Satan in Islam

[Muslim75]

Christianity says people are saved by their choice of being Christians. That's very childish. Men hav responsibilities. Also, choosing is an action, not of the limbs but of the heart; so just as you know you your bodily actions can never reach the Purity of God, so also your personal choices can never reach the Purity of God.

Christians are not saved because we choose to be saved but rather because God has made it possible by His grace. Our choice is to receive a free gift or not. So no Christians do not believe that actions earn salvation or even the purity of our hearts. Having been saved we rather see changes occur in our actions and in our thoughts and motivations that reflect our new condition before God. We respond in thankfulness not in fear to a God who has paved the way. In the same way Satans authority over our lives is already overthrown and it is simply a question of working through the meaning of that. Of course we face all sorts of tests and extreme choices but we do so as people who already know that the victory is won. I am not sure on what basis a Muslim can base his confidence that Satan can be defeated.

You are insisting on not considering the Christian salvation doctrine as what it is and stipulates. The Grace of God on you is His mere creating you, because since He created you, He loves you. Since He created you, you are perfect, because the perfect God does not create anything imperfect. Were you to be saved on the basis of your belief that Jesus was God, you would not wait until the time of your death to meet with God and reunite with Him, which is exactly what Christianity stipulates.

You have enough to worry about, than to worry about how Islam allows one to escape the clutches of Satan, the enemy of man, and to re-unite with God, the Beloved.

 

[Muslim75]

I speak from th traditional knowledge in Islam and th knowledge of the saints of Islam.

Joseph (Yusuf in Arabic), peace on him was a prophet, the son of Jacob, the grandson of Isaac and the great grandson of Abraham, the friend of God. They were all prophets of God.

When Joseph was a boy, his brothers asked Jacob to send him with them to play and enjoy himself, as the Qur'an says:

"Send him with us tomorrow to enjoy himself and play, and we shall take every care of him" (Chapter of the Qur'an called Joseph)

"To enjoy himself and to play" means Joseph was trusting. He was not quick to call people liars. Yet, when the brothers took him with them, they threw him in the bottom of the well and left him there.

As an adult, he was accused of having tried to seduce the wife of his king, though he said "God forbid! your husband is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable." This is the importance of trust.

He was imprisoned. When his innocence was proved, the king, impressed by Joseph, asked that Joseph be brought to his select presence. Joseph sent back the emissary to the king asking that first, the king should enquire about the state of mind of the ladies who were passioned of him. The Qur'an says:

"(The king) said (to the ladies): "What was your affair when ye did seek to seduce Joseph from his (true) self?" The ladies said: "(Allah, God) preserve us! no evil know we against him!" Said the 'Aziz's wife: "Now is the truth manifest (to all): it was I who sought to seduce him from his (true) self: he is indeed of those who are (ever) true (and virtuous)."

Joseph then says, as the Qur'an says:

"This I say in order that he may know that I have never been false to him in his absence, and that Allah will never guide the snare of the false ones."

This is the importance of trust. One must be trustworthy and one must be trusting. By trusting, I mean that one must not be quick to consider people liars.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But this must be done with the help of God. Without it, there is no chance, Satan will get the upper hand.

 

[Sunni Man]

7 variants of the Qur'an, yet somehow all were true. Which is why the caliph felt the need to destroy six of them.

Nope........ the other 6 either weren't complete or contained textual defects.

In the first decades of Islamic expansion. Some of the Quran's in far flung territories contained flaws or misquotes.

Uthman who was a close personal friend of Muhammad had been personally taught the Quran and memorized the entire book.

After the death of Muhammad he was the 3rd person chosen to lead the muslims. Uthman then sent people throughout the muslim lands with perfect copies of the Quran, and any copies found which deviated from Uthman's Quran were destroyed.

 

[Dajjal]

I speak from th traditional knowledge in Islam and th knowledge of the saints of Islam.

Joseph (Yusuf in Arabic), peace on him was a prophet, the son of Jacob, the grandson of Isaac and the great grandson of Abraham, the friend of God. They were all prophets of God.

When Joseph was a boy, his brothers asked Jacob to send him with them to play and enjoy himself, as the Qur'an says:

"Send him with us tomorrow to enjoy himself and play, and we shall take every care of him" (Chapter of the Qur'an called Joseph)

"To enjoy himself and to play" means Joseph was trusting. He was not quick to call people liars. Yet, when the brothers took him with them, they threw him in the bottom of the well and left him there.

