Seeing Climate Change Firsthand

[bripat9643]

Sea level increase varies from place to place? Strange, I thought water in a container was at the same height everywhere in the container. How does sea level increase faster in one part of the ocean than in another part?

.

Because of rain, wind and the impact of things like La Nina. Things that are happening in one region, but not in another, like rain.

It is a slightly odd concept, I agree. I thought the same thing when I first heard it.

If it rains more in one spot, then the water flows downhill to the areas where it isn't raining. Did you notice when you filled up your bath tub that there wasn't a hill of water under the spout?

Wind might push water up against a particular coastline, but that would stop the minute the wind stopped. Furthermore, we aren't talking about sea level being slightly different in different locations, the claim is that sea level increases faster in some locations than in others. That claim is absolutely absurd.

 

[orogenicman]

Sea level increase varies from place to place? Strange, I thought water in a container was at the same height everywhere in the container. How does sea level increase faster in one part of the ocean than in another part?

It doesn't work that way with the oceans.

Introduction to Physical Oceanography : Chapter 3 - The Physical Setting - Measuring the Depth of the Ocean

Satellite Altimetry
Gaps in our knowledge of ocean depths between ship tracks have now been filled by satellite-altimeter data. Altimeters profile the shape of the sea surface, and its shape is very similar to the shape of the sea-floor (Tapley and Kim, 2001; Cazenave and Royer, 2001; Sandwell and Smith, 2001). To see this, we must first consider how gravity influences sea level.

The Relationship Between Sea Level and the Ocean's Depth
Excess mass at the sea-floor, for example the mass of a seamount, increases local gravity because the mass of the seamount is larger than the mass of water it displaces. Rocks are more than three times denser than water. The excess mass increases local gravity, which attracts water toward the seamount. This changes the shape of the sea surface (Figure 3.12).

Let's make the concept more exact. To a very good approximation, the sea surface is a particular level surface called the geoid (see box). By definition a level surface is a surface of constant gravitational potential, and it is everywhere perpendicular to gravity. In particular, it must be perpendicular to the local vertical determined by a plumb line, which is "a line or cord having at one end a metal weight for determining vertical direction" (Oxford English Dictionary).

The excess mass of the seamount attracts the plumb line's weight, causing the plumb line to point a little toward the seamount instead of toward Earth's center of mass. Because the sea surface must be perpendicular to gravity, it must have a slight bulge above a seamount as shown in figure 3.12. If there were no bulge, the sea surface would not be perpendicular to gravity. Typical seamounts produce a bulge that is 1–20 m high over distances of 100–200 kilometers. This bulge is far too small to be seen from a ship, but it is easily measured by satellite altimeters. Oceanic trenches have a deficit of mass, and they produce a depression of the sea surface.

The correspondence between the shape of the sea surface and the depth of the water is not exact. It depends on the strength of the sea floor, the age of the sea-floor feature, and the thickness of sediments. If a seamount floats on the sea floor like ice on water, the gravitational signal is much weaker than it would be if the seamount rested on the sea floor like ice resting on a table top. As a result, the relationship between gravity and sea-floor topography varies from region to region.

More at the link.

 

[SSDD]

The peer reviewed science says that your sea level hysterics are in some cases way overblown, and in most cases simply false.

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Paper: Sea Level Rise Not Accelerating (Journal of Geophysical Research - Oceans)



THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: New paper shows sea levels around Australia have declined over the past 7000 years (Quaternary Science Reviews)

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Sea Level Change: The Last 120 Million Years

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Sea levels were much higher and ice sheets less stable 120,000 years ago with 'safe' CO2 levels (Nature Geoscience)

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: New paper finds sea level trends are biased by natural ocean oscillations (Geophysical Research Letters)

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Inconvenient Truth: Sea Level Rise has Decelerated 44% since 2005 (Ocean Science)

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Sea level rise in Southwest Pacific dropped by factor of 6 during latter half of 20th century (Earth and Planetary Science Letters)

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Settled science update: 'Greenhouse gases' don't cause sea level rise (The Journal of Climate)

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: New paper finds sea level rise has greatly decelerated over past 10 years ( Coastal Engineering )

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: New paper shows sea level rise of less than 7 inches per century with no acceleration (Journal of Geophysical Research)

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Analysis finds satellite data has been continuously 'adjusted' to exaggerate sea level rise

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: New paper finds sea level changes since 1950 have been due to natural variability (Climate of the Past)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In Senegal recently I spent a day ptohographing a pelican breeding area for a story I was writing on birdwatching.

