if you're alive when the technology takes a considerable % of jobs, you're going to see a dramatic, revolutionary shift in America towards the left, economically, politically and socially. If you're now in your 30s or 40s, you will eventually become a communist before your 70th birthday, out of necessity.

Taxing wall street is a great idea because there's plenty of money there.

You think that "plenty of money" will stay there if you tax every trade at 2%. LOL!

Still no good examples where it worked? None of your favorite socialist paradises?
Come on, post your best working example.

MMT says nothing about "printing money to waste"

I'll back MMT if they print money for tax cuts.

As far as communism, yes it's brilliant......

What's that smell? Oh, yeah, dead communism. And a bunch of dead victims of communism.

 

[Red Front]

Taxing wall street is a great idea because there's plenty of money there.

You think that "plenty of money" will stay there if you tax every trade at 2%. LOL!

Still no good examples where it worked? None of your favorite socialist paradises?
Come on, post your best working example.

MMT says nothing about "printing money to waste"

I'll back MMT if they print money for tax cuts.

As far as communism, yes it's brilliant......

What's that smell? Oh, yeah, dead communism. And a bunch of dead victims of communism.

2% is nothing, but hey believe whatever toots your horn. There's no reason to cut taxes below what it is now, for the US federal government to create more dollars. You obviously don't know how our monetary system works. You can back, not back, support, not give your support, it doesn't matter.

Communism is alive and well, and the future of communist economics, thanks to advanced 21st-century automation. Appealing to death toll arguments doesn't help you, because your beloved capitalism has its own stinking pile of rotting corpses and I can just as easily as you, claim most of those dead people are victims. Yeah both capitalism and communism, have their mountain of dead, so what? Capitalist imperialism is bloody, and class war and revolutionary action are also bloody. Pointing that out doesn't disprove capitalism or communism, so you won't see me resorting to death toll arguments, it's a waste of time. The hard truth is that advanced 21st-century automation technology is going to necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production in America, and there's nothing people like you can do about that. You can take up arms, but you'll lose.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

2% is nothing, but hey believe whatever toots your horn. There's no reason to cut taxes below what it is now, for the US federal government to create more dollars. You obviously don't know how our monetary system works. You can back, not back, support, not give your support, it doesn't matter.

Communism is alive and well, and the future of communist economics, thanks to advanced 21st-century automation. Appealing to death toll arguments doesn't help you, because your beloved capitalism has its own stinking pile of rotting corpses and I can just as easily as you, claim most of those dead people are victims. Yeah both capitalism and communism, have their mountain of dead, so what? Capitalist imperialism is bloody, and class war and revolutionary action are also bloody. Pointing that out doesn't disprove capitalism or communism, so you won't see me resorting to death toll arguments, it's a waste of time. The hard truth is that advanced 21st-century automation technology is going to necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production in America, and there's nothing people like you can do about that. You can take up arms, but you'll lose.

2% is nothing, but hey believe whatever toots your horn.

Try charging it on stock trades and see how much nothing it is.

What about Sweden? They're awesome! They tried it.

In January 1984, Sweden introduced a 0.5% tax on the purchase or sale of an equity security. Hence, a round trip (purchase and sale) transaction resulted in a 1% tax. The tax applied to all equity security trades in Sweden using local brokerage services as well as to stock options. In July 1986, the rate was doubled, and in January 1989, a considerably lower tax of 0.002% on fixed-income securities was introduced for a security with a maturity of 90 days or less.

By 1990, more than 50% of all Swedish trading had moved to London. Foreign investors reacted to the tax by moving their trading offshore while domestic investors reacted by reducing the number of their equity trades.[2] According to Anders Borg who served as finance minister in the Swedish government from 2006 to 2014, "between 90%-99% of traders in bonds, equities and derivatives moved out of Stockholm to London."[3]

As a result, revenues from these taxes were disappointing. For example, revenues from the tax on fixed-income securities were initially expected to amount to 1,500 million Swedish kronor per year. They did not amount to more than 80 million Swedish kronor in any year and the average was closer to 50 million.[4] In addition, as taxable trading volumes fell, so did revenues from capital gains taxes, entirely offsetting revenues from the equity transactions tax that had grown to 4,000 million Swedish kronor by 1988.[5]

Swedish financial transaction tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Holy shit!!!! Do you see those numbers? They expected 1,500 million, they averaged 50 million.
Even using liberal math, you have to admit, that's a huge fucking fail.

Did they learn their lesson?

15 months later, on 15 April 1990, the tax on fixed-income securities was abolished. In January 1991 the rates on the remaining taxes were cut by half and by the end of the year, they were also abolished completely. Once the taxes were eliminated, trading volumes returned and grew substantially in the 1990s.[1]

Looks like they did.

Communism is alive and well,

Yes, North Korea is doing very well.

 

[Red Front]

2% is nothing, but hey believe whatever toots your horn.

Try charging it on stock trades and see how much nothing it is.

What about Sweden? They're awesome! They tried it.

