Shootings in Britain

[Vagabond63]

Prove it.

Must have been a mass shooting, we are getting more of his NRA spooge.

The UK does not have a 2nd Amendment or the NRA to protect gun owner rights

My guess is most of the shooting in GB are by the hands of minorities just as it is here in cities like chicago

We don't have a written constitution, it's all tradition and common law. Point about written constitutions is they can be amended and ammendments can be repealed aor replaced. Your guess is a good one. Most shootings in the UK are drug gang related. We don't have "normal" people shooting up schools, churches, etc. Mainly because guns are tightly controlled.

We had a total of 10 mass public shootings in 2019.....in a country of 320 million people...........and when your nuts decide to murder people in mass public shootings, your death toll will be much higher, since your police are mostly unarmed..........meanwhile, armed Americans, when they are allowed to have their weapons with them, are 94% successful at stopping these attackers.......as in France when their nuts murdered people at Charlie Hebdo, and at the Rock concert, your numbers will be really bad.....

And so far, you have been lucky...any one of the following could have been a mass public shooting.....except for luck...not gun control....

5/4/18 2 boys planning attack, steal girlfriend's dad's guns

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------




.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the update, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?



-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack :: Guns.com

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.
Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.
As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.
According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.
Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.
The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.
In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”
He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.
====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.
=======


'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

Ten people, including two children, were taken to hospital after a shooting at a street party in the Moss Side area of Manchester.

Armed police officers rushed to the scene on a residential street at 2.30am on Sunday, where a party was being held following a Caribbean Carnival at a nearby park.


The majority of our shootings are also drug gang related, or simply criminal related, and they occur almost entirely in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities....because it is their policies that keep releasing repeat, known, violent criminals from jail and prison over and over again.......

And again, manipulating the facts by using the most narrow definition of a mass public shooting, what a surprise. Using a more realistic approach when an individual opens fire on innocent people regardless of how many need to be killed to count, we find that as of this July there have been over 300 such shootings.
Oh, and as for that silly list of nonevents. Had they happened in the US they would probably all have succeeded, given how easy it is to get a gun over there.

Notice in my post #376 that knives are used to murder more people every single year in America than all of our mass public shooters since 1982.......


And again, when Americans can carry their legal guns into public spaces, they have a 94% stopping rate on mass public shooters .......

Your people won't be so lucky...........

Hang on, you are using raw figures. By your rules, you don't count criminal on criminal attacks, or mass stabbings when less than 4 people are killed. Your second point is pure fantasy. The only times a "good guy with a gun" stopped any form of mass killing, they happened to be either ex military or ex police, and had been trained specifically to deal with such a situation in the past. Normal people, armed or not tend to run, or hide from active shooters.

Wrong.....that is wrong.

You are mixing mass public shootings with regular crime.

When normal people have their guns in the middle of a mass public shooting, they are 94% successful at stopping the attack or limiting the deaths and injuries.

The number you are mixing up is the 1.1 million times a year normal people use their guns for common rapists, robbers and murderers....from the Centers for Disease control....

Two different categories of crime and responses....

.....we are talking mass public shootings....and from the examples, they are not all ex anything......you are lying...

Again....normal people have a 94% success rate......using guns is not that difficult.

I listed just some of the stories I have collected from various news articles..........none of them are soldiers or cops...or is the woman walking her dog, confronted by the two men, one with a bat, a Navy SEAL in disguise? You moron.

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.
Oh, that church shooting rings a bell, wasn't that plumber also a certified NRA firearms instructor, who had been using guns of all types since he was 9? Also hadn't he been trained on where to find the weak spots in body armour, several months before the incident? OKhe may not have been ex police or military, but he was obviously not an average member of the public, despite the hype.

 

[Vagabond63]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

 

[2aguy]

It's all fake news.

There are no shootings in The UK.

You see, they have very strict gun control laws like the left wants here so there won't be any shootings, ever.

So it HAS to be fake news! Ask Gropey Joey.......but don't ask Spamela. She has an obvious "tell". But Joey? no "tell" because he realy has been on auto-pilot for a couple of years.

Of course there are shootings in the UK, 99.9% of them are gangster on gangster affairs. We just don't have the sort of gun massacres you have in the US in churches schools, bars, concerts etc.

The majority of gun crime in the U.S. is gang on gang, you twit. Which means that normal people who own and carry guns are not the problem.

Again.....our problem comes directly from one political party, the democrat party.....their policies create our gun crime problem in the cities they control.

And I keep having to show you that in Britain, they have professional armed guards at Jewish schools and Synagogues to prevent your immigrant communities from murdering Jewish people. Armed guards.....with guns.

This is pure unadulterated drivel,. There are so many sites that cite so many instances of law abiding gun owners shooting and killing each other and their families. Everyone cited was considered normal until they pulled their legal guns and started firing. America, you have a gun problem, the first step towards a cure is to admit that the problem exists.

Wrong.....actual research shows you have no idea what you are talking about.....

The Criminology of Firearms
In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
----
Public Health and Gun Control --- A Review (Part II: Gun Violence and Constitutional Issues) | Hacienda Publishing

Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6)

That statement is contradicted by available data, government data. The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.



(17) The FBI statistics reveal that 75 percent of all violent crimes for any locality are committed by six percent of hardened criminals and repeat offenders.(18)



Less than 2 percent of crimes committed with firearms are carried out by licensed (e.g., concealed carry permit holders) law-abiding citizens.(11)

Violent crimes continue to be a problem in the inner cities with gangs involved in the drug trade. Crimes in rural areas for both blacks and whites, despite the preponderance of guns in this setting, remain low.(11,19)



Gun availability does not cause crime. Prohibitionist government policies and gun control (rather than crime control) exacerbates the problem by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves, their families, and their property. In fact, there was a modest increase in both homicide and suicide after prohibition and passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968.(20)

And of course there are those who refuse to admit that the problem exists, despite the body count, and make up fantasies to make them feel good. They re-enforce their fantasies by cherry picking whatever information they can find. Meanwhile in the real world the rest of us look on sadly, then shake our heads and get on with our gun free lives, secure in the knowledge that gun control makes us safer.