For centuries pelicans have returned to a gigantic stretch of land facing the Atlantic ocean on one side, and a lagoon on the other. The area is called Lange De Berberie, or the Tongue of the Berbers.

Except that rising sea levels are eroding the land, and forcing the pelicans elsewhere.

Travelling by boat, we stopped at a small island. Houses stood abandoned and crumbling. Pine trees poked out of the waves. Footpaths veered into the sand.

The previous year, the village had been abandoned entirely, and the familes resettled further south and inland. In all, perhaps a mile of coastland has simply disappeared.

The entire city of St Louis, the oldest French city in Africa, is under threat. Nowhere more than 2 or 3 metres above sea level, waves are already reaching the houses during storms or on spring tides.

Although the rise in sea levels is very slow, it is also constant. The land is very low and sandy, and the waves very powerful along this stretch of coast.

The bigger picture is that St Louis is one city in a very vulnerable area. But almost every major city in Africa is located on the coast. Accra, Dakar, Cape Town, Alexandria and Tunis are all vulnerable too, protected only by dunes and the occasional headland or outcrops of rocks.

Here are a couple of pics...

[/URL] [/IMG]

Yes, I was correct. This is the fault of incompetent government leaders and their "experts". The area was protected by the large sand bar called the Langue de Barbarie and after some storms the typical floods were building (as they have done for centuries) so they got the bright idea of cutting a canal 100 meters long by 4 meters wide to drain the excess.

As anyone with a brain knows, sand doesn't hold together well and now 10 years later, that canal has been blown open to a 2 kilometer wide breach in the sand bar.

Climate change as the cause? No. Idiot experts? Yes...in spades...

That's just so classic. A perfect example of the fraud that is climate "Science"

Thank you for that

They don't even care that they're lying in broad daylight

 

[Toro]

I personally am rooting for global warming.

I have prime property 100 yards from the shore. A degree or two higher, and its beachfront and I'm rich!

 

[PredFan]

In Senegal recently I spent a day ptohographing a pelican breeding area for a story I was writing on birdwatching.

For centuries pelicans have returned to a gigantic stretch of land facing the Atlantic ocean on one side, and a lagoon on the other. The area is called Lange De Berberie, or the Tongue of the Berbers.

Except that rising sea levels are eroding the land, and forcing the pelicans elsewhere.

Travelling by boat, we stopped at a small island. Houses stood abandoned and crumbling. Pine trees poked out of the waves. Footpaths veered into the sand.

The previous year, the village had been abandoned entirely, and the familes resettled further south and inland. In all, perhaps a mile of coastland has simply disappeared.

The entire city of St Louis, the oldest French city in Africa, is under threat. Nowhere more than 2 or 3 metres above sea level, waves are already reaching the houses during storms or on spring tides.

Although the rise in sea levels is very slow, it is also constant. The land is very low and sandy, and the waves very powerful along this stretch of coast.

The bigger picture is that St Louis is one city in a very vulnerable area. But almost every major city in Africa is located on the coast. Accra, Dakar, Cape Town, Alexandria and Tunis are all vulnerable too, protected only by dunes and the occasional headland or outcrops of rocks.

Here are a couple of pics...

[/URL] [/IMG]

OMG! The climate CHANGES?????

 

[jon_berzerk]

In Senegal recently I spent a day ptohographing a pelican breeding area for a story I was writing on birdwatching.

For centuries pelicans have returned to a gigantic stretch of land facing the Atlantic ocean on one side, and a lagoon on the other. The area is called Lange De Berberie, or the Tongue of the Berbers.

Except that rising sea levels are eroding the land, and forcing the pelicans elsewhere.

