Shoot an unarmed groom, 50 times??

Working Man

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Seems pretty serious at first glance. But, were you there when the car was ramming the police vehicles??? IF,,, the late groom was doing it after the police showed their badges and portable flashing lights,,, then I would guess he wanted to die..

I don't honestly believe race was an issue, but I do think it had something to do with the facial expression** of the man who was behind the wheel of the car,,, and more importantly/significant,, his actions... He chose to ram and run.. Bad Choice Bro.

New York cops may be a bit quick to spray and pray.. That unarmed guy they killed a few years ago in front of his apartment is troublling. He wasn't ramming vehicles and buildings with a 2800#+/- hammer/weapon either, this latest fatality did.


** Don't really care for his lack of smile in the photos shown with his almost widow.. Seemed like he had a chip on his shoulder, and not a fire in his heart for the woman he was to wed.
 

Trigg

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Seems pretty serious at first glance. But, were you there when the car was ramming the police vehicles??? IF,,, the late groom was doing it after the police showed their badges and portable flashing lights,,, then I would guess he wanted to die..

I don't honestly believe race was an issue, but I do think it had something to do with the facial expression** of the man who was behind the wheel of the car,,, and more importantly/significant,, his actions... He chose to ram and run.. Bad Choice Bro.

New York cops may be a bit quick to spray and pray.. That unarmed guy they killed a few years ago in front of his apartment is troublling. He wasn't ramming vehicles and buildings with a 2800#+/- hammer/weapon either, this latest fatality did.


** Don't really care for his lack of smile in the photos shown with his almost widow.. Seemed like he had a chip on his shoulder, and not a fire in his heart for the woman he was to wed.

Okay.....the cops in this instance were wrong. How do you justify shooting that many times with NO return fire???????????????????????

However, I don't see how this can be racial since 2 cops were black, 2 white and 1 hispanic.
 
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W

Working Man

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Okay.....the cops in this instance were wrong. How do you justify shooting that many times with NO return fire???????????????????????

However, I don't see how this can be racial since 2 cops were black, 2 white and 1 hispanic.
No, there was no gun fire being returned. Makes me question the info that the cops had on this guy, but then,, any doubt was probably removed when the dead guy rammed the undercover cops and the building trying to get away..

Sure, I would honestly like to see what the truth is to this story. The likes of Sharpton are trying to start some crap, and the neighborhoods don't need anymore fuel put on this event. If, after the investigation, the facts show that the involved cops acted poorly,,then punish accordingly.
 

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He's talking about this:

More than 50 shots fired by police at the apparently unarmed group of 3 men coming from a bachelor party in Jamaica, Queens.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...dec05,0,591164.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork

The undercover cop involved was drinking in the same bar as part of his undercover assignment, but no breathalizer test was given him.

I can't see how 50 shots was appropriate force, but I figure I'll wait until there's more information before making up my mind.
 

Mr. P

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He's talking about this:

More than 50 shots fired by police at the apparently unarmed group of 3 men coming from a bachelor party in Jamaica, Queens.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...dec05,0,591164.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork

The undercover cop involved was drinking in the same bar as part of his undercover assignment, but no breathalizer test was given him.

I can't see how 50 shots was appropriate force, but I figure I'll wait until there's more information before making up my mind.
Thanks, J.
 

theHawk

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I don't know the details but what if he was shot while in the car and his foot remained on the pedal? If his car was still revving its considered a weapon. I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for these guys, and the fact that he was going to get married is completely irrelevant. It was a pack of young men that decided to act like a bunch of wannabe gangsters to the wrong crowd - undercover cops. Lets not forget that one man got away (he most likely had the gun that was seen eariler). This is just being used by politicians to rile up their black base. If the black community doesn't want to see their young men constantly getting killed by cops then maybe should start spreading the word that they shouldn't be running around acting like gangsters and pimps, especially at places like strip clubs. But no, thats not the Al Sharpton way. He and his kind(liberals) would rather see the officers thrown in jail, their superiors disgraced and fired, and millions of tax dollars awarded to a group of complete idiots.


:gang1:
 

CrimsonWhite

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He's talking about this:

More than 50 shots fired by police at the apparently unarmed group of 3 men coming from a bachelor party in Jamaica, Queens.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...dec05,0,591164.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork

The undercover cop involved was drinking in the same bar as part of his undercover assignment, but no breathalizer test was given him.