No cherry picking, only facts and truth. You hate the idea that normal people own and carry guns........in your control freak mind that is something that drives you nuts.....meanwhile, 18.6 million Americans carry guns for self defense and our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%....something you keep telling us can't happen.

Britain never had the violence level that America has....even when you were allowed to own guns...and don't tell us that the few hunting shotguns that the wealthy and connected can own means you are allowed to own guns.....

Meanwhile, both private and government researchers here in the U.S. have shown that Americans use their legal guns likely over a million times a year to save lives from violent criminals.........that drives your control freak mind crazy.

Like Britain...our violent crime is isolated to tiny areas in our democrat party controlled cities.....tiny areas, a few blocks where criminal gangs shoot each other over drug turf, personal insults and lack of self control....and this is not due to normal people who own and carry guns for self defense, sport, and hunting.......

You are the one who is in denial...you think that because your culture and society was very non-violent in the past, that that dictates that it will be non-violent in the future, and that non-violent past means that your gun control laws work.

You are delusional. You have imported violent 3rd world males who don't care about your culture, your traditions, and they do not fear your police. They are driving violent crime in your country and they are importing guns to do it....your gun control laws mean nothing to them......

Blah, blah blah, the usual cut and paste BS. Just for fun, I looked up the last time our murder rate was anything close that of the USA, it was in 1344. Medieval England, when everyone had weapons from daggers to handguns (well hand cannons). Also our gun murder and gun crime rate dropped about the same level as the USA when we banned handguns. Ooh, seems gun control works.

Moron.....your murder rate was low when you had guns...due to your history, your culture, traditions and people......you didn't need to ban guns because your murder rate was low to begin with...

Now....you have imported violent,3rd world males, and they are the ones driving your drug crime...because they don't care about your history, your culture, your traditions and they are not afraid of your police....

Doesn't alter the fact that after handguns were banned gun crime in the UK plummeted by around 75%. gun control worked until the last decade when Right wing Conservative governments cut police and social services in the name of ideological austerity.

No, actually, it didn't....in fact, gun crime spiked for the 1st 10 years of the ban, and then returned to the same level.......so it had no effect on gun crime, since criminals drive gun crime and they were never that violent before.....

That is changing now...

 

[2aguy]

Prove it.

Must have been a mass shooting, we are getting more of his NRA spooge.

The UK does not have a 2nd Amendment or the NRA to protect gun owner rights

My guess is most of the shooting in GB are by the hands of minorities just as it is here in cities like chicago

We don't have a written constitution, it's all tradition and common law. Point about written constitutions is they can be amended and ammendments can be repealed aor replaced. Your guess is a good one. Most shootings in the UK are drug gang related. We don't have "normal" people shooting up schools, churches, etc. Mainly because guns are tightly controlled.

We had a total of 10 mass public shootings in 2019.....in a country of 320 million people...........and when your nuts decide to murder people in mass public shootings, your death toll will be much higher, since your police are mostly unarmed..........meanwhile, armed Americans, when they are allowed to have their weapons with them, are 94% successful at stopping these attackers.......as in France when their nuts murdered people at Charlie Hebdo, and at the Rock concert, your numbers will be really bad.....

And so far, you have been lucky...any one of the following could have been a mass public shooting.....except for luck...not gun control....

5/4/18 2 boys planning attack, steal girlfriend's dad's guns

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------




.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the update, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?



-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack :: Guns.com

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.
Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.
As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.
According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.
Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.
The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.
In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”
He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.
====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.
=======


'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

Ten people, including two children, were taken to hospital after a shooting at a street party in the Moss Side area of Manchester.

Armed police officers rushed to the scene on a residential street at 2.30am on Sunday, where a party was being held following a Caribbean Carnival at a nearby park.


The majority of our shootings are also drug gang related, or simply criminal related, and they occur almost entirely in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities....because it is their policies that keep releasing repeat, known, violent criminals from jail and prison over and over again.......

And again, manipulating the facts by using the most narrow definition of a mass public shooting, what a surprise. Using a more realistic approach when an individual opens fire on innocent people regardless of how many need to be killed to count, we find that as of this July there have been over 300 such shootings.
Oh, and as for that silly list of nonevents. Had they happened in the US they would probably all have succeeded, given how easy it is to get a gun over there.

Notice in my post #376 that knives are used to murder more people every single year in America than all of our mass public shooters since 1982.......


And again, when Americans can carry their legal guns into public spaces, they have a 94% stopping rate on mass public shooters .......

Your people won't be so lucky...........

Hang on, you are using raw figures. By your rules, you don't count criminal on criminal attacks, or mass stabbings when less than 4 people are killed. Your second point is pure fantasy. The only times a "good guy with a gun" stopped any form of mass killing, they happened to be either ex military or ex police, and had been trained specifically to deal with such a situation in the past. Normal people, armed or not tend to run, or hide from active shooters.

Wrong.....that is wrong.

You are mixing mass public shootings with regular crime.

When normal people have their guns in the middle of a mass public shooting, they are 94% successful at stopping the attack or limiting the deaths and injuries.

The number you are mixing up is the 1.1 million times a year normal people use their guns for common rapists, robbers and murderers....from the Centers for Disease control....

Two different categories of crime and responses....

.....we are talking mass public shootings....and from the examples, they are not all ex anything......you are lying...

