School Time-Out Rooms?

[manifold]

When I saw this link, I was expecting to find just another wussification of America's youth story, but boy was I surprised. This is messed up right here. A time-out is supposed to be for a few minutes, maybe 10-15, not 3 friggin hours.

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — After failing to finish a reading assignment, 8-year-old Isabel Loeffler was sent to the school's time-out room — a converted storage area under a staircase — where she was left alone for three hours.

The autistic Iowa girl wet herself before she was finally allowed to leave.

Appalled, her parents removed her from the school district and filed a lawsuit.

The Associated Press: Experts question benefit of school time-out rooms

 

[AllieBaba]

Schools, particularly grade and junior highs, are cesspools where the dregs of humanity are allowed access to our kids.

I had a junior high principal grab me by the throat and shove me down the hall, because I refused to stay after school for questioning him about his treatment of my brother.

 

[random3434]

When I saw this link, I was expecting to find just another wussification of America's youth story, but boy was I surprised. This is messed up right here. A time-out is supposed to be for a few minutes, maybe 10-15, not 3 friggin hours.




The Associated Press: Experts question benefit of school time-out rooms

Good, I am glad the parents are suing the school. What they did to that little girl is a form of abuse.

There are so many people who should be held accountable for this it boggles my mind. How did the school let something like this happen? Why wasn't she supervised by an adult? Why didn't they let her go to the restroom? A child with autism has a hard time being still, it's in their wiring to make a lot of movements.

Seriously, I am LIVID right now after reading this.

 

[manifold]

Seriously, I am LIVID right now after reading this.

Hey, I'm with ya. And I'm usually a heartless prick.

 

[cjcord]

I am the mother of an autistic child. on the outskirts of the spectrum actually, meaning he functions quite well, he just has trouble processing things. Sometimes children need time outs. Even autistic ones. But there is a long standing unwritten rule on time outs. One minute for each year of the child's life; i.e.,- a two year old gets two minutes, a five year old, 5. Some children have explosive personalities, which means that when they are being most disruptive, the child MUST be removed from the general area of the disruption. Time out rooms are made for this.

The story you linked to is in no way a normal example of the time out room usage. The link shows a clear abuse case, and the parents are correct in taking legal action. But I think the thread title is misleading. It leads the reader to assume that time out rooms are bad. They aren't. But like everything else, it can be abused.

 

[Luissa]

When I saw this link, I was expecting to find just another wussification of America's youth story, but boy was I surprised. This is messed up right here. A time-out is supposed to be for a few minutes, maybe 10-15, not 3 friggin hours.




The Associated Press: Experts question benefit of school time-out rooms

It is terrible either way but the fact she was autistic makes it even worse.

 

[MalibuMan]

And the lady who left her kid in the car for hours and the kid died got off scott free.

You can go to jail for doing that same thing to your dog.

Whats up with that?

 

[William Joyce]

Two words: Home school.

 

[Gem]

DISCLAIMER: I THINK WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS GIRL IS CRIMINAL AND THAT HER PARENTS ARE CORRECT FOR TAKING LEGAL ACTION! I THINK WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS GIRL IS CRIMINAL AND THAT HER PARENTS ARE CORRECT FOR TAKING LEGAL ACTION! I THINK WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS GIRL IS CRIMINAL AND THAT HER PARENTS ARE CORRECT FOR TAKING LEGAL ACTION!

That being said - I do think that this incident, and other incidents like it (there was another case of a primary student being arrested for an outburst in her elementary classroom recently) are indicative of a growing problem.

While some here are pointing to negative experiences they have had with one or two educators as evidence that school officials are out of control...the truth is that the vast majority of teachers and administrators are simply individuals who have chosen to make their careers teaching and helping young people...and who find themselves in increasingly challenging situations with no good or easy solutions.

It may turn out that leaving students in this "time out room" for hours at a time was standard...if so, this school should be sued and people should be prosecuted. But, far more likely, is that the child was forgotten when classes changed, other students required attention, and the day carried on...IT IS STILL SHOCKING AND WRONG...but I'm not sure I'm quite ready to proclaim the school Marquis De Sade Elementary School instead of - overworked, overwrought school without proper procedures in place to make sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen.

