Saving The Big 3: Card Check!

[Annie]

More 'change' we can believe in! Cripple successful so the dinosaurs rule!

'Card check' best hope for auto workers union? - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com

'Card check' best hope for auto workers union?
Congress to vote on Employee Free Choice Act to make unionization easier
By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
msnbc.com
updated 11:38 a.m. CT, Fri., Nov. 21, 2008
WASHINGTON - Congress returns after Thanksgiving to decide whether to approve a $25 billion loan to General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford. The future of United Auto Workers members in Michigan and other states is at stake.

“It appears to me we possibly have one too many auto makers,” said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., who opposes the loan.

But he said, “even if they went through Chapter 11, there will be U.S. auto makers in this country. I don’t think there’s anybody in this country that really thinks if they went through some re-organization that we’re not going to end up with U.S. auto makers at the end of that. We are.”

But it will be an industry in which fewer workers are represented by the United Auto Workers. And that doesn’t cause Republicans like Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., any regret.

“I think the United Auto Workers and some of their wage demands and work habit demands have hurt the industry,” Sessions said.

One advantage the Honda and Hyundai plants in Alabama have over the General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford plants in Michigan is lower labor costs. That's because, in part, auto workers in Michigan are represented by the UAW and workers in Alabama aren’t....

Obama and card check:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-renews-promise-on-nafta-card-check-2008-09-01.html

 

[SwingVoter]

this card check bill is a much greater concern than the few points Obama wants to add to marginal tax rates

Unions prevent tomorrow's jobs from being created by protecting jobs that should have been cut in the past.

 

[Annie]

this card check bill is a much greater concern than the few points Obama wants to add to marginal tax rates

Unions prevent tomorrow's jobs from being created by protecting jobs that should have been cut in the past.

Indeed. Care to elaborate?

 

[WillowTree]

Unions can control all the worker bees they want and run up the prices all they want, they can't force us to buy their shittly little cars. Not yet anyways!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Unions can control all the worker bees they want and run up the prices all they want, they can't force us to buy their shittly little cars. Not yet anyways!

With this bill, they're trying to target corporations like Wal-Mart that haven't unionized. Wal-Mart employees seem to be content without a big union. Again the government trying to force things on people because they think it's better for us.

 

[Annie]

With this bill, they're trying to target corporations like Wal-Mart that haven't unionized. Wal-Mart employees seem to be content without a big union. Again the government trying to force things on people because they think it's better for us.

Yep. They are targeting, one may ask why, but not for long. The ability to question may become moot.

 

[WillowTree]

With this bill, they're trying to target corporations like Wal-Mart that haven't unionized. Wal-Mart employees seem to be content without a big union. Again the government trying to force things on people because they think it's better for us.

not the government honey, the retarded liberals,, what's with the open ballot you think? them fucking democrats on the hill go behind closed doors and vote with a secret ballot..

 

[ABikerSailor]

With this bill, they're trying to target corporations like Wal-Mart that haven't unionized. Wal-Mart employees seem to be content without a big union. Again the government trying to force things on people because they think it's better for us.

Well, we've seen what unions have done to GM.......

 

[Paulie]

Why can't the union members take a pay cut as well?

They'd be ok if they made 40/hr instead of $70/hr. $40/hr is good money. They don't deserve to make $70/hr, considering the cars their companies are trying to force upon us.

It's better than being out of a job completely.

Hey, it's a start.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Why can't the union members take a pay cut as well?

They'd be ok if they made 40/hr instead of $70/hr. $40/hr is good money. They don't deserve to make $70/hr, considering the cars their companies are trying to force upon us.

It's better than being out of a job completely.

Hey, it's a start.

You know, that's not such a bad idea Paulitics. Instead of the taxpayer bailing out the companies so that they can continue to receive fat cash at the expense of the taxpayer, let the fuckers bail themselves out.

Hell....they've been paid enough long enough. I kinda find it sad when a person sweeping floors at the GM plant makes more than a teacher with tenure.

