Shootings in Britain

Vagabond63

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Oh, your hypothetical time travelling questions were addressed to "anti-gun extremists". Since I'm not one of those, I ignored the question. You do seem obsessed with rape. Perhaps you should see a shrink before you act out your obsession, unless you already have.....
 
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2aguy

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15 year old shot in the mouth....in a country with extreme gun control.....

And how did a 15 year old, the one suspected of being the shooter.....get a gun, in gun controlled Britain?

The teenager, 15, is fighting for his life in hospital after being gunned down on his first day back at Kesgrave High School, Ipswich, on Monday morning. A boy, also 15, was later arrested about five miles from the scene at 11am. According to sources, they had once been close friends, reported The Sun. One parent described hearing the shooting just before 8.30am. They said: ‘It was a very, very loud bang. Then there was a lot of shouting and screaming.’ -------
Another neighbour said their son also heard the sound of the blast followed by a ‘significant pause’ then a scream ‘maybe from someone who witnessed what happened’. He told the Mirror: ‘He was apparently shot in the mouth. Today would have been his first day back at school, so someone knew exactly where he would be. The boy who was shot comes from a good family.’



Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro


Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro

How do you know that the weapon was illegal? An eyewitness stated the shooter looked as if they were carrying a brush or pole covered by clothes. That sounds like a rifle or shotgun, both of which are legally available in the UK. Perhaps his parents got careless, like many, many American parents and the kid got hold of the keys to the gun safe/cabinet?

It doesn't matter if it is legal...you dumb ass.....your gun control laws are supposed to stop criminals from using guns to commit crimes......they don't......what are the odds that those doing the shooting went through the rigorous training, and legal requirements to own that shotgun? You moron. And which gun control law in Britain kept them from walking into a school, a theater, a church?

Your criminal gangs will use guns when they want to shoot people ....and your gun control laws are not stopping them....handguns are becoming more and more convenient for your criminals....as they protect their drug trade.
This 15 year old boy was not a criminal until he pulled the trigger. Our hand gun ban was place to prevent mass shootings of innocent people and it has worked. Gun ownership is restricted so it's very difficult for whack jobs to go out and shoot up churches, schools, etc. in the UK, unlike in the US, where these events seem to occur every week.

We had 10 mass public shootings in 2019........ 76 people killed...total.....in a country of over 320 million people with over 18.6 million people who can carry guns on their person ...........

more people are killed by knives every year than by mass public shooters in the U.S....over 1,500 people killed each year by knives......over 400 by clubs...you doofus.
 
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2aguy

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Oh, your hypothetical time travelling questions were addressed to "anti-gun extremists". Since I'm not one of those, I ignored the question. You do seem obsessed with rape. Perhaps you should see a shrink before you act out your obsession, unless you already have.....

And you won't answer the questions.........coward.

Again....

Do you prefer that a woman suffer being raped or that she use a gun to stop the rape?

For the long list of women who used guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, if given the chance to go back in time, would you take their guns away from them? Before they stopped the attack?

Coward.
 

Vagabond63

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15 year old shot in the mouth....in a country with extreme gun control.....

And how did a 15 year old, the one suspected of being the shooter.....get a gun, in gun controlled Britain?

The teenager, 15, is fighting for his life in hospital after being gunned down on his first day back at Kesgrave High School, Ipswich, on Monday morning. A boy, also 15, was later arrested about five miles from the scene at 11am. According to sources, they had once been close friends, reported The Sun. One parent described hearing the shooting just before 8.30am. They said: ‘It was a very, very loud bang. Then there was a lot of shouting and screaming.’ -------
Another neighbour said their son also heard the sound of the blast followed by a ‘significant pause’ then a scream ‘maybe from someone who witnessed what happened’. He told the Mirror: ‘He was apparently shot in the mouth. Today would have been his first day back at school, so someone knew exactly where he would be. The boy who was shot comes from a good family.’



Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro


Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro

How do you know that the weapon was illegal? An eyewitness stated the shooter looked as if they were carrying a brush or pole covered by clothes. That sounds like a rifle or shotgun, both of which are legally available in the UK. Perhaps his parents got careless, like many, many American parents and the kid got hold of the keys to the gun safe/cabinet?

It doesn't matter if it is legal...you dumb ass.....your gun control laws are supposed to stop criminals from using guns to commit crimes......they don't......what are the odds that those doing the shooting went through the rigorous training, and legal requirements to own that shotgun? You moron. And which gun control law in Britain kept them from walking into a school, a theater, a church?

Your criminal gangs will use guns when they want to shoot people ....and your gun control laws are not stopping them....handguns are becoming more and more convenient for your criminals....as they protect their drug trade.
This 15 year old boy was not a criminal until he pulled the trigger. Our hand gun ban was place to prevent mass shootings of innocent people and it has worked. Gun ownership is restricted so it's very difficult for whack jobs to go out and shoot up churches, schools, etc. in the UK, unlike in the US, where these events seem to occur every week.
How has your gun ban stopped mass shootings? Criminals and crazies still have access to guns, you doofus....the only reason you haven't had another mass shooting is the crazies haven't decided to do one........since they can obviously get guns in your country too.....

The Cumbria shooting.....12 people killed with a shotgun and bolt action rifle...you dumb ass.......

12 gauge double barreled shotgun,

.22 caliber bolt action rifle....

12 people killed........


You don't understand anything you are talking about......
One, not using hand guns. How many mass shootings have there been in the US since 1997?
 
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2aguy

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Ah, the gun porn show has finished I see. Been a bit busy of late dealing with Spanish bureaucracy. Anyway to begin.

