Sean Penn: The "Malvinas"

[California Girl]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

British were negotiating to give the Falklands back..

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So, gosh, you mean they were willing to sell out the sheepherders? Really.

Incidently, the notion that Argentina never owned the Malvinas is also disputable. The United Provinces held soverignty over the Islands in 1829 until the British took them in 1833.

No, it means they gave the islanders the democratic right to determine their own future. The islanders voted to remain under Britain. Or do you not understand what 'self-determination' means? Twit.

It means exactly what I said it means. There was a scenario where they were negotiating in good faith to turn the Islands over... largely over international pressure. (Kind of tough, half the UN being former British colonies who don't like them all that much).

Now, politically that became impossible, leading to a war that was really up their in the annals of human stupidity... but hey, as long as the rich can order the poor to go off and die and the poor keep putting up with it, that's what you are going to get.

From what I've seen from the welcome received by the British Royal Family this year as they have visited the Commonwealth countries... that claim that their former colonies are not fond of the British is just a tad ridiculous.

Creating your own version of reality is a habit for you, Joey.... but it never works well for you.

 

[JoeB131]

From what I've seen from the welcome received by the British Royal Family this year as they have visited the Commonwealth countries... that claim that their former colonies are not fond of the British is just a tad ridiculous.

Creating your own version of reality is a habit for you, Joey.... but it never works well for you.

Well, they aren't getting their car attacked, I guess that's something...

But you think there isn't a lot of them who are holding grudges... you're delusional.

 

[JoeB131]

An Overview of British History, Society and Fiscal Affairs by JoeAmpad

- It takes six months to get treated for cancer in the UK

- The British government "gave" Hong Kong to the Chinese, a communist regime which harvests the organs of its citizens for sale

- The UK was negotiating to give away the Falklands to Argentina

- Britain is broke. That's why there were riots.

- The British don't like the NIH.

Still stalking me, Homo?

Just pointing out your many errors.

And is "Homo" supposed to be an insult? That's so 20th century. A bigot AND a homophobe, are we?

No, man, I just wonder about this weird obsession you have with me... it's kind of like stalking, and it's weird, really.

 

[California Girl]

From what I've seen from the welcome received by the British Royal Family this year as they have visited the Commonwealth countries... that claim that their former colonies are not fond of the British is just a tad ridiculous.

Creating your own version of reality is a habit for you, Joey.... but it never works well for you.

Well, they aren't getting their car attacked, I guess that's something...

But you think there isn't a lot of them who are holding grudges... you're delusional.

Wishful thinking is not fact.

 

[Toro]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

You said "treatment," not diagnosis.

Frankly, if I were someone waiting six months for cancer treatment,

Fail.

British were negotiating to give the Falklands back..

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whilst maintaining the British claim for sovereignty, the British Government considered transfer of sovereignty worthy of improved relations with Argentina...This led to the British Government maintaining a position that the right to self-determination of the Islanders was paramount. In return, Argentina did not recognise the rights of the Islanders and so negotiations on the sovereignty issue effectively remained at a stalemate

So, gosh, you mean they were willing to sell out the sheepherders? Really.

Incidently, the notion that Argentina never owned the Malvinas is also disputable. The United Provinces held soverignty over the Islands in 1829 until the British took them in 1833.

The British were not negotiating to hand over the Falklands to Argentina. It has been the policy of the British government for decades to allow self-determination for its colonies. If the Falklanders wanted to remain in Britain, then they would be allowed to do so, but if they wanted to leave, then they would leave. But they weren't negotiating the transfer of the Falklands to Argentina.

Perhaps you should have quoted the entire passage, since you left out the relevant parts.

Although the sovereignty discussions had some success in establishing economic and transport links between the Falklands and Argentina, there was no progress on the question of sovereignty of the Islands.

Whilst maintaining the British claim for sovereignty, the British Government considered transfer of sovereignty worthy of improved relations with Argentina. However, the British Government had limited room for manoeuvre owing to the strength of the Falkland Islands lobby in the Houses of Parliament. Any measure that the Foreign Office suggested on the sovereignty issue was loudly condemned by the Islanders, who re-iterated their determination to remain British. This led to the British Government maintaining a position that the right to self-determination of the Islanders was paramount. In return, Argentina did not recognise the rights of the Islanders and so negotiations on the sovereignty issue effectively remained at a stalemate.