Travelling by boat, we stopped at a small island. Houses stood abandoned and crumbling. Pine trees poked out of the waves. Footpaths veered into the sand.

The previous year, the village had been abandoned entirely, and the familes resettled further south and inland. In all, perhaps a mile of coastland has simply disappeared.

The entire city of St Louis, the oldest French city in Africa, is under threat. Nowhere more than 2 or 3 metres above sea level, waves are already reaching the houses during storms or on spring tides.

Although the rise in sea levels is very slow, it is also constant. The land is very low and sandy, and the waves very powerful along this stretch of coast.

The bigger picture is that St Louis is one city in a very vulnerable area. But almost every major city in Africa is located on the coast. Accra, Dakar, Cape Town, Alexandria and Tunis are all vulnerable too, protected only by dunes and the occasional headland or outcrops of rocks.

Here are a couple of pics...

[/URL] [/IMG]

OMG! The climate CHANGES?????

that is surprising

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I personally am rooting for global warming.

I have prime property 100 yards from the shore. A degree or two higher, and its beachfront and I'm rich!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0tuAJkbUWU]Obama Promises The World - YouTube[/ame]

Obama hates people getting rich

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Global Warming Climate Change melted that

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You don't have to travel to Africa to see the changes.

I and many here in Maine who pay attention to the flora and fauna have noted changes in plant life and animal life in the last couple decades.

Right now the changes seem benign/

One tiny comment I'd like to make. I don't believe in global warming, Editec. However change is a different story I think. Heres why: Atlanta had very cold weather about a week ago, E , it was 46 degrees or thereabouts for 3 days and people had to wear their coats. How is that possible in August? It isn't. They say that hasn't happened in a 100 yrs. I don't think it happened a 100 yrs ago either. I think someone is telling lies. There is no logical explanation for 46 degrees in Atlanta 3 days straight in the Middle of August. That is my comment and now I'll go before the Arrows start flying. - Jeri

 

[westwall]

In Senegal recently I spent a day ptohographing a pelican breeding area for a story I was writing on birdwatching.

For centuries pelicans have returned to a gigantic stretch of land facing the Atlantic ocean on one side, and a lagoon on the other. The area is called Lange De Berberie, or the Tongue of the Berbers.

Except that rising sea levels are eroding the land, and forcing the pelicans elsewhere.

Travelling by boat, we stopped at a small island. Houses stood abandoned and crumbling. Pine trees poked out of the waves. Footpaths veered into the sand.

The previous year, the village had been abandoned entirely, and the familes resettled further south and inland. In all, perhaps a mile of coastland has simply disappeared.

The entire city of St Louis, the oldest French city in Africa, is under threat. Nowhere more than 2 or 3 metres above sea level, waves are already reaching the houses during storms or on spring tides.

Although the rise in sea levels is very slow, it is also constant. The land is very low and sandy, and the waves very powerful along this stretch of coast.

The bigger picture is that St Louis is one city in a very vulnerable area. But almost every major city in Africa is located on the coast. Accra, Dakar, Cape Town, Alexandria and Tunis are all vulnerable too, protected only by dunes and the occasional headland or outcrops of rocks.

Here are a couple of pics...

[/URL] [/IMG]

Yes, I was correct. This is the fault of incompetent government leaders and their "experts". The area was protected by the large sand bar called the Langue de Barbarie and after some storms the typical floods were building (as they have done for centuries) so they got the bright idea of cutting a canal 100 meters long by 4 meters wide to drain the excess.

As anyone with a brain knows, sand doesn't hold together well and now 10 years later, that canal has been blown open to a 2 kilometer wide breach in the sand bar.

Climate change as the cause? No. Idiot experts? Yes...in spades...

That's just so classic. A perfect example of the fraud that is climate "Science"

Thank you for that

They don't even care that they're lying in broad daylight

Frank,

They've been lying for so long they don't know how not too anymore. It is an essential part of their lives now...

 

[orogenicman]

You don't have to travel to Africa to see the changes.

I and many here in Maine who pay attention to the flora and fauna have noted changes in plant life and animal life in the last couple decades.