2aguy said:
No, actually, it didn't....in fact, gun crime spiked for the 1st 10 years of the ban, and then returned to the same level.......so it had no effect on gun crime, since criminals drive gun crime and they were never that violent before.....

That is changing now...
Not actually accurate. The method of recording offenses involving “guns” included possession of child’s toys, air guns, replicas and antiques in a public place. Once this glitch in recording was resolved, actual gun crime fell in reality, except in 2007, when there was a genuine spike due to increased gang wars in many major cities. Once the police cracked down the downward trend continued. Yes gun crime is on the increase at the moment, due mainly to the ineptitude and ideologically driven and totally unnecessary austerity policies of successive Right wing governments who defunded our police (22000 officers lost their jobs) and social programs that helped to prevent young people turning to drugs and crime.

2aguy said:
Yes...he was a civilian who taught people how to shoot, he wasn't in the military or the police, he was a plumber by profession. Any other law abiding citizen can become a shooting instructor in our country, it doesn't take special permission from the government and it doesn't take previous experience in the police or military.......So you just help out when you point out he was a civilian who owned and guns and helped others learn to shoot them...
Perhaps, but he was the exception that proves the rule. He acted tactically as if he’d rehearsed this scenario in his head or actually been trained to act (probably by ex-military or police instructors) that way at the ranges he frequented since he was 9 years old. He was his own “Rambo-esque” hero in his head and got the chance to act out his fantasies in real life. Most normal people would have called the police and if they owned guns, would just have got them ready in case the gunman came their way to defend themselves, not actively gone out looking for trouble.

2aguy said:
That 94% number comes from looking at actual mass public shootings where the U.S. citizen had their legal gun with them at the time of the attack.....which is very rare because most public places are gun free zones which means they can't usually carry their guns with them into those places...
No, that comes from manipulating data and extrapolating as is apparently the norm for the gun nut lobby. 33 instances suddenly become a nationwide 94% figure, really? Pull the other one… Oh, I noted the FBI in brackets in your link, except the FBI never stated that normal citizens stop mass shootings 94% of the time, this was the opinion of the article writer based on extrapolating from 33 incidents.

2aguy said:
Accidental death of children by gun.....and the majority of these children die in homes with criminals in them who can't legally buy, own or carry guns in the first place....
This total BS doesn’t merit any response.

2aguy said:
…this American woman might be able to get you over your fear of normal people who don't have to be afraid of criminals and a rogue government.....
Stavroula Avarmidis? A “normal” woman? Trained by the Massachusetts Police and the NRA? Who now makes money out of preying on women’s fears and insecurities in order to sell guns.

And there we have it, the gun nut lobby preys on the fear and insecurity of normal Americans. Americans who end up owning guns for “self-defense” are basically afraid of their own shadows, or so lacking in self-confidence, they need guns as crutches.

Gun crazies (and the hopefully soon to be defunct NRA) peddle fear pills; “the only way you can stay safe is to carry a gun at all times, from walking down the street to hiking a backwoods trail, or going to a party, carry a gun, sleep with it, masturbate with it, the gun is your only hope!” Throw in Stavroula Avramidis as a bit of gun porn, (sex sells, don’t you know) and there you have the basic sales pitch from the NRA and other gun crazies’ groups; “Don’t forget the Guv-mint…might turn tyrannical at any moment, so you’ll need your .38 special to fight off those nasty Predator drones with their Hellfire missiles, or their M1 Abrams tanks”.

2aguy said:
Again......the actual research shows you are wrong......women who are attacked in public places by strangers stand a better chance of not getting raped if they have a gun for self defense.
That would be the research carried out by someone fired by their university for sexual assault….OK.

2aguy said:
Krav Maga is crap.....when it comes to a woman vs. a violent criminal......I have been involved in the martial arts my entire life, and a woman vs. a man is at an extreme disadvantage from the start, and something tells me the average woman is not going to train like a Spartan to make Krav Maga effective.
*sigh* Krav Maga is crap? Tell that to the IDF, I’m sure the Israeli military would be aghast and change their training to Kung Fu immediately! Ever been in a street fight? I’ve seen martial artists that normally prance around in their pajamas to set rules of engagement get creamed by untrained street thugs who use whatever means necessary to beat the sh*t out of an opponent. Krav Maga is one of many self defence methods that emphasise, amongst other things, situational awareness, use of whatever items at hand that can be used as weapons and a few key moves that can disable an attacker long enough for the attack victim to escape; you don’t need years of training and multi coloured belts. Real life is not Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris.

Oh, as for your other examples, Dinah Burns was 62, granted the American pervo-sphere has many depraved people but I don’t think rapists go around with baseball bats (which, incidentally, come highly recommended as home defence weapons). Maybe American women should be trained to lock their doors and windows if home alone, and maybe some business owners should invest in composite doors that can’t be kicked in. I could go on but I suspect that the fact that there are other, better ways of being secure would fall on deaf ears when GUNZ!!! are concerned. Oh, another fun fact, it appears that 47% of concealed carry permit holders rarely if ever carry their guns when out and about. Woman’s Gun vs. Two Kidnappers: Three Concealed Carry Tips You Should Know - Laissez Faire
Stavroula Avarmidis? A “normal” woman? Trained by the Massachusetts Police and the NRA? Who now makes money out of preying on women’s fears and insecurities in order to sell guns.


Like the plumber...she isn't a cop or a SEAL.......she is a normal woman who went and had training just like any other American can get..........an American woman who can use a gun to save herself and her family from criminals....
 
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2aguy

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15 year old shot in the mouth....in a country with extreme gun control.....