As an adult, he was accused of having tried to seduce the wife of his king, though he said "God forbid! your husband is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable." This is the importance of trust.

He was imprisoned. When his innocence was proved, the king, impressed by Joseph, asked that Joseph be brought to his select presence. Joseph sent back the emissary to the king asking that first, the king should enquire about the state of mind of the ladies who were passioned of him. The Qur'an says:

"(The king) said (to the ladies): "What was your affair when ye did seek to seduce Joseph from his (true) self?" The ladies said: "(Allah, God) preserve us! no evil know we against him!" Said the 'Aziz's wife: "Now is the truth manifest (to all): it was I who sought to seduce him from his (true) self: he is indeed of those who are (ever) true (and virtuous)."

Joseph then says, as the Qur'an says:

"This I say in order that he may know that I have never been false to him in his absence, and that Allah will never guide the snare of the false ones."

This is the importance of trust. One must be trustworthy and one must be trusting. By trusting, I mean that one must not be quick to consider people liars.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But this must be done with the help of God. Without it, there is no chance, Satan will get the upper hand.

I wrote a piece on sura 12, Joseph.
Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in sura 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran sura 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire sura is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does sura 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at sura 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and sura 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.

 

[September]

Iblis was indeed a great servant of God. He saw a light in the divine realm and thought it was destined to him. When God created Adam he put that light on the forehead of Adam, and ordered all angels to bow to him. Angels bowed to him, Iblis did not. He was displeased with the fact that that light was not for him. Angels bowed to Adam because of that light they saw. That was the light of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family).

From that time on, the Jinn (firy being) who refused to bow to Adam was called Iblis. Everything that happened was but a way of teaching to mankind. Iblis could never sin in the presence of God except that God wanted it and approved of it. This was done in order that Iblis would later tempt Adam, and Adam would be sent down on earth. God wanted to send down Adam on earth. This is why all of this happened. Iblis is on a mission to mislead people, a mission from God. There is nothing wrong with it, in the eyes of God.

Then there are the human beings who allow Satan (whose name is Iblis) to mislead them, and there are the human beings who disobey him, and thereby earn the satisfaction of God.

Thanks for your answer. I can always appreciate how people of various spiritual/ religious systems might view and understand the Adversary, whether they are Muslim or Christian or Pagan, etc.

Personally I share your view that everything that happened in Eden was meant to happen as part of God's plan, and that Iblis/ Satan/ Shaaitan is fulfilling his mission from God. Without the temptation to fall and go against the Will of God/ Allah/ YHWH, there would little reason for reward. I believe the Abrahamic God created the Opposer-the Adversary- with a profound destiny in mind, perhaps among the greatest and most tragic yet beautiful destinies of all His creations.

​

 

[September]

I speak from th traditional knowledge in Islam and th knowledge of the saints of Islam.

Joseph (Yusuf in Arabic), peace on him was a prophet, the son of Jacob, the grandson of Isaac and the great grandson of Abraham, the friend of God. They were all prophets of God.

When Joseph was a boy, his brothers asked Jacob to send him with them to play and enjoy himself, as the Qur'an says:

"Send him with us tomorrow to enjoy himself and play, and we shall take every care of him" (Chapter of the Qur'an called Joseph)

"To enjoy himself and to play" means Joseph was trusting. He was not quick to call people liars. Yet, when the brothers took him with them, they threw him in the bottom of the well and left him there.

As an adult, he was accused of having tried to seduce the wife of his king, though he said "God forbid! your husband is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable." This is the importance of trust.

He was imprisoned. When his innocence was proved, the king, impressed by Joseph, asked that Joseph be brought to his select presence. Joseph sent back the emissary to the king asking that first, the king should enquire about the state of mind of the ladies who were passioned of him. The Qur'an says:

"(The king) said (to the ladies): "What was your affair when ye did seek to seduce Joseph from his (true) self?" The ladies said: "(Allah, God) preserve us! no evil know we against him!" Said the 'Aziz's wife: "Now is the truth manifest (to all): it was I who sought to seduce him from his (true) self: he is indeed of those who are (ever) true (and virtuous)."

Joseph then says, as the Qur'an says:

"This I say in order that he may know that I have never been false to him in his absence, and that Allah will never guide the snare of the false ones."