 

[Paulie]

You know, that's not such a bad idea Paulitics. Instead of the taxpayer bailing out the companies so that they can continue to receive fat cash at the expense of the taxpayer, let the fuckers bail themselves out.

Hell....they've been paid enough long enough. I kinda find it sad when a person sweeping floors at the GM plant makes more than a teacher with tenure.

Well come on now, you can't tell me you haven't already considered it.

Why should they continue to be paid top dollar for companies that don't really seem to care about their fleets?

These companies can't possibly exist with these wages they are paying, so the workers can either take a hit like a lot of other people are, and readjust their lifestyles, or they can be out of a job completely.

I mean, what the fuck. Why do I have to pay for ANY of it out of my pocket?

I've bought American vehicles in my life. Isn't that good enough?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well come on now, you can't tell me you haven't already considered it.

Why should they continue to be paid top dollar for companies that don't really seem to care about their fleets?

These companies can't possibly exist with these wages they are paying, so the workers can either take a hit like a lot of other people are, and readjust their lifestyles, or they can be out of a job completely.

I mean, what the fuck. Why do I have to pay for ANY of it out of my pocket?

I've bought American vehicles in my life. Isn't that good enough?

You know what would be a good idea? Let GM go belly up and file bankruptcy. Let the workers that are laid off go to work for the government rebuilding the infrastructure (roads and bridges), as well as start putting up windmill farms.

Oh yeah.......also place big ass lines under the re-built roads that are capable of carrying the energy from the windmills to places all over. Instead of laying out more lines and things, why not bury them in the highways so that we can have electric cars that go from place to place?

It would keep jobs here, stimulate the economy, and take care of the workers that GM laid off because the CEO's fucked up.

 

[Paulie]

You know what would be a good idea? Let GM go belly up and file bankruptcy. Let the workers that are laid off go to work for the government rebuilding the infrastructure (roads and bridges), as well as start putting up windmill farms.

Oh yeah.......also place big ass lines under the re-built roads that are capable of carrying the energy from the windmills to places all over. Instead of laying out more lines and things, why not bury them in the highways so that we can have electric cars that go from place to place?

It would keep jobs here, stimulate the economy, and take care of the workers that GM laid off because the CEO's fucked up.

I can get behind that. But it's not limited to only GM, though.

I am all for working on our infrastructure. It's high time we started working on our OWN, instead of some other country's because we bombed the shit out of it.

If you can put together a car, you can ride front end loaders and dig holes.

The problem would not be available infrastructure work for the ones out of a job at the auto plants though, it would be those people's PRIDE.

Would they have enough humility to downgrade themselves to road-crew?

There ARE solutions. We can do ANYTHING in this country if we want to. I just don't think there's enough people who WANT to.

 

[WillowTree]

You know what would be a good idea? Let GM go belly up and file bankruptcy. Let the workers that are laid off go to work for the government rebuilding the infrastructure (roads and bridges), as well as start putting up windmill farms.

Oh yeah.......also place big ass lines under the re-built roads that are capable of carrying the energy from the windmills to places all over. Instead of laying out more lines and things, why not bury them in the highways so that we can have electric cars that go from place to place?

It would keep jobs here, stimulate the economy, and take care of the workers that GM laid off because the CEO's fucked up.

won't happen,, all the illegals getting amnesty will takes those jobs,, that's the price you pay for getting more voters and cheap labor.. suck it up

 

[WillowTree]

I can get behind that. But it's not limited to only GM, though.

I am all for working on our infrastructure. It's high time we started working on our OWN, instead of some other country's because we bombed the shit out of it.

If you can put together a car, you can ride front end loaders and dig holes.

The problem would not be available infrastructure work for the ones out of a job at the auto plants though, it would be those people's PRIDE.

Would they have enough humility to downgrade themselves to road-crew?

There ARE solutions. We can do ANYTHING in this country if we want to. I just don't think there's enough people who WANT to.

no, those are the jobs Americans won't do!

