Zone1 Should A Handful Of Billionaires Own More Wealth Than The Bottom 50% Of All Americans?

[Red Front]

Probably. Thank God I'll be gone.

Unfortunately, indeed. Thank God.

 

[the other mike]

Billionaires.
They want us to forget that just 30 or 40 years ago there were no billionaires ( short of royalty and not counting the Vatican )the big shots were multi-millionaires...... go back and look at Wall Street the movie from 1987.

 

[Red Front]

Billionaires.
They want us to forget that just 30 or 40 years ago there were no billionaires ( short of royalty and not counting the Vatican )the big shots were multi-millionaires...... go back and look at Wall Street the movie from 1987.

There is no reason for society to allow individuals to have so much money and power. It undermines the public good.

 

[the other mike]

There is no reason for society to allow individuals to have so much money and power. It undermines the public good.

The problem with your perception is you're forgetting that we gave the lions control of the zoo in the 80s but now that they gave us the zoo back ( 33 trillion in debt ) they now own islands in the South Pacific.

Not even counting the national debt of the United States.... between 1980 and 2020 there's been around an equal if not larger transfer of private wealth from the bottom 70% to the top 5%.

And of the top 5% , the concentration of 90 % of the wealth is at the top 1/10 of 1 %.

There's no way to get 30 trillion dollars back....or $60 trillion..... when are GDP equals the interest to our foreign adversaries who we owe about 5 trillion no worries just bomb them

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well, we have two options, one is more radical than the other, but will resolve the problem of poverty in America quickly if people were willing to implement it. I will begin with the easier, less controversial option available today that will effectively eliminate poverty until technology requires the adoption of the aforementioned "radical" option in the future, which will create a society of radical abundance, where everyone enjoys a very high standard of living.

We don't need to raise income taxes for the less radical option, however, imposing a 2% tax on all stock market trades would contribute several trillions of dollars yearly to this plan. That tax wouldn't be imposed to fund the US federal government but it would help reduce the possibility of inflation and it would maintain the value of the USD. Even though our federal government doesn't fund itself with taxes, taxes still have a positive role in maintaining the value of the dollar and preventing inflation.

So in brief, our federal government would need to re-open the government-run rehabs and psyche wards i.e. mental institutions, that were closed down in the 1970s, creating much of the homeless and substance abuse problems we have today. Deinstitutionalizing all of those people who needed psychiatric care, made homelessness and the abuse of hard drugs, endemic. We can't effectively house the homeless without the national infrastructure in place to address the substance abuse and mental illnesses i.e. medical needs of that population. So we house the homeless in their own private housing, but they must receive regular services from social workers, case management specialists, and mental health professionals, in order to address whatever substance abuse problems they might be grappling with. They should be regularly tested and if it's proven that they are using hard drugs, they should be forced into drug rehab or the psyche-ward, whichever one applies.

They would have the incentive to stop abusing drugs, because they would have housing, they would keep their children or have their children returned to them by the state, they would have food, a basic income, access to healthcare, vocational job training, and a right to employment in the public sector. So if they have a considerable, noticeable gap in their work history that may prevent them from finding a job in the private sector, they will have a job in the public sector. Sanitation, maintaining city parks, the public works department, public transit..etc. Many different jobs that they can work, for a living wage with good benefits. Getting rid of poverty begins with the homeless, those who are at the very bottom financially and otherwise.

We should establish a Bill Of Economic Human Rights, for all American citizens. Everyone in our country, in our society, who is a citizen or a legal resident, is born with the economic, human right to food, housing, healthcare, an education and employment in the public sector. The basics are provided, upon which people can build their lives from a stable, sure foundation. Everyone needs food, housing, healthcare, an education and employment. It's up to each individual to use those resources to make something of their lives. A few odd balls will opt to live with the basics, but most people, if given the opportunity to improve their lives, will do that and won't just be satisfied with the bare minimum. People have aspirations, dreams, passions and they will have all of the resources and tools available for them to actualize their potential and create a wonderful life for themselves. No one has to remain living in the basic housing units provided by the government, once they improve their finances. They can move on to something better.