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's good to know that you think we should sell out Americans to incompetent, undemocratic tyrants because that's what you are saying the British should do.

 

[Toro]

Still stalking me, Homo?

Just pointing out your many errors.

And is "Homo" supposed to be an insult? That's so 20th century. A bigot AND a homophobe, are we?

No, man, I just wonder about this weird obsession you have with me... it's kind of like stalking, and it's weird, really.

Point out bigotry, hypocrisy and factual errors isn't a weird obsession. You know what is a weird obsession? Making lists of Mormons so you can discriminate against them and never have to do business with them because they're Mormons.

 

[JoeB131]

From what I've seen from the welcome received by the British Royal Family this year as they have visited the Commonwealth countries... that claim that their former colonies are not fond of the British is just a tad ridiculous.

Creating your own version of reality is a habit for you, Joey.... but it never works well for you.

Well, they aren't getting their car attacked, I guess that's something...

But you think there isn't a lot of them who are holding grudges... you're delusional.

Wishful thinking is not fact.

Indeed. You should try it some time.

Tell me, ummmm, why were the UN resolutions on the issue so watered down at the time? You'd think if the UK were so well loved, the Argentinian's actions would be as roundly condemned as Saddam's invasion of Kuwait. But all they got was a resolution calling for negotiations...

United Nations Security Council Resolution 502 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Nations Security Council Resolution 505 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not exactly a "Argentina Bad, Britian Good".

Actually, more like a "Argentina Stupid, Britian Stupid" kind of thing, which it was...

 

[JoeB131]

Point out bigotry, hypocrisy and factual errors isn't a weird obsession. You know what is a weird obsession? Making lists of Mormons so you can discriminate against them and never have to do business with them because they're Mormons.

Wow, really. I have the power to "discriminate".

I wish.

Incidently, the few times I broke my rules, I've regretted it. For instance, I never read anything by Orson Scott Card because he's a particularly retarded Mormon. But I actually did read Ender's Game. Just confirmed my viewpoint.

(I read it because there was a discussion about it on a message board, so I decided to see what all the fuss was about. And it was just so badly written, it was embarrassing.)

 

[Colin]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .
BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

British were negotiating to give the Falklands back..

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whilst maintaining the British claim for sovereignty, the British Government considered transfer of sovereignty worthy of improved relations with Argentina...This led to the British Government maintaining a position that the right to self-determination of the Islanders was paramount. In return, Argentina did not recognise the rights of the Islanders and so negotiations on the sovereignty issue effectively remained at a stalemate

So, gosh, you mean they were willing to sell out the sheepherders? Really.

Incidently, the notion that Argentina never owned the Malvinas is also disputable. The United Provinces held soverignty over the Islands in 1829 until the British took them in 1833.

Rather than quote statistics from a study conducted five years ago perhaps you should listen to someone who experienced just how long waiting times are. Last February I peed blood. Within one week I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. I was admitted immediately for removal of the tumour. After biopsy it was found to be deep seated and agressive. within two weeks I was back in hospital for removal of my bladder. I suggest you confine yourself to worrying about the state of your own country and leave British issues to the Brits. You'll then avoid making yourself look an even bigger twat than you are.

As for your constant bleating that the British were about to hand over the Falklands, I suggest you read it again. This would only ever have happened if the Argentinians had guaranteed self-determination for the islanders. They wouldn't so there was never a sitauation where we were about to hand over the islands. Clearly you are unfamiliar with the word 'negotiations'.

Anyway. Thanks for the entertainment. It's not often that someone is as willing as you to prove to all and sundry just how pig ignorant they are, but I do understand the technique of twisting facts to suit one's own political agenda. Do feel free to keep...

 

[Colin]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

You said "treatment," not diagnosis.

Frankly, if I were someone waiting six months for cancer treatment,

Fail.

