Saudi Arabia classifies atheists as "terrorists".

[Sally]

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

We pay dearly for the continuance of that treaty.

The Saudis are the worst of the bunch. The country is basically Salafist institutionally. I'm surprised they haven't classified non Sunnis as terrorists. That's coming. What happens if the U.S. Embassy sends an athiest to the post? Does he get diplomatic immunity?

One thing we know for sure. A person wearing a crucifix could be in mighty big trouble wearing it outside his clothing. As one guy working there for Bechtel told me, his room mate told him to hide it or he could be killed. Well, we see how the Christians are being persecuted all over the Muslim world, so why should Saudi Arabia be different.

I believe that the Saudis have a rehab place for former terrorists. Who even knows if they will be rehabitated or go back to terrorism.

 

[montelatici]

I was stationed in Saudi Arabia for 2 years, and it is far different than other Muslim countries. In Tunisia, for example, the Cathedral of St. Vincent de Paul in downtown Tunis holds mass regularly. Interestingly, the number of Jews in Tunisia has been growing. Prior to the civil war, Syria's religious minorities were protected. It is the same for Oman and other Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is far different, they oppress other Muslims, such as the Shiites. They sent their troops into Bahrein to put down the Shiite majority's demonstrations for equal rights.

 

[Roudy]

The Arab Spring killed itself.

The surrounding countries see what's going on in those places and really don't want that to happen to them

The Arab Spring fell apart and became self destructive because of Obama making all the wrong moves, and saying all the wrong things. Obama came into office with no foreign policy experience and so far he's been a worldwide disaster with one fatal mistake after another. I seriously can't think of a single thing he's done internationally that has been positive.

Perhaps you would have preferred Obama

go to the United Nations, tell a big ol' batch of lies, invade Libya, kill another 4,000 American troops and watch how fast IED makers could perfect their craft. After all, that's what his predecessor did and all it cost was a billion a month.

foreign policy! Tell us about the Bush Doctrine again!

Obama has restarted the Cold War with Russia that has invaded part of Ukraine and about to invade the rest, Arab allies have become Islamist militant states, the Syrian govt has committed genocide on more than a 150,000 of its own people while Obama is scratching his ass wondering where to draw the next red line, Iran is closer than ever to gaining a nuclear weapon or being hit by an Israeli air strike (both bad outcomes), America's allies are concerned that US won't back them up, and the rest of America's enemies have figured out that we have a weak paper tiger as president and are contemplating their next aggressive move.

And let's not forget that this con artist shyster went in front of the cameras and LIED to the public about tuning his back on an American ambassador and three others in Ben Ghazi, letting them get murdered by Islamist savages while watching the whole thing on Camera, and falsely blaming "protests due to a controversial video". That didn't stop the asshole from campaigning the very same day that the bodies of four dead American were still warm, and smiling charmingly for the cameras like a Cheshire Cat. A crime he should have been impeached had his lapdog liberal mass media done their job like they were supposed to"

That's this presidents foreign policy legacy, and it's still not finished, we got three more years of this nightmare.

Bush invaded two countries and freed their people, and now they are living as human beings. Maybe the reason wasn't good enough, and we lost American lives in the process, but let's remember what the world would be like today and what life for the people in those countries would be like had the Taliban and Al Queda still be in charge of Afghanistan, and Sadam in charge of Iraq. There is no denial that both the world and the people in those countries are exponentially better off. But now, thanks to this moron Obama, he's about to destroy all the accomplishments made, and the American blood and money spent in those two countries as well.

Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.

 

[Roudy]

I was stationed in Saudi Arabia for 2 years, and it is far different than other Muslim countries. In Tunisia, for example, the Cathedral of St. Vincent de Paul in downtown Tunis holds mass regularly. Interestingly, the number of Jews in Tunisia has been growing. Prior to the civil war, Syria's religious minorities were protected. It is the same for Oman and other Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is far different, they oppress other Muslims, such as the Shiites. They sent their troops into Bahrein to put down the Shiite majority's demonstrations for equal rights.

Tunisia just elected an Islamist govt that is going to impose barbaric shariah law. Keep up will ya.

 

[montelatici]

The Arab Spring fell apart and became self destructive because of Obama making all the wrong moves, and saying all the wrong things. Obama came into office with no foreign policy experience and so far he's been a worldwide disaster with one fatal mistake after another. I seriously can't think of a single thing he's done internationally that has been positive.