Right now the changes seem benign/

One tiny comment I'd like to make. I don't believe in global warming, Editec. However change is a different story I think. Heres why: Atlanta had very cold weather about a week ago, E , it was 46 degrees or thereabouts for 3 days and people had to wear their coats. How is that possible in August? It isn't. They say that hasn't happened in a 100 yrs. I don't think it happened a 100 yrs ago either. I think someone is telling lies. There is no logical explanation for 46 degrees in Atlanta 3 days straight in the Middle of August. That is my comment and now I'll go before the Arrows start flying. - Jeri

Who said anything about weather being logical? It's weather, dude.

 

[westwall]

You don't have to travel to Africa to see the changes.

I and many here in Maine who pay attention to the flora and fauna have noted changes in plant life and animal life in the last couple decades.

Right now the changes seem benign/

One tiny comment I'd like to make. I don't believe in global warming, Editec. However change is a different story I think. Heres why: Atlanta had very cold weather about a week ago, E , it was 46 degrees or thereabouts for 3 days and people had to wear their coats. How is that possible in August? It isn't. They say that hasn't happened in a 100 yrs. I don't think it happened a 100 yrs ago either. I think someone is telling lies. There is no logical explanation for 46 degrees in Atlanta 3 days straight in the Middle of August. That is my comment and now I'll go before the Arrows start flying. - Jeri

Jeri,

If it's a fact it's a fact. There is no question the world warms and cools. That is a natural cycle that has been going on for billions of years. The question is whether man has any impact on the natural cycles.

One thing the fraudsters are really good at is ignoring facts. Here's a global warming fact...
for 75% of this planets history there has been no snow or ice at the poles. Imagine that....
the planet is normally so warm that there is no snow or ice at the north and south poles.

So, ultimately the question we should be asking is why is the planet so cold at this point in time? Because based on historical fact we are currently colder than we should be...

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes, I was correct. This is the fault of incompetent government leaders and their "experts". The area was protected by the large sand bar called the Langue de Barbarie and after some storms the typical floods were building (as they have done for centuries) so they got the bright idea of cutting a canal 100 meters long by 4 meters wide to drain the excess.

As anyone with a brain knows, sand doesn't hold together well and now 10 years later, that canal has been blown open to a 2 kilometer wide breach in the sand bar.

Climate change as the cause? No. Idiot experts? Yes...in spades...

That's just so classic. A perfect example of the fraud that is climate "Science"

Thank you for that

They don't even care that they're lying in broad daylight

Frank,

They've been lying for so long they don't know how not too anymore. It is an essential part of their lives now...

What I don't guys --- is that SAIGON was TOLD this (by WestWall) in another thread a day or so ago..

What kind of person IGNORES a real plausible explanation for this "disaster" and then GOES AND CREATES A NEW OP BASED ON A LIE???
Saigon didn't defend the assertion in the other thread.. And now doesn't defend it here in his OWN thread...

More than lying.. There's a deeper pathology goin on here..
His trip to Senegal reminds me of the escorted tours of N. Korea, where the govt minders TELL YOU what you are seeing...
Breaching that sandbar on purpose was probably their way of submitting the AGW compensation bill to the UN for payment..

 

[Saigon]

Sea level increase varies from place to place? Strange, I thought water in a container was at the same height everywhere in the container. How does sea level increase faster in one part of the ocean than in another part?

.

Because of rain, wind and the impact of things like La Nina. Things that are happening in one region, but not in another, like rain.

It is a slightly odd concept, I agree. I thought the same thing when I first heard it.

If it rains more in one spot, then the water flows downhill to the areas where it isn't raining. Did you notice when you filled up your bath tub that there wasn't a hill of water under the spout?

Wind might push water up against a particular coastline, but that would stop the minute the wind stopped. Furthermore, we aren't talking about sea level being slightly different in different locations, the claim is that sea level increases faster in some locations than in others. That claim is absolutely absurd.

It might sound absurd, but it is quite true.