 

[Paulie]

won't happen,, all the illegals getting amnesty will takes those jobs,, that's the price you pay for getting more voters and cheap labor.. suck it up

That would go hand in hand with this:

The problem would not be available infrastructure work for the ones out of a job at the auto plants though, it would be those people's PRIDE.

Would they have enough humility to downgrade themselves to road-crew?

There ARE solutions. We can do ANYTHING in this country if we want to. I just don't think there's enough people who WANT to.

The work might BE there, but immigrants would take the jobs before most of us Americans would ever be willing to.

That kind of work is BENEATH most pampered Americans.

 

[Red Dawn]

Why can't the union members take a pay cut as well?

They'd be ok if they made 40/hr instead of $70/hr. $40/hr is good money. They don't deserve to make $70/hr, considering the cars their companies are trying to force upon us.

It's better than being out of a job completely.

Hey, it's a start.

$70 dollars an hour??

That's a rightwing talking point, and if you think about it for more than two seconds, it doesn't even make sense.

Do you know what $70/hour translates to annually? Close to a 150 grand a year.

Do you really think an assembly line worker makes 150k a year in salary?

No, they don't. The rightwing came up with the 70 bucks an hour number by including all the benefits current workers get, plus adding in the retirement and medical benefits that retirees are getting. People who aren't even working at GM anymore!

Independent auditors have reported that skilled assembly line workers make between 28 and 31 bucks an hour.

The "janitors" and non-skilled labor are starting at around 14 bucks an hour.

And contrary to popular myth propagated on the Sean Hannity show, the unions have been making concessions. Beginning with the 2007 UAW contract. The union has no vested interest in seeing the american car manufacturing go extinct. But, its classic rightwing propaganda to blame the unions. Germany makes some of the most excellent cars in the world, and their work force it totally unionized. Toyota of Japan is totally unionized in that country.

The problem is GM has a crap business model, and horrible management. That's the core of the problem.

 

[WillowTree]

That would go hand in hand with this:



The work might BE there, but immigrants would take the jobs before most of us Americans would ever be willing to.

That kind of work is BENEATH most pampered Americans.

speak fer yerself,, Republicans know about pulling themselves up by their bootstraps,, some of us started out Democrats til we got that figured out,, so will the Hispanics,, might take em twenty years, but they are conservatives,, it was Hispanics who voted down prop 8,, they being Catholic an all..

 

[WillowTree]

$70 dollars an hour??

That's a rightwing talking point, and if you think about it for more than two seconds, it doesn't even make sense.

Do you know what $70/hour translates to annually? Close to a 150 grand a year.

Do you really think an assembly line worker makes 150k a year in salary?

No, they don't. The rightwing came up with the 70 bucks an hour number by including all the benefits current workers get, plus adding in the retirement and medical benefits that retirees are getting. People who aren't even working at GM anymore!

Independent auditors have reported that skilled assembly line workers make between 28 and 31 bucks an hour.

The "janitors" and non-skilled labor are starting at around 14 bucks an hour.

And contrary to popular myth propagated on the Sean Hannity show, the unions have been making concessions. Beginning with the 2007 UAW contract. The union has no vested interest in seeing the american car manufacturing go extinct. But, its classic rightwing propaganda to blame the unions. Germany makes some of the most excellent cars in the world, and their work force it totally unionized. Toyota of Japan is totally unionized in that country.

The problem is GM has a crap business model, and horrible management. That's the core of the problem.

that's because right wingers know that benefits are the "hidden paycheck" if you don't think so then remove the benefits whyconcha?

 

[Paulie]

that's because right wingers know that benefits are the "hidden paycheck" if you don't think so then remove the benefits whyconcha?

Yeah, seriously.

Red Dawn, you'll notice I never said anywhere that that was their gross income. $70/hr is $70/hr. What's the difference if some is take home pay, and some is benefits?

The companies are still shelling out $70/hr and producing CRAP!

Right wing talking points . How about left wing SPIN?