And how did a 15 year old, the one suspected of being the shooter.....get a gun, in gun controlled Britain?

The teenager, 15, is fighting for his life in hospital after being gunned down on his first day back at Kesgrave High School, Ipswich, on Monday morning. A boy, also 15, was later arrested about five miles from the scene at 11am. According to sources, they had once been close friends, reported The Sun. One parent described hearing the shooting just before 8.30am. They said: ‘It was a very, very loud bang. Then there was a lot of shouting and screaming.’ -------
Another neighbour said their son also heard the sound of the blast followed by a ‘significant pause’ then a scream ‘maybe from someone who witnessed what happened’. He told the Mirror: ‘He was apparently shot in the mouth. Today would have been his first day back at school, so someone knew exactly where he would be. The boy who was shot comes from a good family.’



Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro


Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro

How do you know that the weapon was illegal? An eyewitness stated the shooter looked as if they were carrying a brush or pole covered by clothes. That sounds like a rifle or shotgun, both of which are legally available in the UK. Perhaps his parents got careless, like many, many American parents and the kid got hold of the keys to the gun safe/cabinet?

It doesn't matter if it is legal...you dumb ass.....your gun control laws are supposed to stop criminals from using guns to commit crimes......they don't......what are the odds that those doing the shooting went through the rigorous training, and legal requirements to own that shotgun? You moron. And which gun control law in Britain kept them from walking into a school, a theater, a church?

Your criminal gangs will use guns when they want to shoot people ....and your gun control laws are not stopping them....handguns are becoming more and more convenient for your criminals....as they protect their drug trade.
This 15 year old boy was not a criminal until he pulled the trigger. Our hand gun ban was place to prevent mass shootings of innocent people and it has worked. Gun ownership is restricted so it's very difficult for whack jobs to go out and shoot up churches, schools, etc. in the UK, unlike in the US, where these events seem to occur every week.
How has your gun ban stopped mass shootings? Criminals and crazies still have access to guns, you doofus....the only reason you haven't had another mass shooting is the crazies haven't decided to do one........since they can obviously get guns in your country too.....

The Cumbria shooting.....12 people killed with a shotgun and bolt action rifle...you dumb ass.......

12 gauge double barreled shotgun,

.22 caliber bolt action rifle....

12 people killed........


You don't understand anything you are talking about......
One, not using hand guns. How many mass shootings have there been in the US since 1997?
Quite a few.....but total number of deaths from all mass shootings since 1982......about just over 700.........number of people killed with knives every single year...over 1,500......

knives are deadlier than all the mass public shooters since 1982....you doofus.
 
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2aguy

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15 year old shot in the mouth....in a country with extreme gun control.....

And how did a 15 year old, the one suspected of being the shooter.....get a gun, in gun controlled Britain?

The teenager, 15, is fighting for his life in hospital after being gunned down on his first day back at Kesgrave High School, Ipswich, on Monday morning. A boy, also 15, was later arrested about five miles from the scene at 11am. According to sources, they had once been close friends, reported The Sun. One parent described hearing the shooting just before 8.30am. They said: ‘It was a very, very loud bang. Then there was a lot of shouting and screaming.’ -------
Another neighbour said their son also heard the sound of the blast followed by a ‘significant pause’ then a scream ‘maybe from someone who witnessed what happened’. He told the Mirror: ‘He was apparently shot in the mouth. Today would have been his first day back at school, so someone knew exactly where he would be. The boy who was shot comes from a good family.’



Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro


Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro

How do you know that the weapon was illegal? An eyewitness stated the shooter looked as if they were carrying a brush or pole covered by clothes. That sounds like a rifle or shotgun, both of which are legally available in the UK. Perhaps his parents got careless, like many, many American parents and the kid got hold of the keys to the gun safe/cabinet?

It doesn't matter if it is legal...you dumb ass.....your gun control laws are supposed to stop criminals from using guns to commit crimes......they don't......what are the odds that those doing the shooting went through the rigorous training, and legal requirements to own that shotgun? You moron. And which gun control law in Britain kept them from walking into a school, a theater, a church?

Your criminal gangs will use guns when they want to shoot people ....and your gun control laws are not stopping them....handguns are becoming more and more convenient for your criminals....as they protect their drug trade.
This 15 year old boy was not a criminal until he pulled the trigger. Our hand gun ban was place to prevent mass shootings of innocent people and it has worked. Gun ownership is restricted so it's very difficult for whack jobs to go out and shoot up churches, schools, etc. in the UK, unlike in the US, where these events seem to occur every week.
How has your gun ban stopped mass shootings? Criminals and crazies still have access to guns, you doofus....the only reason you haven't had another mass shooting is the crazies haven't decided to do one........since they can obviously get guns in your country too.....

The Cumbria shooting.....12 people killed with a shotgun and bolt action rifle...you dumb ass.......

12 gauge double barreled shotgun,

.22 caliber bolt action rifle....

12 people killed........


You don't understand anything you are talking about......
One, not using hand guns. How many mass shootings have there been in the US since 1997?

He killed 12 people, injured 11...with a double barreled shotgun and bolt action rifle....you doofus........that is more people killed than in each mass public shooting in the U.S. in 2019 except for one, dittos 2018, except for one, you guy killed more people in his shooting than our guys did in theirs and they had access to hand guns...you moron..........................so you have no point, you moron...you don't know what you are talking about....

 
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2aguy

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15 year old shot in the mouth....in a country with extreme gun control.....

And how did a 15 year old, the one suspected of being the shooter.....get a gun, in gun controlled Britain?