Again....normal people have a 94% success rate......using guns is not that difficult.

I listed just some of the stories I have collected from various news articles..........none of them are soldiers or cops...or is the woman walking her dog, confronted by the two men, one with a bat, a Navy SEAL in disguise? You moron.

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.
Oh, that church shooting rings a bell, wasn't that plumber also a certified NRA firearms instructor, who had been using guns of all types since he was 9? Also hadn't he been trained on where to find the weak spots in body armour, several months before the incident? OKhe may not have been ex police or military, but he was obviously not an average member of the public, despite the hype.

Yes...he was a civilian who taught people how to shoot, he wasn't in the military or the police, he was a plumber by profession. Any other law abiding citizen can become a shooting instructor in our country, it doesn't take special permission from the government and it doesn't take previous experience in the police or military.......So you just help out when you point out he was a civilian who owned and guns and helped others learn to shoot them...

And in the middle of that violent attack, with no police or military training, he saved 26 lives........he stopped the attacker from murdering 26 people.

And don't try to lie.....we know he was the reason the attacker stopped murdering the wounded because one of the wounded told everyone the killer stopped murdering people when someone called out to him from outside, and he left........

 

[2aguy]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

That 94% number comes from looking at actual mass public shootings where the U.S. citizen had their legal gun with them at the time of the attack.....which is very rare because most public places are gun free zones which means they can't usually carry their guns with them into those places...

And in those mass public shootings, armed civilians...not Navy SEALS, not Police SWAT members stop mass public shooters or limit the deaths and injuries 94% of the time....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------

The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.

 

[2aguy]

It's all fake news.

There are no shootings in The UK.

You see, they have very strict gun control laws like the left wants here so there won't be any shootings, ever.

So it HAS to be fake news! Ask Gropey Joey.......but don't ask Spamela. She has an obvious "tell". But Joey? no "tell" because he realy has been on auto-pilot for a couple of years.

Of course there are shootings in the UK, 99.9% of them are gangster on gangster affairs. We just don't have the sort of gun massacres you have in the US in churches schools, bars, concerts etc.

The majority of gun crime in the U.S. is gang on gang, you twit. Which means that normal people who own and carry guns are not the problem.

Again.....our problem comes directly from one political party, the democrat party.....their policies create our gun crime problem in the cities they control.

And I keep having to show you that in Britain, they have professional armed guards at Jewish schools and Synagogues to prevent your immigrant communities from murdering Jewish people. Armed guards.....with guns.

This is pure unadulterated drivel,. There are so many sites that cite so many instances of law abiding gun owners shooting and killing each other and their families. Everyone cited was considered normal until they pulled their legal guns and started firing. America, you have a gun problem, the first step towards a cure is to admit that the problem exists.

Wrong.....actual research shows you have no idea what you are talking about.....

The Criminology of Firearms
In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
----
Public Health and Gun Control --- A Review (Part II: Gun Violence and Constitutional Issues) | Hacienda Publishing

Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6)

That statement is contradicted by available data, government data. The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.



(17) The FBI statistics reveal that 75 percent of all violent crimes for any locality are committed by six percent of hardened criminals and repeat offenders.(18)



Less than 2 percent of crimes committed with firearms are carried out by licensed (e.g., concealed carry permit holders) law-abiding citizens.(11)

Violent crimes continue to be a problem in the inner cities with gangs involved in the drug trade. Crimes in rural areas for both blacks and whites, despite the preponderance of guns in this setting, remain low.(11,19)



Gun availability does not cause crime. Prohibitionist government policies and gun control (rather than crime control) exacerbates the problem by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves, their families, and their property. In fact, there was a modest increase in both homicide and suicide after prohibition and passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968.(20)

And of course there are those who refuse to admit that the problem exists, despite the body count, and make up fantasies to make them feel good. They re-enforce their fantasies by cherry picking whatever information they can find. Meanwhile in the real world the rest of us look on sadly, then shake our heads and get on with our gun free lives, secure in the knowledge that gun control makes us safer.

No cherry picking, only facts and truth. You hate the idea that normal people own and carry guns........in your control freak mind that is something that drives you nuts.....meanwhile, 18.6 million Americans carry guns for self defense and our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%....something you keep telling us can't happen.

Britain never had the violence level that America has....even when you were allowed to own guns...and don't tell us that the few hunting shotguns that the wealthy and connected can own means you are allowed to own guns.....

Meanwhile, both private and government researchers here in the U.S. have shown that Americans use their legal guns likely over a million times a year to save lives from violent criminals.........that drives your control freak mind crazy.

Like Britain...our violent crime is isolated to tiny areas in our democrat party controlled cities.....tiny areas, a few blocks where criminal gangs shoot each other over drug turf, personal insults and lack of self control....and this is not due to normal people who own and carry guns for self defense, sport, and hunting.......

You are the one who is in denial...you think that because your culture and society was very non-violent in the past, that that dictates that it will be non-violent in the future, and that non-violent past means that your gun control laws work.

You are delusional. You have imported violent 3rd world males who don't care about your culture, your traditions, and they do not fear your police. They are driving violent crime in your country and they are importing guns to do it....your gun control laws mean nothing to them......

Blah, blah blah, the usual cut and paste BS. Just for fun, I looked up the last time our murder rate was anything close that of the USA, it was in 1344. Medieval England, when everyone had weapons from daggers to handguns (well hand cannons). Also our gun murder and gun crime rate dropped about the same level as the USA when we banned handguns. Ooh, seems gun control works.

Moron.....your murder rate was low when you had guns...due to your history, your culture, traditions and people......you didn't need to ban guns because your murder rate was low to begin with...

Now....you have imported violent,3rd world males, and they are the ones driving your drug crime...because they don't care about your history, your culture, your traditions and they are not afraid of your police....

