Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[Dante]

How many times are you mentioned in it as an authority?

You need special glasses to be able to read it. The special glasses are called Faith. With Faith you will see it all.

 

[Dante]

Mostly he was denouncing Catholicism, not 'Christianity', hence the use of the term 'priests'; the evangelicals had no 'preists', and Jefferson in fact numbered many ministers and pastors among his friends and supporters. It was evangelicals who got him elected VP and then Prez. You shouldn't have dropped out of 5th grade.

Good gawd!

and

 

[Foxfyre]

This part is incorrect. Connecticut and Massachusetts didn't dis-establish theirs until well into the 19th century, and not due to any Federal law or Supreme Court ruling.

New book traces religious disestablishment in American states from 1776 to 1883

The new book, Disestablishment and Religious Dissent: Church-State Relations in the New American States, 1776-1833, outlines what drove disestablishment of religion in the original 13 states and other early states and territories, challenging conventional wisdom about the causes, writes...

firstamendment.mtsu.edu

Although Massachusetts was the last of the original 13 states officially to disestablish its churches in 1833, the essays in this book reveal that even after states ended such establishments, they often continued to require test oaths and otherwise aided Protestant religion.

This is a more accurate assessment of the history of disestablishment:
....

Editors believe disestablishment reflected religious pluralism of the day, not hostility to religion​

The editors’ fourth finding attributes the support for disestablishment as coming primarily from dissenting Protestants whose stance grew from their interpretations of Scripture and represented the increasing religious pluralism of the day. Far from those who think that the aim of disestablishment was to create a “godless” constitution, the editors believe that such origins “depress claims that disestablishment was forged out of government indifference to religion, or even hostility to it” (p. 12). Dissenters did not anticipate that separation of church and state would require separation of “religion and politics” (p. 12).

Those evil evangelicals like Baptists and Methodists of the First and Second Great Awakenings are the main culprits advocating the establishment clause and later in the states themselves, not the Constitution and the Supreme Court.

I am not familiar with that book but I have studied the history. That people were religious is one thing. That some religious rules lingered into the 19th Century is one thing. That any state was a little theocracy is something else again.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Mostly he was denouncing Catholicism, not 'Christianity',

What does this mean to you?

“That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced.” – letter to William Short, August 4, 1820

“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.” – letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Zone1 - Separation of Church and State?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Mostly he was denouncing Catholicism, not 'Christianity',

Are protestants allowed to rid the Bible of disciples of Jesus. Rid the Bible.of the divinity of Jesus( not believe in the holy Trinity. Not believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to save mankind from original sin.

Are you OK with apostle Paul being the first corrupter of the message of Jesus?

“Paul was the… first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus. These palpable interpolations and falsifications of his doctrines led me to try to sift them apart.” – letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

 

[Picaro]

I am not familiar with that book but I have studied the history. That people were religious is one thing. That some religious rules lingered into the 19th Century is one thing. That any state was a little theocracy is something else again.

Never said they were 'theocracies' ; in those days most education was in the hands of churches, so some states and cities and counties granted them tax authority, and to certain sects that were already running schools and colleges. The fact is the Establishment clause didn't apply to the states. They were dis-established by changing demographics and voters in their own states, not the Feds or the Supreme Court.

 

[Picaro]

What does this mean to you?

“That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced.” – letter to William Short, August 4, 1820

“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.” – letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Zone1 - Separation of Church and State?

So find all this evidence Jefferson ever said he wasn't a Christian. He never said he was a Deist anywhere either. You're just trying to spin a myth out of nothing here. Having unorthodox Christian beliefs was as common as dirt in the colonies. That isn't 'atheism' or 'Deism'. That's why many people came to the colonies in the first place, dissenting beliefs. Duh.

There is a reason why the only 'Founders' out of hundreds the mythologists harp on are two or three, and they can't even cite them without cherry picking and distortion.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

So find all this evidence Jefferson ever said he wasn't a Christian.

What is a Christian to you?

 

[Picaro]

What is a Christian to you?

So you couldn't find anything. Okay, I already knew you wouldn't.

For the Peanut Gallery, here is an essay covering both claims that might of interest.

Did America Have a Christian Founding?

Abstract: Did America have a Christian Founding? This disputed question, far from being only of historical interest, has important implications for how we conceive of the role of religion in the American republic. Mark David Hall begins by considering two popular answers to the query—“Of course...

www.heritage.org

 

[whutTHEYsay]

So find all this evidence Jefferson ever said he wasn't a Christian

Jefferson believed that Jesus Of Nazareth was a mortal human. He was not the son of God. His mother was not a virgin. He did not die and then rise from the dead.

Jefferson believed The so-called Holy Bible was a corruption of the pure, simple deistic teachings of a man named Jesus.

Jefferson did not believe in original sin. He did not believe God sent his only son to Earth to die on the cross, according to Jewish prophecy and become the savior of mankind.

What Is the Jefferson Bible?