Milton Friedman and other well known icons of capitalism, were in favor of providing citizens with a basic income:

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Welfare, as it is organized today, doesn't get people out of poverty, because it takes away their welfare as soon as the person finds a job. The person remains on welfare, without looking for a job or improving their finances out of fear they will lose their food, housing, healthcare..etc. Under our current welfare system and government, people don't have a human right to the basics of life. There's no foundation upon which to build a productive life if one is born and raised in poverty, under our current welfare system.

Unlike what I just mentioned above, which can be implemented within our current capitalist-run economy and system, the radical option completely replaces the current sociopolitical order, with another one that is more compatible with our modern age and technology. Under this new mode of production and economic system, we would adopt a non-profit form of production. An economic model that employs advanced 21st-century automation technology, with all of the robots, autonomous machines, artificial intelligence, super-computers, and self-driving vehicles. etc. We don't need markets, money. etc, just modern, high-tech infrastructure, with all of its resources and components in place to produce all of the goods and services that we use. This is the only true, assured way to avoid the so-called "tech apocalypse":

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The billionaires, the ruling elite in this country, pretend that it's the working class who are in trouble due to advanced automation, but it's actually their socioeconomic class that is up the creek without a paddle, not the working class. All that the working class has to do is take ownership of the technology and means of production (raw materials, facilities, robots, machines.etc), and produce everything. We could all work 20 hours weekly and we would all get everything we need and want. We would keep our homes, our toys, our ...everything. The computers would do the accounting and we would simply take what we are entitled to from the store/s. For example, you worked 20 hours last week, so you have the right to three gallons of milk, X amount of pounds of meat, and you have the right to two new pairs of shoes every two weeks. The system, this society, would be generous and will make sure everyone is well-provisioned and enjoys a high standard of living. Advanced technology will allow us to transcend markets, the need for money, profits..etc.

Everyone will have the right to housing, maybe even two houses, in different cities. Everyone will have the best, most modern healthcare, with the latest technology. Everyone will have access to a great education. Everyone will have all of the tech devices and toys that they own and enjoy today. It will be a high-tech world, without the need for wages, money, markets, and profits. The alternative to the above is techno-feudalism. A new form of slavery where only the rich elites own the factories, robots, artificial intelligence, mines and mining equipment..etc, and everyone else will be consigned to abject poverty and eventually the compost heap. The rich ironically will adopt a marketless, non-profit system of production, and will no longer need money. So essentially, they will become the high-tech, modern communists or socialists, and the working class, will be rendered worthless because the rich don't need to hire them anymore. The vast majority of people i.e. the members of the former "working class" will be thrown away like trash by the new tech lords. I prefer for the vast majority of people i.e. the working class to be in charge, not the wealthy elites who will flush everyone down the latrine.

We don't need to raise income taxes for the less radical option, however, imposing a 2% tax on all stock market trades would contribute several trillions of dollars yearly to this plan.

How would a 2% tax on stock trades raise several trillions of dollars?
Show your math.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not even counting the national debt of the United States.... between 1980 and 2020 there's been around an equal if not larger transfer of private wealth from the bottom 70% to the top 5%.

Transfer how?

 

[the other mike]

Transfer how?

Beginning in the '80s with changing the antitrust and tax laws, already wealthy investment firms were able to swoop in and prop up companies like Walmart......then the enormously damaging trade deals went through like NAFTA..... A multi-conglomerate of corporations including Big Oil the military industrial complex big Pharma to name a few....took over our media and government.

That's my short answer.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Beginning in the '80s with changing the antitrust and tax laws, already wealthy investment firms were able to swoop in and prop up companies like Walmart......then the enormously damaging trade deals went through like NAFTA..... A multi-conglomerate of corporations including Big Oil the military industrial complex big Pharma to name a few....took over our media and government.

That's my short answer.

