- May 25, 2020
- Reaction score
- Lake District England
A few tips on how to debate if you don't mind!If your "research" was anything other than pure guesswork and data manipulation, if not outright fantasy then people might bother to pay attention. The CDC for example, never made any such CLAIMS, they tried a test survey in a few states using tiny samples asking questions over the phone. The data acquired was considered insufficient to make any sort of analysis so the filed it away until your John Lott turned up demanding the data under freedom of information. He then made wild claims about DGUs which were laughed out of court by his peers so he then settled on this fantasy 1.2 million. Nobody knows how many DGUs happen in the US, that's a fact. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.My very first post was to question the insanity of gun deaths in the US.Agreed! But how many times does someone need to bang their head against a brick wall whilst getting nothing but criticism before they realise its futile and give up the ghost?I dont think he does it for our benefit. He is trying to convince an American audience that having guns makes them safer. He doesnt really believe that either,its just his current talking point.There are up to 1000 accidental deaths per year through firearms in the US.Meanwhile in "Elyria".Man shot in gun free Britain...
A man has been shot and another stabbed near London's Hyde Park on a weekend of bloodshed in the capital.
Emergency services were called to Upper Berkeley Street, a short distance from Marble Arch Tube station, shortly after 2am on Sunday.
Metropolitan Police officers found one man with a gunshot injury and another man with a stab and head injury. The men, aged in their 20s, were rushed to hospital.
A man has been shot and another stabbed near London's Hyde Park on a weekend of bloodshed in the capital. Emergency services were called to Upper Berkeley Street, a short distance from Marble Arch Tube station, shortly after 2am on Sunday. Metropolitan Police officers found one man with a...www.standard.co.uk
The Elyria Police Department is investigating after five family members were found dead inside a home Wednesday morning, according to a release from police.www.news5cleveland.com
It doesnt look like gun ownership kept this family safe. please explain how this mass shooting could happen in a country where everyone is armed ? It doesnt make sense.
Hmmmmm....family murder.....happens in Britain quite a little bit.......but, don't you guys have all the gun control you want?
In the last three months, three fathers have killed their partners, children and themselves - but what drives men to take such drastic action? Radio 4's File on 4 investigates.
"He walked out of the house, took a shotgun from the car, picked our family out and shot them."
Within a matter of minutes taxi driverMichael Atherton killed his partner Susan McGoldrick, her sister and her niece - before finally turning the gun on himself.
For Susan's family it was a loss from which they will never recover. But this family is not alone.
The tragedy was one of three so-called "family annihilations" in as many weeks - and there are around five such incidents per year in England and Wales.There's this notion that if they feel they can't carry on in this world they're not going to leave other people behindDr Marilyn Gregory, Sheffield University
In the last two months four fathers have killed their families and then themselves - but what leads men to take such action and is enough being done to understand the causes, asks File on 4 reporter Jane Deith.www.bbc.com
Ban guns and those lives would be saved.
Apart from the 33,500 deaths from firearms each year, there are also 75,000 injuries attributed to firearms.
Time to give it up cowboy, you are never going to convince the British public that guns save lives because the statistics prove the opposite.
Must say I have to give you credit for effort, but maybe your zeal would be better rewarded by promoting something positive that the US has to offer us in Britain cos your gun thing aint never going to fly.
Bottom line is his guns are his only friends and he wants to keep them.
This guy is evidently just going to keep on banging!
Though I've stated the stats before on this thread, I'll do so again. You need to forget whether your gun crime has reduced, even if what you say is true which I very much doubt its irrelevant
and suspect if the figures are falling its because you are running out of people intent on killing each other cos they are succeeding.
Gun related deaths per 100,000 population.
With a population of 333546000 in the USA. That works out at 40,000 gun deaths per annum.
Coronavirus deaths in comparison work out at 98,000,- true that is more than twice as many, but gun deaths happen every year. Considering the lengths gone to, to stop Corona, isn't it time a total ban on guns was taken to bring the USA in line with what we consider to be a civilized society.
And to get 40,000 which isn't even accurate, you have to mix suicide into the murder rate.....which is just a lie.
Again....we have 320 million people, 600 million guns in the country...
According to the FBI we had 10,265 gun murders...
According to the Centers for Disease Control Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murder....
According to the Department of Justice research Americans use their legal guns 1.5 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murder.....
And according to other research, as I posted in this thread.....176,000 lives are saved, on average, each year with our legal guns in the hands of armed citizens....
Can you tell which number is bigger?
176,000 vs 10,265?
You made up the accidental gun death number and pretended it was a real fact....so you have nothing to add to this discussion...
What Kleck found in his research when he discovered the CDC was hiding data...
What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses? by Gary Kleck :: SSRN
In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.
The annual number of DGUs implied by the 20 national
surveys summarized in Table 4 ranges from 0.6 million to 6.1 million (omitting the extreme outlier of 9.6 million implied by the 2014 CNN survey), averaging 2.2 million.
Thus, the estimates we derived from the three CDC surveys of 0.6, 0.9, and 1.9 million (Table 3) all fall within the range of estimates generated by previous surveys.
The CDC surveys thereby confirm what nongovernmental surveys have indicated – defensive use of firearms by crime victims is common in the U. S.
In sum, even when CDC, an organization perceived by some to be strongly “anti-gun,” devised and conducted the surveys, their survey results implied huge estimates of defensive gun uses – over a million per year, far more than the number of violent crimes in which offenders used guns. The CDC routinely reports results of the BRFSS regarding a wide variety of topics on their website, including results pertaining to subareas of the nation (CDC 2018b) and even results pertaining to individual states (CDC 2018c). The agency clearly regarded DGU as a topic that was sufficiently important to carefully craft DGU questions and make them available to states to use as optional parts of the very expensive BRFSS.
The CDC did not, however, report their DGU results.
CDC personnel have regarded results pertaining to only seven or fewer states as insufficiently important to report. Or maybe they decided not to report the DGU results because they believed there were problems with the research generating the results. If so, this was not by itself a sufficient justification for completely suppressing important results. A better practice would have been to report the findings, accompanied by appropriate caveats about limitations and possible problems with the research. This would have allowed readers to judge for themselves whether the limitations were so severe that the findings should be discounted, whereas failing to report the findings at all makes this impossible.
Another factor, however, could have played a role in the decision to not report the DGU findings. For CDC’s own 1990s surveys to generate high estimates of DGU prevalence was clearly not helpful to efforts to enact stricter controls over firearms, since it implies that some strict controls might disarm a significant number of people who otherwise would have been able to use a gun for self-protection.
If CDC personnel hold the pro-control or antigun sentiments that organizations like the NRA attribute to them, high estimates of defensive gun uses would be unwelcome news that they would not care to disseminate widely.
Stop changing the colour of your type - why do you do that its really irritating?
Keep your arguments to the point.
Keep your arguments concise and factual.
Stop repeating yourself with metres of speculative unsubstantiated info.
Finally I think you should concentrate on the latest mass shooting in Washington state - 20 killed,
rather than on the few shootings we have in Britain per year.