I can't see how 50 shots was appropriate force, but I figure I'll wait until there's more information before making up my mind.
Why is the number of shots important? The suspect was probably dead at 3 or 4. If they had stopped shooting at three or four shots, would there still be an uproar? When police officers feel threatened they open fire. That is why they carry guns. Personnaly I feel the officers were right on this. The suspect rammed a police car. It is very easy for the police to think he would open fire. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Just my two cents.
 

William Joyce

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I don't know the details but what if he was shot while in the car and his foot remained on the pedal? If his car was still revving its considered a weapon.
Right. The media so reflexively uses the term "unarmed," it's like it's a macro key on their computers. "An unarmed African immigrant," an "unarmed youth," an "unarmed groom." You can just picture the faggy liberal journalist sitting there, typing it out slowly and indignantly, "u-n-a-r-m-e-d..." "mmmmm, unarmed, gonna get a Pulitzer. unarmed... oppressed. black. evil white racist cops.... mmmmm. repeat."
 

Avatar4321

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It never ceases to amaze me that no one ever considers that if he wasnt hanging out at a strip club, a place of high criminal activity, and was instead getting ready for his wedding or getting a nice steak with the guys rather than oggling naked women, he wouldnt have had problems with the police.

You see, avoiding trouble with the cops is pretty darn easy. Dont go places criminal elements hang out and dont commit crimes.

What a foreign concept.
 

jillian

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I don't know the details but what if he was shot while in the car and his foot remained on the pedal? If his car was still revving its considered a weapon. I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for these guys, and the fact that he was going to get married is completely irrelevant. It was a pack of young men that decided to act like a bunch of wannabe gangsters to the wrong crowd - undercover cops. Lets not forget that one man got away (he most likely had the gun that was seen eariler). This is just being used by politicians to rile up their black base. If the black community doesn't want to see their young men constantly getting killed by cops then maybe should start spreading the word that they shouldn't be running around acting like gangsters and pimps, especially at places like strip clubs. But no, thats not the Al Sharpton way. He and his kind(liberals) would rather see the officers thrown in jail, their superiors disgraced and fired, and millions of tax dollars awarded to a group of complete idiots.


:gang1:

Like I said, my jury's still out. Yours should be, too, since they haven't finished investigating. We do know the undercover cop who started shooting had been drinking to maintain his cover. We don't know if he was impaired because no breathalyzer test was given at the scene. If his judgment was impaired, he had no business firing a weapon -- not fifty times, not one time.

There is no evidence to back up your presumption that they were acting like "gangstas and pimps". That hasn't even been alleged by the police. So try avoiding the racial stereotypes.

As for the neighborhood, Jamaica is a mixed bag. Black, Hispanic, Carribean, Indian, Arab. High poverty, but also a lot of little well-maintained houses owned by people who worked very hard to buy and maintain them. Oh yeah... and quite a bit of small business (not just the seedy type and drug dealers and prostitutes) and two courthouses set down smack-dab in the middle.
 

jillian

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Why is the number of shots important? The suspect was probably dead at 3 or 4. If they had stopped shooting at three or four shots, would there still be an uproar? When police officers feel threatened they open fire. That is why they carry guns. Personnaly I feel the officers were right on this. The suspect rammed a police car. It is very easy for the police to think he would open fire. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Just my two cents.

Well, you might be right. And that's what the investigation might find. On the other hand, the investigation might also show that the impaired undercover had no reason to feel threatened in the first place by these men.

There is also a question as to whether the undercover ever identified himself as a police officer before shooting. If someone in plain clothes pulled a gun on me without showing a badge or giving any indication that he was a cop, I can't say that I'd stop if they came after me with a gun.

To a lay person, the number of shots indicates a lack of control. If the investigation shows that not even the first shot should have been fired, then that lack of control is undue force.

But like I said... we'll see what the investigation determines. After Amadou Diallo, I sure wouldn't presume that the police are in the right. And undercovers have a long and spotty history of being not much better than the people they have to arrest.

Good to see you posting again, by the way. :)
 

Mr. P

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Just food for thought and a somewhat speculation I admit.

I don’t know what kind of weapons these cops were carrying but. If they were semi autos with standard 10 round magazines. 5x10=50 shots.. 1 mag each. That would explain the 50 shots.
 

jillian

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Just food for thought and a somewhat speculation I admit.

