Science Channel Acknowledges Major Racial Differences

[Ariux]

What was the name of the program? I would like to see it.

In summery, the show asks if there are genetic differences in intelligence between races and then it basically answers the question with a lie, by suggesting there's not. The show's title is "Is There a Superior Race?" But, in the show, the question doesn't mean white vs. black, it means now vs. the future.

 

[Samson]

The real question is what do we do about it. If we continue to ignore the differences, and tolerate the myth that the environment and white racism cause black poverty, then we will move forward down the path of social destruction. A large part of the federal government's welfare policies are directed at trying to overcome low black IQ. Obama's belief that blacks are victims of white American society - so-called critical race theory - drives his fanatical goal of transforming America. I believe the sane thing to do is to acknowledge racial differences in IQ - particularly between blacks and whites - and then devise solutions that do not contain as their premise the promise that someday it will lead to equal racial outcomes.

Well, you're obviously an idiot.

First stupid comment was, "if we continue to ignore the differences."

Who is ignoring differences? I gave you the link to the fucking 2010 US CENSUS which breaks practically every nuance of the population, including POVERTY into RACIAL terms, and you think someone is "ignoring the differences?"

Second stupid comment was, "myth of environment .....causes black poverty." Hey, moron, POVERTY IS THE ENVIRONMENT OF BLACKS. Again, pay the fuck attention to census results. It will require reading skills that you possibly do not possess.

Finally, this idiotic proposition; "A large part of the federal government's welfare policies are directed at trying to overcome low black IQ." Asside from being nonsensical, and supported by nothing except your own limited imagination, it is simply false: Welfare policies are directed at trying to overcome POVERTY, you goddamn bonehead.

First, I meant that if we continue to ignore the genetic differences, which I thought was clear from the context in which I made the statement but evidently not. To put it another way, ignoring the genetic basis of IQ differences will continue to cause more problems than it solves.

Second, many blacks live in poverty, just as many whites do, but poverty is not the cause of lower average black IQ. The myth that it does is the real problem we must overcome.

Third, you are correct, welfare is aimed at poverty in general, and many whites suffer its effects just as blacks do, but the evolution of a multi-generational welfare class innately dependent upon govenrment largesse is rooted in the urgent need to address the inability of a high percentage of blacks to thrive in a free market system.

Finally, as to your nasty case of Tourettes, do not despair, effective treatments are available:

Tourette's Syndrome Treatment Overview

Your blithering equivocations are much appreciated.

 

[Ariux]

Well, to continue the ACT analogy: Males and Females have about the same average scores.

Your analogy is invalid. Men and women have different (complimentary) brains so tests can be rigged to close the gap. Afros just have smaller and simpler brains than whites, so tests can't be rigged to close the gap.

Also, your facts are wrong, males have higher ACT scores than females, in spite of females having higher grades (i.e. females are more compliment with the feminized educational process). Men are smarter than women (e.g. men have six times as much gray matter than females).

Male vs. female SAT scores, 1970 through 1997
Male ....................|19.5 |19.3 |19.3 |19.1 |19.3 |19.4 |19.6 |19.5 |19.6 |19.3 | 21.0 | 20.9 | 20.9 | 21.0 | 20.9 | 21.0 | 21.0 | 21.1
Female .................|17.8 |17.9 |17.8 |17.6 |17.9 |17.9 |18.1 |18.1 |18.1 |18.0 | 20.3 | 20.4 | 20.5 | 20.5 | 20.7 | 20.7 | 20.8 | 20.8

 

[Samson]

Well, to continue the ACT analogy: Males and Females have about the same average scores.

Your analogy is invalid. Men are smarter than women (e.g. men have six times as much gray matter than females).

Male vs. female SAT scores, 1970 through 1997
Male ....................|19.5 |19.3 |19.3 |19.1 |19.3 |19.4 |19.6 |19.5 |19.6 |19.3 | 21.0 | 20.9 | 20.9 | 21.0 | 20.9 | 21.0 | 21.0 | 21.1
Female .................|17.8 |17.9 |17.8 |17.6 |17.9 |17.9 |18.1 |18.1 |18.1 |18.0 | 20.3 | 20.4 | 20.5 | 20.5 | 20.7 | 20.7 | 20.8 | 20.8

Hearing the arguments of the fatally stupid is why I love the internets.

Keep it up.

 

[Flopper]

Much of the research quoted in this topic comes from the "Bell Curve" which is based on research funded by the Pioneer Fund, which is frequently described as racist and "white supremacist" in nature.