This is the importance of trust. One must be trustworthy and one must be trusting. By trusting, I mean that one must not be quick to consider people liars.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But this must be done with the help of God. Without it, there is no chance, Satan will get the upper hand.

I wrote a piece on sura 12, Joseph.
Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in sura 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran sura 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire sura is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does sura 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at sura 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and sura 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.

None of that has anything to do with the Devil in Islam...

But regardless...

Is it "plagiarism" to absorb the strengths of a religion and integrate them into your own spiritual/ religious system? Is it "plagiarism" to build a new religion devoted to the Abrahamic God, by absorbing writings, scripture, rituals and culture that you agree with from any existing religions, and then merging it into something of your own?

Do you really think that the Bible never absorbed anything from an older, more ancient religion? Or "plagiarized", as you say? To what extend did ancient Mesopotamia influence writings within the Bible?

​

 

[Dajjal]

Goddess, I did not mean to take the thread off topic, I was just answering a post by Muslim75.

As far as I am concerned the bible is full of flaws and doubtlessly has material taken from earlier sources.
That does not bother me because I am neither a Jew or a Christian. But Muslims claim the Quran is the absolute word of God dictated to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel, and I say it is not. I say it is all made up by Muhammad who stole from the bible to create his own religion mainly in order to scare people into following him. Unfortunately there are a billion and a half people in the world still slavishly following these lies about God.

 

[Mindlight]

Christianity says people are saved by their choice of being Christians. That's very childish. Men hav responsibilities. Also, choosing is an action, not of the limbs but of the heart; so just as you know you your bodily actions can never reach the Purity of God, so also your personal choices can never reach the Purity of God.

Christians are not saved because we choose to be saved but rather because God has made it possible by His grace. Our choice is to receive a free gift or not. So no Christians do not believe that actions earn salvation or even the purity of our hearts. Having been saved we rather see changes occur in our actions and in our thoughts and motivations that reflect our new condition before God. We respond in thankfulness not in fear to a God who has paved the way. In the same way Satans authority over our lives is already overthrown and it is simply a question of working through the meaning of that. Of course we face all sorts of tests and extreme choices but we do so as people who already know that the victory is won. I am not sure on what basis a Muslim can base his confidence that Satan can be defeated.

You are insisting on not considering the Christian salvation doctrine as what it is and stipulates. The Grace of God on you is His mere creating you, because since He created you, He loves you. Since He created you, you are perfect, because the perfect God does not create anything imperfect. Were you to be saved on the basis of your belief that Jesus was God, you would not wait until the time of your death to meet with God and reunite with Him, which is exactly what Christianity stipulates.

You have enough to worry about, than to worry about how Islam allows one to escape the clutches of Satan, the enemy of man, and to re-unite with God, the Beloved.

This is not what Christianity stipulates. God created a good and perfect creation but it is fallen and we are all in need of redemption. We are justified by faith in a God of grace and we have the Holy Spirit with us now and therefore do not have to wait till death to meet God.

Lacking this understanding of our inherently fallen nature , of the need for redemption and of the inadequacy of our efforts to be reconciled to God I cannot see how Islam offers any hope. How can you defeat Satan when you do not understand the nature of his authority as accuser and the power he has over you due to your sin. How can you defeat an enemy that is stronger than you without calling on a God who is stronger still and whose grace redeems us and who has already disarmed the devil , removed his authority etc conditional only on you accepting the new covenant that he offers through Christ.

In short you do not know your enemy , nor God nor even yourselves. There is no victory to be won in such circumstances and the bitterness and anger of perpetual defeat poisons the Muslim world.

 

[Hollie]

7 variants of the Qur'an, yet somehow all were true. Which is why the caliph felt the need to destroy six of them.

Nope........ the other 6 either weren't complete or contained textual defects.

In the first decades of Islamic expansion. Some of the Quran's in far flung territories contained flaws or misquotes.

Uthman who was a close personal friend of Muhammad had been personally taught the Quran and memorized the entire book.

After the death of Muhammad he was the 3rd person chosen to lead the muslims. Uthman then sent people throughout the muslim lands with perfect copies of the Quran, and any copies found which deviated from Uthman's Quran were destroyed.

That was a truly uninspired bit of goofy convert'esqe islamo-speak.

