The average monthly payment for a new car was $733 in the second quarter of 2023. That could rise if auto workers strike long enough

[iamwhatiseem]

Meaningless

Okay then I was right, no existing employees had their pay cut due to lower profits.
Thanks again

 

[Woodznutz]

Okay then I was right, no existing employees had their pay cut due to lower profits.
Thanks again

I think what gipper means is that if wages are frozen they are effectively reduced due to inflation. That's how the government figures. Anticipated inflation is built into every budget.

 

[task0778]

If I'm not mistaken, they were offered 20% raise over the 4 year contract.
I would have been happy with that....but, that's just me.

FYI:

The automakers and union exchanged proposals in late August and into September that included fluctuating offers around wage increases, cost-of-living adjustments and time off. The companies have offered around 20% increases over four years, plus lump-sum payments of more than $16,000 in signing bonuses and inflation-protection payments. The union in recent weeks had come off its initial 40% wage-increase proposal into the mid-30% range.

How UAW Tossed Its Old Playbook and Pursued a Surprise-Attack Strike Strategy

Union leader Shawn Fain launched targeted approach that hits automakers GM, Ford and Stellantis simultaneously but risks uneven pain for workers.

www.wsj.com

I would have been happy with that too. But what this doesn't address is the UAW's demand to unionize new EV plants. They want a piece of the future, which is understandable but IMHO contrary to the companies' right to make their own business decisions. So far as I know, no state outlaws the UAW's right to unionize an auto plant anywhere. The employees should have the right to vote on unionization, and I do not support any restriction on that. And I doubt any such language in the (eventual) new labor agreement would stand up in a court of law.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I think what gipper means is that if wages are frozen they are effectively reduced due to inflation. That's how the government figures. Anticipated inflation is built into every budget.

Perhaps, but that is not a wage cut.
And my point stands - wages between the 80s-2010s being stagnant in America had way-way-way -way more to do with the uncaring American consumer who stacked their carts with cheaper foreign made goods than corporate greed.
THAT is what made labor less of a value.

 

[task0778]

Perhaps, but that is not a wage cut.
And my point stands - wages between the 80s-2010s being stagnant in America had way-way-way -way more to do with the uncaring American consumer who stacked their carts with cheaper foreign made goods than corporate greed.
THAT is what made labor less of a value.

Wait a minute here, when my decision as a consumer is to pay less for a foreign made product that is as good as if not better than an American made product so I can provide more for myself and my family, then that is going to override any concern for corporate greed or the balance of trade. Don't give me this shit about uncaring, that is total crap.

Let's back up from the 80s a couple of decades to when the other countries started competing in the world market and especially here in the US. At first it was cheap crap, but eventually they produced a higher quality product that was comparable if not better than what Americans produced here. And people began to but more foreign made stuff, as one might expect. There are reasons why our products became less attractive to consumers, one was the much higher labor costs to make domestic products here and another was piss-poor management decisions in our company boardrooms that led to where we are today. But don't be blaming the consumer for making purchasing decisions in the best interests of him/herself and their families.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Wait a minute here, when my decision as a consumer is to pay less for a foreign made product that is as good as if not better than an American made product so I can provide more for myself and my family, then that is going to override any concern for corporate greed or the balance of trade. Don't give me this shit about uncaring, that is total crap.

Let's back up from the 80s a couple of decades to when the other countries started competing in the world market and especially here in the US. At first it was cheap crap, but eventually they produced a higher quality product that was comparable if not better than what Americans produced here. And people began to but more foreign made stuff, as one might expect. There are reasons why our products became less attractive to consumers, one was the much higher labor costs to make domestic products here and another was piss-poor management decisions in our company boardrooms that led to where we are today. But don't be blaming the consumer for making purchasing decisions in the best interests of him/herself and their families.

Then you have no place to complain about wages in America.
NONE.
What are you even doing in this thread?

 

[task0778]

Then you have no place to complain about wages in America.
NONE.
What are you even doing in this thread?

Fuck off.

You are the one who bitched about "uncaring consumers", as being at least partly responsible for stagnant wage growth, right (Post #144)? You are the one bitching about stagnant wages, not me. Which BTW have not been stagnant. And that is what I'm doing in the thread. I care a lot more about my family's welfare than I do about somebody else's wages, and I don't really care if you approve of that or not. I am going to spend my income the best way I know how and I don't care where the products I buy were made.

I did not complain about wages but I do have every right to do so if I choose. So, do not tell me I have no place to complain cuz I sure as hell do. You know why? Cuz rising labor costs without rising productivity leads to rising inflation, and I'll bitch about that if I want to. You and your ilk are continually making it harder for people who are living paycheck to paycheck. And it is in fact people like you who are uncaring, you're more concerned with the disparity of incomes between a few hundred CEOs and everybody else that you are about the consequences of rising prices.