The Pioneer Fund was described by the Sunday Telegraph (March 12, 1989) as a "neo-Nazi organization closely integrated with the far right in American politics." It has also been criticized by some scientists and journalists, and in various peer-reviewed academic articles.

Wickliffe Preston Draper, heir to a large fortune and the fund's de facto final authority, served on the Board of Directors from 1937 until 1972. He founded the Pioneer Fund after having acquired an interest in the Eugenics movement, which was strengthened by his 1935 visit to Nazi Germany, where he met with the leading eugenicists of the Third Reich who used the inspiration from the American movement as a basis for the Nuremberg Laws.

Racism Resurgent
Pioneer Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bell Curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Samson]

Much of the research quoted in this topic comes from the "Bell Curve" which is based on research funded by the Pioneer Fund, which is frequently described as racist and "white supremacist" in nature.

The Pioneer Fund was described by the Sunday Telegraph (March 12, 1989) as a "neo-Nazi organization closely integrated with the far right in American politics." It has also been criticized by some scientists and journalists, and in various peer-reviewed academic articles.

Wickliffe Preston Draper, heir to a large fortune and the fund's de facto final authority, served on the Board of Directors from 1937 until 1972. He founded the Pioneer Fund after having acquired an interest in the Eugenics movement, which was strengthened by his 1935 visit to Nazi Germany, where he met with the leading eugenicists of the Third Reich who used the inspiration from the American movement as a basis for the Nuremberg Laws.

Racism Resurgent
Pioneer Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bell Curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I linked to your wiki article about the "Bell Curve," assuming I would get a dissertation on statistical analysis that accounts for the shape of a distribution curve.

Instead the article was about a book, The Bell Curve which sounds fascinating:

The Bell Curve argues that:
1.Intelligence exists and is accurately measurable across racial, language, and national boundaries.

2.Intelligence is one of, if not the most, important factors correlated to economic, social, and overall success in the United States, and its importance is increasing.

3.Intelligence is largely (40% to 80%) heritable.

4.No one has so far been able to manipulate IQ to a significant degree through changes in environmental factors—except for child adoption and that they conclude is not large in the long term—and in light of these failures, such approaches are becoming less promising.

5.The USA has been in denial of these facts. A better public understanding of the nature of intelligence and its social correlates is necessary to guide future policy decisions

Weirdly, you quoted the, "Sunday Telegraph?" Why?

Aside from the response from one media source, there are many academic and professional (APA) groups that have published their opinions about The Bell Curve.

Certainly the conclusion of the book is interesting: The USA is becomming more like Latin America.

 

[Flopper]

Much of the research quoted in this topic comes from the "Bell Curve" which is based on research funded by the Pioneer Fund, which is frequently described as racist and "white supremacist" in nature.

The Pioneer Fund was described by the Sunday Telegraph (March 12, 1989) as a "neo-Nazi organization closely integrated with the far right in American politics." It has also been criticized by some scientists and journalists, and in various peer-reviewed academic articles.

Wickliffe Preston Draper, heir to a large fortune and the fund's de facto final authority, served on the Board of Directors from 1937 until 1972. He founded the Pioneer Fund after having acquired an interest in the Eugenics movement, which was strengthened by his 1935 visit to Nazi Germany, where he met with the leading eugenicists of the Third Reich who used the inspiration from the American movement as a basis for the Nuremberg Laws.

Racism Resurgent
Pioneer Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bell Curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I linked to your wiki article about the "Bell Curve," assuming I would get a dissertation on statistical analysis that accounts for the shape of a distribution curve.

Instead the article was about a book, The Bell Curve which sounds fascinating:

The Bell Curve argues that:
1.Intelligence exists and is accurately measurable across racial, language, and national boundaries.

2.Intelligence is one of, if not the most, important factors correlated to economic, social, and overall success in the United States, and its importance is increasing.

3.Intelligence is largely (40% to 80%) heritable.

4.No one has so far been able to manipulate IQ to a significant degree through changes in environmental factors—except for child adoption and that they conclude is not large in the long term—and in light of these failures, such approaches are becoming less promising.

5.The USA has been in denial of these facts. A better public understanding of the nature of intelligence and its social correlates is necessary to guide future policy decisions

Weirdly, you quoted the, "Sunday Telegraph?" Why?

Aside from the response from one media source, there are many academic and professional (APA) groups that have published their opinions about The Bell Curve.

Certainly the conclusion of the book is interesting: The USA is becomming more like Latin America.