Your lack of knowledge regarding your koranology is truly remarkable.

 

[MaxGrit]

I speak from th traditional knowledge in Islam and th knowledge of the saints of Islam.

Joseph (Yusuf in Arabic), peace on him was a prophet, the son of Jacob, the grandson of Isaac and the great grandson of Abraham, the friend of God. They were all prophets of God.

When Joseph was a boy, his brothers asked Jacob to send him with them to play and enjoy himself, as the Qur'an says:

"Send him with us tomorrow to enjoy himself and play, and we shall take every care of him" (Chapter of the Qur'an called Joseph)

"To enjoy himself and to play" means Joseph was trusting. He was not quick to call people liars. Yet, when the brothers took him with them, they threw him in the bottom of the well and left him there.

As an adult, he was accused of having tried to seduce the wife of his king, though he said "God forbid! your husband is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable." This is the importance of trust.

He was imprisoned. When his innocence was proved, the king, impressed by Joseph, asked that Joseph be brought to his select presence. Joseph sent back the emissary to the king asking that first, the king should enquire about the state of mind of the ladies who were passioned of him. The Qur'an says:

"(The king) said (to the ladies): "What was your affair when ye did seek to seduce Joseph from his (true) self?" The ladies said: "(Allah, God) preserve us! no evil know we against him!" Said the 'Aziz's wife: "Now is the truth manifest (to all): it was I who sought to seduce him from his (true) self: he is indeed of those who are (ever) true (and virtuous)."

Joseph then says, as the Qur'an says:

"This I say in order that he may know that I have never been false to him in his absence, and that Allah will never guide the snare of the false ones."

This is the importance of trust. One must be trustworthy and one must be trusting. By trusting, I mean that one must not be quick to consider people liars.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But this must be done with the help of God. Without it, there is no chance, Satan will get the upper hand.

I wrote a piece on sura 12, Joseph.
Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in sura 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran sura 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire sura is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does sura 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at sura 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and sura 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.

None of that has anything to do with the Devil in Islam...

But regardless...

Is it "plagiarism" to absorb the strengths of a religion and integrate them into your own spiritual/ religious system? Is it "plagiarism" to build a new religion devoted to the Abrahamic God, by absorbing writings, scripture, rituals and culture that you agree with from any existing religions, and then merging it into something of your own?

Do you really think that the Bible never absorbed anything from an older, more ancient religion? Or "plagiarized", as you say? To what extend did ancient Mesopotamia influence writings within the Bible?

​

Given that God reveals Himself to man in the Bible, I wouldn't want anything from other sources.

 

[September]

I speak from th traditional knowledge in Islam and th knowledge of the saints of Islam.

Joseph (Yusuf in Arabic), peace on him was a prophet, the son of Jacob, the grandson of Isaac and the great grandson of Abraham, the friend of God. They were all prophets of God.

When Joseph was a boy, his brothers asked Jacob to send him with them to play and enjoy himself, as the Qur'an says:

"Send him with us tomorrow to enjoy himself and play, and we shall take every care of him" (Chapter of the Qur'an called Joseph)

"To enjoy himself and to play" means Joseph was trusting. He was not quick to call people liars. Yet, when the brothers took him with them, they threw him in the bottom of the well and left him there.

As an adult, he was accused of having tried to seduce the wife of his king, though he said "God forbid! your husband is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable." This is the importance of trust.

He was imprisoned. When his innocence was proved, the king, impressed by Joseph, asked that Joseph be brought to his select presence. Joseph sent back the emissary to the king asking that first, the king should enquire about the state of mind of the ladies who were passioned of him. The Qur'an says:

"(The king) said (to the ladies): "What was your affair when ye did seek to seduce Joseph from his (true) self?" The ladies said: "(Allah, God) preserve us! no evil know we against him!" Said the 'Aziz's wife: "Now is the truth manifest (to all): it was I who sought to seduce him from his (true) self: he is indeed of those who are (ever) true (and virtuous)."

Joseph then says, as the Qur'an says:

"This I say in order that he may know that I have never been false to him in his absence, and that Allah will never guide the snare of the false ones."

This is the importance of trust. One must be trustworthy and one must be trusting. By trusting, I mean that one must not be quick to consider people liars.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But this must be done with the help of God. Without it, there is no chance, Satan will get the upper hand.