Doesn't alter the fact that after handguns were banned gun crime in the UK plummeted by around 75%. gun control worked until the last decade when Right wing Conservative governments cut police and social services in the name of ideological austerity.

They cut money because you can't afford your welfare state.....you can't provide for your own national defense, you can't float a ship outside of your coastal waters, you can't develop new miracle drugs or medical technology, and if not for Americans with guns, you would be speaking Russian......

 

[2aguy]

Prove it.

Must have been a mass shooting, we are getting more of his NRA spooge.

The UK does not have a 2nd Amendment or the NRA to protect gun owner rights

My guess is most of the shooting in GB are by the hands of minorities just as it is here in cities like chicago

We don't have a written constitution, it's all tradition and common law. Point about written constitutions is they can be amended and ammendments can be repealed aor replaced. Your guess is a good one. Most shootings in the UK are drug gang related. We don't have "normal" people shooting up schools, churches, etc. Mainly because guns are tightly controlled.

We had a total of 10 mass public shootings in 2019.....in a country of 320 million people...........and when your nuts decide to murder people in mass public shootings, your death toll will be much higher, since your police are mostly unarmed..........meanwhile, armed Americans, when they are allowed to have their weapons with them, are 94% successful at stopping these attackers.......as in France when their nuts murdered people at Charlie Hebdo, and at the Rock concert, your numbers will be really bad.....

And so far, you have been lucky...any one of the following could have been a mass public shooting.....except for luck...not gun control....

5/4/18 2 boys planning attack, steal girlfriend's dad's guns

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------




.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the update, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?



-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack :: Guns.com

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.
Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.
As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.
According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.
Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.
The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.
In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”
He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.
====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.
=======


'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

Ten people, including two children, were taken to hospital after a shooting at a street party in the Moss Side area of Manchester.

Armed police officers rushed to the scene on a residential street at 2.30am on Sunday, where a party was being held following a Caribbean Carnival at a nearby park.


The majority of our shootings are also drug gang related, or simply criminal related, and they occur almost entirely in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities....because it is their policies that keep releasing repeat, known, violent criminals from jail and prison over and over again.......

And again, manipulating the facts by using the most narrow definition of a mass public shooting, what a surprise. Using a more realistic approach when an individual opens fire on innocent people regardless of how many need to be killed to count, we find that as of this July there have been over 300 such shootings.
Oh, and as for that silly list of nonevents. Had they happened in the US they would probably all have succeeded, given how easy it is to get a gun over there.

Notice in my post #376 that knives are used to murder more people every single year in America than all of our mass public shooters since 1982.......


And again, when Americans can carry their legal guns into public spaces, they have a 94% stopping rate on mass public shooters .......

Your people won't be so lucky...........

Hang on, you are using raw figures. By your rules, you don't count criminal on criminal attacks, or mass stabbings when less than 4 people are killed. Your second point is pure fantasy. The only times a "good guy with a gun" stopped any form of mass killing, they happened to be either ex military or ex police, and had been trained specifically to deal with such a situation in the past. Normal people, armed or not tend to run, or hide from active shooters.

Wrong.....that is wrong.

You are mixing mass public shootings with regular crime.

When normal people have their guns in the middle of a mass public shooting, they are 94% successful at stopping the attack or limiting the deaths and injuries.

The number you are mixing up is the 1.1 million times a year normal people use their guns for common rapists, robbers and murderers....from the Centers for Disease control....

Two different categories of crime and responses....

.....we are talking mass public shootings....and from the examples, they are not all ex anything......you are lying...

Again....normal people have a 94% success rate......using guns is not that difficult.

I listed just some of the stories I have collected from various news articles..........none of them are soldiers or cops...or is the woman walking her dog, confronted by the two men, one with a bat, a Navy SEAL in disguise? You moron.

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.
Oh, that church shooting rings a bell, wasn't that plumber also a certified NRA firearms instructor, who had been using guns of all types since he was 9? Also hadn't he been trained on where to find the weak spots in body armour, several months before the incident? OKhe may not have been ex police or military, but he was obviously not an average member of the public, despite the hype.

Accidental death of children by gun.....and the majority of these children die in homes with criminals in them who can't legally buy, own or carry guns in the first place....

Over 70 million children in the U.S....over 600 million guns in private hands.....over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense...

Total number of accidental deaths of children with guns....in 2018....? 54. Motor vehicle deaths....2,456.

Fatal Injury and Violence Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2018......

Guns......54

Motor vehicle..... 2,456



Total Cars: 1,261




Suffocation: 1,162

Drowning: 698

Poisoning: 66

Traffic: 2,456

Guns: 54



Under age drinking:

Underage Drinking-Why Do Adolescents Drink, What Are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking Be Prevented?

Each year, approximately 5,000 young people under the age of 21 die as a result of underage drinking; this includes about 1,900 deaths from motor vehicle crashes, 1,600 as a result of homicides, 300 from suicide, as well as hundreds from other injuries such as falls, burns, and drownings (1–5).

 

[2aguy]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Hey....dipstick....

Watch this video, and learn why American women have a choice to not be victims.......British women are at the mercy of men...

Now....be careful....as a European who has been disarmed.....and bows and scrapes to your government...this video might frighten you.....but it is only a video.....you can watch it with the lights on and your comfort animal next to you....this American woman might be able to get you over your fear of normal people who don't have to be afraid of criminals and a rogue government.....

 

[2aguy]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

 

[Mac-7]

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.

Yes you would

just as you would find swimming pools designed for exercis3 and recreation being the instrument of death for children and other unfortunates

or people killed by accident in automobiles and airplanes

 

[Vagabond63]

Prove it.

Must have been a mass shooting, we are getting more of his NRA spooge.