Think about a massive storm brewing in the Gulf of Mexico - it picks up ocean water from evaporation, its winds also push massive amounts of water towards Texas, and then it dumps all of that rain over, say, Arkansas.

Eventually that will all balance out again, but obviously for some time the sea level is going to be lower in the Gulf, higher in Texas, and rising just off Arkansas (as the rainflows back into the sea). Hence measuring sea level rises isn't as simple as it may seem.

 

[Saigon]

Flac -

The deliberate breach in the peninsula was made to drain the rising sea levels around the island of St Louis. It failed, and actually made the situation worse.

However, it is not the CAUSE of rising sea levels, nor does it prove that sea levels are NOT rising. They are, and have been measured to be rising.

The reason I didn't respond to this earlier is because it is so obviously ared herring and I guessed most people were smart enough to see through it. Unfortunately you weren't.

I also have the Broken Wall on ignore mode for obvious reasons. You should too.

His trip to Senegal reminds me of the escorted tours of N. Korea, where the govt minders TELL YOU what you are seeing...

Really? In what way?

 

[Saigon]

They haven't risin with any significance is the point. So stop your stupid fear-mongering that the oceans are going to swell up and destroy all coastal cities. Are we supposed to feel sorry for people that built their shit right at sea level? Well I don't, its the risk you take when you want to live or build property thats just a few inches above sea level right on a coast line.

Who said seas would "swell up and destroy all coastal cities"?

I don't see anyone saying that, implying that, or saying anything even remotely like that. It's nonsense.

Forget the red herrings and strawmen - just look at the info, and deal with that.

Sea level sare not rising 10 feet per day - this is a slow, gradual rise that may only become visible for most people 20 years from now, maybe not for another 50 years in some places.

But, if you are buying or selling seafront property, or putting down a well or looking at areas where seabirds breed, it's an issue any smart person will give some thought to.

 

[westwall]

Flac -

The deliberate breach in the peninsula was made to counter the rising sea levels around the island of St Louis.

It failed, and actually made the situation worse. However, it is not the CAUSE of rising sealevels, nor does it prove that sea levels are NOT rising. They are, and have been measured to be rising.

The reason I didn't respond to this earlier is because it is so obviously ared herring and I guessed most people were smart enough to see through it. Unfortunately you weren't.

His trip to Senegal reminds me of the escorted tours of N. Korea, where the govt minders TELL YOU what you are seeing...

Really? In what way?

NO IT WASN"T. They breached the sand bar to provide a more direct avenue for the Senegal river to flow to the sea and not flood the urban area which it has been doing for CENTURIES.

More to the point why on earth would you breach a sand bar to "counter rising seal levels"? Do you have any idea how ridiculous a statement that is?

It absolutely defies reason and common sense.

 

[Saigon]

They breached the sand bar to provide a more direct avenue for the Senegal river to flow to the sea and not flood the urban area which it has been doing for CENTURIES.

Exactly.

Although actually the breach is DOWNSTREAM from the city, not above it.

Keep in mind that there are three areas of land here, separated by two streams of the river, with the sea meeting the outermost area of land, the Langue de Berberie. That is the strip of land being inundated by the rising sea levels, meaning the city is losing its ancient protective shield, so to speak.

So what exactly are you disputing?

 

[westwall]

They breached the sand bar to provide a more direct avenue for the Senegal river to flow to the sea and not flood the urban area which it has been doing for CENTURIES.

Exactly.

Although actually the breach is DOWNSTREAM from the city, not above it.

So what exactly are you disputing?

You just got caught in TWO lies saggy. First you claimed you had me on ignore and second you claimed that rising sea level was the reason which is absolute bullcrap. The water flows into the estuary and backs up (well it did) till it can drain out to the sea. They thought they could speed up the draining process by cutting the canal.

Now, the bar is being destroyed and it no longer provides a barrier to the ocean as it had for over 700 years so the big rollers can come in and erode the beach which they weren't able to do prior to the boneheaded decision. No doubt promulgated by some IPCC dipshit.

Once again you demonstrate a complete lack of scientific knowledge, and a willingness to lie through your teeth to try and save face.

You fail on both accounts.