Zone1 Questioning the Book of Mormon

[Cougarbear]

The word of God explains........we are like "US"...i.e, God because we have the mental capacity/knowledge to know sin from righteousness, there the physical image ends, all that remains is the documented fact that the Spirit if Man is eternal and goes back to God in order to judge. God is eternal.......physical man is not, God is the creator.....man is the created, not to be worshiped, not to become little gods........but to serve the throne of God in heaven after the judgment. Man will always be a servant of God whether alive or dead.....physically or spiritually. (Col. 3:23, Rom. 12:11, Luke 4:8, .......etc, there are some 40+ passages declaring that the duty of man is to serve the Lord)

The created.......man, will never be equal to the Creator God of Heaven.....man will never be worshiped, dead or alive. "For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie; and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, WHO IS BLESSED FOREVER." -- Romans 1:25

You error in doctrine and understanding. It says "We have become as one of US (gods) knowing good and evil. Gen 3:22 does not say we are "like" us. Doesn't say that. Then, in Psalms God said I have said, Ye are gods. Now it goes on to say that even though we are gods, we became as one of them (Godhead) we are and will always be children of our Father in Heaven. Not equal to. Jesus himself reiterated this in John 10:34 when the Sadducees questioned can a man be or become a God? Jesus answered referring to Psalms 82:6, "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law (Psalms 82:6) I SAID, Ye are gods? This also proves Jesus is Jehovah. Read verses 35 and 36 where Jesus calls himself and the rest of us, sons of God. Jesus in particular, The Son of God whom the Father sent into the world to sanctify us and save us from the fall of Adam.

Why do you not accept these verses as truth??? Galatians 5:21 says we can prepare ourselves to inherit the kingdom of God by not being deceived. What is deceiving you.? Who is deceiving you to not accept the above verses as proof we are gods in embryo preparing to inherit all our Father has that he has? It is you who is exchanging the truth for a lie even though this is spelled out right in front of your face in your Bible.

 

[ding]

You can't deny what Christ said John 10:34 and then try to say what he said. You falsebear when you do this. We are correct about everything in our Doctrine. It's all from the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I and we say it with authority.

I can tell you that the belief that the universe was not created from anything existing was known in biblical times.

"I implore you, my child, observe heaven and earth, consider all that is in them, and acknowledge that God made them out of what did not exist, and that mankind comes into being the same way" (2 Macc. 7:28).​

I can tell you that the physical evidence that the universe was not created from anything existing is overwhelming.

Which means it's your interpretation and/or conclusions which are wrong.

 

[ding]

In John 10:34 Jesus was referring to Psalm 82:6 and was not talking about humans. Instead, he was using the metaphor of “gods” to refer to angelic beings, who are sometimes called “gods” in the Old Testament. Jesus was using this text to deflect an accusation of blasphemy from religious leaders who had accused him of calling himself the Son of God.

Jesus was not applying the statement “you are gods” to all humanity or to all believers. He was using the metaphor to expose the ignorance and inconsistency of his accusers.

 

[Clyde 154]

You can't deny what Christ said John 10:34 and then try to say what he said. You falsebear when you do this. We are correct about everything in our Doctrine. It's all from the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I and we say it with authority.

The content and subject matter of John 10 explains itself.............Jesus and the Father are one. Even the Jews comprehended that Jesus was claiming to be God. Notice that when Jesus begins teaching the Jews and declares some of their ancestors were "gods".........the term used is not declaring deity, it uses a small "g", which represents authority; authority to judge the Jews......Jesus is referring to men, those appointed Judges over the Jews, only they were allowed to accept sacrifices in the name of God.....this is explained clearly in PS 82....the very 1st sentence clears up any ambiguity, ".............God stands in the congregation of THE MIGHTY (the appointed Judges of men); He (God) judges among the gods (small "g")........self defining these judges as men.

Jesus was never created, He is the creator, existing before the world and time itself began. God's plan to grant a path to salvation through the birth, life, death and resurrection of HIS ONLY SON existed before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20), or as Paul explained, "....before time began" (Eph. 3:5,6)

Jesus existed BEFORE THE BEGINNING/CREATION.........in fact all of creation. "For by Him (Jesus) all things were created, THAT ARE IN HEAVEN (meaning Jesus preexisted the angels that were created) and that are in the Earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE................" Meaning physical and spiritual -- Col. 1:16

 

[onefour1]

What? Are the scriptures lying when they declare that God speaks through Jesus only? It was Jesus speaking to the church from heaven through the Holy Spirit in the 1st century when these gifts existed. One inspired writing does not contradict another, as all scripture is inspired of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

It was when Jesus came and afterwards that he set up his church as Paul testifies:

1 Corinthians 12:27-31
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

These are not pre-Jesus verses. Jesus set up his church to have Apostles and Prophets and teachers, etc. And as I have already pointed out to you, Paul, a post Jesus Apostle of the Lord, told us that we would have apostles and prophets and teachers, and evangelists for the perfecting of the saints and for the work of the ministry until we all come to a unity of the faith unto a perfect man in Christ Jesus. We have not reached that stage yet. The Church was ongoing with Apostles and Prophets even after Jesus came until it went into a state of Apostasy and necessitated a restoration.

Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The word of God specifically explains that all the signs you mentioned would soon FAIL. When that which is perfect (teleioo') comes (the complete word of God) -- 1 Cor. 13 The Word of God...i.e, the faith was delivered once for all time in the 1st century Jude

You misunderstand the teaching of Paul regarding Charity and other gifts of the spirit. Nowhere does it state that they SOON would fail. And what he meant by fail was that they would be swallowed up into a perfection that would come so that seeing in part and knowing in part would be done away and we would eventually come to a perfection in knowing in full and not needing to prophecy since we would have fullness of knowledge when Christ makes his second coming and we be taught all things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven. He will be in our midst and we will no longer need prophecy and we will have a fullness of the gifts of the spirit. Pauls words are:

1 Corinthians 13:
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

It is then that we will have a fulness of the Lord's blessings.

"Love never ends, As for prophecies, they will pass away, as for tongues (the gift of speaking in another language), they will cease, as for knowledge (supernatural gift), it will pass away." -- 1 Cor. 13:8

Yes, eventually they will pass away. But not until we have Christ in our midst and certain spiritual gift will not be needed. This was not to occur immediately after Christ's death and resurrection since we see that they were had after his death and resurrection among those of the church and it was Paul who taught about having Apostles and Prophets, etc. until we come to that unity of the faith unto the perfection in Christ. Perhaps we will reach that stage when He returns again and establishes His kingdom here on earth during the millennium.

When will these gifts of the Spirit of God end? Each of these gifts were in part......no one possessed all the supernatural gifts, each was given to establish doctrine for the new born church.........once the church was mature, the gifts would cease as they were no longer required. The church/kingdom was made complete in the 1st century when the Word of God......i.,e THE PERFECT came into existence..........in the original tongue of Koine Greek, translates as made whole or complete (teleioo').......the same Greek word used by James when describing the PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY (the completed word of God) -- James 1:24

The church was not perfected in the 1st century. It was established but it eventually fell away into a state of apostacy. Paul taught very clearly that the church with apostles and prophets would be needed until we all came to a unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. Only then would that which is in part would be done away and we would have a fulness of these things. Only then would prophesy end and we would have Jesus in our midst would such things not be needed and only charity would then need to abide. We haven't reached that time and probably will not until Jesus cleanses the earth with fire and only the righteous remain on earth and He dwells amongst us and prophecy is no longer needed but we will have His presence and get the truth straight from His mouth. Until then we still need Apostles and Prophets and the gifts of the spirit to guide us in his paths of righteousness. His Church has been restored in these last days and Apostles and Prophets and the gifts of the spirit are needed until His coming again upon the earth.

"For we (the apostles and saints of the 1st century) know in part and we prophecy in part, BUT WHEN THE PERFECT (TELEIOO') COMES......THE PARTIAL WILL PASS AWAY........." -- 1 Cor. 13:9-10

the PERFECT is Jesus. When He come again the PARTIAL will pass away.

These gifts have ceased..........today, the gifts of the Spirit that remains are "Faith, Hope, and Love", with Love being the greatest of these Spiritual Gifts. -- 1 Cor. 13:13

These gifts have not passed away from a partiality to a fullness until Christ comes again. However, Charity is an eternal trait that will not pass away and should be among us for all eternity.

We are commanded to "rightly" divide the word of Truth. (2 Tim. 2:15) When you present an opinion that ends with one scripture contradicting another.....you are not rightly dividing the word of TRUTH.

There is no contradiction in these verses. Only misunderstanding on the part of mankind. You are misunderstanding the meaning of these verses.