The UK does not have a 2nd Amendment or the NRA to protect gun owner rights

My guess is most of the shooting in GB are by the hands of minorities just as it is here in cities like chicago

We don't have a written constitution, it's all tradition and common law. Point about written constitutions is they can be amended and ammendments can be repealed aor replaced. Your guess is a good one. Most shootings in the UK are drug gang related. We don't have "normal" people shooting up schools, churches, etc. Mainly because guns are tightly controlled.

We had a total of 10 mass public shootings in 2019.....in a country of 320 million people...........and when your nuts decide to murder people in mass public shootings, your death toll will be much higher, since your police are mostly unarmed..........meanwhile, armed Americans, when they are allowed to have their weapons with them, are 94% successful at stopping these attackers.......as in France when their nuts murdered people at Charlie Hebdo, and at the Rock concert, your numbers will be really bad.....

And so far, you have been lucky...any one of the following could have been a mass public shooting.....except for luck...not gun control....

5/4/18 2 boys planning attack, steal girlfriend's dad's guns

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------




.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the update, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?



-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack :: Guns.com

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.
Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.
As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.
According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.
Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.
The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.
In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”
He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.
====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.
=======


'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

Ten people, including two children, were taken to hospital after a shooting at a street party in the Moss Side area of Manchester.

Armed police officers rushed to the scene on a residential street at 2.30am on Sunday, where a party was being held following a Caribbean Carnival at a nearby park.


The majority of our shootings are also drug gang related, or simply criminal related, and they occur almost entirely in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities....because it is their policies that keep releasing repeat, known, violent criminals from jail and prison over and over again.......

And again, manipulating the facts by using the most narrow definition of a mass public shooting, what a surprise. Using a more realistic approach when an individual opens fire on innocent people regardless of how many need to be killed to count, we find that as of this July there have been over 300 such shootings.
Oh, and as for that silly list of nonevents. Had they happened in the US they would probably all have succeeded, given how easy it is to get a gun over there.

Notice in my post #376 that knives are used to murder more people every single year in America than all of our mass public shooters since 1982.......


And again, when Americans can carry their legal guns into public spaces, they have a 94% stopping rate on mass public shooters .......

Your people won't be so lucky...........

Hang on, you are using raw figures. By your rules, you don't count criminal on criminal attacks, or mass stabbings when less than 4 people are killed. Your second point is pure fantasy. The only times a "good guy with a gun" stopped any form of mass killing, they happened to be either ex military or ex police, and had been trained specifically to deal with such a situation in the past. Normal people, armed or not tend to run, or hide from active shooters.

Wrong.....that is wrong.

You are mixing mass public shootings with regular crime.

When normal people have their guns in the middle of a mass public shooting, they are 94% successful at stopping the attack or limiting the deaths and injuries.

The number you are mixing up is the 1.1 million times a year normal people use their guns for common rapists, robbers and murderers....from the Centers for Disease control....

Two different categories of crime and responses....

.....we are talking mass public shootings....and from the examples, they are not all ex anything......you are lying...

Again....normal people have a 94% success rate......using guns is not that difficult.

I listed just some of the stories I have collected from various news articles..........none of them are soldiers or cops...or is the woman walking her dog, confronted by the two men, one with a bat, a Navy SEAL in disguise? You moron.

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.
Oh, that church shooting rings a bell, wasn't that plumber also a certified NRA firearms instructor, who had been using guns of all types since he was 9? Also hadn't he been trained on where to find the weak spots in body armour, several months before the incident? OKhe may not have been ex police or military, but he was obviously not an average member of the public, despite the hype.

Accidental death of children by gun.....and the majority of these children die in homes with criminals in them who can't legally buy, own or carry guns in the first place....

Over 70 million children in the U.S....over 600 million guns in private hands.....over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense...

Total number of accidental deaths of children with guns....in 2018....? 54. Motor vehicle deaths....2,456.

Fatal Injury and Violence Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2018......

Guns......54

Motor vehicle..... 2,456



Total Cars: 1,261




Suffocation: 1,162

Drowning: 698

Poisoning: 66

Traffic: 2,456

Guns: 54



Under age drinking:

Underage Drinking-Why Do Adolescents Drink, What Are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking Be Prevented?

Each year, approximately 5,000 young people under the age of 21 die as a result of underage drinking; this includes about 1,900 deaths from motor vehicle crashes, 1,600 as a result of homicides, 300 from suicide, as well as hundreds from other injuries such as falls, burns, and drownings (1–5).

1600 homicides, how many of those do you think involved guns, 300 suicides, how many involved guns?

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.

Yes you would

just as you would find swimming pools designed for exercis3 and recreation being the instrument of death for children and other unfortunates

or people killed by accident in automobiles and airplanes

Swimming pools are not specifically designed to kill, guns are.

 

[Vagabond63]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

Wonder why you constantly invoke Special Forces, I never do. Given the rape statistics per capita for UK and US are about the same, having a gun seems to make no difference.

 

[2aguy]

Prove it.

Must have been a mass shooting, we are getting more of his NRA spooge.

The UK does not have a 2nd Amendment or the NRA to protect gun owner rights

My guess is most of the shooting in GB are by the hands of minorities just as it is here in cities like chicago

We don't have a written constitution, it's all tradition and common law. Point about written constitutions is they can be amended and ammendments can be repealed aor replaced. Your guess is a good one. Most shootings in the UK are drug gang related. We don't have "normal" people shooting up schools, churches, etc. Mainly because guns are tightly controlled.

We had a total of 10 mass public shootings in 2019.....in a country of 320 million people...........and when your nuts decide to murder people in mass public shootings, your death toll will be much higher, since your police are mostly unarmed..........meanwhile, armed Americans, when they are allowed to have their weapons with them, are 94% successful at stopping these attackers.......as in France when their nuts murdered people at Charlie Hebdo, and at the Rock concert, your numbers will be really bad.....