Perhaps you would have preferred Obama

go to the United Nations, tell a big ol' batch of lies, invade Libya, kill another 4,000 American troops and watch how fast IED makers could perfect their craft. After all, that's what his predecessor did and all it cost was a billion a month.

foreign policy! Tell us about the Bush Doctrine again!

Obama has restarted the Cold War with Russia that has invaded part of Ukraine and about to invade the rest, Arab allies have become Islamist militant states, the Syrian govt has committed genocide on more than a 150,000 of its own people while Obama is scratching his ass wondering where to draw the next red line, Iran is closer than ever to gaining a nuclear weapon or being hit by an Israeli air strike (both bad outcomes), America's allies are concerned that US won't back them up, and the rest of America's enemies have figured out that we have a weak paper tiger as president and are contemplating their next aggressive move.

And let's not forget that this con artist shyster went in front of the cameras and LIED to the public about tuning his back on an American ambassador and three others in Ben Ghazi, letting them get murdered by Islamist savages while watching the whole thing on Camera, and falsely blaming "protests due to a controversial video". That didn't stop the asshole from campaigning the very same day that the bodies of four dead American were still warm, and smiling charmingly for the cameras like a Cheshire Cat. A crime he should have been impeached had his lapdog liberal mass media done their job like they were supposed to"

That's this presidents foreign policy legacy, and it's still not finished, we got three more years of this nightmare.

Bush invaded two countries and freed their people, and now they are living as human beings. Maybe the reason wasn't good enough, and we lost American lives in the process, but let's remember what the world would be like today and what life for the people in those countries would be like had the Taliban and Al Queda still be in charge of Afghanistan, and Sadam in charge of Iraq. There is no denial that both the world and the people in those countries are exponentially better off. But now, thanks to this moron Obama, he's about to destroy all the accomplishments made, and the American blood and money spent in those two countries as well.

Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.

"Bush invaded two countries and freed their people, and now they are living as human beings."

Now that is an example of cognitive dissonance or too much Fox News, oh wait, not even Fox News would say something so stupid.

 

[Roudy]

You can thank Qaddafi for that. Tunisia turned without widespread violence. Only the egomaniacal dictators go down fighting.

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

Carter didn't really do much the three countries and their representatives were ready to make peace and were negotiating the terms of the peace deal directly with each other. They just needed America to "notarize" the thing.

We saw the real Carter in Iran and when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The world is still suffering from those events.

 

[Roudy]

Perhaps you would have preferred Obama

go to the United Nations, tell a big ol' batch of lies, invade Libya, kill another 4,000 American troops and watch how fast IED makers could perfect their craft. After all, that's what his predecessor did and all it cost was a billion a month.

foreign policy! Tell us about the Bush Doctrine again!

Obama has restarted the Cold War with Russia that has invaded part of Ukraine and about to invade the rest, Arab allies have become Islamist militant states, the Syrian govt has committed genocide on more than a 150,000 of its own people while Obama is scratching his ass wondering where to draw the next red line, Iran is closer than ever to gaining a nuclear weapon or being hit by an Israeli air strike (both bad outcomes), America's allies are concerned that US won't back them up, and the rest of America's enemies have figured out that we have a weak paper tiger as president and are contemplating their next aggressive move.

And let's not forget that this con artist shyster went in front of the cameras and LIED to the public about tuning his back on an American ambassador and three others in Ben Ghazi, letting them get murdered by Islamist savages while watching the whole thing on Camera, and falsely blaming "protests due to a controversial video". That didn't stop the asshole from campaigning the very same day that the bodies of four dead American were still warm, and smiling charmingly for the cameras like a Cheshire Cat. A crime he should have been impeached had his lapdog liberal mass media done their job like they were supposed to"

That's this presidents foreign policy legacy, and it's still not finished, we got three more years of this nightmare.

Bush invaded two countries and freed their people, and now they are living as human beings. Maybe the reason wasn't good enough, and we lost American lives in the process, but let's remember what the world would be like today and what life for the people in those countries would be like had the Taliban and Al Queda still be in charge of Afghanistan, and Sadam in charge of Iraq. There is no denial that both the world and the people in those countries are exponentially better off. But now, thanks to this moron Obama, he's about to destroy all the accomplishments made, and the American blood and money spent in those two countries as well.

Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.

"Bush invaded two countries and freed their people, and now they are living as human beings."

Now that is an example of cognitive dissonance or too much Fox News, oh wait, not even Fox News would say something so stupid.

Now that is an example of Bush derangement syndrome and an inability to handle the truth. Yes. America freed two countries and their people from tyranny and barbarism.

True story.

Now repeat after me Mohomod:

God...Bless...America.

 

[High_Gravity]

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

We pay dearly for the continuance of that treaty.

The Saudis are the worst of the bunch. The country is basically Salafist institutionally. I'm surprised they haven't classified non Sunnis as terrorists. That's coming. What happens if the U.S. Embassy sends an athiest to the post? Does he get diplomatic immunity?

Yes, the Americans also can drink and do what they want on their compounds.

 

[aris2chat]

I was stationed in Saudi Arabia for 2 years, and it is far different than other Muslim countries. In Tunisia, for example, the Cathedral of St. Vincent de Paul in downtown Tunis holds mass regularly. Interestingly, the number of Jews in Tunisia has been growing. Prior to the civil war, Syria's religious minorities were protected. It is the same for Oman and other Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is far different, they oppress other Muslims, such as the Shiites. They sent their troops into Bahrein to put down the Shiite majority's demonstrations for equal rights.

...and I worked in Dhahran at the airport.

Yes there is oppression in Saudi. The king have four of his daughters held as prisoners in their home. You can be killed for speaking against Islam. You can be beaten or jailed for what you wear. You can burnt or crucified if accused of any witch craft or magic.
Saudi is different, but they are also very influential in the region. They must accept all muslims have a right to participate in the Hajj. What happens out side of Mecca is a matter for the royals. In Mecca Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz Al al-Shaikh can preach about destroying churches.
Every place you go to can be judged good or bad, by you. It is a matter of the perspective you choose to view them.
If your look for the bad, you can find it almost any place. A neutral or positive can find the best of a place.

Every country you travel to will have it's own laws. You accept and adapt.

 

[Esmeralda]

Pretty heavy stuff:

Saudi Arabia labels atheists as terrorists in new anti-dissident law - NY Daily News

Not believing in God is not an option in Saudi Arabia.

The Middle Eastern country has issued new legislation that labels all atheists as terrorists who are a threat to “public order.”

Article 1 of the new provisions define terrorism as “calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based.”

The kingdom has never been a friendly place for atheists — lsam is written into its constitution as the established state religion. But these new laws reflect King Abdullah’s desire to clamp down on political dissent before it can become a movement.

A growing number of Saudis have reportedly been traveling to other parts of the Middle East, like Syria, to participate in demonstrations. According to The Independent, they’re coming back to their home country with new ideas about dethroning the monarchy—a prospect that is unsettling to the 89-year-old Abdullah, who is considered one of the world’s richest royals.

The king’s Royal Decree 44 criminalizes “participating in hostilities outside the kingdom” with a jail term that could last anywhere between three and 20 years, Human Rights Watch reports.

And, uh, Saudi Arabia is supposed to be an ally, right?!?

Their internal laws have nothing to do with us any more than ours have to do with them. If you are not a Saudi and don't live there, you have no reason to concern yourself with this law. MYOB basically. Having a broad world perspective means not believing that the rest of the world should see things as you do. And, seriously, you think every country that is an ally is supposed to hold all the same views as the US? Seriously? That's pretty juvenile.

 

[Roudy]

I was stationed in Saudi Arabia for 2 years, and it is far different than other Muslim countries. In Tunisia, for example, the Cathedral of St. Vincent de Paul in downtown Tunis holds mass regularly. Interestingly, the number of Jews in Tunisia has been growing. Prior to the civil war, Syria's religious minorities were protected. It is the same for Oman and other Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is far different, they oppress other Muslims, such as the Shiites. They sent their troops into Bahrein to put down the Shiite majority's demonstrations for equal rights.

...and I worked in Dhahran at the airport.