I teach in a very well reputed school. It receives awards and is THE district to move into. Even with all of our positives...we are still dealing with students who are increasingly disruptive and unruly...increasingly large populations of special education students with needs far greater than can be met by one aide per 3 or 4 kids...parents who call to try to get teachers fired because they "humiliated" their child, but having them miss a free period to do work that they didn't complete at home...etc.

Again...please re-read my disclaimer...I'm not saying that the school in question doesn't need to face some major investigations for what happened...what I am saying is that I feel this article is only a highlight of the increased difficulties schools are having in how to discipline students while still maintaining a positive learning environment.

 

[Gunny]

For all of you exclaiming your righteous indignation, I have a question ...

What is it that you folks think can be done to your precious darlings to enforce discipline?

I'm not saying that I agree with this particular instance, nor form of punishment, but it DOES lead to the root question I just voiced.

My autograph adorns half the (now retired -- some retired by overuse on me I'm sure!) paddles in South Texas and South Florida. I can think of few instances where I didn't do my best to earn those licks.

Everyone demands a learning environment, but schools/teachers have pretty much been emasculated as far as instilling discipline and good order; both, requirements to establish the learning environment.

In other words, you want to have your cake and eat it too. So I'd like to hear from the "don't touch my blameless little angel" crowd some REALISTIC possible solutions.

 

[random3434]

For all of you exclaiming your righteous indignation, I have a question ...

What is it that you folks think can be done to your precious darlings to enforce discipline?

I'm not saying that I agree with this particular instance, nor form of punishment, but it DOES lead to the root question I just voiced.

My autograph adorns half the (now retired -- some retired by overuse on me I'm sure!) paddles in South Texas and South Florida. I can think of few instances where I didn't do my best to earn those licks.

Everyone demands a learning environment, but schools/teachers have pretty much been emasculated as far as instilling discipline and good order; both, requirements to establish the learning environment.

In other words, you want to have your cake and eat it too. So I'd like to hear from the "don't touch my blameless little angel" crowd some REALISTIC possible solutions.

Well, first of all this child has autism. Sometimes those students react to things differently, and too much stimuli in the classroom can set them off.

Now, for your run of the mill trouble maker who doesn't give a shit about school and thinks he/she can run things in the classroom, yeah, paddling may be affective. We had it in my school when I started there 12 years ago, trust me it wasn't pretty to watch. The screams and cries by Mr. Tough Guy, but you bet he never ran his fat mouth again in class. It was taken away, now we have a detention room where the kids go, which is supervised by a teacher all day, and they do school work the entire time they are there.

Then you have the parents who thinks Johnny/Susie can do no wrong. They threaten calling the school board and such, because there is NO WAY their little angel has any behavior problems.......


Now, I work with Mildly Mentally Handicapped, Learning Disabled, Students with Autism and Emotionally Disturbed children, all in one classroom, without an assistant. I use behavior modification techniques with them, and it works most of the time. The thing is, I treat them with respect and love, and in return they give it back in the classroom. Sometimes the simple things work too.

 

[Gunny]

Well, first of all this child has autism. Sometimes those students react to things differently, and too much stimuli in the classroom can set them off.

Now, for your run of the mill trouble maker who doesn't give a shit about school and thinks he/she can run things in the classroom, yeah, paddling may be affective. We had it in my school when I started there 12 years ago, trust me it wasn't pretty to watch. The screams and cries by Mr. Tough Guy, but you bet he never ran his fat mouth again in class. It was taken away, now we have a detention room where the kids go, which is supervised by a teacher all day, and they do school work the entire time they are there.

Then you have the parents who thinks Johnny/Susie can do no wrong. They threaten calling the school board and such, because there is NO WAY their little angel has any behavior problems.......


Now, I work with Mildly Mentally Handicapped, Learning Disabled, Students with Autism and Emotionally Disturbed children, all in one classroom, without an assistant. I use behavior modification techniques with them, and it works most of the time. The thing is, I treat them with respect and love, and in return they give it back in the classroom. Sometimes the simple things work too.

As I stated, I don't necessarily agree with this particular instance, it just led me to the bigger question.