Read What Is the Jefferson Bible? by Alyssa Roat and more articles about Bible and Wiki on Christianity.com

www.christianity.com

Jefferson viewed Jesus as strictly human. He also believed that Jesus Himself ascribed to a more deistic belief system. In another letter to Benjamin Rush, he wrote: “I should proceed to a view of the life, character, & doctrines of Jesus, who sensible of incorrectness of their ideas of the Deity, and of morality, endeavored to bring them to the principles of a pure deism.” ( A letter to Benjamin Rush, April 9, 1803, Library of Congress).

Jefferson viewed Jesus as a great moral teacher but believed that His claims to deity and the stories of His miracles were later agenda-driven additions by Jesus’ followers.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

So you couldn't find anything. Okay, I already knew you wouldn't.

For the Peanut Gallery, here is an essay covering both claims that might of interest.

Did America Have a Christian Founding?

Abstract: Did America have a Christian Founding? This disputed question, far from being only of historical interest, has important implications for how we conceive of the role of religion in the American republic. Mark David Hall begins by considering two popular answers to the query—“Of course...

www.heritage.org

From you link:

“It may be objected that Jefferson, the man who drafted the Declaration, was hardly an orthodox Christian, and that is certainly the case.”

That’s a poor scholar. Universally and in common usage of our language, Jefferson was not a Christian in any sense of the word. Jesus Christ was not his Lord and Savior..

 

[whutTHEYsay]

So you couldn't find anything.

Why don’t you answer the simple question. What is a Christian to you?

 

[Foxfyre]

Never said they were 'theocracies' ; in those days most education was in the hands of churches, so some states and cities and counties granted them tax authority, and to certain sects that were already running schools and colleges. The fact is the Establishment clause didn't apply to the states. They were dis-established by changing demographics and voters in their own states, not the Feds or the Supreme Court.

Then you are contradicting yourself in what you posted in Post #551.

 

[Picaro]

Then you are contradicting yourself in what you posted in Post #551.

Having an established religion performing some function in a state is not the same thing as a theocracy. England was never a theocracy, Denmark still has an established state religion, it isn't a theocracy, etc.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

i. Separation of Church and State? 240817 {post•557}. NotfooledbyW Aug’25 Vsocas except by Dr. D’Elia: Everything he [jffrsn] ever wrote on Christianity was vitiated by his puerile understanding of the claims of Revelation and the Incarnation. Deep mysteries like the Trinity, Creation, Original Sin, the Immaculate Conception, the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the Real Presence of Christ he scorned as priestly frauds. nfbw 240817 Vsocas00557

ii. Separation of Church and State? 240817 {post•559}. Picaro said: Mostly he was denouncing Catholicism, not 'Christianity', hence the use of the term 'priests'; pvcvrv 240817 Ssocas00559


iii. Separation of Church and State?240818 {post•576}

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: Dr. D’Elia reports that Jefferson scorned as priestly fraud all of the following Catholic and Protestant tenets of Christianity;

• the claims of Revelation
• the Incarnation.
• the Trinity,
• Creation,
• Original Sin,
• Immaculate Conception,
• Atonement,
• Resurrection,
• Real Presence of Christ” …..

As a white Christian nationalist of the evangelical variety you must believe all the above. Am I correct?

nfbw 240818 Vsoca00576

 

[Picaro]

Why don’t you answer the simple question. What is a Christian to you?

Why not just accept the fact your claims are garbage and you have nothing? The rest of us have Jefferson's owns words and letters, and in any case he wasn't the only Founder, most of the Founders were Christians, including Jefferson and Franklin as well.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why not just accept the fact your claims are garbage and you have nothing?

You provided a link where the writer you picked told you Jefferson was not a Christian.

If you are right, why not answer the question


Why don’t you answer the simple question. What is a Christian to you?

 

[Picaro]

You provided a link where the writer Jefferson was not a Christian.

If you are right, why not answer the question


Why don’t you answer the simple question. What is a Christian to you?

Why not grow up and admit you're wrong and got shot down? You can't refute a thing I said.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Having unorthodox Christian beliefs was as common as dirt in the colonies. That isn't 'atheism' or 'Deism'

Frauds Tucker and Laura distance from T 201130 {post•135} NotfooledbyW Churching of America : Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church: 1776 17% 1850 34% 1860 37% 1870 35% 1890 45% 1906 51% 1916 53% 1926 56% 1952 59% 1980 62% 1995 65% * *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization data“ •••• nfbw 201130 Vftald00135

 

[Picaro]

Frauds Tucker and Laura distance from T 201130 {post•135} NotfooledbyW Churching of America : Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church: 1776 17% 1850 34% 1860 37% 1870 35% 1890 45% 1906 51% 1916 53% 1926 56% 1952 59% 1980 62% 1995 65% * *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization data“ •••• nfbw 201130 Vftald00135

See, you can't even properly refute anything I said. Keep posting last, though, we know you need to.