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A talking snake?
C'mon, at least make it somewhat credible. Maybe a talking chimp or even a talking dog. But a snake of all animals.
Geez, did they really think we were that stupid as to believe that?
Constantine decided which books would be a part of the bible and which ones would not. Pulled off that little deal about 350AD. He also set the dates for Christmas and Easter and conveniently picked two pagan holidays which were already being celebrated. Very efficient don't you think?
Psst: I'm a huge fan of both Roman/Greek mythology and have also done the research on Christian holidays. I know of which I speak--from either/all perspectives.
Constantine decided which books would be a part of the bible and which ones would not. Pulled off that little deal about 350AD. He also set the dates for Christmas and Easter and conveniently picked two pagan holidays which were already being celebrated. Very efficient don't you think?
No, it wasn't Constantine who decided the books of the Bible. Nor did he set the dates for Christmas and Easter. Those had been set much earlier than Constantine, were not based on pagan holidays, but on Jewish ones. Yup, verifiable, if one studies the history of Christian celebrations, not the history of pagan celebration--and then imagines Christian holidays must have deliberately used the same dates.
Yeah Yeah.....what chaps my ass is holier than thou Christians who have never read anything other than a couple of favorite verses like John 3:16 and look upon their country pastor as an authority. The pastor decides on Tuesday which verse(s) his Sunday message will be based on then spends 45 minutes collecting his thoughts and most Christians don't know anything else about it except what he says. In other words what you have is an ancient book turned over to an idiot for interpretation. It Says What It Says!!
Yeah Yeah.....what chaps my ass is holier than thou Christians who have never read anything other than a couple of favorite verses like John 3:16 and look upon their country pastor as an authority. The pastor decides on Tuesday which verse(s) his Sunday message will be based on then spends 45 minutes collecting his thoughts and most Christians don't know anything else about it except what he says. In other words what you have is an ancient book turned over to an idiot for interpretation. It Says What It Says!!
I understand which is why I maintain that it is a huge mistake to approach the Bible with the attitude of, "Just me...and the Holy Spirit." The authors who wrote the books thousands of years ago came from a different culture and time and wrote to an audience immersed in that time and culture. To understand the Bible in the context in which it was written, it can't just be the individual and the Holy Spirit. Bible Study has to include studies of the culture, history, and languages of its time. We have to understand there was no separation of Church and State; there was no scientific method. Bible Study takes time, scholarship, and research.
However, within the Bible are many inspirational verses which can touch any life, any time, any culture, down through the ages. That might be part of what convinces people that if a person can read, a person can understand the Bible. Even so, people cannot correctly understand much of the Bible--both its truths and its limitations--without many weeks of additional study.
After the division in Christianity, I think the next greatest thing to rue over the consequences of the Protestant Reformation is that their insistence that people could read the Bible on their own without scholarly study, had people doing just this--and losing any faith they otherwise once might have built upon.
I truly do understand your frustration and anger. I feel a lot of it myself, even though it appears we are on quite opposite sides when it comes to matters of faith.
Here's the kind of bullshit that turns me off...42 death penalty sins!!
•Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.
•Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.
•Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
•2:15,19.
•Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.
•Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.
•Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.
•Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.
•Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.
•Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.
•Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.
•Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.
•Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.
•Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.
•Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.
•Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.
•Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
•uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.
•Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.
•Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.
•Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.
•Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.
•Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.
•Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.
•Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.
•Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.
•Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.
•Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.
•Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.
•Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.
•Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.
•Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.
•Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.
•Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.
•Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.
•Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.
•Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.
•False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.
•Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.
•Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.
•Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.
•Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.
•Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.
•False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.
Here's the kind of bullshit that turns me off...42 death penalty sins!!
•Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.
•Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.
•Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
•2:15,19.
•Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.
•Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.
•Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.
•Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.
•Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.
•Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.
•Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.
•Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.
•Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.
•Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.
•Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.
•Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.
•Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
•uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.
•Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.
•Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.
•Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.
•Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.
•Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.
•Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.
•Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.
•Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.
•Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.
•Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.
•Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.
•Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.
•Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.
•Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.
•Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.
•Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.
•Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.
•Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.
•Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.
•False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.
•Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.
•Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.
•Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.
•Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.
•Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.
•False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.
This is why it is vital to read about the history and culture of the Jewish people. I am not a Jew, but here is what I have been told, followed up by personal research: Today we read the Old Testament Law books and imagine death by the thousands. At the time it appears to be a more a situation where the penalty set forth was an indication of the importance of obeying the law.
From what has survived documented history, and the Talmud itself, the penalty seems to have been intended as a deterrent. You see, the Talmud writes that if any court executes even one person in a seventy year time span (a generation), the people are to refer to that court as a bloody court.
Foolishness like that hurts doesn't it?
Foolishness like that hurts doesn't it?