Of course it's pretty callous to treat someone with special needs in a manner that does not recognize those needs. However, what I didn't see is, was this child in a school for children with special needs? Or a public school? IMO, THAT makes a huge difference. If the child was in a special needs school I would be FAR more unforgiving of someone not treating the child in accordance with those needs than in a public school where Joe Ignorant Average is the teacher and after reading two paragraphs on autism is the "school expert."

 

[editec]

I suppose you kneejerking liberals are going to complain about the school policy of time-out waterboarding, too.

Liberal attitudes like these are is why our children have no respect for authority.

 

[random3434]

As I stated, I don't necessarily agree with this particular instance, it just led me to the bigger question.

Of course it's pretty callous to treat someone with special needs in a manner that does not recognize those needs. However, what I didn't see is, was this child in a school for children with special needs? Or a public school? IMO, THAT makes a huge difference. If the child was in a special needs school I would be FAR more unforgiving of someone not treating the child in accordance with those needs than in a public school where Joe Ignorant Average is the teacher and after reading two paragraphs on autism is the "school expert."

A child with any disability has a thing called an IEP (Individualized Education Plan)
It is written with the child's academic and behavior needs (if needed) and is to be followed by LAW. If not, then there can be all sorts of repercussions.

A child has to be serviced by a special needs teacher so many minutes in the school day. A lot of general ed. teachers have special needs kids in their classroom, but are not trained in teaching the students in the way that best fits the child. It's a Catch-22, I won't bore you with all the details.

3 hours is WAY too long for a time-out for any child, from what I understand she was left alone in there too, only being checked on from time to time,and not allowed to go to the bathroom. THAT is wrong for ANY child!



Uh, did I answer your question?

 

[random3434]

I suppose you kneejerking liberals are going to complain about the school policy of time-out waterboarding, too.

Liberal attitudes like these are is why our children have no respect for authority.

Did you ever paddle any of your trouble makers editec?

 

[Gunny]

I suppose you kneejerking liberals are going to complain about the school policy of time-out waterboarding, too.

Liberal attitudes like these are is why our children have no respect for authority.

Just a tad on the overkill side, don't you think?

 

[Gunny]

A child with any disability has a thing called an IEP (Individualized Education Plan)
It is written with the child's academic and behavior needs (if needed) and is to be followed by LAW. If not, then there can be all sorts of repercussions.

A child has to be serviced by a special needs teacher so many minutes in the school day. A lot of general ed. teachers have special needs kids in their classroom, but are not trained in teaching the students in the way that best fits the child. It's a Catch-22, I won't bore you with all the details.

3 hours is WAY too long for a time-out for any child, from what I understand she was left alone in there too, only being checked on from time to time,and not allowed to go to the bathroom. THAT is wrong for ANY child!



Uh, did I answer your question?

Next question though is that Federal or state law? I'm unaware of any Federal law (which doesn't mean much on this topic). In the event there is not, that would leave such laws up to the states and they would probably vary.

I don't particularly care being confined to a converted closed as punishment for a child, and I disagree completely with not allowing a child ot use the restroom.

IMO, 3 hours does more psychological harm than good. I'm really not seeing the justification for this particular type of punishment. Punishment is pointless cruelty if it does not teach.

 

[random3434]

Next question though is that Federal or state law? I'm unaware of any Federal law (which doesn't mean much on this topic). In the event there is not, that would leave such laws up to the states and they would probably vary.

I don't particularly care being confined to a converted closed as punishment for a child, and I disagree completely with not allowing a child ot use the restroom.

IMO, 3 hours does more psychological harm than good. I'm really not seeing the justification for this particular type of punishment. Punishment is pointless cruelty if it does not teach.

It's a Federal Law that a child with a disability must have an IEP.

IDEA 2004 Roadmap to IEPs: IEP Content, IEP Meetings, Attendance, Review and Revision, and Transition - Wrightslaw


When I get a new child in my classroom from another state, his/her IEP follows them. That tells me where the child is academically, and what guidelines I must follow according to their IEP.
That is helpful.

The punishment for this girl with autism was cruel and unusual punishment imo.

 

[manifold]

Bring back corporal punishment and problem solved. /

 

[random3434]

Bring back corporal punishment and problem solved. /

Says the boy that needed paddling daily in school.....