And so far, you have been lucky...any one of the following could have been a mass public shooting.....except for luck...not gun control....

5/4/18 2 boys planning attack, steal girlfriend's dad's guns

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------




.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the update, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?



-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack :: Guns.com

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.
Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.
As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.
According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.
Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.
The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.
In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”
He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.
====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.
=======


'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

Ten people, including two children, were taken to hospital after a shooting at a street party in the Moss Side area of Manchester.

Armed police officers rushed to the scene on a residential street at 2.30am on Sunday, where a party was being held following a Caribbean Carnival at a nearby park.


The majority of our shootings are also drug gang related, or simply criminal related, and they occur almost entirely in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities....because it is their policies that keep releasing repeat, known, violent criminals from jail and prison over and over again.......

And again, manipulating the facts by using the most narrow definition of a mass public shooting, what a surprise. Using a more realistic approach when an individual opens fire on innocent people regardless of how many need to be killed to count, we find that as of this July there have been over 300 such shootings.
Oh, and as for that silly list of nonevents. Had they happened in the US they would probably all have succeeded, given how easy it is to get a gun over there.

Notice in my post #376 that knives are used to murder more people every single year in America than all of our mass public shooters since 1982.......


And again, when Americans can carry their legal guns into public spaces, they have a 94% stopping rate on mass public shooters .......

Your people won't be so lucky...........

Hang on, you are using raw figures. By your rules, you don't count criminal on criminal attacks, or mass stabbings when less than 4 people are killed. Your second point is pure fantasy. The only times a "good guy with a gun" stopped any form of mass killing, they happened to be either ex military or ex police, and had been trained specifically to deal with such a situation in the past. Normal people, armed or not tend to run, or hide from active shooters.

Wrong.....that is wrong.

You are mixing mass public shootings with regular crime.

When normal people have their guns in the middle of a mass public shooting, they are 94% successful at stopping the attack or limiting the deaths and injuries.

The number you are mixing up is the 1.1 million times a year normal people use their guns for common rapists, robbers and murderers....from the Centers for Disease control....

Two different categories of crime and responses....

.....we are talking mass public shootings....and from the examples, they are not all ex anything......you are lying...

Again....normal people have a 94% success rate......using guns is not that difficult.

I listed just some of the stories I have collected from various news articles..........none of them are soldiers or cops...or is the woman walking her dog, confronted by the two men, one with a bat, a Navy SEAL in disguise? You moron.

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.
Oh, that church shooting rings a bell, wasn't that plumber also a certified NRA firearms instructor, who had been using guns of all types since he was 9? Also hadn't he been trained on where to find the weak spots in body armour, several months before the incident? OKhe may not have been ex police or military, but he was obviously not an average member of the public, despite the hype.

Accidental death of children by gun.....and the majority of these children die in homes with criminals in them who can't legally buy, own or carry guns in the first place....

Over 70 million children in the U.S....over 600 million guns in private hands.....over 18.6 million people who can legally carry guns for self defense...

Total number of accidental deaths of children with guns....in 2018....? 54. Motor vehicle deaths....2,456.

Fatal Injury and Violence Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2018......

Guns......54

Motor vehicle..... 2,456



Total Cars: 1,261




Suffocation: 1,162

Drowning: 698

Poisoning: 66

Traffic: 2,456

Guns: 54



Under age drinking:

Underage Drinking-Why Do Adolescents Drink, What Are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking Be Prevented?

Each year, approximately 5,000 young people under the age of 21 die as a result of underage drinking; this includes about 1,900 deaths from motor vehicle crashes, 1,600 as a result of homicides, 300 from suicide, as well as hundreds from other injuries such as falls, burns, and drownings (1–5).

1600 homicides, how many of those do you think involved guns, 300 suicides, how many involved guns?

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.

Yes you would

just as you would find swimming pools designed for exercis3 and recreation being the instrument of death for children and other unfortunates

or people killed by accident in automobiles and airplanes

Swimming pools are not specifically designed to kill, guns are.

If someone commits suicide what difference does it make if they use a gun or a rope....hanging is a popular method and countries with extreme gun control, like Japan, China and South Korea have higher suicide rates and they only allow criminals and cops to have guns. Even several European countries have higher suicide rates than the U.S.......so what is your point?

 

[2aguy]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

Wonder why you constantly invoke Special Forces, I never do. Given the rape statistics per capita for UK and US are about the same, having a gun seems to make no difference.

It does for the women who have a gun to stop the rapist........just ask them how they feel when they aren't raped because they used a gun to stop it...versus the women who didn't have a gun to stop the rape....think there will be a difference in the reaction?

However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance.

www.tysknews.com

 

[2aguy]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

Wonder why you constantly invoke Special Forces, I never do. Given the rape statistics per capita for UK and US are about the same, having a gun seems to make no difference.

O.K......let's try this question, and see if you will answer...

What would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she uses a gun to stop the rape?

Please, enlighten us....

 

[2aguy]

Prove it.

Must have been a mass shooting, we are getting more of his NRA spooge.

The UK does not have a 2nd Amendment or the NRA to protect gun owner rights

My guess is most of the shooting in GB are by the hands of minorities just as it is here in cities like chicago

We don't have a written constitution, it's all tradition and common law. Point about written constitutions is they can be amended and ammendments can be repealed aor replaced. Your guess is a good one. Most shootings in the UK are drug gang related. We don't have "normal" people shooting up schools, churches, etc. Mainly because guns are tightly controlled.