I wrote a piece on sura 12, Joseph.
Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in sura 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran sura 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire sura is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does sura 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at sura 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and sura 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.

None of that has anything to do with the Devil in Islam...

But regardless...

Is it "plagiarism" to absorb the strengths of a religion and integrate them into your own spiritual/ religious system? Is it "plagiarism" to build a new religion devoted to the Abrahamic God, by absorbing writings, scripture, rituals and culture that you agree with from any existing religions, and then merging it into something of your own?

Do you really think that the Bible never absorbed anything from an older, more ancient religion? Or "plagiarized", as you say? To what extend did ancient Mesopotamia influence writings within the Bible?

​

Given that God reveals Himself to man in the Bible, I wouldn't want anything from other sources.

So you really think that the Bible never absorbed anything from an older, more ancient religion? You really think that ancient Mesopotamian religious culture did not influence any writings within the Bible?

​

 

[MaxGrit]

I speak from th traditional knowledge in Islam and th knowledge of the saints of Islam.

Joseph (Yusuf in Arabic), peace on him was a prophet, the son of Jacob, the grandson of Isaac and the great grandson of Abraham, the friend of God. They were all prophets of God.

When Joseph was a boy, his brothers asked Jacob to send him with them to play and enjoy himself, as the Qur'an says:

"Send him with us tomorrow to enjoy himself and play, and we shall take every care of him" (Chapter of the Qur'an called Joseph)

"To enjoy himself and to play" means Joseph was trusting. He was not quick to call people liars. Yet, when the brothers took him with them, they threw him in the bottom of the well and left him there.

As an adult, he was accused of having tried to seduce the wife of his king, though he said "God forbid! your husband is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable." This is the importance of trust.

He was imprisoned. When his innocence was proved, the king, impressed by Joseph, asked that Joseph be brought to his select presence. Joseph sent back the emissary to the king asking that first, the king should enquire about the state of mind of the ladies who were passioned of him. The Qur'an says:

"(The king) said (to the ladies): "What was your affair when ye did seek to seduce Joseph from his (true) self?" The ladies said: "(Allah, God) preserve us! no evil know we against him!" Said the 'Aziz's wife: "Now is the truth manifest (to all): it was I who sought to seduce him from his (true) self: he is indeed of those who are (ever) true (and virtuous)."

Joseph then says, as the Qur'an says:

"This I say in order that he may know that I have never been false to him in his absence, and that Allah will never guide the snare of the false ones."

This is the importance of trust. One must be trustworthy and one must be trusting. By trusting, I mean that one must not be quick to consider people liars.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But this must be done with the help of God. Without it, there is no chance, Satan will get the upper hand.

I wrote a piece on sura 12, Joseph.
Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in sura 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran sura 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire sura is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does sura 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at sura 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and sura 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.

None of that has anything to do with the Devil in Islam...

But regardless...

Is it "plagiarism" to absorb the strengths of a religion and integrate them into your own spiritual/ religious system? Is it "plagiarism" to build a new religion devoted to the Abrahamic God, by absorbing writings, scripture, rituals and culture that you agree with from any existing religions, and then merging it into something of your own?

Do you really think that the Bible never absorbed anything from an older, more ancient religion? Or "plagiarized", as you say? To what extend did ancient Mesopotamia influence writings within the Bible?

​

Given that God reveals Himself to man in the Bible, I wouldn't want anything from other sources.

So you really think that the Bible never absorbed anything from an older, more ancient religion? You really think that ancient Mesopotamian religious culture did not influence any writings within the Bible?

​

The Bible is inspired by God. Therefore, it is sufficient. In fact, it is perfectly suited for me. Therefore, I do not need anything else.

Why would anyone trade their finest clothes so they can wear sackcloths?

 

[Muslim75]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam and the knowledge of the saints in Islam.

If you wish to observe a devil, a Satan, observe a black dog. Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) once said that a black dog was a Satan. I do not encourage to have dogs because Islam prohibits to have a dog in one's home. I don't mean to insult you people; however, if you own a black dog, observe it when a disaster happens to you, when you are sad or depressed. Observe it also, look at what he does when you are struggling with your conscience, trying to resist evil. Observe it at those occasions. It is a devil.

Again, Islam prohibits the owning of dogs in the homes.