It's not this research that's objectionably to so many, it's the application of that research to change the genetic composition of a population. This has taken many forms such as limiting the birth of children with "inferior" traits, banning mixed marriages, sterilization, and genocide.

Applying Eugenics invariable leads to denial of personal freedoms, from the freedom to select one's mate to the freedom to just exist.

 

[Emanamana]

However, according to the latest US Census, the average Female Householder (no spouse present) makes an average of $29K while her Male counterpart makes $41K. This leads one to consider that it might be more than ACT performance (academic potential) that seperates the financial success of races.
Of course, its their choice and Choice effects outcome, women choose jobs with a more flexible Schedule and work less hours, in contrast men work more dangerous jobs which tend to pay better and work more hours for the same job and thus men receive a bonus more often then women.
--------------------------------
Can anyone give an example of a woman being paid less than a man for the same job, with the same qualifications?

 

[MHunterB]

In ca 1973, Hengerer's department store in greater Buffalo, NY. Female sales clerks were paid $2.10/hr - males were paid $2.25/hr. Same job, same 'seniority' & experience.

Of course this was a 'nonunion' shop, yes....

 

[William Joyce]

It's not this research that's objectionably to so many, it's the application of that research to change the genetic composition of a population. This has taken many forms such as limiting the birth of children with "inferior" traits, banning mixed marriages, sterilization, and genocide.

Applying Eugenics invariable leads to denial of personal freedoms, from the freedom to select one's mate to the freedom to just exist.[/B]

Every time an ugly dude is turned down by a hot girl in a bar, that's eugenics at work.

Eugenics are about improving the quality of human beings. If you want to deny that some humans are higher-quality than others, go for it. But nobody believes it. Fact is, some humans are faster, stronger, smarter, prettier and just plain nicer than others.

For me to oppose welfare, which promotes the breeding of the shittier brands of humanity, does not deny anyone personal freedom. Actually, it improves my own.

And yes, some races are crappier than others. Race-mixing generally does lower the quality of humanity, especially when whites breed down with blacks and browns.

Of course eugenics can go to freaky levels that are no good. But the opposite -- no eugenics -- produces results that are just as horrifying. The truth is that the sine qua non of a decent society is decent people to make up that society. Without that, it doesn't matter what policies are in place... you're going to be living in hell.

 

[GodSaveAmerica]

What was the name of the program? I would like to see it.

In summery, the show asks if there are genetic differences in intelligence between races and then it basically answers the question with a lie, by suggesting there's not. The show's title is "Is There a Superior Race?" But, in the show, the question doesn't mean white vs. black, it means now vs. the future.

Actually, I think that they pretty strongly suggest that differences in racial intelligence do exist, but then try to attenuate the message by insinuating that it will not matter in the future as communication devices become more integrated into our daily lives and weave us all into some kind of matrix. Exactly how this is supposed to work they do not say. Myself, I think the effects of racial differences will exacerbate as technologies become more complex and divide the smart from the not so smart.

At one point, they show Linda Gottfredson depicting different bell curves for black, whites and Asians, including the 70 IQ average for Africans and 85 for American blacks. They also compare two different breeds of dogs showing one breed more intelligent than the other, suggesting that races of humans could have different levels of IQ as well. Then they really delve deep, and reveal that scientists have so far identified 100 different genes known to play a role in brain development that evolved among Caucasians after the two races separated 50,000 years ago.

Ergo, blacks and whites have different alleles (gene versions) for brain development. These 100 genes that they are currently aware of are probably the tip of the ice-berg, since as many as 10,000 genes are involved in human brain development. I am certain they will be discovering more as geneticists continue identifying the role of specific genes in brain development. They do not broach the effects of epigenetic factors on racial differences in brain development, which are probably as important as gene differences.

In short, as a result of separate evolutionary histories, and distinctive gene pools, black and white brains are probably as different as the exterior anatomical differences that we can see, if not more so. Would this account for the persistent difference in racial IQ averages? I don't think that there is any question about it.

 

[Ariux]

At one point, they show Linda Gottfredson depicting different bell curves for black, whites and Asians, including the 70 IQ average for Africans and 85 for American blacks. They also compare two different breeds of dogs showing one breed more intelligent than the other, suggesting that races of humans could have different levels of IQ as well.

The show argues that dogs can have different intelligence because the breeds have been isolated. The show claims that doesn't apply to people.

When the show depicts those bell curves for various races, it does so in the sand. And, then it undraws those curves while providing commentary that the environment produces those curves.

Yes, the show does speak of genetic differences between races, but doesn't reach any conclusions from that.