Foolishness like what? That an ancient book of law lists the death penalty but seldom carried out the death penalty? Or that modern law assigns a penalty of life in prison, meaning a person usually only serves about twenty years? Sure, we can read law books, but do we truly understand how those laws were carried out, any better than we understand how laws that are on the books are carried out today? Did you know that in Kansas there is still a law on the books prohibiting serving cherry pie a la mode on the Lord's Day?
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-15)
You folks just don't get it. Why is god a man and not some unusual entity with the power over everything. That's it sport's fans....that trash was written by men for control over others. Why was in necessary to have slaves?
Are you beginning to get it???
You folks just don't get it. Why is god a man and not some unusual entity with the power over everything. That's it sport's fans....that trash was written by men for control over others. Why was in necessary to have slaves?
Are you beginning to get it???
I understand that you feel the purpose of the Bible was/is to control others. I don't agree that is its purpose. The Bible provides me with something else entirely. As much as we like to think that the Bible is for everyone, maybe that simply isn't so any more that books on fishing or quantum physics are for everyone.
Sounds like incest to me. Mary was his mother. Sure, people can twist stories, that doesn't prove anything except how creative humans are and what they will say to support their beliefs. Or do in the Catholics case but at least they aren't killing people anymore.I mean there are hundreds of verses which really cause my eyebrows to rise and my lips to tighten. These are a few which really require a lot of faith:
John 2
…9When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom, 10and said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."
(Anyone who is familiar with winemaking knows the chemical processes and aging which are required to produce decent wine much less fine wine.)
Methinks most people who say they do are stretching the truth a little. You know....like the folks who wrote the stuff.
Or, the the New Testaments authors were making a point that flies right over the heads of English speaking people of today. It is my understanding that some non-Catholic denominations actually use this story to "show" Catholics that Mary was never meant to be honored.
It bothers you that aging is required to produce a fine wine. But did you know that new wine (and an abundance of it for everyone) was to be the sign of the Messianic age? Did you note how the beginning chapters of John's gospel parallels the story of creation, with Jesus being introduced as the New Adam; Mary as the woman (or Eve)?
Did you pick up on the story behind the story?
Churches were/are about control so I'd agree the problem isn't the bible itself. I suspect some of the authors had no idea their words would be taken so seriously someday.I understand that you feel the purpose of the Bible was/is to control others. I don't agree that is its purpose. The Bible provides me with something else entirely. As much as we like to think that the Bible is for everyone, maybe that simply isn't so any more that books on fishing or quantum physics are for everyone.
Churches were/are about control so I'd agree the problem isn't the bible itself. I suspect some of the authors had no idea their words would be taken so seriously someday.I understand that you feel the purpose of the Bible was/is to control others. I don't agree that is its purpose. The Bible provides me with something else entirely. As much as we like to think that the Bible is for everyone, maybe that simply isn't so any more that books on fishing or quantum physics are for everyone.
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
What it provides YOUYes. What the Bible/religious faith provides me/has provided me. It appears the Bible is like a gold mine. Some strike it rich, others go away empty.
My point exactly......it has something for everyone if you will just give them some of your money:The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world, and other churches are not slackers in the amount of their donations either.
Even though this is so, any church, being human has most likely, at some point, misused funds under its care. Most churches take care to make sure these times are the rare exception, not the rule.
The real charity scams people need to be aware of are the "Sound alikes." For example, Make a Wish Foundation is a wonderful, reputable charity for children. The sound alike, "Kids Wish" is more of a scam, where it was reported that less that three percent of the donations made it into cash donations for children.
The bible is a book which if taken seriously by most of us would be the downfall of civilized mankind. Ancient fairy tales should be limited to fiction and responsible adults could handle the rest.
That's not Matthew, you idiot, it's Mark and it's a section of Mark that was added centuries later by an unknown author, presumably to give it a better ending because the earliest manuscripts of Mark that we have end very abruptly. Our earliest manuscripts end Mark at 16:8 where it reads "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it....it ends. It is not until centuries later that verses 9-19 begin to show up.
For a guy who claims to have memorized the New Testament chapter and verse I guess you didn't memorize that one nor did you spend much time learning about it.
I'm 81 years old. I was baptized in a Baptist church in 1957. I memorized the new testament chapter and verse while I was in my twenties. Forgive me for misquoting Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Speaking of that....did you know that many Muslims memorize the entire Quran? The Quran is perhaps the only book, religious or secular, that has been memorized completely by millions of people.
I would doubt that.
The underground Christian church in China, routinely had to memorize their Bibles because the authorities would confiscate and destroy them. Things are more liberal now, but at the time, people would memorize every thing they could before the authorities found their Bibles.
So no doubt, the Qur'an is well memorized, I doubt it's more than those who memorize Christian text.
It seems like that because in our worthless western culture, tons of fake people claim to be 'christian', and yet likely have never even carried a bible to church, let alone, memorized portions of it.
But that's not true throughout the rest of the world.