The teenager, 15, is fighting for his life in hospital after being gunned down on his first day back at Kesgrave High School, Ipswich, on Monday morning. A boy, also 15, was later arrested about five miles from the scene at 11am. According to sources, they had once been close friends, reported The Sun. One parent described hearing the shooting just before 8.30am. They said: ‘It was a very, very loud bang. Then there was a lot of shouting and screaming.’ -------
Another neighbour said their son also heard the sound of the blast followed by a ‘significant pause’ then a scream ‘maybe from someone who witnessed what happened’. He told the Mirror: ‘He was apparently shot in the mouth. Today would have been his first day back at school, so someone knew exactly where he would be. The boy who was shot comes from a good family.’



Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro


Read more: Terrified children heard 'very loud bang' before boy, 15, 'shot in face'

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro

How do you know that the weapon was illegal? An eyewitness stated the shooter looked as if they were carrying a brush or pole covered by clothes. That sounds like a rifle or shotgun, both of which are legally available in the UK. Perhaps his parents got careless, like many, many American parents and the kid got hold of the keys to the gun safe/cabinet?

It doesn't matter if it is legal...you dumb ass.....your gun control laws are supposed to stop criminals from using guns to commit crimes......they don't......what are the odds that those doing the shooting went through the rigorous training, and legal requirements to own that shotgun? You moron. And which gun control law in Britain kept them from walking into a school, a theater, a church?

Your criminal gangs will use guns when they want to shoot people ....and your gun control laws are not stopping them....handguns are becoming more and more convenient for your criminals....as they protect their drug trade.
This 15 year old boy was not a criminal until he pulled the trigger. Our hand gun ban was place to prevent mass shootings of innocent people and it has worked. Gun ownership is restricted so it's very difficult for whack jobs to go out and shoot up churches, schools, etc. in the UK, unlike in the US, where these events seem to occur every week.
How has your gun ban stopped mass shootings? Criminals and crazies still have access to guns, you doofus....the only reason you haven't had another mass shooting is the crazies haven't decided to do one........since they can obviously get guns in your country too.....

The Cumbria shooting.....12 people killed with a shotgun and bolt action rifle...you dumb ass.......

12 gauge double barreled shotgun,

.22 caliber bolt action rifle....

12 people killed........


You don't understand anything you are talking about......
One, not using hand guns. How many mass shootings have there been in the US since 1997?

And yours is a stupid question....I have just pointed out that with a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun your guy murdered 12 people and injured 11.....meaning that any one of your crazies has access to weapons that can be used to kill as many people as our mass shooters do with their access to handguns......they just haven't decided to do it yet.......
 
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2aguy

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But...if gun control works....why are gun crimes going up in Britain?

He said the operation was sparked by an increase in the number of gun crime incidents across the capital. Local police spent months gathering evidence before the sting went ahead.
-----
‘Over recent months, we have seen an increase in the number of firearms incidents across London and proactive operations like this are crucial to removing the availability of weapons and drugs on the streets.

‘We have now seized dozens of lethal firearms and prevented them entering the hands of dangerous individuals.’ In July, there were 40 shootings in London, compared to 24 for the same period in 2019.


 

Vagabond63

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2aguy said:
The IDF uses Krav Maga as a back up to using their guns.....and trained soldiers are not the housewife taking class 2 times a week for an hour....
*sigh* All armies use unarmed combat techniques as a back up to using their guns.
What makes you think a housewife taking a firearms class 2 times a week for an hour, would make her a deadly accurate shot with the skill set to determine when deadly force is necessary and which is the correct target to shoot at? especially when attacked from behind and/or by surprise? Trained police make mistakes every day, much less Mrs. Rambo-wannabee. Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help

2aguy said:
Which would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she use a gun to stop the rape?.....you failed to address that question.

Next....if given the chance to go back in time, would you take the guns away from the women who used them to save themselves from rape, robbery and murder.
My preferences are irrelevant. Any answer to such a stupid and simplistic question would depend on the specific circumstances and the availability of other options.

2aguy said:
And the guy who stopped the Church shooter....was a plumber.....not a cop, not a SEAL.........a plumber who taught people how to shoot, not to engage in Close Quarters Battle..
…and yet, he used CQB tactics and had taken the trouble to find out where the weak spots were in body armour; he had the skill set to be able to be calm enough to take aim, whilst under fire at a specific point in a moving target. How many “normal” people, and even trained soldiers would be able to do that? Normal people, armed or not, run away from gunfire and if they can’t get away, they hide and take cover. If armed, they rarely if ever shoot back, drawing their weapon as a last resort if the shooter is heading their way. That is normal behavior, even in a society awash with guns. Your “plumber” was the exception that proves the rule, in that he went looking for trouble…armed with an assault rifle.

2aguy said:
Quite a few.....but total number of deaths from all mass shootings since 1982......about just over 700...
Thank you for demonstrating the different mind sets between civilized nations like the UK and Australia, and barbarous, decadent ones elsewhere in the world.

In a civilized society, just one violent death is abhorrent and the cause needs to be remedied.

I think Stalin once said something along the lines of 1 death is a tragedy, 700 just a statistic.

American gun culture dehumanizes people; GUNZ!!! are the only things that matter to the gun nut fraternity…oh, and of course the gun manufacturers who make billions of $ out of human suffering.

2aguy said:
....I have just pointed out that with a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun your guy murdered 12 people and injured 11.....meaning that any one of your crazies has access to weapons that can be used to kill as many people as our mass shooters do with their access to handguns......they just haven't decided to do it yet.......
Thank you for demonstrating that gun control works in the UK. Do you seriously think we only have one “crazy” person in this country? Gun control means it’s incredibly difficult, if not impossible for anyone with psychiatric problems to acquire a fire arm. One instance in ten years proves only that no system is perfect; once again, the exception proves the rule.

