Send Fighter Jets To The Ukraine.

[krichton]

The F-16's the Ukrainians want are old planes. But they still work pretty good. And we have plenty.

They are indeed old, but far from obsolete. F16s are just as good as a newer generation fight jet outside of the f22 and f35. I don't think the age of the jet is the issue. The US still maintains a small fleet of Harrier jets to give if Ukraine needs them. They also have like 17 Mig 29 fighters. Why won't they hand over those? Who knows. Biden has been swift in offering support, but is slow on fighter jets for some reason.

 

[tahuyaman]

Yes.

Stupid.

 

[KissMy]

Russia Economy Hit the Skids. Record Mortgage Defaults.

 

[dimensional]

They are indeed old, but far from obsolete. F16s are just as good as a newer generation fight jet outside of the f22 and f35. I don't think the age of the jet is the issue. The US still maintains a small fleet of Harrier jets to give if Ukraine needs them. They also have like 17 Mig 29 fighters. Why won't they hand over those? Who knows. Biden has been swift in offering support, but is slow on fighter jets for some reason.

As I was telling somebody else, U.S. pilots faced both Russian and Chinese pilots over both North Korea and North Vietnam. Though they weren't exclusively Russian and Chinese pilots. They trained North Vietnamese pilots too. Both countries provided North Vietnam with many weapons and personnel. Including of course fighter jets. If for no other reason, we should help the Ukraine against Russia in the same way. Maybe not with fighter pilots. But fighter jets, certainly.

 

[dimensional]

Stupid.

I don't need to hear what you say when you look into a mirror.

 

[dimensional]

Russia Economy Hit the Skids. Record Mortgage Defaults.

An economy doesn't mean much to a dictator.

 

[KissMy]

An economy doesn't mean much to a dictator.

LOL - The economic problems appear to be getting to Russian leaders.

Dmitry Medvedev, who served as president from 2008 to 2012 and is now deputy secretary of Russia's Security Council, said the United States had stoked "disgusting" Russophobia in an attempt to force Russia to its knees.

 

[tahuyaman]

I don't need to hear what you say when you look into a mirror.

Children are amusing.

 

[dimensional]

LOL - The economic problems appear to be getting to Russian leaders.

Dmitry Medvedev, who served as president from 2008 to 2012 and is now deputy secretary of Russia's Security Council, said the United States had stoked "disgusting" Russophobia in an attempt to force Russia to its knees.

LOL - The economic problems appear to be getting to Russian leaders.

Dmitry Medvedev, who served as president from 2008 to 2012 and is now deputy secretary of Russia's Security Council, said the United States had stoked "disgusting" Russophobia in an attempt to force Russia to its knees.

Russian leaders are beyond economic problems. As long as they have a nice place to live and plenty to eat, they aren't about to rock the totalitarian boat.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Russian leaders are beyond economic problems. As long as they have a nice place to live and plenty to eat, they aren't about to rock the totalitarian boat.

That's what the Czars thought.

 

[Silver Cat]

I don't think our sending F-16 to the Ukraine would start WW III.

If there is the choice: 1) to lost a conventional war; 2) to win a nuclear war; the Russians definitely choose latter (because Ukraine is much more important for them than Korea, Vietnam and Cuba were for both US and SU).

It may not mean immediate nuclear attack against the USA, but tactical nuclear strikes against Poland and Romania are quite possible.

 

[dimensional]

That's what the Czars thought.

As things turned out, the Czars turned out to be wonderful compared to the Bolsheviks.

 

[dimensional]

If there is the choice: 1) to lost a conventional war; 2) to win a nuclear war; the Russians definitely choose latter (because Ukraine is much more important for them than Korea, Vietnam and Cuba were for both US and SU).

It may not mean immediate nuclear attack against the USA, but tactical nuclear strikes against Poland and Romania are quite possible.

The talk of using nukes is just saber rattling. Russia may want the Ukraine. But they can't think that it is worth destroying the world over.

 

[Silver Cat]

The talk of using nukes is just saber rattling. Russia may want the Ukraine. But they can't think that it is worth destroying the world over.