We had a total of 10 mass public shootings in 2019.....in a country of 320 million people...........and when your nuts decide to murder people in mass public shootings, your death toll will be much higher, since your police are mostly unarmed..........meanwhile, armed Americans, when they are allowed to have their weapons with them, are 94% successful at stopping these attackers.......as in France when their nuts murdered people at Charlie Hebdo, and at the Rock concert, your numbers will be really bad.....

And so far, you have been lucky...any one of the following could have been a mass public shooting.....except for luck...not gun control....

5/4/18 2 boys planning attack, steal girlfriend's dad's guns

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------




.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the update, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?



-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack :: Guns.com

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.
Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.
As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.
According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.
Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.
The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.
In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”
He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.
====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.
=======


'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

Ten people, including two children, were taken to hospital after a shooting at a street party in the Moss Side area of Manchester.

Armed police officers rushed to the scene on a residential street at 2.30am on Sunday, where a party was being held following a Caribbean Carnival at a nearby park.


The majority of our shootings are also drug gang related, or simply criminal related, and they occur almost entirely in tiny, multi-block areas of our democrat party controlled cities....because it is their policies that keep releasing repeat, known, violent criminals from jail and prison over and over again.......

And again, manipulating the facts by using the most narrow definition of a mass public shooting, what a surprise. Using a more realistic approach when an individual opens fire on innocent people regardless of how many need to be killed to count, we find that as of this July there have been over 300 such shootings.
Oh, and as for that silly list of nonevents. Had they happened in the US they would probably all have succeeded, given how easy it is to get a gun over there.

Notice in my post #376 that knives are used to murder more people every single year in America than all of our mass public shooters since 1982.......


And again, when Americans can carry their legal guns into public spaces, they have a 94% stopping rate on mass public shooters .......

Your people won't be so lucky...........

Hang on, you are using raw figures. By your rules, you don't count criminal on criminal attacks, or mass stabbings when less than 4 people are killed. Your second point is pure fantasy. The only times a "good guy with a gun" stopped any form of mass killing, they happened to be either ex military or ex police, and had been trained specifically to deal with such a situation in the past. Normal people, armed or not tend to run, or hide from active shooters.

Wrong.....that is wrong.

You are mixing mass public shootings with regular crime.

When normal people have their guns in the middle of a mass public shooting, they are 94% successful at stopping the attack or limiting the deaths and injuries.

The number you are mixing up is the 1.1 million times a year normal people use their guns for common rapists, robbers and murderers....from the Centers for Disease control....

Two different categories of crime and responses....

.....we are talking mass public shootings....and from the examples, they are not all ex anything......you are lying...

Again....normal people have a 94% success rate......using guns is not that difficult.

I listed just some of the stories I have collected from various news articles..........none of them are soldiers or cops...or is the woman walking her dog, confronted by the two men, one with a bat, a Navy SEAL in disguise? You moron.

Yes, I suspect if I bothered to look, I'd find lots of stories where gun nuts have shot innocent people by mistake or left their guns lying around to be found by their kids who then blow their brains out.
Oh, that church shooting rings a bell, wasn't that plumber also a certified NRA firearms instructor, who had been using guns of all types since he was 9? Also hadn't he been trained on where to find the weak spots in body armour, several months before the incident? OKhe may not have been ex police or military, but he was obviously not an average member of the public, despite the hype.

Here....an average U.S. woman who can teach you about guns....and how to carry them safely for self defense....she is not a cop, a SWAT team member, a Navy SEAL. She is an average American able to exercise the Right to protect herself and her family from violent criminals and joe biden voters who have been burning, looting, beating and murdering Americans in democrat party controlled cities over here.....

 

[Vagabond63]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

Wonder why you constantly invoke Special Forces, I never do. Given the rape statistics per capita for UK and US are about the same, having a gun seems to make no difference.

It does for the women who have a gun to stop the rapist........just ask them how they feel when they aren't raped because they used a gun to stop it...versus the women who didn't have a gun to stop the rape....think there will be a difference in the reaction?

However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance.

www.tysknews.com

Priceless! An article by Robert J Woolley, who was fired by his university for

It's all fake news.

There are no shootings in The UK.

You see, they have very strict gun control laws like the left wants here so there won't be any shootings, ever.

So it HAS to be fake news! Ask Gropey Joey.......but don't ask Spamela. She has an obvious "tell". But Joey? no "tell" because he realy has been on auto-pilot for a couple of years.

Of course there are shootings in the UK, 99.9% of them are gangster on gangster affairs. We just don't have the sort of gun massacres you have in the US in churches schools, bars, concerts etc.

The majority of gun crime in the U.S. is gang on gang, you twit. Which means that normal people who own and carry guns are not the problem.

Again.....our problem comes directly from one political party, the democrat party.....their policies create our gun crime problem in the cities they control.

And I keep having to show you that in Britain, they have professional armed guards at Jewish schools and Synagogues to prevent your immigrant communities from murdering Jewish people. Armed guards.....with guns.

This is pure unadulterated drivel,. There are so many sites that cite so many instances of law abiding gun owners shooting and killing each other and their families. Everyone cited was considered normal until they pulled their legal guns and started firing. America, you have a gun problem, the first step towards a cure is to admit that the problem exists.

Wrong.....actual research shows you have no idea what you are talking about.....

The Criminology of Firearms
In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
----
Public Health and Gun Control --- A Review (Part II: Gun Violence and Constitutional Issues) | Hacienda Publishing

Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6)

That statement is contradicted by available data, government data. The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.



