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That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
I would doubt that.
The underground Christian church in China, routinely had to memorize their Bibles because the authorities would confiscate and destroy them. Things are more liberal now, but at the time, people would memorize every thing they could before the authorities found their Bibles.
So no doubt, the Qur'an is well memorized, I doubt it's more than those who memorize Christian text.
It seems like that because in our worthless western culture, tons of fake people claim to be 'christian', and yet likely have never even carried a bible to church, let alone, memorized portions of it.
But that's not true throughout the rest of the world.
You're being very naïve. Most people who claim to be Christians can not remember or quote more than three verses from the bible. Shucks...Don Trump couldn't come up with one.
You're being very naïve. Most people who claim to be Christians can not remember or quote more than three verses from the bible. Shucks...Don Trump couldn't come up with one.
You're being very naïve. Most people who claim to be Christians can not remember or quote more than three verses from the bible. Shucks...Don Trump couldn't come up with one.
Many of us can't quote our favorite recipe, a passage from our favorite novel, movie, poem, or TV show either. Bet we could all relate in our own words a great many of the stories and passages, just as we can relate the main ingredients in a favorite recipe.
I can do the PREAMBLE TO THE CONSTITUTION------we the people of the united states----in order to form a more perfect union (????) oh shit ----I forgot.
how about ANNABELLEE ----"twas many and many a year ago----.......
oh shit----I forgot. -----something about living by the sea---"that a maiden and I .....never mind-----I have to review.
genesis------B'reshit borah Elohim et ha shamayim v' et ha aretz ----in the beginning "G-d" created the heaven and the earth
Patrick henry------men cry peace, peace---but there is no peace (that one fell out of my head too.............
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
I would doubt that.
The underground Christian church in China, routinely had to memorize their Bibles because the authorities would confiscate and destroy them. Things are more liberal now, but at the time, people would memorize every thing they could before the authorities found their Bibles.
So no doubt, the Qur'an is well memorized, I doubt it's more than those who memorize Christian text.
It seems like that because in our worthless western culture, tons of fake people claim to be 'christian', and yet likely have never even carried a bible to church, let alone, memorized portions of it.
But that's not true throughout the rest of the world.
You're being very naïve. Most people who claim to be Christians can not remember or quote more than three verses from the bible. Shucks...Don Trump couldn't come up with one.
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
I would doubt that.
The underground Christian church in China, routinely had to memorize their Bibles because the authorities would confiscate and destroy them. Things are more liberal now, but at the time, people would memorize every thing they could before the authorities found their Bibles.
So no doubt, the Qur'an is well memorized, I doubt it's more than those who memorize Christian text.
It seems like that because in our worthless western culture, tons of fake people claim to be 'christian', and yet likely have never even carried a bible to church, let alone, memorized portions of it.
But that's not true throughout the rest of the world.
You're being very naïve. Most people who claim to be Christians can not remember or quote more than three verses from the bible. Shucks...Don Trump couldn't come up with one.
gee----you want it memorized? isn't it enough to know the gist of the book?
I read "DAVID COPPERFIELD" 1000 times-------but I did not memorize it.
You want me to do poetry? I can do lots of THE RAVEN by Edgar ALLEN Poe-------would the Gettysburg Address impress you?
I know "The Lord's Prayer"-------when I was a kid we recited it in public school
every morning ----------give me a gold star.
Constantine decided which books would be a part of the bible and which ones would not. Pulled off that little deal about 350AD. He also set the dates for Christmas and Easter and conveniently picked two pagan holidays which were already being celebrated. Very efficient don't you think?
No, it wasn't Constantine who decided the books of the Bible. Nor did he set the dates for Christmas and Easter. Those had been set much earlier than Constantine, were not based on pagan holidays, but on Jewish ones. Yup, verifiable, if one studies the history of Christian celebrations, not the history of pagan celebration--and then imagines Christian holidays must have deliberately used the same dates.Psst: I'm a huge fan of both Roman/Greek mythology and have also done the research on Christian holidays. I know of which I speak--from either/all perspectives.