Yes there is oppression in Saudi. The king have four of his daughters held as prisoners in their home. You can be killed for speaking against Islam. You can be beaten or jailed for what you wear. You can burnt or crucified if accused of any witch craft or magic.
Saudi is different, but they are also very influential in the region. They must accept all muslims have a right to participate in the Hajj. What happens out side of Mecca is a matter for the royals. In Mecca Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz Al al-Shaikh can preach about destroying churches.
Every place you go to can be judged good or bad, by you. It is a matter of the perspective you choose to view them.
If your look for the bad, you can find it almost any place. A neutral or positive can find the best of a place.

Every country you travel to will have it's own laws. You accept and adapt.

Saudi Arabia is the host to Islam's two holiest sites. They are not oppressing their people as much as imposing Islamic laws, which is to be expected in the "Cradle of Islam". I know many Americans who go and come back from Saudi Arabia for business...it ain't no Caribbean resort, if you mind your business and follow their laws you're fine.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

We pay dearly for the continuance of that treaty.

The Saudis are the worst of the bunch. The country is basically Salafist institutionally. I'm surprised they haven't classified non Sunnis as terrorists. That's coming. What happens if the U.S. Embassy sends an athiest to the post? Does he get diplomatic immunity?

Why? That treaty has absolutely nothing to do with the Saudis, and it has made sure that weapons have not been fired between Mitzrayim (Egypt) and Israel. Sounds like a big win-win to me.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

Carter didn't really do much the three countries and their representatives were ready to make peace and were negotiating the terms of the peace deal directly with each other. They just needed America to "notarize" the thing.

We saw the real Carter in Iran and when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The world is still suffering from those events.

No. Wrong. Carter worked tirelessly on the details of that treaty. His shuttle diplomacy concerning this is well documented. There you are simply factually wrong.

People can criticize him all they want for Iran, but that has nothing to do with the success of the peace treaty with Egypt.

 

[Roudy]

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

Carter didn't really do much the three countries and their representatives were ready to make peace and were negotiating the terms of the peace deal directly with each other. They just needed America to "notarize" the thing.

We saw the real Carter in Iran and when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The world is still suffering from those events.

No. Wrong. Carter worked tirelessly on the details of that treaty. His shuttle diplomacy concerning this is well documented. There you are simply factually wrong.

People can criticize him all they want for Iran, but that has nothing to do with the success of the peace treaty with Egypt.

From what I understand the parties had done all the talking and they just needed a facilitator to legitimize the deal. But I trust you may be correct, and I could be wrong.

As far as Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, many of the today's problems with Islamic terrorism and radicalism can be traced to those two horrific events. Whatever stability Israel's peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan brought to the region and the world, the Iranian Islamic revolution and the Soviet invasion destroyed and caused a series of long term domino effects on the world geo political stage.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Carter didn't really do much the three countries and their representatives were ready to make peace and were negotiating the terms of the peace deal directly with each other. They just needed America to "notarize" the thing.

We saw the real Carter in Iran and when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The world is still suffering from those events.

No. Wrong. Carter worked tirelessly on the details of that treaty. His shuttle diplomacy concerning this is well documented. There you are simply factually wrong.

People can criticize him all they want for Iran, but that has nothing to do with the success of the peace treaty with Egypt.

From what I understand the parties had done all the talking and they just needed a facilitator to legitimize the deal. But I trust you may be correct, and I could be wrong.

As far as Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, many of the today's problems with Islamic terrorism and radicalism can be traced to those two horrific events. Whatever stability Israel's peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan brought to the region and the world, the Iranian Islamic revolution and the Soviet invasion destroyed and caused a series of long term domino effects on the world geo political stage.

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger (R) visited then President Jimmy Carter (D) around 6 or 7 times at the White House and begged him to allow the ailing King (Shah) of Iran to be allowed into the USA for a heart operation. 5 times in a row, Carter said no. The 6th time he relented, the Shah was flown in, and the revolution in Iran began. Historical fact.

I honestly don't think any president would have done much better in the hostage crisis. The hostages were also released BEFORE Reagan was inaugurated, btw.

But you are right, in the ME, it is just one crisis after another waiting to happen.

 

[Roudy]

No. Wrong. Carter worked tirelessly on the details of that treaty. His shuttle diplomacy concerning this is well documented. There you are simply factually wrong.

People can criticize him all they want for Iran, but that has nothing to do with the success of the peace treaty with Egypt.

From what I understand the parties had done all the talking and they just needed a facilitator to legitimize the deal. But I trust you may be correct, and I could be wrong.