The reason that we are to TEST those who claim to be prophets.........as of today, there is not one documented sign of a true apostle of Christ that exists. All are proven frauds, false prophets when put to the test. If not.........document just one sign of an Apostle of Christ. Make the blind see, the dead raise, the lamb walk, etc., Show us these miraculous signs......if not, your cult is just another example of fraud.
"

Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

 

[Cougarbear]

The content and subject matter of John 10 explains itself.............Jesus and the Father are one. Even the Jews comprehended that Jesus was claiming to be God. Notice that when Jesus begins teaching the Jews and declares some of their ancestors were "gods".........the term used is not declaring deity, it uses a small "g", which represents authority; authority to judge the Jews......Jesus is referring to men, those appointed Judges over the Jews, only they were allowed to accept sacrifices in the name of God.....this is explained clearly in PS 82....the very 1st sentence clears up any ambiguity, ".............God stands in the congregation of THE MIGHTY (the appointed Judges of men); He (God) judges among the gods (small "g")........self defining these judges as men.

Jesus was never created, He is the creator, existing before the world and time itself began. God's plan to grant a path to salvation through the birth, life, death and resurrection of HIS ONLY SON existed before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20), or as Paul explained, "....before time began" (Eph. 3:5,6)

Jesus existed BEFORE THE BEGINNING/CREATION.........in fact all of creation. "For by Him (Jesus) all things were created, THAT ARE IN HEAVEN (meaning Jesus preexisted the angels that were created) and that are in the Earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE................" Meaning physical and spiritual -- Col. 1:16

Are you trying to say that Jesus never said he was God or a God or a member of a Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Ghost?" Look at the reason for Jesus to remind them that they are gods. At the same time, he was telling the religious leaders they did not have authority. That they polluted the priesthood and lost their authority. So, why would Jesus tell them that they are now gods? The small "g" is used because we are not at the level that the Father and the Son are. Why do you replace this with the idea of authority only? Jesus was attacked for saying he is a God. They didn't like that he also reminded them they are gods in embryo if they follow the plan of the Father. In which they were not.

 

[onefour1]

One problem with the concept of sola scriptura (Bible Only) is that God has revealed that in these latter-days there would come forth a stick of Joseph that would be scripture and would be joined with stick of Judah, which is the Bible, and they would be one in the hands of the people. The Stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon.

Ezekiel 37:15-20
15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

 

[SweetSue92]

Chapter 27, Section 1

lifeng.lamost.org

Matter creation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your faith is so wrong about so many things.

Like Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers

And Mormon men will get their own planet, with their wife, in eternity

 

[SweetSue92]

One problem with the concept of sola scriptura (Bible Only) is that God has revealed that in these latter-days there would come forth a stick of Joseph that would be scripture and would be joined with stick of Judah, which is the Bible, and they would be one in the hands of the people. The Stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon.

Ezekiel 37:15-20
15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

Blatantly wrong. This is about Judah and Israel uniting: Ephraim and Manessah, sons of Joseph.

 

[SweetSue92]

I have heard and read a lot of naysayers about the Book of Mormon attacking things like there were no elephants in the days of the Book of Mormon concerning both the Jaradites who came over from the Tower of Babel and the people of Lehi in about 600BC. So, here’s an artifact by Hopewell Indians in America. What say you?

Let me break down Mormonism for those who don't know:

A shyster and sex addict named Joseph Smith peered into a hat with rocks in it and pretended to discover some magical plates. He then psychotically went on to proclaim himself some kind of prophet, enticed perfectly fine people into the scam, and then married many of their underage daughters. Then he got snagged by the law several times.

He found a completely normal "Egyptian Breathing Document"--a funeral document written in hieroglyphics --and proceeded to "interpret" it as the Book of Abraham, as if it were written by Abraham. Come to find out, the entire thing is a lie. Every word is wrong.

I have found Mormons to be lovely people but their religion is false and they are in a cult. Pray for them

 

[onefour1]

Like Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers

And Mormon men will get their own planet, with their wife, in eternity

God our Eternal Father in Heaven had many spirit children. The Firstborn spirit child of the Father was Jesus Christ. Lucifer was also a son of God who was one of the early ones who was born. Thus he was known as a son of the morning. But Lucifer rebelled against the Father and got 1/3 of the hosts of heaven to follow after him. He and his followers were then cast out of heaven into the earth and were denied the opportunity of ever receiving a body of flesh and bones.

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Here we read that Lucifer was a son of the morning and that he fell from heaven. Verse 16 tells us that he is mankind. Jesus, Lucifer, Adam aka Michael, Noah aka Gabriel, and every man and woman born into this world are the spirit children of God. Lucifer has his free will and chose to rebel against God and became Perdition, Satan, the devil, etc. Although his origin was as one of the sons of God, he rebelled against his Father and fell from heaven along with all those who chose to follow after him.