British were negotiating to give the Falklands back..

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So, gosh, you mean they were willing to sell out the sheepherders? Really.

Incidently, the notion that Argentina never owned the Malvinas is also disputable. The United Provinces held soverignty over the Islands in 1829 until the British took them in 1833.

The British were not negotiating to hand over the Falklands to Argentina. It has been the policy of the British government for decades to allow self-determination for its colonies. If the Falklanders wanted to remain in Britain, then they would be allowed to do so, but if they wanted to leave, then they would leave. But they weren't negotiating the transfer of the Falklands to Argentina.

Perhaps you should have quoted the entire passage, since you left out the relevant parts.

Although the sovereignty discussions had some success in establishing economic and transport links between the Falklands and Argentina, there was no progress on the question of sovereignty of the Islands.

Whilst maintaining the British claim for sovereignty, the British Government considered transfer of sovereignty worthy of improved relations with Argentina. However, the British Government had limited room for manoeuvre owing to the strength of the Falkland Islands lobby in the Houses of Parliament. Any measure that the Foreign Office suggested on the sovereignty issue was loudly condemned by the Islanders, who re-iterated their determination to remain British. This led to the British Government maintaining a position that the right to self-determination of the Islanders was paramount. In return, Argentina did not recognise the rights of the Islanders and so negotiations on the sovereignty issue effectively remained at a stalemate.

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's good to know that you think we should sell out Americans to incompetent, undemocratic tyrants because that's what you are saying the British should do.

Thanks for filling in those blanks, Toro. Amazing what lengths of deviousness some will employ in an attempt to prop up their agenda.

Message for JoeB. Nice to know what a devious snake you are!

 

[JoeB131]

Colin - You know, guy, you can go along with all the legal niceties, but the fact remains, there were diplomats in a room ready to sell the sheepherders out.

Incidently, I'm glad to hear your treatment for cancer went well. Both of my parents succumbed to cancer, so I know how hard that can be.

 

[JoeB131]

It's good to know that you think we should sell out Americans to incompetent, undemocratic tyrants because that's what you are saying the British should do.

Thanks for filling in those blanks, Toro. Amazing what lengths of deviousness some will employ in an attempt to prop up their agenda.

Message for JoeB. Nice to know what a devious snake you are!

Not at all- cherry picking certain lines doesn't take away from the fact the British were willing to sell the sheepherders out for hte right price.

But it was an ass-poundingly stupid thing to fight a war over...

 

[JoeB131]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

You said "treatment," not diagnosis.

Frankly, if I were someone waiting six months for cancer treatment,

Fail.



The British were not negotiating to hand over the Falklands to Argentina. It has been the policy of the British government for decades to allow self-determination for its colonies. If the Falklanders wanted to remain in Britain, then they would be allowed to do so, but if they wanted to leave, then they would leave. But they weren't negotiating the transfer of the Falklands to Argentina.

Perhaps you should have quoted the entire passage, since you left out the relevant parts.

It's good to know that you think we should sell out Americans to incompetent, undemocratic tyrants because that's what you are saying the British should do.

The parts I left out aren't "relevent" at all. Point was. There were negotiations to transfer soverignty.. That they became politically impossible doesn't mean that there weren't negotiations.

And, uh, yeah, the point is that the distance between diagnosis and treatment was long, I wasn't even counting in the time between "Hey, I think I might have a problem" and getting in.

So what you are saying is you now support the President's plan, since you think socialized medicine is wonderful and all? I mean, it's hard to keep up here, guy...

 

[Colin]

It's good to know that you think we should sell out Americans to incompetent, undemocratic tyrants because that's what you are saying the British should do.

Thanks for filling in those blanks, Toro. Amazing what lengths of deviousness some will employ in an attempt to prop up their agenda.

Message for JoeB. Nice to know what a devious snake you are!

Not at all- cherry picking certain lines doesn't take away from the fact the British were willing to sell the sheepherders out for hte right price.

But it was an ass-poundingly stupid thing to fight a war over...