Private wealth was transferred from the bottom to the top by
WalMart offering cheap goods?

 

[the other mike]

Private wealth was transferred from the bottom to the top by
WalMart offering cheap goods?

By outsourcing to China, SE Asia, Japan, Mexico and India virtually all of our manufacturing except for defense contractors.....

 

[themirrorthief]

There is no reason for society to allow individuals to have so much money and power. It undermines the public good.

why dont thousands of rich democrats give their money to t he homeless....thank of the booze and dope it would buy

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

By outsourcing to China, SE Asia, Japan, Mexico and India virtually all of our manufacturing except for defense contractors.....

Don't we still manufacture a lot here?

 

[the other mike]

Don't we still manufacture a lot here?

You remind me of my 7th grade biology teacher and she used to ask too many questions.

I believe I just mentioned that at least 50% of our manufacturing base is somehow connected to the arms industry.

Peace sells.
But who's buying right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You remind me of my 7th grade biology teacher and she used to ask too many questions.

I believe I just mentioned that at least 50% of our manufacturing base is somehow connected to the arms industry.

Peace sells.
But who's buying right?

You have a link to back up that 50% claim?

 

[there4eyeM]

It will be a testimony to the intelligence of the rich how things turn out. If badly, then we will see how reckless and stupid they were. The proverbial ball is in their court. They have all the lessons of history to teach them how to manage their gift of power. So far, the signs are not encouraging.
One thing history teaches us is that, despite some contributions, Marx does not provide the necessary answers.

 

[Red Front]

why dont thousands of rich democrats give their money to t he homeless....thank of the booze and dope it would buy

Ask them. Nonetheless, society shouldn't allow individuals to have so much money and power, it undermines democracy.

 

[Red Front]

We don't need to raise income taxes for the less radical option, however, imposing a 2% tax on all stock market trades would contribute several trillions of dollars yearly to this plan.

How would a 2% tax on stock trades raise several trillions of dollars?
Show your math.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/The-Tax-on-Wall-Street-Speculation-2021-Summary-v12.pdf

 

[Red Front]

The problem with your perception is you're forgetting that we gave the lions control of the zoo in the 80s but now that they gave us the zoo back ( 33 trillion in debt ) they now own islands in the South Pacific.

Not even counting the national debt of the United States.... between 1980 and 2020 there's been around an equal if not larger transfer of private wealth from the bottom 70% to the top 5%.

And of the top 5% , the concentration of 90 % of the wealth is at the top 1/10 of 1 %.

There's no way to get 30 trillion dollars back....or $60 trillion..... when are GDP equals the interest to our foreign adversaries who we owe about 5 trillion no worries just bomb them

The so-called "national debt" is an irrelevant misnomer, that has no bearing on what we can and can't spend. It's not actually a debt in the same sense as a household debt or the debt of a private business enterprise. It's more like a ledger of how much money the government has allocated into the private sector, as opposed to how much money it has taxed or how many dollars are saved in treasury bonds. There's no real "debt", that's just a silly ploy used by the defenders of capitalism to scare people into not allowing the government to spend money on public projects and social programs. They want the private sector to do everything and place as many resources as possible into private hands, hence they whine about a fake national debt. Watch these economists clarify what the "national debt" actually is:

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[Toddsterpatriot]

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/The-Tax-on-Wall-Street-Speculation-2021-Summary-v12.pdf

imposing a 2% tax on all stock market trades would contribute several trillions of dollars yearly to this plan.

This Wall Street speculation tax, also known as a financial transaction tax, will raise up to $2.4 trillion in revenue over the next decade

DURR

Bad math, worse economics from Sanders, bad reading from you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There's no real "debt", that's just a silly ploy used by the defenders of capitalism to scare people into not allowing the government to spend money on public projects and social programs.

Yeah, that's our problem, not enough wasteful government spending.

 

[Red Front]

Yeah, that's our problem, not enough wasteful government spending.

Not enough good spending and investing in America's future and its people.