If you read the Bible you may learn that we are the children of God, his very offspring. There are verse that tell us that we should be as perfect as God the Father. There are verses that tell us that we can become one with Him and Jesus just as they are one with each other. So is it really that big of stretch for you to realize that we are capable of becoming just like our Father in Heaven?

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:30-36
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

 

[Robert W]

The creator of Mormonism is a 33rd degree mason.

How could a farm child in a remote part of NY State be a 33rd degree mason?

 

[onefour1]

Blatantly wrong. This is about Judah and Israel uniting: Ephraim and Manessah, sons of Joseph.

I think you need to read the verses again. The sticks are the writings (see verse 20 below). The writings of the house of Judah would come together with the writings of the house of Joseph and become one in their hands.

Ezekiel 37:15-20
15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

The stick of Judah is the Bible. The stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon. They have come together to be one in our hands.

 

[onefour1]

Let me break down Mormonism for those who don't know:

A shyster and sex addict named Joseph Smith peered into a hat with rocks in it and pretended to discover some magical plates. He then psychotically went on to proclaim himself some kind of prophet, enticed perfectly fine people into the scam, and then married many of their underage daughters. Then he got snagged by the law several times.

He found a completely normal "Egyptian Breathing Document"--a funeral document written in hieroglyphics --and proceeded to "interpret" it as the Book of Abraham, as if it were written by Abraham. Come to find out, the entire thing is a lie. Every word is wrong.

I have found Mormons to be lovely people but their religion is false and they are in a cult. Pray for them

A very superficial and shallow understanding of the history of Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham.

Ten pages of History articles on Joseph Smith - Search FAIR

Historicity of the Book of Abraham

New Gospel Topics Essay: "Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham"

A new essay has been posted on the Church’s Gospel Topics website, this time addressing the subject of the translation of the Book of Abraham. The article begins by affirming, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints embraces the book of Abraham as scripture.” What follows is an overview...

www.fairlatterdaysaints.org

 

[SweetSue92]

God our Eternal Father in Heaven had many spirit children. The Firstborn spirit child of the Father was Jesus Christ. Lucifer was also a son of God who was one of the early ones who was born. Thus he was known as a son of the morning.

Satan was a spirit of God?

People, do not accept Mormonism.

RUN

 

[onefour1]

Satan was a spirit of God?

People, do not accept Mormonism.

RUN

Lucifer along with all who participated in the war in heaven were the children of God. But Lucifer, with his free will rebelled against God and turned 1/3 of the hosts of heaven away from God and they became Perdition, Satan, the devil and his messengers. They were then cast out of heaven into the earth and are here tempting us to disobey our Father in Heaven. The name, Lucifer, means light bearer. After his rebellion, God changed his name to Perdition and Satan and he became the devil. Lucifer fell from heaven. What do you suppose his position was before he fell?

 

[SweetSue92]

Lucifer along with all who participated in the war in heaven were the children of God. But Lucifer, with his free will rebelled against God and turned 1/3 of the hosts of heaven away from God and they became Perdition, Satan, the devil and his messengers. They were then cast out of heaven into the earth and are here tempting us to disobey our Father in Heaven. The name, Lucifer, means light bearer. After his rebellion, God changed his name to Perdition and Satan and he became the devil. Lucifer fell from heaven. What do you suppose his position was before he fell?

So says Joseph Smith, notable rock-peerer and sexual deviant.

 

[onefour1]

So says Joseph Smith, notable rock-peerer and sexual deviant.

Your judgement is unrighteous.

 

[Cougarbear]

Let me break down Mormonism for those who don't know:

A shyster and sex addict named Joseph Smith peered into a hat with rocks in it and pretended to discover some magical plates. He then psychotically went on to proclaim himself some kind of prophet, enticed perfectly fine people into the scam, and then married many of their underage daughters. Then he got snagged by the law several times.

He found a completely normal "Egyptian Breathing Document"--a funeral document written in hieroglyphics --and proceeded to "interpret" it as the Book of Abraham, as if it were written by Abraham. Come to find out, the entire thing is a lie. Every word is wrong.

I have found Mormons to be lovely people but their religion is false and they are in a cult. Pray for them

You just lost your argument. No one is going to believe you because you lied about the "Elephant." You could not answer so you go to defamation to try and control the narrative. Sad, really sad. You are a very small person.

 

[SweetSue92]

You just lost your argument. No one is going to believe you because you lied about the "Elephant." You could not answer so you go to defamation to try and control the narrative. Sad, really sad. You are a very small person.

I lied by omission. I didn't bring up the Magic Underwear.