I thought you were done with this thread. Think what you will. However, the fact remains that there was never any consideration for a sell out. It has always been about self-determination for the Falklanders. It matters not that you can't accept it, but they're the facts. And it was never, nor would it be about 'the right price'. Oh and the way you edited the section from Wiki was a clear attempt to distort.

By the way. Your stylus is stuck in the groove.

 

[Colin]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

You said "treatment," not diagnosis.

Frankly, if I were someone waiting six months for cancer treatment,

Fail.



The British were not negotiating to hand over the Falklands to Argentina. It has been the policy of the British government for decades to allow self-determination for its colonies. If the Falklanders wanted to remain in Britain, then they would be allowed to do so, but if they wanted to leave, then they would leave. But they weren't negotiating the transfer of the Falklands to Argentina.

Perhaps you should have quoted the entire passage, since you left out the relevant parts.

It's good to know that you think we should sell out Americans to incompetent, undemocratic tyrants because that's what you are saying the British should do.

The parts I left out aren't "relevent" at all. Point was. There were negotiations to transfer soverignty.. That they became politically impossible doesn't mean that there weren't negotiations.

And, uh, yeah, the point is that the distance between diagnosis and treatment was long, I wasn't even counting in the time between "Hey, I think I might have a problem" and getting in.

So what you are saying is you now support the President's plan, since you think socialized medicine is wonderful and all? I mean, it's hard to keep up here, guy...

Kindly do not put words into my mouth! I have no interest in your president or his politics...unless they happen to affect my country. Thanks for exposing yet another of your devious attempts to master a thread. When are you going to at least attempt to rise to your own level of substandard?

 

[JoeB131]

I thought you were done with this thread. Think what you will. However, the fact remains that there was never any consideration for a sell out. It has always been about self-determination for the Falklanders. It matters not that you can't accept it, but they're the facts. And it was never, nor would it be about 'the right price'. Oh and the way you edited the section from Wiki was a clear attempt to distort.

By the way. Your stylus is stuck in the groove.

Point was, you guys claimed there were no negotiations.

I pointed out that there were...

Going into why the British Government let a few thousand sheepherders dictate policy (probably actually BP, but you no doubt want the illusion of democracy) wasn't relevent.

But as long as the rich can get the poor to fight wars for them, you will have this situation..

Wasn't always like this. Once upon a time, the Rich actually used to fight their own wars, in both our countries. You were rich, you formed regiments and armed them, and you were expected to go out and fight with the boys.

Interesting fact my British Colleague told me at that conference. That 80% of the Elite SAS troops come from the poor slums of Edinburgh...

Hmmmmmm....

 

[JoeB131]

You said "treatment," not diagnosis.



Fail.



The British were not negotiating to hand over the Falklands to Argentina. It has been the policy of the British government for decades to allow self-determination for its colonies. If the Falklanders wanted to remain in Britain, then they would be allowed to do so, but if they wanted to leave, then they would leave. But they weren't negotiating the transfer of the Falklands to Argentina.

Perhaps you should have quoted the entire passage, since you left out the relevant parts.

It's good to know that you think we should sell out Americans to incompetent, undemocratic tyrants because that's what you are saying the British should do.

The parts I left out aren't "relevent" at all. Point was. There were negotiations to transfer soverignty.. That they became politically impossible doesn't mean that there weren't negotiations.

And, uh, yeah, the point is that the distance between diagnosis and treatment was long, I wasn't even counting in the time between "Hey, I think I might have a problem" and getting in.

So what you are saying is you now support the President's plan, since you think socialized medicine is wonderful and all? I mean, it's hard to keep up here, guy...

Kindly do not put words into my mouth! I have no interest in your president or his politics...unless they happen to affect my country. Thanks for exposing yet another of your devious attempts to master a thread. When are you going to at least attempt to rise to your own level of substandard?

I was responding to Toro, not you. I would say sorry for the confusion, but it was pretty obvious I was responding to Toro, a Romney supporter who is only for socialized medicine when Republicans suggest it.

 

[Colin]

I thought you were done with this thread. Think what you will. However, the fact remains that there was never any consideration for a sell out. It has always been about self-determination for the Falklanders. It matters not that you can't accept it, but they're the facts. And it was never, nor would it be about 'the right price'. Oh and the way you edited the section from Wiki was a clear attempt to distort.