Muadh Ibn Jabal

May God be well pleased with him. He is one of the Companions of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). All the Companions are holy and heavenly ones as Islam teaches.

There is one instance where Muadh is described as a young man with white teeth. This (white teeth) means he was always smiling. This is a supreme good deed in Islam. One is asked to be smiling and cheerful, friendly and amicable with people. On a very famous report, Muhammad told Muadh he loved him.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But again the fight against Satan must be done using the help of God. Without it, there is no chance to defeat Satan and reach God Almighty.

 

[Muslim75]

As I mentioned in my previous post, a black dog is a devil. We know that from Muhammad himself (peace be upon him and his family).

Talking from the Islamic perspective, look here to the ones who rejoice when disasters befall mankind. Look here to the ones who strive hard so that people do evil and not good. Look here to the ones who have undescribable enmity towards mankind. Beware, take lesson.

black dogs - Recherche Google

black dogs - Recherche Google

 

[Hollie]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam and the knowledge of the saints in Islam.

If you wish to observe a devil, a Satan, observe a black dog. Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) once said that a black dog was a Satan. I do not encourage to have dogs because Islam prohibits to have a dog in one's home. I don't mean to insult you people; however, if you own a black dog, observe it when a disaster happens to you, when you are sad or depressed. Observe it also, look at what he does when you are struggling with your conscience, trying to resist evil. Observe it at those occasions. It is a devil.

Again, Islam prohibits the owning of dogs in the homes.


Muadh Ibn Jabal

May God be well pleased with him. He is one of the Companions of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). All the Companions are holy and heavenly ones as Islam teaches.

There is one instance where Muadh is described as a young man with white teeth. This (white teeth) means he was always smiling. This is a supreme good deed in Islam. One is asked to be smiling and cheerful, friendly and amicable with people. On a very famous report, Muhammad told Muadh he loved him.

This is an example of how Satan is fought. But again the fight against Satan must be done using the help of God. Without it, there is no chance to defeat Satan and reach God Almighty.

I speak from the true knowledge of Islamism and the knowledge that islam's inventor was a superstitious throwback.

Muhammud (swish) has a fear and loathing of black dogs because he held child-like superstitions.

 

[Hollie]

As I mentioned in my previous post, a black dog is a devil. We know that from Muhammad himself (peace be upon him and his family).

Talking from the Islamic perspective, look here to the ones who rejoice when disasters befall mankind. Look here to the ones who strive hard so that people do evil and not good. Look here to the ones who have undescribable enmity towards mankind. Beware, take lesson.

black dogs - Recherche Google

black dogs - Recherche Google

A black dog is the devil?

What a shame that your cult indoctrination is so complete, you're unable to make grownup decisions that aren't in concert with the fears and superstitions of an ignorant Arab warlord.

 

[Muslim75]

As I mentioned in my previous post, a black dog is a devil. We know that from Muhammad himself (peace be upon him and his family).

Talking from the Islamic perspective, look here to the ones who rejoice when disasters befall mankind. Look here to the ones who strive hard so that people do evil and not good. Look here to the ones who have undescribable enmity towards mankind. Beware, take lesson.

black dogs - Recherche Google

black dogs - Recherche Google

Let me precise that you are not to brutalize back dogs. Treat well any being that lives. Don't harm animals, don't harm black dogs. Do no harm to any being that lives. This is what Islam teaches. Religions only teach this.

 

[Hollie]

As I mentioned in my previous post, a black dog is a devil. We know that from Muhammad himself (peace be upon him and his family).

Talking from the Islamic perspective, look here to the ones who rejoice when disasters befall mankind. Look here to the ones who strive hard so that people do evil and not good. Look here to the ones who have undescribable enmity towards mankind. Beware, take lesson.

black dogs - Recherche Google

black dogs - Recherche Google

Let me precise that you are not to brutalize back dogs. Treat well any being that lives. Don't harm animals, don't harm black dogs. Do no harm to any being that lives. This is what Islam teaches. Religions only teach this.

Just remember that because Mo' (swish) was a superstitious hack, it's incumbent upon moslems to maintain those Dark Ages superstitions.

You islamo-nutbars are like little islamo-robots. You're just mindless islamo-drones who forever worship a 7th century snake oil salesman.