As far as Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, many of the today's problems with Islamic terrorism and radicalism can be traced to those two horrific events. Whatever stability Israel's peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan brought to the region and the world, the Iranian Islamic revolution and the Soviet invasion destroyed and caused a series of long term domino effects on the world geo political stage.

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger (R) visited then President Jimmy Carter (D) around 6 or 7 times at the White House and begged him to allow the ailing King (Shah) of Iran to be allowed into the USA for a heart operation. 5 times in a row, Carter said no. The 6th time he relented, the Shah was flown in, and the revolution in Iran began. Historical fact.

I honestly don't think any president would have done much better in the hostage crisis. The hostages were also released BEFORE Reagan was inaugurated, btw.

But you are right, in the ME, it is just one crisis after another waiting to happen.

Now that's where you are totally wrong. Carter's visit to Iran was the spark that started the revolution. He strong armed the Shah to give more freedom to his people and let them "protest". Of course it was all a plot by the West to remove the Shah because their puppet was turning on them and he was getting too arrogant. Once the Shah left and the barbaric Mullahs started butchering, torturing, and oppressing their people, there wasn't a single word from Carter, the US or the West about the "human rights violations" in Iran. Funny, it's always our allies that get strong armed by the liberals, just like in Egypt. They don't dare say a thing to barbarians who don't give a rat's butt about what the US says or human rights.

Carter could have very easily had the Shah's back and reversed the course of the revolution. Instead he cowered and he let a bunch of renegade students and Mullahs hold America hostage for a year. What an embarrassment Carter was.

The Iranian revolution and the invasion of Afghanistan gave rise to radical Sunni Islam (as in Al queda and Bin Laden) supported by the Saudis, and for some time even the US and the West, to counter the rise of radical shiite Islam. And as I said, we have still not recovered from the catastrophe of Carter's presidency. In a way even 9-11 can be indirectly traced to the Carter years, because had it not been for a weak US president and therefore a Soviet invasion, there wouldn't have been any Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda.

The peace treaty was only good for Israel, Jordan, and Egypt.

If you want to learn why the the US, British, and the West plotted to remove the Shah of Iran listen to this interview. Very educational:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAEQMEtgNo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAEQMEtgNo[/ame]

 

[aris2chat]

No. Wrong. Carter worked tirelessly on the details of that treaty. His shuttle diplomacy concerning this is well documented. There you are simply factually wrong.

People can criticize him all they want for Iran, but that has nothing to do with the success of the peace treaty with Egypt.

From what I understand the parties had done all the talking and they just needed a facilitator to legitimize the deal. But I trust you may be correct, and I could be wrong.

As far as Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, many of the today's problems with Islamic terrorism and radicalism can be traced to those two horrific events. Whatever stability Israel's peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan brought to the region and the world, the Iranian Islamic revolution and the Soviet invasion destroyed and caused a series of long term domino effects on the world geo political stage.

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger (R) visited then President Jimmy Carter (D) around 6 or 7 times at the White House and begged him to allow the ailing King (Shah) of Iran to be allowed into the USA for a heart operation. 5 times in a row, Carter said no. The 6th time he relented, the Shah was flown in, and the revolution in Iran began. Historical fact.

I honestly don't think any president would have done much better in the hostage crisis. The hostages were also released BEFORE Reagan was inaugurated, btw.

But you are right, in the ME, it is just one crisis after another waiting to happen.

>The hostages were placed on a plane in Tehran as Reagan delivered his inaugural address.<

 

[Two Thumbs]

You can thank Qaddafi for that. Tunisia turned without widespread violence. Only the egomaniacal dictators go down fighting.

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

yea, money talks and Hezbolla terrorist dig holes from egypt to israel

 

[Statistikhengst]

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

yea, money talks and Hezbolla terrorist dig holes from egypt to israel

Hezb'allah is not Egypt. You do understand the difference, right?

 

[montelatici]

Egypt also went south.

2 out of 3 countries are hellholes now

And yet, amazingly, the 34+ year old peace treaty hammered out by then Pres. Jimmy Carter between Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat still holds. I believe this is the only treaty between Israel and any of it's neighbors that has held this long.

yea, money talks and Hezbolla terrorist dig holes from egypt to israel

What are Hizbullah doing in Egypt digging tunnels to Israel?