By the way. Your stylus is stuck in the groove.

Point was, you guys claimed there were no negotiations.

I pointed out that there were...

Going into why the British Government let a few thousand sheepherders dictate policy (probably actually BP, but you no doubt want the illusion of democracy) wasn't relevent.

But as long as the rich can get the poor to fight wars for them, you will have this situation..

Wasn't always like this. Once upon a time, the Rich actually used to fight their own wars, in both our countries. You were rich, you formed regiments and armed them, and you were expected to go out and fight with the boys.

Interesting fact my British Colleague told me at that conference. That 80% of the Elite SAS troops come from the poor slums of Edinburgh...

Hmmmmmm....

Really? Where did I say that? I suggest you refer to my posts number 120 and 126 where I stated the following!

No. The UK was NOT negotiating to turn them over to Argentina! Both parties were responding to a UN resolution to conduct negotiations to find a peaceful solution to the issue of sovereignty. No common ground was ever found even after seventeen years of on/off talks and to this day, the UK position is that the Islands remain British for as long as the islanders consider themselves British.

As a result of a UN resolution, Britain and Argentina were asked attempt to find a peaceful solution to the question of sovereignty. They spent seventeen years arguing the toss and neither side could find common ground. There was never a time when Britain could be regarded as 'happy to give the islands away'. That is a fabrication from the distorted mind of a know nothing fool.

As for your statement about the SAS, your friend is wrong. Most of those who pass the SAS selection course are from the Parachute Regiment. As an ex Para I can assure you that whilst there are Scots in the regiment, they certainly don't constitute anywhere near 80% of the intake.

Why on earth do you insist on digging yourself deeper?

 

[California Girl]

I thought you were done with this thread. Think what you will. However, the fact remains that there was never any consideration for a sell out. It has always been about self-determination for the Falklanders. It matters not that you can't accept it, but they're the facts. And it was never, nor would it be about 'the right price'. Oh and the way you edited the section from Wiki was a clear attempt to distort.

By the way. Your stylus is stuck in the groove.

Point was, you guys claimed there were no negotiations.

I pointed out that there were...

Going into why the British Government let a few thousand sheepherders dictate policy (probably actually BP, but you no doubt want the illusion of democracy) wasn't relevent.

But as long as the rich can get the poor to fight wars for them, you will have this situation..

Wasn't always like this. Once upon a time, the Rich actually used to fight their own wars, in both our countries. You were rich, you formed regiments and armed them, and you were expected to go out and fight with the boys.

Interesting fact my British Colleague told me at that conference. That 80% of the Elite SAS troops come from the poor slums of Edinburgh...

Hmmmmmm....

Really? Where did I say that? I suggest you refer to my posts number 120 and 126 where I stated the following!

No. The UK was NOT negotiating to turn them over to Argentina! Both parties were responding to a UN resolution to conduct negotiations to find a peaceful solution to the issue of sovereignty. No common ground was ever found even after seventeen years of on/off talks and to this day, the UK position is that the Islands remain British for as long as the islanders consider themselves British.

As a result of a UN resolution, Britain and Argentina were asked attempt to find a peaceful solution to the question of sovereignty. They spent seventeen years arguing the toss and neither side could find common ground. There was never a time when Britain could be regarded as 'happy to give the islands away'. That is a fabrication from the distorted mind of a know nothing fool.

As for your statement about the SAS, your friend is wrong. Most of those who pass the SAS selection course are from the Parachute Regiment. As an ex Para I can assure you that whilst there are Scots in the regiment, they certainly don't constitute anywhere near 80% of the intake.

Why on earth do you insist on digging yourself deeper?

Wait! What? That 'interesting fact' was neither interesting nor a fact? Wow. I can't believe that Joey got it wrong.... again.

 

[Toro]

Colin - You know, guy, you can go along with all the legal niceties, but the fact remains, there were diplomats in a room ready to sell the sheepherders out.

Not without self-determination.

Fail. Again.