In short, as a result of separate evolutionary histories, and distinctive gene pools, black and white brains are probably as different as the exterior anatomical differences that we can see, if not more so. Would this account for the persistent difference in racial IQ averages? I don't think that there is any question about it.

For you and I, there's no question about it. I believe the intent of the show was to raise this issue and then to subtly dismiss it out of hand as a factor in racial IQ variation.

 

[Emanamana]

IQ tests test one's ability to learn; college education and "coaching" have little influence on the outcome.

 

[Emanamana]

In ca 1973, Hengerer's department store in greater Buffalo, NY. Female sales clerks were paid $2.10/hr - males were paid $2.25/hr. Same job, same 'seniority' & experience.

Of course this was a 'nonunion' shop, yes....

Do you have a link?

Does anyone have a RECENT example of a woman being paid less for the same job with the same qualifications/experience, etc.?

 

[Ariux]

Every time an ugly dude is turned down by a hot girl in a bar, that's eugenics at work.

Eugenics are about improving the quality of human beings. If you want to deny that some humans are higher-quality than others, go for it. But nobody believes it. Fact is, some humans are faster, stronger, smarter, prettier and just plain nicer than others.

For me to oppose welfare, which promotes the breeding of the shittier brands of humanity, does not deny anyone personal freedom. Actually, it improves my own.

And yes, some races are crappier than others. Race-mixing generally does lower the quality of humanity, especially when whites breed down with blacks and browns.

Of course eugenics can go to freaky levels that are no good. But the opposite -- no eugenics -- produces results that are just as horrifying. The truth is that the sine qua non of a decent society is decent people to make up that society. Without that, it doesn't matter what policies are in place... you're going to be living in hell.

I don't oppose welfare. I just think it should come with strings attached... or at least tied.

 

[BBCAmerica]

Every time I hear this debate one name comes to mind that is never mentioned. Every since the start of testing statistics blacks have tested lower than whites. Never in one instance can you find a group of black students that test as well as white students. As the years go on the black students scores go up and down while the whites stay pretty much steady. This has been chalked up to blacks have lower intelligence than whites. Even blacks who get the same education test lower than whites, so what other explanation can there be? Enter Goeffery Canada and the Promise Academy. Canada took black 4th grade students that tested lower than average BLACK students. By 8th grade these same students out preformed EVERYONE!!!! Even the white students. Now Mr Canada has the educational world on it's head they are all running around trying find the reason he can take the worst students and make them the best. The Brookings institute did a study trying to debunk Mr Canada but they did 1 grade at 1 school the Harvard study was much more accurate and over a 4 year period. It showed progress and end result. So I guess if you that the PA's results with students.


Analyses
Dr. Fryer was able to obtain access to the New York City Department of Education data for Promise
Academy lottery applicants, regardless of their participation status. The requirement for a Promise
Academy entrance lottery affords an opportunity to compare the achievement of Promise Academy
attendees and non-attendees. The elementary school cohort was of particular interest to us, as these
students had spent their whole scholastic careers at Promise Academy (and many had also attended HCZ
early childhood programs).
In short order, he combined the lottery data HCZ provided with achievement, attendance, and grade
retention information from the DOE into a series of regression analyses. Dr. Fryer and his assistant, Will
Dobbie, used a variety of statistical models to examine all of these data.
To help contextualize our results, it is useful to know that effect sizes for interventions tend to be small.
For example, studies on small class size have found effect sizes around .22. In contrast, the racial
achievement gap is between .64 and .70 standard deviations in math and around .40 in ELA at school
entiy.
Dr. Fryer investigated performance of Promise Academy applicants over time, comparing their fourth
through eighth grade test results to those of white and black students citywide. More specifically, the test
results of (1) students who were accepted into Promise Academy and attended (compliers), (2) applicants
who were not accepted into Promise Academy and did not attend (non-compliers), (3) white students in
New York City, and (4) black students in New York City are presente
The following charts present historical mathematics test score data for Promise Academy students and for
several peer groups who were in the eighth grade in 2007-2008. The second chart differs from the first
only with regard to NYC white students: the first chart shows basic performance of all white students
while the second shows the results adjusted for socio-economic status (in general, white students have
more positive socio-economic indicators than black students).
Mean Test Scores by Treatment Status
Math results
U)
0
U
.1:
4O
Mean Test Scores by Treatment Status
Math results
IJLf)
0
U
0)
4-so
N
I!
4 5 6 7 8
Grade
ZOOS Conliers 2005 Contro' Conçers
Avg White A Ra
4 6 7 8
Grade
ZOOS Compiir 2005 Control Conrs
Peg Mj White A 2ackAs both charts show, middle school students who entered the school in 2005 started far below the city
mean (which is indicated by a 0 on the chart), about .75 standard deviations behind New York City white
students, and slightly below black students in the 4th grade (before entry into Promise Academy, which
began at sixth grade). Over time, while NYC white and black students showed fiat performance from 4k"
to 8th grade, PA students experienced large improvements from year to year and were outperforming
white students by the 8thl grade (this is particularly true when we compare our students to the results of
NYC white students adjusted for socio-economic status)