But the Russians don't think that nuclear war means destroying the world. Their Generals think that if they launch well-prepared counter-force attack against the USA - American retaliation strike will kill less than ten millions of them in the realistic scenario, less than 1 million in the optimistic scenario, and not more than 50 millions even in the pessimistic scenario. Or may be, Americans will search more or less acceptable peace instead of the retaliation. And they have pretty good reasons to think so.

 

[toomuchtime_]

But the Russians don't think that nuclear war means destroying the world. Their Generals think that if they launch well-prepared counter-force attack against the USA - American retaliation strike will kill less than ten millions of them in the realistic scenario, less than 1 million in the optimistic scenario, and not more than 50 millions even in the pessimistic scenario. Or may be, Americans will search more or less acceptable peace instead of the retaliation. And they have pretty good reasons to think so.

In other words you are convinced Russia will lose in Ukraine and you think all this bluster about nuclear weapons will intimidate the West into giving Ukraine to Russia.

 

[Silver Cat]

In other words you are convinced Russia will lose in Ukraine and you think all this bluster about nuclear weapons will intimidate the West into giving Ukraine to Russia.

No. I think, that Russians goals are not about Ukraine only. Ukrainian conflict is a part of European Security Crisis. And European Security Crisis is a part of World's "Multipolarisation". America is weak, and Obama-Biden clique make her weaker.
The USA lost ability to deter Russia by political and economical means. The USA lost ability to deter Russia by proxy-military means. The USA lost ability to deter Russia by a treat of a limited nuclear war (Nuclear Deterrence Type III) in Europe. The USA already lost the ability to prevent Russia's extremely provocative behavior which is not direct attack against America's nuclear forces by the threat of a preemptive counter-force strike (Nuclear Deterrence Type II) , and now Xiden is going to eliminate American ability to prevent Russian direct attack against American nuclear forces by a threat of devastating retaliation (Nuclear Deterrence Type I). Right now the price of the possible Russian counter-force strike against US nuclear forces is roughly 10-20 million casualties. In 2025 this price will be lesser than 1 million.
In one year the Russians lost in Ukraine more soldiers than the USA lost in Vietnam during the whole war, and they still don't care. Why? Because Ukraine is much more important for them than Vietnam, Cuba and Korea together were for the USA. Ordinary American soldier didn't see the difference between Northern and Southern Vietnamese or between Pustuns and Tajiks in Afghanistan, but any Russian easily hear the difference between ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians in Ukraine. What door they see: "the Russians are under attack. We are under attack". The benefits from potential victory in Ukraine and Europe for the Russians are already higher than the price of possible American retaliation. And there is only one party (and few men in it) that can make America great again.

 

[KissMy]

Russian leaders are beyond economic problems. As long as they have a nice place to live and plenty to eat, they aren't about to rock the totalitarian boat.

Putin admits Russia is in Recession.

 

[dimensional]

But the Russians don't think that nuclear war means destroying the world. Their Generals think that if they launch well-prepared counter-force attack against the USA - American retaliation strike will kill less than ten millions of them in the realistic scenario, less than 1 million in the optimistic scenario, and not more than 50 millions even in the pessimistic scenario. Or may be, Americans will search more or less acceptable peace instead of the retaliation. And they have pretty good reasons to think so.

If that is what Russian generals think, they aren't very good at thinking. If they ever used even one nuke on the U.S. or a NATO country, there would be hell to pay.

 

[dimensional]

Putin admits Russia is in Recession.

That's not much of an admission. Many countries often experience recessions. No doubt he also blamed their recession on the U.S. And I heard what I think was his top diplomat at some event where he said that the Ukraine attacked Russia. Lots of the people in the audience openly laughed at him.

 

[Silver Cat]

If that is what Russian generals think, they aren't very good at thinking. If they ever used even one nuke on the U.S. or a NATO country, there would be hell to pay.

But if they used one thousand of nukes - there are pretty good chances to left the situation scot-free (and, may be, even get Alaska and California). Anyway, there is a price of victory and there is the price of defeat. Right now the Russians believe that the price of potential defeat is much more terrible than the price of victory.