2aguy said:
But...if gun control works....why are gun crimes going up in Britain?
Peddling fear pills again. They’re not, since 1997, gun crime has fallen steadily; figures fluctuate for many reasons, including changes in reporting and definitions, i.e. including replica and toy guns in gun crime figures, also in many cases when a weapon is not recovered at the scene, there is no way of telling if it was real or not, loaded or not. What your article states is that gun crime is increasing in London, as usual, you extrapolate this into a non-existent nationwide problem. Par for the course for gun nut shills.
 
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2aguy said:
The IDF uses Krav Maga as a back up to using their guns.....and trained soldiers are not the housewife taking class 2 times a week for an hour....
*sigh* All armies use unarmed combat techniques as a back up to using their guns.
What makes you think a housewife taking a firearms class 2 times a week for an hour, would make her a deadly accurate shot with the skill set to determine when deadly force is necessary and which is the correct target to shoot at? especially when attacked from behind and/or by surprise? Trained police make mistakes every day, much less Mrs. Rambo-wannabee. Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help

2aguy said:
Which would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she use a gun to stop the rape?.....you failed to address that question.

Next....if given the chance to go back in time, would you take the guns away from the women who used them to save themselves from rape, robbery and murder.
My preferences are irrelevant. Any answer to such a stupid and simplistic question would depend on the specific circumstances and the availability of other options.

2aguy said:
And the guy who stopped the Church shooter....was a plumber.....not a cop, not a SEAL.........a plumber who taught people how to shoot, not to engage in Close Quarters Battle..
…and yet, he used CQB tactics and had taken the trouble to find out where the weak spots were in body armour; he had the skill set to be able to be calm enough to take aim, whilst under fire at a specific point in a moving target. How many “normal” people, and even trained soldiers would be able to do that? Normal people, armed or not, run away from gunfire and if they can’t get away, they hide and take cover. If armed, they rarely if ever shoot back, drawing their weapon as a last resort if the shooter is heading their way. That is normal behavior, even in a society awash with guns. Your “plumber” was the exception that proves the rule, in that he went looking for trouble…armed with an assault rifle.

2aguy said:
Quite a few.....but total number of deaths from all mass shootings since 1982......about just over 700...
Thank you for demonstrating the different mind sets between civilized nations like the UK and Australia, and barbarous, decadent ones elsewhere in the world.

In a civilized society, just one violent death is abhorrent and the cause needs to be remedied.

I think Stalin once said something along the lines of 1 death is a tragedy, 700 just a statistic.

American gun culture dehumanizes people; GUNZ!!! are the only things that matter to the gun nut fraternity…oh, and of course the gun manufacturers who make billions of $ out of human suffering.

2aguy said:
....I have just pointed out that with a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun your guy murdered 12 people and injured 11.....meaning that any one of your crazies has access to weapons that can be used to kill as many people as our mass shooters do with their access to handguns......they just haven't decided to do it yet.......
Thank you for demonstrating that gun control works in the UK. Do you seriously think we only have one “crazy” person in this country? Gun control means it’s incredibly difficult, if not impossible for anyone with psychiatric problems to acquire a fire arm. One instance in ten years proves only that no system is perfect; once again, the exception proves the rule.

2aguy said:
But...if gun control works....why are gun crimes going up in Britain?
Peddling fear pills again. They’re not, since 1997, gun crime has fallen steadily; figures fluctuate for many reasons, including changes in reporting and definitions, i.e. including replica and toy guns in gun crime figures, also in many cases when a weapon is not recovered at the scene, there is no way of telling if it was real or not, loaded or not. What your article states is that gun crime is increasing in London, as usual, you extrapolate this into a non-existent nationwide problem. Par for the course for gun nut shills.
hat makes you think a housewife taking a firearms class 2 times a week for an hour, would make her a deadly accurate shot with the skill set to determine when deadly force is necessary and which is the correct target to shoot at?

Because guns are not empty hands......they do not require the skills of the SAS or Navy Seals to use them effectively by a civilian for self defense.......that is why they are so valuable to normal people who don't have hours a week and years of life to train in hand to hand combat...combat that is pretty much pointless against a larger, younger, stronger man...or men....who may also be armed.....

I gave you an entire list of normal women who used their guns to save their lives...they were not SAS, they were not Seals.....

And.....you refuse to answer the questions again....here.....try it again...


Which would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she use a gun to stop the rape?.....you failed to address that question.

Next....if given the chance to go back in time, would you take the guns away from the women who used them to save themselves from rape, robbery and murder.

and yet, he used CQB tactics and had taken the trouble to find out where the weak spots were in body armour; he had the skill set to be able to be calm enough to take aim, whilst under fire at a specific point in a moving target. How many “normal” people, and even trained soldiers would be able to do that? Normal people, armed or not, run away from gunfire and if they can’t get away, they hide and take cover. If armed, they rarely if ever shoot back, drawing their weapon as a last resort if the shooter is heading their way. That is normal behavior, even in a society awash with guns. Your “plumber” was the exception that proves the rule, in that he went looking for trouble…armed with an assault rifle.

You can tap dance all you want.....the man, by profession, was a plumber, who also at one point in his life taught people to shoot a rifle.......he was not a Seal, a cop, or someone trained in actual CQB.......any normal person who showed up with their rifle would have stopped the killing simply by showing up and calling out the shooter.....they didn't even have to hit the guy to drive him away....that is why guns are the great equalizer.....they allow normal people to deal with violent criminals, even criminals with guns, without requiring Seal training to do it....