I like G Canada but you have to actually look at what he did. he threw out the first cohort and many of the teachers after the first year of his experiment and it proved that he was serious about only accepting striving students and parents, and dedicated teachers. he also extended school hours.

two things stand out, at least to me. first the program cant be scaled up to include everyone. second, it is not clear to me that students receiving 50% more instruction should be compared to regular schools.

I am not saying anything bad about Canada, or the Harlem project. just be informed about the actual conditions involved.

What about the fact that the gap is not there when testing home schooled children? As far as the length of the classes, does it really make a difference? Supposedly Asians go to school much longer than we do but that is almost never talked about. Only how much smarter they are than us.

 

[Emanamana]

What about the fact that the gap is not there when testing home schooled children? As far as the length of the classes, does it really make a difference? Supposedly Asians go to school much longer than we do but that is almost never talked about. Only how much smarter they are than us.
-----------------------

Who is "US"?

BTW, BBC, please substantiate your statement (highlighted).

 

[Flopper]

It's not this research that's objectionably to so many, it's the application of that research to change the genetic composition of a population. This has taken many forms such as limiting the birth of children with "inferior" traits, banning mixed marriages, sterilization, and genocide.

Applying Eugenics invariable leads to denial of personal freedoms, from the freedom to select one's mate to the freedom to just exist.[/B]

Every time an ugly dude is turned down by a hot girl in a bar, that's eugenics at work.

Eugenics are about improving the quality of human beings. If you want to deny that some humans are higher-quality than others, go for it. But nobody believes it. Fact is, some humans are faster, stronger, smarter, prettier and just plain nicer than others.

For me to oppose welfare, which promotes the breeding of the shittier brands of humanity, does not deny anyone personal freedom. Actually, it improves my own.

And yes, some races are crappier than others. Race-mixing generally does lower the quality of humanity, especially when whites breed down with blacks and browns.

Of course eugenics can go to freaky levels that are no good. But the opposite -- no eugenics -- produces results that are just as horrifying. The truth is that the sine qua non of a decent society is decent people to make up that society. Without that, it doesn't matter what policies are in place... you're going to be living in hell.

Of course there are differences in people and there's nothing wrong with rejecting an individual because they don't measure up. However, there is something very wrong about rejecting someone not because of their own qualities but because they are part of a group deemed to be inferior. It's the quality of the individual not the group that's important.

 

[Ariux]

What about the fact that the gap is not there when testing home schooled children? As far as the length of the classes, does it really make a difference? Supposedly Asians go to school much longer than we do but that is almost never talked about. Only how much smarter they are than us.

I don't know if your home school claim is correct. But, if it's true, at least two factors must be at play. These home schoolers must be 8th-grade or below. 8th-grade represents the ceiling of Afro potential. Secondly, extraordinary effort or selection must be at hand. It would be exceptional Afro parents who would tackle home schooling.

 

[IanC]

two things stand out, at least to me. first the program cant be scaled up to include everyone. second, it is not clear to me that students receiving 50% more instruction should be compared to regular schools.

I am not saying anything bad about Canada, or the Harlem project. just be informed about the actual conditions involved.

Oddly, the one thing that did not stand out for you was that black academic success happened at all regardless of "actual" conditions.

Any conditional difference means that the intellectual potential exists REGARDLESS OF CONDITIONS!

please be careful that you dont confuse what I say with what you think I said.

actual conditions? one of the findings for smaller class sizes was that while everybody was improved, the more able students improved more. this led to a wider disparity than before.

if you took a group of black inner city kids (with motivated parents) and another group of white kids, put them in a school with top notch teachers and enhanced curriculum, and tested to find the amount of improvement, what do you think the results would look like? personally I think that both groups would improve but that the kids with higher levels of intelligence would make the most improvement. got that? the intelligence matters, not the race. unfortunately black kids have lower group intelligence so they probably would lag yet again.

if you compared 100 black IQ100 kids against 100 white IQ85 kids, what do you think the results would look like? I think the black IQ100 kids would do better!