>>The first recorded date of Christmas being celebrated on December 25th was in 336AD, during the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (he was the first Christian Roman Emperor). A few years later, Pope Julius I officially declared that the birth of Jesus would be celebrated on the 25th December.<< It was mithras birthday.
I mean there are hundreds of verses which really cause my eyebrows to rise and my lips to tighten. These are a few which really require a lot of faith:
John 2
…9When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom, 10and said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."
(Anyone who is familiar with winemaking knows the chemical processes and aging which are required to produce decent wine much less fine wine.)
Matthew 14:
…20and they all ate and were satisfied. They picked up what was left over of the broken pieces, twelve full baskets. 21There were about five thousand men who ate, besides women and children.
(C'mon now....12 baskets of leftovers from two fish and five loaves?)
Matthew 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Try this one at your gathering next Sunday)
I read the bible and the book of Mormon while I was still in high school. By the time I was thirty years old I had most of the new testament memorized, chapter and verse. I was baptized before a congregation of nearly 1000 on a March morning in 1957 but I never believed these kinds of fables...not for a minute! Methinks most people who say they do are stretching the truth a little. You know....like the folks who wrote the stuff.
>>The first recorded date of Christmas being celebrated on December 25th was in 336AD, during the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (he was the first Christian Roman Emperor). A few years later, Pope Julius I officially declared that the birth of Jesus would be celebrated on the 25th December.<< It was mithras birthday.
You are overlooking Christ's birth being celebrated in North Africa prior to 336 A.D. Remember, in the early years of Christianity, birthdays were not a common celebration, and the celebration of Christ's birth came much later than the commemoration of Christ's conception and death. It was believed that Christ died on the same day that he was conceived. The West calculated this date to be March 25; the calculation in the East was April 6. Notes of these celebrations date back much earlier than the mid fourth century--200 A.D. and before.
Since Jesus' conception was already being celebrated on March 25/April 6, nine months later would be...December 25/January 6. Those communities that elected to celebrate birthdays (such as North Africa) had figured this out prior to the official announcement.
Note the January 6 date was commemorated more for the arrival of the Magi and also was known as the same day Jesus' baptism would occur. In the early Church, it wasn't Christ's day of birth that was momentous, but the day he was revealed to the three magi, and the day of his baptism.
Since it was becoming more and more the custom to celebrate birthdays, and people wanted to celebrate the birth of Christ, considering the celebrations already in place from the previous two centuries of Jesus' death and conception, the only logical dates were December 25/January 6.
What may be of further interest is that Mithras birthday was not set as December 25, until well after 274 when Emperor Aurelian decided to celebrate the birth of the son. Since followers of Mithras associated Mithras with the sun, they adopted December 25, the celebration of Sol Invictus. No one can find any evidence that Aurelian had the Mithraic cult in mind when he set this holiday. The evidence is for the Mitraic cult setting the day celebrating Sol Invictus as Mithras birthday well after 274.
Sorry for the lengthy post, but I love both Christianity and mythology. I want people to correctly understand the origins of both.
Luke did not know jesus at all, forget what he says
Bible tell when Jesus was born, sukkot. Why all the fudging of his birthday?
Birth of the Unconquerable Sun, Mithas, was held on 25 December, two to three days after the solstice when the sun returns.
Sun god vs son of god
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
I would doubt that.
The underground Christian church in China, routinely had to memorize their Bibles because the authorities would confiscate and destroy them. Things are more liberal now, but at the time, people would memorize every thing they could before the authorities found their Bibles.
So no doubt, the Qur'an is well memorized, I doubt it's more than those who memorize Christian text.
It seems like that because in our worthless western culture, tons of fake people claim to be 'christian', and yet likely have never even carried a bible to church, let alone, memorized portions of it.
But that's not true throughout the rest of the world.
You're being very naïve. Most people who claim to be Christians can not remember or quote more than three verses from the bible. Shucks...Don Trump couldn't come up with one.
gee----you want it memorized? isn't it enough to know the gist of the book?
I read "DAVID COPPERFIELD" 1000 times-------but I did not memorize it.
You want me to do poetry? I can do lots of THE RAVEN by Edgar ALLEN Poe-------would the Gettysburg Address impress you?