Story after story of normal people who aren't Seals or cops, stopping violent criminals, often without firing a shot.......you can't deny that, it happens.....lives are saved over and over again.....if you had your way, those people would be raped, robbed or murdered....

 
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2aguy said:
The IDF uses Krav Maga as a back up to using their guns.....and trained soldiers are not the housewife taking class 2 times a week for an hour....
*sigh* All armies use unarmed combat techniques as a back up to using their guns.
What makes you think a housewife taking a firearms class 2 times a week for an hour, would make her a deadly accurate shot with the skill set to determine when deadly force is necessary and which is the correct target to shoot at? especially when attacked from behind and/or by surprise? Trained police make mistakes every day, much less Mrs. Rambo-wannabee. Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help

2aguy said:
Which would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she use a gun to stop the rape?.....you failed to address that question.

Next....if given the chance to go back in time, would you take the guns away from the women who used them to save themselves from rape, robbery and murder.
My preferences are irrelevant. Any answer to such a stupid and simplistic question would depend on the specific circumstances and the availability of other options.

2aguy said:
And the guy who stopped the Church shooter....was a plumber.....not a cop, not a SEAL.........a plumber who taught people how to shoot, not to engage in Close Quarters Battle..
…and yet, he used CQB tactics and had taken the trouble to find out where the weak spots were in body armour; he had the skill set to be able to be calm enough to take aim, whilst under fire at a specific point in a moving target. How many “normal” people, and even trained soldiers would be able to do that? Normal people, armed or not, run away from gunfire and if they can’t get away, they hide and take cover. If armed, they rarely if ever shoot back, drawing their weapon as a last resort if the shooter is heading their way. That is normal behavior, even in a society awash with guns. Your “plumber” was the exception that proves the rule, in that he went looking for trouble…armed with an assault rifle.

2aguy said:
Quite a few.....but total number of deaths from all mass shootings since 1982......about just over 700...
Thank you for demonstrating the different mind sets between civilized nations like the UK and Australia, and barbarous, decadent ones elsewhere in the world.

In a civilized society, just one violent death is abhorrent and the cause needs to be remedied.

I think Stalin once said something along the lines of 1 death is a tragedy, 700 just a statistic.

American gun culture dehumanizes people; GUNZ!!! are the only things that matter to the gun nut fraternity…oh, and of course the gun manufacturers who make billions of $ out of human suffering.

2aguy said:
....I have just pointed out that with a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun your guy murdered 12 people and injured 11.....meaning that any one of your crazies has access to weapons that can be used to kill as many people as our mass shooters do with their access to handguns......they just haven't decided to do it yet.......
Thank you for demonstrating that gun control works in the UK. Do you seriously think we only have one “crazy” person in this country? Gun control means it’s incredibly difficult, if not impossible for anyone with psychiatric problems to acquire a fire arm. One instance in ten years proves only that no system is perfect; once again, the exception proves the rule.

2aguy said:
But...if gun control works....why are gun crimes going up in Britain?
Peddling fear pills again. They’re not, since 1997, gun crime has fallen steadily; figures fluctuate for many reasons, including changes in reporting and definitions, i.e. including replica and toy guns in gun crime figures, also in many cases when a weapon is not recovered at the scene, there is no way of telling if it was real or not, loaded or not. What your article states is that gun crime is increasing in London, as usual, you extrapolate this into a non-existent nationwide problem. Par for the course for gun nut shills.

American gun culture dehumanizes people; GUNZ!!! are the only things that matter to the gun nut fraternity…oh, and of course the gun manufacturers who make billions of $ out of human suffering.

No....left wing policies dehumanize people, then they keep releasing the monsters they create.....

American gun culture creates strong, self reliant people...people who can defend themselves and their families from the dehumanized criminals created by left wing political policies........

And the lives saved in this country by normal people with guns out numbers the lives taken by the criminals created by the democrat party, and released by them from jail and prison over and over again..


Thank you for demonstrating that gun control works in the UK. Do you seriously think we only have one “crazy” person in this country? Gun control means it’s incredibly difficult, if not impossible for anyone with psychiatric problems to acquire a fire arm. One instance in ten years proves only that no system is perfect; once again, the exception proves the rule.

Nice attempt to divert attention......you say you have legal guns in Britain, I point out because you have those legal guns you have all you need for mass public shootings.......you get caught without an answer...since the guy in Cumbria used the legal guns in your country to kill 12 people and wound 11.....more people killed than all but 2 of our 10 mass public shootings in 2019.......he used a .22 caliber bolt action rifle, and a double barreled shotgun......so the only reason you don't have more killers running around killing people is they don't choose to do it...you gun control laws aren't stopping them......

Gun crime is increasing in Britain...as your drug gangs need them to increae their drug turf......they no longer fear the police, they do not respect your culture or your laws.....
 
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Something British women can't do...

 
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2aguy said:
The IDF uses Krav Maga as a back up to using their guns.....and trained soldiers are not the housewife taking class 2 times a week for an hour....
*sigh* All armies use unarmed combat techniques as a back up to using their guns.
What makes you think a housewife taking a firearms class 2 times a week for an hour, would make her a deadly accurate shot with the skill set to determine when deadly force is necessary and which is the correct target to shoot at? especially when attacked from behind and/or by surprise? Trained police make mistakes every day, much less Mrs. Rambo-wannabee. Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help

2aguy said:
Which would you prefer....that a woman is raped, or that she use a gun to stop the rape?.....you failed to address that question.

Next....if given the chance to go back in time, would you take the guns away from the women who used them to save themselves from rape, robbery and murder.
My preferences are irrelevant. Any answer to such a stupid and simplistic question would depend on the specific circumstances and the availability of other options.