I don’t know what kind of weapons these cops were carrying but. If they were semi autos with standard 10 round magazines. 5x10=50 shots.. 1 mag each. That would explain the 50 shots.
My husband says he thinks they carry Glock semi-autos... probably with 14 or 15 rounds, maybe more.
 

Annie

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Just food for thought and a somewhat speculation I admit.

I don’t know what kind of weapons these cops were carrying but. If they were semi autos with standard 10 round magazines. 5x10=50 shots.. 1 mag each. That would explain the 50 shots.
Right after it happened:

11.27:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232079,00.html

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Mr. P

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Right after it happened:

11.27:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232079,00.html

Right now:

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,630 for bloomberg police Bell. (0.69 seconds)
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Search news source Bloomberg for police Bell.


Gothamist Queens Shooting: Fiancee Takes Sean Bell's Name
Gothamist, NY - 4 hours ago
... to change her name to Nicole Paultrie Bell in an ... suddenly become the face of the police brutality issue ... Hillary Clinton—I spoke with her and Mayor Bloomberg. ...

CTV.ca 1,000 in New York protest killing by cops
The Militant, NY - 4 hours ago
... attack have also refuted the police allegations ... the plainclothes cops who killed Bell had identified ... Meanwhile, Mayor Michael Bloomberg has insisted on waiting ...
Queens shooting victim disputes police claims Taipei Times
From Diallo to Sean Bell NYPD's Death Squads CounterPunch
'My friend is dead' New York Daily News
New York Daily News
all 208 news articles »

NY1 News Forum: Ray Kelly 2006 Disagrees With Ray Kelly 1999
WNBC, NY - 8 hours ago
... the officers involved in the recent police shooting death ... 25 following Bell's bachelor party at a Queens strip ... Mayor Michael Bloomberg has said he thinks this ...
Demonstrators Protest 50-Bullet NYPD Shooting Of Unarmed Groom WNBC
all 25 news articles »
Local Pols Drawn Into Sean Bell’s Spotlight
Queens Chronicle, NY - 21 hours ago
... kept the media’s attention on the Bell shooting, the ... force to push for changes in police tactics. ... group will make its recommendations to Bloomberg and Police ...
Angry Protestors Demonstrate At NYPD Headquarters
WCBS-TV New York, NY - Dec 6, 2006
... "The police walked under Guliani and the police walk under Bloomberg, except Bloomberg has some ... 25 killing of unarmed groom Sean Bell outside a Jamaica ...
Another Police Shooting In New York Hardbeatnews.com
Memorial Service For Fallen Iraqi War Veteran Canarsie Digest
all 7 news articles »
Sean Bell: What justice requires
People's Weekly World - Dec 7, 2006
... be given to the investigation of Sean Bell’s killing ... left to the present leadership of the police department, which ... can it be left to Mayor Bloomberg and the ...
DA Brown Rejects Call To Replace His Office In Bell Shooting Case
Western Queens Gazette, NY - Dec 6, 2006
... in the investigation and had met with Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Police Commissioner Raymond ... other clergy members, a group that also included Sean Bell's parents ...

Xinhua Black community rallies over police shooting
Melbourne Herald Sun, Australia - Dec 7, 2006
... Police have said the officers opened fire on Mr Bell and his ... New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has said it was "unacceptable or inexplicable'' as to how 50 ...
NYPD Chief Told To Quit Over Shooting MyFox Philadelphia
Another death in New York Indianapolis Star
all 45 news articles »
Bloomberg: Police used excessive force in shooting
Daily Herald, UT - Nov 28, 2006
... undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his ... striking him and an undercover police vehicle, Kelly ... Bloomberg also said police appeared to have violated ...
Mayor's response made a difference
New York Daily News, NY - Dec 7, 2006
... Nobody knew who Sean Bell was, where he lived or worked when police opened up on ... Then Mayor Bloomberg called the barrage of bullets that took Bell's life ...
Huh?:scratch:
 

Mr. P

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My husband says he thinks they carry Glock semi-autos... probably with 14 or 15 rounds, maybe more.
Maybe Glock they are widely carried now by LEOs. The magazines come in 10 and 15 round capacity (depending on model). You can get larger but anything larger than 15 would protrude from the butt of the weapon, not good for an undercover cop that must conceal his weapon.
 

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