(17) The FBI statistics reveal that 75 percent of all violent crimes for any locality are committed by six percent of hardened criminals and repeat offenders.(18)



Less than 2 percent of crimes committed with firearms are carried out by licensed (e.g., concealed carry permit holders) law-abiding citizens.(11)

Violent crimes continue to be a problem in the inner cities with gangs involved in the drug trade. Crimes in rural areas for both blacks and whites, despite the preponderance of guns in this setting, remain low.(11,19)



Gun availability does not cause crime. Prohibitionist government policies and gun control (rather than crime control) exacerbates the problem by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves, their families, and their property. In fact, there was a modest increase in both homicide and suicide after prohibition and passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968.(20)

And of course there are those who refuse to admit that the problem exists, despite the body count, and make up fantasies to make them feel good. They re-enforce their fantasies by cherry picking whatever information they can find. Meanwhile in the real world the rest of us look on sadly, then shake our heads and get on with our gun free lives, secure in the knowledge that gun control makes us safer.

No cherry picking, only facts and truth. You hate the idea that normal people own and carry guns........in your control freak mind that is something that drives you nuts.....meanwhile, 18.6 million Americans carry guns for self defense and our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%....something you keep telling us can't happen.

Britain never had the violence level that America has....even when you were allowed to own guns...and don't tell us that the few hunting shotguns that the wealthy and connected can own means you are allowed to own guns.....

Meanwhile, both private and government researchers here in the U.S. have shown that Americans use their legal guns likely over a million times a year to save lives from violent criminals.........that drives your control freak mind crazy.

Like Britain...our violent crime is isolated to tiny areas in our democrat party controlled cities.....tiny areas, a few blocks where criminal gangs shoot each other over drug turf, personal insults and lack of self control....and this is not due to normal people who own and carry guns for self defense, sport, and hunting.......

You are the one who is in denial...you think that because your culture and society was very non-violent in the past, that that dictates that it will be non-violent in the future, and that non-violent past means that your gun control laws work.

You are delusional. You have imported violent 3rd world males who don't care about your culture, your traditions, and they do not fear your police. They are driving violent crime in your country and they are importing guns to do it....your gun control laws mean nothing to them......

Blah, blah blah, the usual cut and paste BS. Just for fun, I looked up the last time our murder rate was anything close that of the USA, it was in 1344. Medieval England, when everyone had weapons from daggers to handguns (well hand cannons). Also our gun murder and gun crime rate dropped about the same level as the USA when we banned handguns. Ooh, seems gun control works.

Moron.....your murder rate was low when you had guns...due to your history, your culture, traditions and people......you didn't need to ban guns because your murder rate was low to begin with...

Now....you have imported violent,3rd world males, and they are the ones driving your drug crime...because they don't care about your history, your culture, your traditions and they are not afraid of your police....

Doesn't alter the fact that after handguns were banned gun crime in the UK plummeted by around 75%. gun control worked until the last decade when Right wing Conservative governments cut police and social services in the name of ideological austerity.

They cut money because you can't afford your welfare state.....you can't provide for your own national defense, you can't float a ship outside of your coastal waters, you can't develop new miracle drugs or medical technology, and if not for Americans with guns, you would be speaking Russian......

Blah, blah, bullshit.

 

[Vagabond63]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

Wonder why you constantly invoke Special Forces, I never do. Given the rape statistics per capita for UK and US are about the same, having a gun seems to make no difference.

O.K......let's try this question, and see if you will answer...

What would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she uses a gun to stop the rape?

Please, enlighten us....

Given that in most cases the victim know her attacker, and that in cases where she doesn't, the attack is almost always a surprise blitz attack from behind, a gun is useless to prevent an attack. Over here, more and more women are turning to self defence classes like Krav Maga, which teach situational awareness and how to deal with attacks from behind and dealing with armed attackers. Our women don't need guns to defend themselves.

 

[2aguy]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

Wonder why you constantly invoke Special Forces, I never do. Given the rape statistics per capita for UK and US are about the same, having a gun seems to make no difference.

O.K......let's try this question, and see if you will answer...

What would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she uses a gun to stop the rape?

Please, enlighten us....

Given that in most cases the victim know her attacker, and that in cases where she doesn't, the attack is almost always a surprise blitz attack from behind, a gun is useless to prevent an attack. Over here, more and more women are turning to self defence classes like Krav Maga, which teach situational awareness and how to deal with attacks from behind and dealing with armed attackers. Our women don't need guns to defend themselves.

Again......the actual research shows you are wrong......women who are attacked in public places by strangers stand a better chance of not getting raped if they have a gun for self defense.

Krav Maga is crap.....when it comes to a woman vs. a violent criminal......I have been involved in the martial arts my entire life, and a woman vs. a man is at an extreme disadvantage from the start, and something tells me the average woman is not going to train like a Spartan to make Krav Maga effective.

A gun takes very little training and allows a woman of any size to deal with one man or more than one man even if she is smaller and weaker....

 

[2aguy]

oh, where do you get this 94% you keep pulling out of your hat, more cut and paste BS on it's way, no doubt.

Now the odds of this woman being dragged into a park to be raped and murdered......is a lot less than for a woman living in Britain....watch the video and find out why.....

She is not a soldier, she is not Navy SEAL, she is not a SWAT member....just a normal American woman.........who can fight back against criminal attack...

Wonder why you constantly invoke Special Forces, I never do. Given the rape statistics per capita for UK and US are about the same, having a gun seems to make no difference.

O.K......let's try this question, and see if you will answer...

What would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she uses a gun to stop the rape?

Please, enlighten us....

Given that in most cases the victim know her attacker, and that in cases where she doesn't, the attack is almost always a surprise blitz attack from behind, a gun is useless to prevent an attack. Over here, more and more women are turning to self defence classes like Krav Maga, which teach situational awareness and how to deal with attacks from behind and dealing with armed attackers. Our women don't need guns to defend themselves.

You did not answer the question.....

Would you prefer that woman is raped, possibly murdered as well.....or that she use a gun to save herself?