In January 1984, Sweden introduced a 0.5% tax on the purchase or sale of an equity security. Hence, a round trip (purchase and sale) transaction resulted in a 1% tax. The tax applied to all equity security trades in Sweden using local brokerage services as well as to stock options. In July 1986, the rate was doubled, and in January 1989, a considerably lower tax of 0.002% on fixed-income securities was introduced for a security with a maturity of 90 days or less.

By 1990, more than 50% of all Swedish trading had moved to London. Foreign investors reacted to the tax by moving their trading offshore while domestic investors reacted by reducing the number of their equity trades.[2] According to Anders Borg who served as finance minister in the Swedish government from 2006 to 2014, "between 90%-99% of traders in bonds, equities and derivatives moved out of Stockholm to London."[3]

As a result, revenues from these taxes were disappointing. For example, revenues from the tax on fixed-income securities were initially expected to amount to 1,500 million Swedish kronor per year. They did not amount to more than 80 million Swedish kronor in any year and the average was closer to 50 million.[4] In addition, as taxable trading volumes fell, so did revenues from capital gains taxes, entirely offsetting revenues from the equity transactions tax that had grown to 4,000 million Swedish kronor by 1988.[5]

Swedish financial transaction tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Holy shit!!!! Do you see those numbers? They expected 1,500 million, they averaged 50 million.
Even using liberal math, you have to admit, that's a huge fucking fail.

Did they learn their lesson?

15 months later, on 15 April 1990, the tax on fixed-income securities was abolished. In January 1991 the rates on the remaining taxes were cut by half and by the end of the year, they were also abolished completely. Once the taxes were eliminated, trading volumes returned and grew substantially in the 1990s.[1]

Looks like they did.

Communism is alive and well,

Yes, North Korea is doing very well.

Sweden isn't America or Wall Street. You're comparing oranges and apples. The DPRK or "North Korea" is doing pretty good for being under such strict sanctions. Anyways, regardless of whatever silly arguments or objections you might have, just like capitalism eventually replaced feudalism and republics replaced monarchies, communism will replace capitalism, when the material conditions demand it. We're not that far from seeing the conditions that necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production, due to advanced automation. Communism is inevitable, you might as well become a "commie" now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sweden isn't America or Wall Street. You're comparing oranges and apples. The DPRK or "North Korea" is doing pretty good for being under such strict sanctions. Anyways, regardless of whatever silly arguments or objections you might have, just like capitalism eventually replaced feudalism and republics replaced monarchies, communism will replace capitalism, when the material conditions demand it. We're not that far from seeing the conditions that necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production, due to advanced automation. Communism is inevitable, you might as well become a "commie" now.

Sweden isn't America or Wall Street.

Americans can't move trading to avoid a 2% transaction tax? Are you sure?

The DPRK or "North Korea" is doing pretty good for being under such strict sanctions.

How good? Like 215th in the world real GDP per capita level good?

 

[Red Front]

Sweden isn't America or Wall Street.

Americans can't move trading to avoid a 2% transaction tax? Are you sure?

The DPRK or "North Korea" is doing pretty good for being under such strict sanctions.

How good? Like 215th in the world real GDP per capita level good?

Americans can but there's no evidence that they would go anywhere else, because it might be better to remain in the US, despite a 2% tax. As far as North Korea's GDP per capita it's around 178, but that doesn't matter. There are many capitalist-run economies that are poor, even ranking below North Korea, so what? Those poor capitalist-run economies aren't even being sanctioned and they still suck.

Non-profit production is the future due to advanced automation technology, so you might as well become a communist now. It's the mode of production of the future. Deal with it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Americans can but there's no evidence that they would go anywhere else, because it might be better to remain in the US, despite a 2% tax. As far as North Korea's GDP per capita it's around 178, but that doesn't matter. There are many capitalist-run economies that are poor, even ranking below North North Korea, so what? Non-profit production is the future due to advanced automation technology, so you might as well become a communist now. It's the mode of production of the future. Deal with it.

Americans can but there's no evidence that they would go anywhere else, because it might be better to remain in the US, despite a 2% tax.

Sweden's experience doesn't count as evidence?
You have any evidence such a tax will work?

As far as North Korea's GDP per capita it's around 178,

but that doesn't matter.


Of course not.

There are many capitalist-run economies that are poor, even ranking below North North Korea,

Of course. Like Eritrea.

 

[Red Front]

Americans can but there's no evidence that they would go anywhere else, because it might be better to remain in the US, despite a 2% tax.

Sweden's experience doesn't count as evidence?
You have any evidence such a tax will work?

As far as North Korea's GDP per capita it's around 178,

View attachment 748605

but that doesn't matter.


Of course not.

There are many capitalist-run economies that are poor, even ranking below North North Korea,

Of course. Like Eritrea.

Pointless.

 

[gipper]

Yeah, that's our problem, not enough wasteful government spending.

Nothing wrong with this. Right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Pointless.

Evidence....it makes commies run in terror.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nothing wrong with this. Right?

With what, the claim?

 

[Red Front]

Evidence....it makes commies run in terror.

In your delusional mind.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In your delusional mind.

That must be why you posted evidence to support your tax scheme, eh comrade?