 

[Woodznutz]

Perhaps, but that is not a wage cut.
And my point stands - wages between the 80s-2010s being stagnant in America had way-way-way -way more to do with the uncaring American consumer who stacked their carts with cheaper foreign made goods than corporate greed.
THAT is what made labor less of a value.

Point taken.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Industry rewards skilled workers, unskilled workers not so much. Also, there is a glut of unskilled workers, so supply and demand come into play.

May Bankrupt Anonymously

The most unskilled workers are in management. Even labor-haters know that. You'll never hear even one of them say, "So you got the highest grades in your high school? What are you going to major in when you go to college—Business Administration?"

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Then the company has every right to take wages away when profits are low.
Can't have your cake and eat it too

White-Collar Supremacy

The Suitcoats have the whole cake and the frosting, too. The workers get the crumbs that fall on the floor.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

May Bankrupt Anonymously

The most unskilled workers are in management. Even labor-haters know that. You'll never hear even one of them say, "So you got the highest grades in your high school? What are you going to major in when you go to college—Business Administration?"

That is just silly.
There are stupid people everywhere... at almost every level.

 

[task0778]

There are stupid people everywhere... at almost every level.

Tell me again why stupid people should get a huge pay raise without doing anything to earn it.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Typical Democrat dumbassery.

Comments to the stupid UAW.


Fetterman

“My message to the CEOs is, you know, it’s $74 million dollars, you know, collectively earning that, you know, how many yachts can they need to water ski behind it? You know, it’s just crazy.”

Two Wings of the Same Vulture

Guilt by association fallacy. In fact, that's why the Liberal agents of the laissez-faire lizards act like morons and degenerates. It's a Bad Cop/Good Cop scenario.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There are stupid people everywhere... at almost every level.

The Silly Salaried

That itself is a stupid reason for excusing management incompetence. The rulers have brainwashed you to never consider the strength of the human materials assigned to hold up a structure. No-talent bootlicking yes-men at the top cause far more damage than lazy or incompetent workers. Most of them had their Daddies buy them their jobs and the rest are just as unmeritorious. Hereditary privileges are destroying our economy. Heads need to roll.

When America was successful, people started at the bottom and worked their way to the top. They didn't suck their thumbs in college for four years and then get placed above those who had worked there for many more years, with practical rather than theoretical experience.

 

[Woodznutz]

The Silly Salaried

That itself is a stupid reason for excusing management incompetence. The rulers have brainwashed you to never consider the strength of the human materials assigned to hold up a structure. No-talent bootlicking yes-men at the top cause far more damage than lazy or incompetent workers. Most of them had their Daddies buy them their jobs and the rest are just as unmeritorious. Hereditary privileges are destroying our economy. Heads need to roll.

When America was successful, people started at the bottom and worked their way to the top. They didn't suck their thumbs in college for four years and then get placed above those who had worked there for many more years, with practical rather than theoretical experience.

Workers rarely get into management. They may rise to better positions on the shop floor but will never see the inside of the offices of the company. That's the class system in industrial America.

 

[Woodznutz]

I worked in a non-union supermarket as a meat cutter. I was paid union scale but the grocery workers were paid less than the 'grocery union' scale. The owner confessed to me that we meat cutters often made more than he did. He was barely keeping his head above water. The grocery union came in an 'organized' his workers, a strike ensued and after a short time he capitulated. Six months later he closed the store. A dozen full time workers, most of which had families, lost their jobs, as well as dozens of part time workers. The neighborhood lost a great supermarket and became a 'food desert'.

Sage, you have a twisted sense of humor.

 

[Woodznutz]

White-Collar Supremacy

The Suitcoats have the whole cake and the frosting, too. The workers get the crumbs that fall on the floor.

Save up enough crumbs and you'll have a whole cake.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Tell me again why stupid people should get a huge pay raise without doing anything to earn it.

Yeah... jealousy fits you.
I have been in management since 1989. Became the youngest director in the corporations history.
Between 2005 and 2014 I operated a $40+M printing company. I took over the company that lost $487,000 the previous year, and by the end of 2005 we were making over $1m a month.
You think a stupid person can do that? You think a lazy person can do that? You think I just occupied a chair and it just sorta worked itself out?

 

[initforme]

We have to get over thinking american companies deserve any kind of work force. Nobody shows up to work for the good of the nation.

 

[task0778]

Yeah... jealousy fits you.
I have been in management since 1989. Became the youngest director in the corporations history.
Between 2005 and 2014 I operated a $40+M printing company. I took over the company that lost $487,000 the previous year, and by the end of 2005 we were making over $1m a month.
You think a stupid person can do that? You think a lazy person can do that? You think I just occupied a chair and it just sorta worked itself out?

I think you dodged the issue. Congrats on your success but what does that have to do with this: Tell me again why stupid people should get a huge pay raise without doing anything to earn it.