 

[Muslim75]

Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib (peace on him) was a cousin of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). As the Muslims were persecuted, Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) allowed some of them to migrate to Abyssinia, today's Ethiopia in East Africa. There was there a Christian kingdom ruled by the Negus. Complaints reach the Negus that these were followers of Muhammad, and Muhammad was supposedly one who caused dissension amidst Arabia. So the Negus asked the Muslims about it. Ja'far replied to him.

Ja'far first praised Muhammad and then recited to the Negus the Chapter of the Qur'an called Mary (Chapter 19) since the Negus was a Christian king. Chapter Mary starts with "K.H.Y.A.S" (in Arabic, Kaf Ha Ya Ayn Sad). It goes on, "this is a recital of the mercy of your Lord to His servant Zakariyya". Ja'far kept reciting until he recited the part about the miraculous birth of Jesus. As he was reciting, the Negus cried and kept crying until his beard became wet with his tears. He then remarked that this was the absolute truth about Jesus.

This link is for the Negus.
Ashama ibn-Abjar - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Let me go back to Ja'far, peace on him, the cousin of the prophet (peace be upon him and his family). In battle, at Mu'ta (if my memory does not fail me) Ja'far, at one point was the leader of the Muslims. The Muslims were heavily outnumbered (this was a standard in the wars of Islam). Ja'fat cut off the lower parts of his horse's legs, so that the horse might not run away. He then advanced with a sword on his right hand and the flag on the left hand. When his right arm was cut off, he took the flag with his left hand and moved forward. Then his left arm was cut off. He put the flag in his mouth and moved forward until he was killed.

Later, the Muslims miraculously achieved victory at that battle. Not all Muslims were sent forth in this battle. Muhammad, who did not take part in this battle informed the Muslims that Allah Almighty (God Almighty) gave Ja'far two wings in exchange of his two arms, thanks to which he goes wheresoever he wants in Jannah (heaven).

This is an example of how Satan is fought, steadfastness in hardship, firm resolve, not to give up because of hardship. Of course, this kind of fighting Satan is of the past, today there is no war to be made in the name of Islam. That is absolutely forbidden. That would be obeying Satan, not fighting him.

 

[Hollie]

Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib (peace on him) was a cousin of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). As the Muslims were persecuted, Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) allowed some of them to migrate to Abyssinia, today's Ethiopia in East Africa. There was there a Christian kingdom ruled by the Negus. Complaints reach the Negus that these were followers of Muhammad, and Muhammad was supposedly one who caused dissension amidst Arabia. So the Negus asked the Muslims about it. Ja'far replied to him.

Ja'far first praised Muhammad and then recited to the Negus the Chapter of the Qur'an called Mary (Chapter 19) since the Negus was a Christian king. Chapter Mary starts with "K.H.Y.A.S" (in Arabic, Kaf Ha Ya Ayn Sad). It goes on, "this is a recital of the mercy of your Lord to His servant Zakariyya". Ja'far kept reciting until he recited the part about the miraculous birth of Jesus. As he was reciting, the Negus cried and kept crying until his beard became wet with his tears. He then remarked that this was the absolute truth about Jesus.

This link is for the Negus.
Ashama ibn-Abjar - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Let me go back to Ja'far, peace on him, the cousin of the prophet (peace be upon him and his family). In battle, at Mu'ta (if my memory does not fail me) Ja'far, at one point was the leader of the Muslims. The Muslims were heavily outnumbered (this was a standard in the wars of Islam). Ja'fat cut off the lower parts of his horse's legs, so that the horse might not run away. He then advanced with a sword on his right hand and the flag on the left hand. When his right arm was cut off, he took the flag with his left hand and moved forward. Then his left arm was cut off. He put the flag in his mouth and moved forward until he was killed.

Later, the Muslims miraculously achieved victory at that battle. Not all Muslims were sent forth in this battle. Muhammad, who did not take part in this battle informed the Muslims that Allah Almighty (God Almighty) gave Ja'far two wings in exchange of his two arms, thanks to which he goes wheresoever he wants in Jannah (heaven).

This is an example of how Satan is fought, steadfastness in hardship, firm resolve, not to give up because of hardship. Of course, this kind of fighting Satan is of the past, today there is no war to be made in the name of Islam. That is absolutely forbidden. That would be obeying Satan, not fighting him.

Haven't you picked up on gawds cosmic joke? Muhammud (swish) is Satan.

Gawd said: "Dats a good vun."