I know "The Lord's Prayer"-------when I was a kid we recited it in public school
every morning ----------give me a gold star.
David Copperfield?? is there a plan in there which guarantees the saving of your eternal soul??
I memorized most of that horse shit before I was 30 years old and I'm a non believer
I mean there are hundreds of verses which really cause my eyebrows to rise and my lips to tighten. These are a few which really require a lot of faith:
John 2
…9When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom, 10and said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."
(Anyone who is familiar with winemaking knows the chemical processes and aging which are required to produce decent wine much less fine wine.)
Matthew 14:
…20and they all ate and were satisfied. They picked up what was left over of the broken pieces, twelve full baskets. 21There were about five thousand men who ate, besides women and children.
(C'mon now....12 baskets of leftovers from two fish and five loaves?)
Matthew 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Try this one at your gathering next Sunday)
I read the bible and the book of Mormon while I was still in high school. By the time I was thirty years old I had most of the new testament memorized, chapter and verse. I was baptized before a congregation of nearly 1000 on a March morning in 1957 but I never believed these kinds of fables...not for a minute! Methinks most people who say they do are stretching the truth a little. You know....like the folks who wrote the stuff.
Never stop questioning, trying to understanding, prove or disprove to yourself and questioning more.
It is not about memorizing, it is about understanding and applying the best of the faith into your life.
If you doubt, perhaps there is a good reason. It is not the letter of the bible but how do the teaching apply to life today. Are you hung up on curtain teaching yet find yourself hating or misusing other teachings? Do you hate and abuse others because of a presumption of sin rather than weigh the good and the bad and still find love n that person? Were you slighted or wronged, or were you told to hate by your church and fellow member?
Everything in life should be questioned. There is always room for more knowledge and understanding. Not just in faith but in every aspect of life. Religion should not be a rejection of reason and common sense.
Wronged me?? Where I come from we WRONG each other.
Don't worry about me, I've been retired here in a nice lake house for the last 22 years....ever since I retired. We've traveled the country from coast to coast and border to border.....Las Vegas and the Gulf coast dozens of times. We've been to Canada and the Hawaiian Islands. I have eight grandchildren. Two of them are married and I have two great grandchildren. My oldest daughter is in Korea with the two great granddaughters. Her husband is a helicopter pilot and flies a Chinook along the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea.
I spend a lot of time reading, operating amateur radio, playing piano and fishing. Being right here on the lake with a boat docked less than 200 ft. from my back door makes activities on the water handy. Only problem.....I've messed around and gotten old.
About the religion....I've got one helluva lot more sense than to worship an ancient god. I repeat.....put me in the court with Einstein and Tom Jefferson:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~ (published in his obituary)
"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"
~Thomas Jefferson~ (excerpt from a letter to John Adams, April 1823)
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
Don't feel bad fro getting the Books mixed up. I've studied the Bible for over 60 years and sometimes I make the same type of mistake. I once said Noah instead of Moses even though I am very familiar with the history of both men. However, there is something you need to know about last twelve verses in Mark (mark 16:9-20) and that is they are not accepted as genuine by all Christians.
The NIV contains the following disclaimer immediately after Mark 16:8: “The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.”
The Message Bible states in a footnote: “Note: Mark 16:9-20 is contained only in later manuscripts.”
The New Century Versions says immediately after verse 8 : “Verses 9-20 are not included in some of the earliest surviving Greek copies of Mark.”
The Amplified Bible contains the following footnote: “Some of the earliest manuscripts do not contain verses 9-20.”
The Living Translation Bible has the following footnote: “The most reliable early manuscripts of the Gospel of Mark end at verse 8. Other manuscripts include various endings to the Gospel. A few include both the “shorter ending” and the “longer ending.” The majority of manuscripts include the “longer ending” immediately after verse 8.”
The NKJV states in a footnote: “Verses 9-20 are bracketed in NU-Text as not original. They are lacking in Codex Sanaiticus and Codex Vaticanus although nearly all other manuscripts of Mark contain them.”