2aguy said:
And the guy who stopped the Church shooter....was a plumber.....not a cop, not a SEAL.........a plumber who taught people how to shoot, not to engage in Close Quarters Battle..
…and yet, he used CQB tactics and had taken the trouble to find out where the weak spots were in body armour; he had the skill set to be able to be calm enough to take aim, whilst under fire at a specific point in a moving target. How many “normal” people, and even trained soldiers would be able to do that? Normal people, armed or not, run away from gunfire and if they can’t get away, they hide and take cover. If armed, they rarely if ever shoot back, drawing their weapon as a last resort if the shooter is heading their way. That is normal behavior, even in a society awash with guns. Your “plumber” was the exception that proves the rule, in that he went looking for trouble…armed with an assault rifle.

2aguy said:
Quite a few.....but total number of deaths from all mass shootings since 1982......about just over 700...
Thank you for demonstrating the different mind sets between civilized nations like the UK and Australia, and barbarous, decadent ones elsewhere in the world.

In a civilized society, just one violent death is abhorrent and the cause needs to be remedied.

I think Stalin once said something along the lines of 1 death is a tragedy, 700 just a statistic.

American gun culture dehumanizes people; GUNZ!!! are the only things that matter to the gun nut fraternity…oh, and of course the gun manufacturers who make billions of $ out of human suffering.

2aguy said:
....I have just pointed out that with a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun your guy murdered 12 people and injured 11.....meaning that any one of your crazies has access to weapons that can be used to kill as many people as our mass shooters do with their access to handguns......they just haven't decided to do it yet.......
Thank you for demonstrating that gun control works in the UK. Do you seriously think we only have one “crazy” person in this country? Gun control means it’s incredibly difficult, if not impossible for anyone with psychiatric problems to acquire a fire arm. One instance in ten years proves only that no system is perfect; once again, the exception proves the rule.

2aguy said:
But...if gun control works....why are gun crimes going up in Britain?
Peddling fear pills again. They’re not, since 1997, gun crime has fallen steadily; figures fluctuate for many reasons, including changes in reporting and definitions, i.e. including replica and toy guns in gun crime figures, also in many cases when a weapon is not recovered at the scene, there is no way of telling if it was real or not, loaded or not. What your article states is that gun crime is increasing in London, as usual, you extrapolate this into a non-existent nationwide problem. Par for the course for gun nut shills.

Krav Maga would not have helped this woman...her pistol stopped this violent criminal and she forced him to lie down until the police arrived...in Britain, she would have simply been the next individual murdered by the criminal with the knife....

Without the gun, this woman would have been helpless in front of this criminal...her life left in the hands of a man who had just murdered an 84 year old man.......

Notice this about the story in the local press.........the mention of the woman with the concealed carry permit actually stopping the attacker, telling him to lay on the ground? Gets the smallest portion of the coverage of the event......if you read too fast you will miss it...

She stopped this guy.....she saved lives....

It happened again yesterday in a Michigan Meijer store where a woman carrying a concealed firearm witnessed a knife attack.

A 85-year-old man was fatally stabbed Wednesday at Meijer in Adrian. …
Police were able to take the suspect into custody without incident.
The suspect was a 29-year-old man from Adrian, according to a news release.

Emrick said that a woman with a concealed pistol license witnessed the stabbing taking place. She drew her pistol on the suspect and ordered him to the ground. The woman held the suspect at gunpoint until police arrived.
It isn’t clear what caused the attack and there’s no way to know how many more people might have been hurt or killed if the unidentified woman hadn’t used her lawfully carried handgun to stop the man with the knife and hold him until police could arrive.


From the local news source...

A 85-year-old man was fatally stabbed Wednesday at Meijer in Adrian.

Police were first dispatched to the scene at 12:30 p.m. with information about a man with a knife in the automotive section at the back of the store at 217 U.S. 223, said Adrian Police Chief Vincent Emrick at the scene.

While police were en route, the call was upgraded to a stabbing in progress.

Upon arrival, officers found the victim between the automotive and sporting goods section, having been stabbed multiple times in the head and neck. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police were able to take the suspect into custody without incident.

The suspect was a 29-year-old man from Adrian, according to a news release.

Emrick said that a woman with a concealed pistol license witnessed the stabbing taking place. She drew her pistol on the suspect and ordered him to the ground. The woman held the suspect at gunpoint until police arrived.

 
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Hmmmmm...how is it that 3 men were shot in gun free Britain?

Three men were shot last night in what police called an act of ‘outrageous violence’. Two of the victims were treated for serious injuries while a third was also taken to hospital with minor injuries following the incident in Far Gosford Street, Coventry, at around 10.15pm on Thursday. The suspected gunman is believed to have left the scene in a dark-coloured vehicle.


Read more: Three in hospital after 'outrageously violent' shooting

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Log into Facebook | Facebook

 

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Why don't you start doing a thread on every gun shot incident in this country, 2AGuy. This is your country after all.
Liberals have made it clear they dont care about random gunshot victims unless they are black and killed by cops, or white and killed by an AR-15 during a mass shooting

For instance do you care how many blacks were shot in chicago this year with illegal guns?

of course you dont

but to liberals taking legal guns away from honest citizens is the right idea

the brits who come on this forum and lecture Americans about our right to own firearms are very tiresome when we know they cant even get their own house in order
 
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Britain...vs.... the United States..

The U.S....

This 78 year old woman is not a Navy Seal or Delta Force Operator...