(NU-Text These variations from the traditional text generally represent the Alexandrian or Egyptian type of text described previously in "The New Testament Text." They are found in the Critical Text published in the twenty-seventh edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (N) and in the United Bible Societies fourth edition (U), hence the acronym, "NU-Text.")
In summary, the authenticity of the last12 verses in Mark are actually disputed by the Christian community.
NOTE: According to the NIV' footnote at the end of the book of Mark, the chapter should have ended with these words (after omitting verses 9-20): "Then they quickly reported all these instructions to those around Peter. After this, Jesus himself also sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Amen."
Constantine decided which books would be a part of the bible and which ones would not. Pulled off that little deal about 350AD. He also set the dates for Christmas and Easter and conveniently picked two pagan holidays which were already being celebrated. Very efficient don't you think?
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
I would doubt that.
The underground Christian church in China, routinely had to memorize their Bibles because the authorities would confiscate and destroy them. Things are more liberal now, but at the time, people would memorize every thing they could before the authorities found their Bibles.
So no doubt, the Qur'an is well memorized, I doubt it's more than those who memorize Christian text.
It seems like that because in our worthless western culture, tons of fake people claim to be 'christian', and yet likely have never even carried a bible to church, let alone, memorized portions of it.
But that's not true throughout the rest of the world.
You're being very naïve. Most people who claim to be Christians can not remember or quote more than three verses from the bible. Shucks...Don Trump couldn't come up with one.
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
Don't feel bad fro getting the Books mixed up. I've studied the Bible for over 60 years and sometimes I make the same type of mistake. I once said Noah instead of Moses even though I am very familiar with the history of both men. However, there is something you need to know about last twelve verses in Mark (mark 16:9-20) and that is they are not accepted as genuine by all Christians.
The NIV contains the following disclaimer immediately after Mark 16:8: “The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.”
The Message Bible states in a footnote: “Note: Mark 16:9-20 is contained only in later manuscripts.”
The New Century Versions says immediately after verse 8 : “Verses 9-20 are not included in some of the earliest surviving Greek copies of Mark.”
The Amplified Bible contains the following footnote: “Some of the earliest manuscripts do not contain verses 9-20.”
The Living Translation Bible has the following footnote: “The most reliable early manuscripts of the Gospel of Mark end at verse 8. Other manuscripts include various endings to the Gospel. A few include both the “shorter ending” and the “longer ending.” The majority of manuscripts include the “longer ending” immediately after verse 8.”
The NKJV states in a footnote: “Verses 9-20 are bracketed in NU-Text as not original. They are lacking in Codex Sanaiticus and Codex Vaticanus although nearly all other manuscripts of Mark contain them.”
(NU-Text These variations from the traditional text generally represent the Alexandrian or Egyptian type of text described previously in "The New Testament Text." They are found in the Critical Text published in the twenty-seventh edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (N) and in the United Bible Societies fourth edition (U), hence the acronym, "NU-Text.")
In summary, the authenticity of the last12 verses in Mark are actually disputed by the Christian community.
NOTE: According to the NIV' footnote at the end of the book of Mark, the chapter should have ended with these words (after omitting verses 9-20): "Then they quickly reported all these instructions to those around Peter. After this, Jesus himself also sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Amen."
Constantine decided which books would be a part of the bible and which ones would not. Pulled off that little deal about 350AD. He also set the dates for Christmas and Easter and conveniently picked two pagan holidays which were already being celebrated. Very efficient don't you think?
Constantine didn't decide a fucking thing. He convened councils and told religious leaders to reach a consensus on specific points and went with their conclusions. The earliest list of what should be accepted as what would become the New Testament was written by Athanasius in his Easter letter of 367. That's 30 years after the death of Constantine and when Athanasius wrote his letter it was in response to a query about which books should be used as several books (now considered apocryphal such as The Shepherd of Hermes and the Gospel of Peter) were still in wide use. It would still be decades more before the canon was settled upon for good, ultimately going with what Athanasius wrote.
Had Constantine had anything to do with it the issue would have been settled a minimum of 30 years prior to Athanasius writing the Easter Letter.
You don't know shit.