A 78-year-old woman from Spanaway held an intruder at gunpoint after finding the man breaking into her home, according to the Pierce County Sheriff’s Office.
The woman, who goes by Sandy, knew something was wrong when her dog, Booboo, started barking Sunday night.
“I opened my door, and standing right 2, 3 feet in front of me was a man. We looked at each other for a few seconds, and he turned and started to leave. And I said, ‘Oh no, you don’t. You stay right there!’” she said.
Content Continues Below

Sandy said her neighborhood has been plagued by crime recently, resulting in her car being prowled twice. When she came face to face with the intruder, she wasn’t about to let him run away.
“I reached over and got my shotgun. And I cocked it, and I told him to stay right there,” she said. “Told him to go sit on the steps. I followed him out, and I just stood here with the shotgun waiting for the police to come.”
It was Sandy’s first time using the shotgun, which she got years ago to protect her family as a single mother. She was initially “scared to death” while holding the intruder at gunpoint.
“But then I was totally calm, really and truly. I thought, ‘This is amazing!’ I said, ‘You know, I’ve got grandchildren your age!’”
The grandmother asked why he tried to break in and was alarmed to hear some of his answers. The Pierce County Sheriff’s Office reported the man told deputies, “He was looking for his wife and talked about how God had sent him.”

Deputies arrested the suspect and said it’s all thanks to Sandy’s quick thinking and bold actions.


Britain....

That led to a terrifying three-hour ordeal in which the attackers used waterboarding – a form of torture in which the victim is made to feel they are about to be drowned.

The men took underwear from Mrs Jansen’s bedroom and forced it into her mouth before dragging her into the en-suite bathroom. They pulled her head back over the bath and covered her face with a towel they kept flooded with water from the shower head.

‘They did this to me three times but I just couldn’t open the safe,’ she said. ‘I kept telling them it was empty but they didn’t believe me.’

Mrs Jansen, who lives on a private estate in Weybridge, Surrey, told the Mail: ‘I was absolutely terrified, I thought they were going to kill me.

‘They asked me if I had any grandchildren, I told them I had ten and they said “We are going to kill you, do you think your grandchildren will miss you?”

‘I was consumed by fear. It was sheer hell and all I can remember is praying.’


Her six-bedroomed house had been broken into several weeks before the attack last Friday and Surrey Police believe the raiders had located the two safes at that point.

 
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A British police officer.........likely unarmed.....was shot and murdered...by a criminal who had an illegal gun.....in Britain.....you know, where they have gun control....

Inside a police station no less..........

I once saw and episode of the t.v. show, "Cops," when they went to London......it showed London Bobbies taking a really tall guy into custody.....they simply opened the tiny police car door, and the guy got in.....they didn't search the guy till they got to the station......

This is why you search suspects when you arrest them......

A "long-serving" custody sergeant died after being shot by a suspect inside a police station.

The victim died in hospital after the gunman, who was being detained, opened fire at Croydon custody centre in south London during the early hours of Friday.

The alleged killer, 23, is believed to then have turned the firearm on himself. He was arrested and taken to hospital, where he remains in a critical condition after sustaining a gunshot wound.

Paramedics were scrambled to Croydon custody centre in Windmill Road at 2.15am. Officers who witnessed the shooting, battled to save their colleague’s life.


Urgent questions were today being asked about how the suspect, believed to have been arrested on suspicion of possessing ammunition, was apparently able to take a gun inside the station and whether the weapon was missed in a search. The Met said no police firearm was discharged.
----


The station was described as a “state of the art” secure facility with space for more than 40 prisoners when it opened in 2012.

 
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But....they have gun control in Britain.......do the criminals know they have gun control? They sure don't act like it....

Two men have been shot and another was stabbed when masked thugs surrounded a car near a children’s play area. A police manhunt is under way after the violent attack in the Bordesley Green area of Birmingham, shortly before 9pm last night. Three men were in a car on the usually quiet residential street when they were surrounded by a gang armed with a gun and knives. The gang, all wearing masks, opened fire on the trio, hitting two of them in the arms. The third man was stabbed.


Read more: Masked gang attacked men in their car with knives and a gun

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: Metro

 
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A British police officer.........likely unarmed.....was shot and murdered...by a criminal who had an illegal gun.....in Britain.....you know, where they have gun control....

Inside a police station no less..........

I once saw and episode of the t.v. show, "Cops," when they went to London......it showed London Bobbies taking a really tall guy into custody.....they simply opened the tiny police car door, and the guy got in.....they didn't search the guy till they got to the station......

This is why you search suspects when you arrest them......

A "long-serving" custody sergeant died after being shot by a suspect inside a police station.

The victim died in hospital after the gunman, who was being detained, opened fire at Croydon custody centre in south London during the early hours of Friday.

The alleged killer, 23, is believed to then have turned the firearm on himself. He was arrested and taken to hospital, where he remains in a critical condition after sustaining a gunshot wound.

Paramedics were scrambled to Croydon custody centre in Windmill Road at 2.15am. Officers who witnessed the shooting, battled to save their colleague’s life.


Urgent questions were today being asked about how the suspect, believed to have been arrested on suspicion of possessing ammunition, was apparently able to take a gun inside the station and whether the weapon was missed in a search. The Met said no police firearm was discharged.
----


The station was described as a “state of the art” secure facility with space for more than 40 prisoners when it opened in 2012.


So.....not only do they have extreme gun control in Britain...but this guy, the one who shot the police officer...in the police station....was on a government terrorist watch list......and he still got an illegal gun...

The suspect who shot a police sergeant dead at a UK police station was known to counter-terrorism police, it is reported.

The 23-year-old was on the specialist unit's radar in the past.

 

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